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[Anth0ny]

off-topic somewhat:

Here's Super Mario Sunshine on GameCube at Space World 2001 running @ 60fps (the final game was 30fps)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Z9MzMg9vM

Again, here it is at E3 2002, still running at 60fps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJfetPE1MDs

Imagine what EAD Tokyo could do with Wii U in an open-world Mario game, instead of the smaller levels in Galaxy 1/2

It looks weird running at 60fps.

Good weird.

 

[Pyrokai]

My serious question:

Do you think it's a misconception that studios will suffer even more financially next-gen compared to this gen if consoles are truly the "great leap" in tech so many people want? Or do you think it won't be any better or worse than the current gen?

Also, why are so many studios, like Epic, so keen with graphics being pushed so hard if it indeed will cost astronomical amounts of money even compared to NOW? I don't understand it...

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

My serious question:

Do you think it's a misconception that studios will suffer even more financially next-gen compared to this gen if consoles are truly the "great leap" in tech so many people want? Or do you think it won't be any better or worse than the current gen?

Also, why are so many studios, like Epic, so keen with graphics being pushed so hard if it indeed will cost astronomical amounts of money even compared to NOW? I don't understand it...

it benefits big studios with games that sell a lot, but sucks for the little guys. And the little guys are the bomb.

 

[HylianTom]

Well we've compared consoles in terms of DBZ characters, might as well do the same in cooking devices.

So the PS4 will obviously be another grilling machine, Nextbox is a microwave. The way people talk about Nintendo devices, it could only be a Chad Valley electronic foldaway play kitchen.

In terms of video game characters, one console maker is one of those bosses that you can't beat with your own power. Instead, you need to trick it into hurting itself repeatedly.

Another one is a bit like Bowser.. you think you see them falling toward a firey-lava doooomed over and over again, and they still show-up again for the next level.

And as far as kitchen appliances go, Nintendo might be one of those pocket sandwich makers. Delicious.

I'll play the role of the historian again: this whole discussion reminded me of Jack Tretton's comments a few years ago:

"I think the PS3 is the Surf 'n Turf, the PS2 is your favorite burger restaurant... [Wii] is a lollipop, and I'm too old for lollipops. And the [Xbox 360] I get sick from once in a while because the cook isn't always reliable."

 

[Luigiv]

off-topic somewhat:

Here's Super Mario Sunshine on GameCube at Space World 2001 running @ 60fps (the final game was 30fps)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Z9MzMg9vM

Again, here it is at E3 2002, still running at 60fps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJfetPE1MDs

Imagine what EAD Tokyo could do with Wii U in an open-world Mario game, instead of the smaller levels in Galaxy 1/2

Here's Super Mario Sunshine running @ 60fps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Z9MzMg9vM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJfetPE1MDs

Here running @ 60fps

youtube

Yeah... I don't believe that I have to explain what's excruciatingly wrong here.

It looks weird running at 60fps.

Good weird.

Spoiler

Gotta love that placebo effect.

 

[AzaK]

I'm going to try hard to invest in at least one of the other guys next time hope I have the money but I've been a nintendo only gamer for a very long time, and know better than to look at the other guys.

its not a good place to be so if you can afford it buy other platforms too

I was enjoying GTA Vice City and San Andreas recently on my macbook so I know sooner or later I'll play the Witcher, Skyrim and Saint Row or other things I've missed out on

its not the hardware I want from Nintendo but the software

If Nintendo software was available any other place then my purchase choice would be easier

every ten I have to think about money for 3 platforms

- Nintendo home Console (5 years)
- Nintendo Portable (3-4 years)
- and my Mac update (3 years)

So if MS could give me a really strong reason to squeeze in just one more platform by putting something out in 2013 that is 15x WiiU - YES PLEASE if its $399

I think next gen it's going to be hard for me to justify a second console, so I have to choose wisely. This 720 info that ShockingAlberto mentioned yesterday has me concerned. Part of me wants to wait until it comes out and see how Wii U does in that time, but that's quite a wait without a next gen console so I may very well go with the Wii U until the Wii Everyone comes. For me it's mainly about 3rd party support - that is probably the biggest deciding factor - so I will have to be comfortable that Wii U will deliver in that regard.

