TheCongressman1
Member
Pretty much. Especially that little of an increase.
Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto
- Thread starter AceBandage
- Start date
Pretty much. Especially that little of an increase.
Considering that they're listening to the needs of third parties this generation, I believe Nintendo standards have to be bent a little to accommodate to all these needs. I can see them going 2GB if it was requested a lot, but I doubt that's the case.
I think 1.5GB is optimistic, but I could see it happening. Nintendo won't spend the money for 2GB. They're looking much more to PS360 than next-gen when it comes to specs, and those systems got by (with bottlenecks) with 512.
They'll cheap out.
Regardless of the technical specs, of which we pretty much know the ballpark of what to expect, I'm thinking what might really hurt WiiU the most is the lack of a built in hard drive.
With all sorts of developers saying how much the used game business is hurting them and rumors that 720 and PS4 will begin heavily moving in favor of downloadable full version retail titles a lack of substantial hard drive space on the WiiU could cost it a great many releases when next gen fully kicks off.
I mean if a company wants to make a download only game that's like 30 gigs or over, and games will be that big and much bigger, how can they rely on a WiiU version selling if they can't even rely on a WiiU owner having the necessary hard drive space?
With all sorts of developers saying how much the used game business is hurting them and rumors that 720 and PS4 will begin heavily moving in favor of downloadable full version retail titles a lack of substantial hard drive space on the WiiU could cost it a great many releases when next gen fully kicks off.
I mean if a company wants to make a download only game that's like 30 gigs or over, and games will be that big and much bigger, how can they rely on a WiiU version selling if they can't even rely on a WiiU owner having the necessary hard drive space?
Uh...did you read the part about the system having USB external harddrive support?
A lot of people never took their Wii online. How can a developer be sure that a sizeable enough portion of the Wii U userbase will have large external HDDs attached?
No I read it. That's why I said developers can't "rely" on WiiU owners having hard drive space, not WiiU owners won't have hard drive space at all.
I agree. I'm expecting 1.5GB too.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
Nor can they "rely" on SATA/SATA2/eSATA HDD speeds and throughput...
Actually they pretty much can. Nintendo pretty much just needs to treat harddrives like memory cards: An optional but required accessory.
As long as there are minimum base requirements. I'm starting to think the flash memory serves to help transfer speeds by using it as a buffer. In any case, how Ext HDD works with WiiU is still a mystery until they unveil more.
You are assuming the regular WiiU owner will be a regular Wii owner and won't know about technical things like HDDs. Even with the Wii/3DS they've been telling people about SD Cards and their capacity.
Wasn't it already said by Nintendo that they won't be providing 1st party hard drives? I was pretty sure they said they won't be making them and users will have to find their own.
Which is fine and all I guess... although if you want to look at them like memory cards I always bought 1st party playstation ones for my systems. This would be kinda like Mad Catz third party products being the only ones available but there's a whooooooooole bunch of different versions... I don't like that idea too much.
But either way you're still talking about a few problems. Namely every user won't have hard drive space, the hard drives they have may vary a whole bunch on speeds etc. since we can all pick our own, and they don't know the size of the hard drives people have and with games being 30 gig+ realistically we're all gonna need like 500 gig drives to be comfortable. That's not a small extra investment on a WiiU owners end, probably around $100 for anywhere between 500 gigs and ~1.5 terabytes. People scoffed at the Vita memory card prices, and they're mandatory. This is essentially the same thing and possibly even a little more expensive.
I just see a lot of problems that can arise when it comes to a digital next gen and a WiiU without significant storage space that's uniform in specs across all users.
30gig or more download only games seems insane. I imagine a large part of the world will waste their caps on one game.
Also, Nintendo will have flash memory for small installs and low capacity users and their DVD drives may very wel have a much faster throughput than what's in the PS3 or 360 (just assuming here as I haven't looked into it)
All in all it seems unlikely to me that we will have download only games of that size.
Also, Nintendo will have flash memory for small installs and low capacity users and their DVD drives may very wel have a much faster throughput than what's in the PS3 or 360 (just assuming here as I haven't looked into it)
All in all it seems unlikely to me that we will have download only games of that size.
$80 for 500GB USB/HDD is not the same as 32GB for $100; which is what pissed off people about the Vita. Not that it costs $100, but it costs $100 for 32GB and can only be used on a Vita (on top of not having nay internal memory). Yeah, different formats; but people in general would be more satisfied buying a $100-500+GB USB that they can use on many other things, than a specific-memory storage that can only be used on one device and has less storage..for the same price.
Same way people laughed at the 20GB HDDs fof the 360 costing $150 (320GB-HDDs now cost $130 and include a game). Same way many are pissed off, every year because the iPad 32/64GB; which can't be upgraded.
At least on the Wii U it's optional and user friendly; how it is used we have yet to see. We don't even know how much internal memory the units will have...2GB? 4GB?