 

[Christberg]

Well, a 15-fold increase in power over Wii U would probably put such a system beyond an IBM Power 750 Express (excluding excessive amounts of Ethernet ports and similar of course) even, and that starts on a 4-core 3.7 GHz POWER7 format with 8 GB RDIMM DDR3, with power requirements of 200 V to 240 V ac. US starting list price is $23,739.00, though that of course incorporates a lot of things the normal consumer would have no use of, so a theoretical Xbox console with specs beyond these would probably be cheaper. And not to forget, default weight of this system is 120.0 lb (54.4 kg). I'd like to see a soccer mom pull that from her bag for her five year old son to play Call of Duty on.

I just put together a couple Dell R810s for work... 2X Hex core Nehalem processors, 96GB of RAM, quad 10GbE NICS, SSD RAID...

Chuck a couple 7990s in that sucker...

MS can easily eat the loss on that, right?

 

[Rush2thestart]

I just thought this was interesting, Geoff Keighley mentions Epic Mickey 2 on Wii U and Warren Spector kinda dodges the question:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/warren-spector-disneys-epic/728468

14:25

 

[boyshine]

I’m seriously doubting the impact of the next ps/xbox generation if they have graphics as their main draw. We’re six years into this generation and people are still looking at PS3 as „the new console”, with impressive graphics. I don’t think the next step in graphics, animation and ai will be noticed by the average gamer.

On the other hand people will be impressed by Wii U simply because they don’t expect a Wii console to be that powerful, and the newness of „DS”-gameplay in HD will really hit home with the DS-generation who grew up with their DS and DS Lite.

Yes, Wii U will probably „only” have a year’s head start until the monsterboxes arrive but practically because of price and the highly likely slow start of Xbox 3 and PS4, I’m really not seeing Wii U losing ground until 2016.. and by 2017 Nintendo can be ready to launch the next console. If Wii U is a runaway success it might even prolong the life of PS3 and Xbox 360 to the point where we have DS vs PSP situation of the high end option being ignored by the mass market.

I’m not saying that the next Xbox or PlayStation will bomb, just that even if they release in 2013/early 2014 it will probably take a while for them to reach a price point where most people want to upgrade. A 16-24 month warm up period for these consoles is a reasonable guesstimation IMO.

 

[TAS]

The Space World 2001 Mario Sunshine looked amazing. It's a shame the final product couldn't match it. :|

 

[Log4Girlz]

I think the GPU alone will be 2x the Xenos, while everything else will be a bit less than 2x...as a whole then, the Wii U will be less than 2x the Xenos. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Luigiv]

The Space World 2001 Mario Sunshine looked amazing. It's a shame the final product couldn't match it. :|

Again, this time not spoilered for those missing the hint:

Gotta love that placebo effect.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I just thought this was interesting, Geoff Keighley mentions Epic Mickey 2 on Wii U and Warren Spector kinda dodges the question:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/warren-spector-disneys-epic/728468

14:25

Transcript please? (can't watch)

 

[Anth0ny]

Yeah... I don't believe that I have to explain what's excruciatingly wrong here.

Spoiler

Gotta love that placebo effect.

I know, I know. But you could see it! I swear!

 

[AceBandage]

I think the GPU alone will be 2x the Xenos, while everything else will be a bit less than 2x...as a whole then, the Wii U will be less than 2x the Xenos. Hope I'm wrong.

The Xenos is the GPU only... and the RAM would be at least 2x.

 

[Anth0ny]

Transcript please? (can't watch)

"Wii U is kind of a special case," said the Epic Mickey creator. "The way the player interacts with the device is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game."

Even then, the Epic Mickey 2 engine is still compatible with the Wii U, says Spector. The issue isn't with the game's engine, but rather what seems to be Spector's desire to create a unique title centered on the Wii U's capabilities. That's good to know, because the last thing we need is a wacky Wii U port of what could be a great game on other consoles. If Spector wants to tinker around with the upcoming Nintendo console's hardware to deliver an intriguing and unique game, that's a much better idea than a port.

 

[AceBandage]

"Wii U is kind of a special case," said the Epic Mickey creator. "The way the player interacts with the device is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game."

Even then, the Epic Mickey 2 engine is still compatible with the Wii U, says Spector. The issue isn't with the game's engine, but rather what seems to be Spector's desire to create a unique title centered on the Wii U's capabilities. That's good to know, because the last thing we need is a wacky Wii U port of what could be a great game on other consoles. If Spector wants to tinker around with the upcoming Nintendo console's hardware to deliver an intriguing and unique game, that's a much better idea than a port.

You're silly.

 

[Oddduck]

"Wii U is kind of a special case," said the Epic Mickey creator. "The way the player interacts with the device is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game."

Even then, the Epic Mickey 2 engine is still compatible with the Wii U, says Spector. The issue isn't with the game's engine, but rather what seems to be Spector's desire to create a unique title centered on the Wii U's capabilities. That's good to know, because the last thing we need is a wacky Wii U port of what could be a great game on other consoles. If Spector wants to tinker around with the upcoming Nintendo console's hardware to deliver an intriguing and unique game, that's a much better idea than a port.

People ripped Hideo Kojima to shreads for saying the same exact thing about Wii U. How he'd rather make something unique specifically for the controller.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Again, this time not spoilered for those missing the hint:

Gotta love that placebo effect.

I don't think he was even talking about the supposed 60 fps.

If he wasn't, then I agree with him. I happen to like the way the beta looks, I've always liked it.

 

[methodman]

"Wii U is kind of a special case," said the Epic Mickey creator. "The way the player interacts with the device is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game."

Even then, the Epic Mickey 2 engine is still compatible with the Wii U, says Spector. The issue isn't with the game's engine, but rather what seems to be Spector's desire to create a unique title centered on the Wii U's capabilities. That's good to know, because the last thing we need is a wacky Wii U port of what could be a great game on other consoles. If Spector wants to tinker around with the upcoming Nintendo console's hardware to deliver an intriguing and unique game, that's a much better idea than a port.

or he's giving us the kojima, lol

 

[HylianTom]

People ripped Hideo Kojima to shreads for saying the same exact thing about Wii U. How he'd rather make something unique specifically for the controller.

If the quote is real, Spector would get blasted, too. Memories of the same thing said about the Wii remote are still quite fresh.

 

[Grymm]

or he's giving us the kojima, lol

It definitely sounds like he flipped Nintendo the Kojima this time around.

 

[HylianTom]

It definitely sounds like he flipped Nintendo the Kojima this time around.

Nice. Are we gonna try to verbify this? I'm fully on-board.

There seems to be plenty of this kind of "I love Nintendo" bullshit on one hand <<///>> no games resulting on the shelf on the other hand.
I'd love to see the incongruity called-out a bit more. It'd be especially lovely if Nintendo recognized it and called it out, but they're probably too scared.

 

[BY2K]

"Wii U is kind of a special case," said the Epic Mickey creator. "The way the player interacts with the device is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game."

Stop that.

I'm serious.

 

[AceBandage]

You guys really fell for that quote twice?

 

[HylianTom]

You guys really fell for that quote twice?

Nope.

Spoiler

I remember it from earlier in the thread (earlier today, in fact), and it makes my blood boil every time I see that kind of thing. I reeeeeally hate the two-facedness that we see from smoke-billowing developers.

 

[Grymm]

You guys really fell for that quote twice?

No.

Spoiler

Yes.

 

[Anth0ny]

Stop that.

I'm serious.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I've read the last 5 or 6 pages and IdeaMan's posts and I gotta say it sounds fake to me. Just a bunch of vague statements with little to no specifics. A combination of the content in his posts, his writing style, his attention-seeking teases, and other things are giving me a BS vibe. When you've been on the Internet for so many years (I'm an expert, etc.) your BS radar gets more and more advanced, and mine's certainly detected something with IdeaMan.

Nintendo fans seem to believe in stuff like this too easily (not an insult, just an observation). Many of them seem to be more gullible than the average console warrior. Guek is 100% right, take what this guy says with an enormous boulder of salt.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I've read the last 5 or 6 pages and IdeaMan's posts and I gotta say it sounds fake to me. Just a bunch of vague statements with little to no specifics. A combination of the content in his posts, his writing style, his attention-seeking teases, and other things are giving me a BS vibe.
When you've been on the Internet for so many years (I'm an expert, etc.) your BS radar gets more and more advanced, and mine's certainly detected something with IdeaMan.

Nintendo fans seem to believe in stuff like this too easily (not an insult, just an observation). Many of them seem to be more gullible than the average console warrior. Guek is 100% right, take what this guy says with an enormous boulder of salt.

I take everything with a grain of salt, even developer opinions can differ month to month.

 

[LOCK]

I believe IdeaMan for the very fact that he isn't boastful.