But I agree that not having an HDD will be a problem to some developers. But I guess optimization for each platform will be key on this. Like the multi-platform games that had mandatory installs on PS3, just to put loading times close to the 360-version that had no installs. Then there were PS3 games like Final Fantasy XIII that had no installs. But like everything, guess it will vary by developer.
And Nintendo always has at least fast RAM. So, this shouldn't be an issue.
Well games will definitely exceed the 30 gig mark. There's a bunch of games at 20 gigs now, a couple over that.
So let's say a company is wanting to release a multiplatform game with digital sales as the main focus and a limited retail print to supplement those who can't connect online.
If the rumors turn out true then 720 and PS4 have first party hard drives so the specs are uniform and online networks built around direct digital distribution of full scale retail titles. And then there's WiiU.
So as a developer would they want to port and release that kind of game on WiiU at all in that situation?
Depends alot on other hardware components. You might get increased adoption of megatextures (and big game sizes) if disc transfer speed is good enough. And more space being consumed with more detailed textures/environments/models if the GPU/RAM are good enough.
I would think at a lot of gamers with high speed internet connections and a tendency to dowload lots of stuff, would in many cases be people that have some sort of (old) USB HDD lying around. I for one have the habit of recovering all laptop HDD's from people i know when they throw their old ones away, and put them in 5 dollar enclosures. 120 GB could go a long way for WiiU.
Then they'll just put it in the online store. Not every 360 owner has over 100+GB HDDs and yet, digital games and size-limits has been raised in order to accommodate those that do have enough space.
Right now, there aren't many console games that are that size (even some of those like Final Fantasy XIII are over 30GB.. just because of the movies... which sequel has less movies); heck just been on a DVD or Bluray, never meant that all GBs are used.
Many Wii games were under 500MB including first-party releases. Heck, many 3DS games are not 1GB; when there are carts up to 4GB.
That there will be bigger games, yeah. But their availability on the Wii U-online store will depend on which limits Nintendo puts, rather than developers not wanting to.
That too.
Many of those willing to download 30GB games, will have high-speed connections and will make sure to have USB/HDDs to download said stuff. Many might be just happy with a 32GB SD Card.
care to elaborate?
Random examples...
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: 350MB
Animal Crossing: City Folk: 320MB
Wii Play: 90MB
Wii Sports: 310MB
Super Paper Mario: 420MB
Wow :O
really?
NSMBW only 350MB? I read everywhere it was near 900MB
talking about quick cash... =/
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Because the file size of a game determines both its quality and the effort that was put into it.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Software size =/= Budget size
Mario Galaxy is like 1.* GB, is that quick cash too?
I'm not surprised about this one since it is basically a enhanced NES game tho.
actually, if you think about it, it's quite a lot fot what it does.
Hobbestetrician
Member
My brother and I 100%'d NSMBW in co-op and only did about 3 levels in DKCR before we gave up and just traded off instead. It takes coordination and communication to do Mario co-op but it was really rewarding and probably the only way I could have gotten several Star Coins. Gotta take advantage of the bubble mechanic. More than 2 players and I will agree with you, except for the Coin Battle levels, those were crazy fun with 4 players. DKCR levels had more of a rhythm and timing to them that was much harder to coordinate with two players.
Quick cash? That has no relation to size.
There are Xbox 360 games that don't fill the DVDs and PS3 games that don't fill the Bluray; many of them. Final Fantasy XIII, the game per se was like 7GB; but the movies bloated the size to 37+GB.
In cases like Oblivion (and I guess a few PS3 games too); they used the "big size" of the discs to put the same textures/stuff multiple times, to reduce loading/disc-read access.
So, there are games that are not "big in size" because of content, but big because they repeat data across it.
This whole thing about the storage space has me thinking about a lot of stuff like for example we can figure now that the console is going to be ~$400 and you'll pretty much need to spend ~$100 on a hard drive.
Then there's the inevitable "GAF! Recommend me a hard drive for my WiiU!" topic that will pop up.
And then if we're all using our own hard drive doesn't that kinda open up the door for hackers?
And of course again how will this all effect developers as far as varying sizes and speeds of hard drives on top of not every WiiU user having one?
We've got a decent enough ball park idea of the power of the system. We don't have specific specs but we know what to expect. But this storage situation hasn't been discussed enough. I'd love if someone in the know could shed some light on the subject because this is a pretty vital. Even more so because it seems as if the upcoming gen is where the real shift to digital begins.
Then there's the inevitable "GAF! Recommend me a hard drive for my WiiU!" topic that will pop up.
And then if we're all using our own hard drive doesn't that kinda open up the door for hackers?
And of course again how will this all effect developers as far as varying sizes and speeds of hard drives on top of not every WiiU user having one?
We've got a decent enough ball park idea of the power of the system. We don't have specific specs but we know what to expect. But this storage situation hasn't been discussed enough. I'd love if someone in the know could shed some light on the subject because this is a pretty vital. Even more so because it seems as if the upcoming gen is where the real shift to digital begins.
It will be either:
-Like the 360: You format the USB to a specific format on the unit, you also choose the size of the partition before use. You also get a notice saying that quality of the USB may affect performance (in most cases loadings times will be a few seconds longer).
-Or like the 3DS: The HDD won't need to be formatted, but stuff will be saved on their specific format and each download having the hardware information encrypted on it; so that it can only be used on that hardware unless you manually chose to change it/transfer things.
-Like the 360: You format the USB to a specific format on the unit, you also choose the size of the partition before use. You also get a notice saying that quality of the USB may affect performance (in most cases loadings times will be a few seconds longer).
-Or like the 3DS: The HDD won't need to be formatted, but stuff will be saved on their specific format and each download having the hardware information encrypted on it; so that it can only be used on that hardware unless you manually chose to change it/transfer things.
I wonder if they'd ever just pack a cheapo USB flash drive or SD card in with games that desperately needed the space. Eh, probably not, but who knows?
Also, wasn't Acer rumored to be working with Nintendo on a cloud storage solution? FAKE EDIT: Google seems to think so.
Also, wasn't Acer rumored to be working with Nintendo on a cloud storage solution? FAKE EDIT: Google seems to think so.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ok, let me delve some in the recent 'what developers want from next-gen' talk that's been popular lately, but from an entirely Western perspective.
1. Middleware providers want PC-like consoles in terms of features and power. Which is natural, as the product of those developers is 'new tech' which, let's not fool ourselves, is made possible not so much by sw breakthroughs as by hw advancements. In this regard, those parties don't really care about the consumer market - their income does not come (primarily) from that. They are a major force behind the 'AAA..A' push we're seeing today (the other proponents being mega-publishers who want their grounds clear from 'weeds'). Unsurprisingly quite a few independent game studios bit the 'HD experience' bate at the start of this cycle - who'd want to be left behind if everybody left and right was rushing to Klondyke? I find the case of Denis Dyack/SK particularly telling: at the start of the gen he was an evangelist of 'hollywood-style AAA+ productions made possible by huge teams using advanced middleware running on HD powerhouses' (paraphrasing his various statements from that period). Fast-forward a couple of years when he was already suing Epic for underdelivering on middleware promises and contractual obligations. And we know how Too Human went - SK are grasping for their breath ATM. For this group of middleware developers, nintedo's philosophy is detrimental - they'll always pay lip service to it, but that's not what they really want the market to be heading, and they never will.
2. Regular game companies who care about their consumer base, and for whom 'advancements' in the revenue stream from the end consumer are where the gist is. Those guys ideally want huge install bases and subscription-based revenue. For them the hardware prowess is secondary - they could be happy on an ipad if it was not for Apple dictating the rules. Such players would be perfectly fine with nintendo, with the implied remark nintendo does not screw up with the online. Which takes us to..
3. Blizzard and Valve. Those guys are the self-made success stories of the Western game industry - one of them with the 'next-gen' subscription-based revenue, the other - with the own DD service, both with huge install bases, both playing by their own rules, building their own kingdoms. Of course, not without their own cloudy weathers. Their interest in nintendo's offerings is entirely dictated by what the weather forecast in their own kingdom says. In this regard, IF they decided to do business with nintendo, they'd be more aligned with (2) than with (1) above - a viable online system is way more important to them, than the spit'n'shine the hw offers.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
80-90% of Wii Sports is probably sound.
DefectiveReject
Banned
I think its safe to say Nintendo are saving it all for E3 regardless of what Shiny Chin man says
Isn't Dragon Quest X comming with a USB stick? Just for the file transfare to WiiU, though.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Yes, but then they will probably still hold off on all projects not planned for release before E3-2013.
I'd say we learn about 6 Nintendo games, max.
:/
Smiles and Cries
Member
are we there yet?
that NDA?
that NDA?
The CPU does some setup prior to the GPU rendering the scene yes. But those kind of work loads would only be doubled in a situation were the system was rendering two entirely different scenes. I can't think of many instances were that kind of thing would occur and to be honest I don't think it will in a multi-platform title unless the system can handle it.
Also remember that the rumour you're referring to says that the CPU is the same in some ways but superior in others and that there's also a DSP there which can take anywhere from 16-33% of the load away from the CPU in comparison to Xenos. There's also a ARM CPU in there to take more load away from the main CPU.
Speaking of that, bgassassin do you have a link for the WiiU I/O controller patent you mentioned?
A DSP is a dedicated piece of hardware, in this case specifically designed to process audio for the system. The ARM CPU is a general purpose, probably the I/O controller bgassassin is referring to.
This would be very similar to Wii. The ARM9 processor (starlet) handled I/O and security and there was also a DSP for audio.
It would be used for similar things as the ARM9 in Wii, I/O, security, maybe even more this time considering what bgassassin said earlier regarding how much it helps the main CPU.