 

[Linkhero1]

I've read the last 5 or 6 pages and IdeaMan's posts and I gotta say it sounds fake to me. Just a bunch of vague statements with little to no specifics. A combination of the content in his posts, his writing style, his attention-seeking teases, and other things are giving me a BS vibe. When you've been on the Internet for so many years (I'm an expert, etc.) your BS radar gets more and more advanced, and mine's certainly detected something with IdeaMan.

Nintendo fans seem to believe in stuff like this too easily (not an insult, just an observation). Many of them seem to be more gullible than the average console warrior. Guek is 100% right, take what this guy says with an enormous boulder of salt.

Yeah I feel the same way. Taking everything said with a grain of salt since we won't see anything until E3.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

A news concerning the dev kits, as promised

Third-party studios will receive the "v5" dev kits very soon (before the next month). It's even possible that some just got them

- They are apparently the dev kits which where in possession of Nintendo lately (whereas third-parties had the V4).
- There is a noticeable increase of performances with them, a noticeable but not huge however. We don't know if this amelioration is due to a change of components, tweaking of the previously present ones (frequencies, etc.), or a global & light optimization of the hardware, the dev kit itself, the software development kit that may be linked to it, etc.

Some details about the context and assumptions:

- Except maybe big japanese studios (like Capcom), i doubt that other third-parties received these dev kits (much) earlier. It's likely that my sources are one of the firsts to be granted of the latest revisions. This means that all the declarations, the news, from foreign developers, that you've read until now, were in a V4 dev kit framework, before the release of these newest ones.

- A previous post of lherre indicated that Nintendo guys were testing an engine and saw slightly improved results on the V5 compare to V4.
Context: it was posted 1 month ago, when lherre decided to come out of his lair in answer to my very first message to confirm that Wii U was clearly closer to "2x than 5x xbox360". And he basically added that the expected more advanced dev kit in Nintendo headquarters at the time that i've talked about will not change dramatically the Wii U power status. So he surely knew of these engine benchmarks before my intervention, maybe some days, maybe some weeks.
Assumption: considering the 1month+ interval between these internal tests and the V5 delivery to third-parties (minus the dev kits assembly and shipping), there's a chance that the V5 dev kits in the hands of foreign studios have received even more hardware refinements and optimizations than the models used for these Nintendo tests some time before.

- They could have a different code name, but my sources called them V5, as in "the ones following the V4 that they currently develop on". Therefore, it appears they are a rather major revision.


[Now, a detail that could be important, but i'm not sure at all of it, as what my sources told me isn't clear and rely on subjectivity (maybe they haven't understood well what Nintendo said). Take that with caution, and it would be cool if a developer working on the Wii U could precise this.

- It seems these kits may be "near final"

It's possible that Nintendo still have more advanced dev kits, but apparently not to a point to constitute a real new future revision (perhaps just small increments in numbers like 5.1/5.2). There may be new dev kit shippings to come but it could point that there is a progressive stabilization in hardware changes. It could also be a word-confusion from my sources between "last" and "latest", or maybe Nintendo thought that when i gathered these infos (a few weeks) but in fact there will be new revisions in the work because they decided to modify the components again, etc. So big grain of salt for this part]

I hope we'll hear more about these dev kits, what kind of modifications occurred on them, and their performances.

For example, this entire post to me reads like a bunch of vague statements and guesswork, nothing specific.

It's long-winded malarkey in the guise of real information.

Yeah I feel the same way. Taking everything said with a grain of salt since we see anything until E3.

Pretty much.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Thats not what Warren Spector said.

 

[Bagu]

I trust IdeaMan because he's French. He probably comes from a lineage of french spies

 

[AceBandage]

I trust IdeaMan because he's French. He probably comes from a lineage of french spies

Cheese eating surrender monkys.

 

[HylianTom]

Yeah I feel the same way. Taking everything said with a grain of salt since we see anything until E3.

I think the phrase "trust, but verify" comes into play here. If he's shown to be accurate at E3, he'd be a great source for future cycles.

I'd believe in him more if he told us something that isn't nearly as vague, something that isn't as easily guessable. But I still find him to be entertaining/charming at the very least and thought-provoking/hope-inspiring at his very best. And he has some pretty solid folks in here saying that, from private conversations, he seems legit.

Still, trust but verify. Until then, you can't feel 100%.

Now.. I might as well make this interesting:
if IdeaMan - or any other insiders, for that matter - wants to email me a solid, specific, unguessable Wii U secret in attachment form not to be opened until E3, I'll gladly promise on my sweet Jake's (pictured, left) honor to not open the attachment(s) until the hour of Nintendo's 2012 E3 conference.

=====

And I like the French. Not just because of their influence on my beloved home town, but also because of the solid naval help they gave us at Yorktown. A fine military strategy hour, indeed.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I believe IdeaMan for the very fact that he isn't boastful.

I believe him because he's acting much like I would if I had a trickle of insider info.

"Hey, guys, I found out something really neat. It has to do with R__r_ _tu___s &#8592;- I'm obscuring it so you can all have fun for a few days. The secret will be spilled next Tuesday!"


In truth (and as I said before), the things that he's been saying are so close to the general consensus of those with the ability to think critically that it does not actually hurt at all to believe his words. What he says will pretty much end up the truth, even if he has no insider information.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I think the phrase "trust, but verify" comes into play here. If he's shown to be accurate at E3, he'd be a great source for future cycles.

I'm sticking with the good ol' standby "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, I have a shotgun".

 

[Bagu]

Cheese eating surrender monkys.

It's been the french that's been leaking as of late, so ya

 

[HylianTom]

I'm sticking with the good ol' standby "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, I have a shotgun".

Have I heard this before somewhere? If not, it'd make a great book title.

Either that, or Nintendo's writers could use it as a tagline for their upcoming dudebro shooter game, developed by Retro.

 

[Linkhero1]

I think the phrase "trust, but verify" comes into play here. If he's shown to be accurate at E3, he'd be a great source for future cycles.

I'd believe in him more if he told us something that isn't nearly as vague, something that isn't as easily guessable. But I still find him to be entertaining/charming at the very least and thought-provoking/hope-inspiring at his very best. And he has some pretty solid folks in here saying that, from private conversations, he seems legit.

Still, trust but verify. Until then, you can't feel 100%.

Now.. I might as well make this interesting:
if IdeaMan - or any other insiders, for that matter - wants to email me a solid, specific, unguessable Wii U secret in attachment form not to be opened until E3, I'll gladly promise on my sweet Jake's (pictured, left) honor to not open the attachment(s) until the hour of Nintendo's 2012 E3 conference.

=====

And I like the French. Not just because of their influence on my beloved home town, but also because of the solid naval help they gave us at Yorktown. A fine military strategy hour, indeed.

The chances of someone who knows something genuine leaking something to us is pretty slim considering the Nintendo Ninjas would be up their ass.

 

[AceBandage]

Have I heard this before somewhere? If not, it'd make a great book title.

Either that, or Nintendo's writers could use it as a tagline for their upcoming dudebro shooter game, developed by Retro.

Or just make a game staring Reggie. "I'm here to kick ass and take names in my big damn truck. "

 

[bgassassin]

The chances of someone who knows something genuine leaking something to us is pretty slim considering the Nintendo Ninjas would be up their ass.

That's why you need an assassin to do it.

<_<

>_>

 

[Bagu]

The chances of someone who knows something genuine leaking something to us is pretty slim considering the Nintendo Ninjas would be up their ass.

We need a hero who's willing to make that sacrifice.

 

[stupidvillager]

I have no problem with Ideaman or the way he reveals what he knows. People would be saying the same things about him if he did it any other way. Even he says its all second hand info and to take it with a grain of salt. If his sources are vague, what is he to do. At least he's telling us this much.

 

[Linkhero1]

That's why you need an assassin to do it.

<_<

>_>

I see what you did there

We need a hero who's willing to make that sacrifice.

I also see what you did here.

 

[agrajag]

Man, watching those Mario Sunshine videos, it's crazy how much better SMG looks. Sunshine looks almost like an N64 game at times.

 

[HylianTom]

Or just make a game staring Reggie. "I'm here to kick ass and take names in my big damn truck. "

If they model the mechanics of this game after RoadBlasters, I'd be as happy as a little girl!

 

[BD1]

IdeaMan, what, if anything, have you heard about using 2 DRCs on one console? After the system was revealed there was a lot of confusion (like everything else about the system) about how many controllers could work at once, but the prevailing tought was that it was one per console. Then we heard rumors that Nintendo realized they needed multi tablet support and were changing dev kits to support at least two. Now, the information we are hearing suggests the DRC is taxing on the system.

I assume its probably subjective depending on the game, but have you heard anything?