Will Plasmas of LCD's ever match CRT's in picture quality?
- Thread starter moondance
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DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
It's all about the source and intended use. The main drawback to fixed pixel displays (LCD, Plasmas etc). is that they only look good at their native resolution.
LCDs have made some great strides recently. In fact, my primary game display at home now is an LCDTV, and I have no complaints.
I personally look forward to small form factor CRT displays... CED/NED is cool and all that, but they're not going to be as cheap as a certain someone has suggested.
LCDs have made some great strides recently. In fact, my primary game display at home now is an LCDTV, and I have no complaints.
I personally look forward to small form factor CRT displays... CED/NED is cool and all that, but they're not going to be as cheap as a certain someone has suggested.
Spectral Glider
Member
tmdorsey said:
That would be my only complaint about the LCD I just got for my PC a few months ago....the black levels during game play aren't so great. But otherwise, I love the thing.
plasma's already match CRTs at producing the best quality pictures around (as long as you don't stand too close and are viewing something at the native resolution).
In terms of the future, I think a lot of new technologies are out that could really push the CRT out of the market when they become viable (especially LCoS front-projection and new SED displays).
In terms of the future, I think a lot of new technologies are out that could really push the CRT out of the market when they become viable (especially LCoS front-projection and new SED displays).
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
The black level thing isn't that serious IMO. I was actually looking at blacks last night while I was gaming. As long as black looks black, and not grey, then it's alright w/ me. Some LCDs handle blacks better than others.
But yeah, CRTs give the best blacks hands down.
I've been playing w/ the CRT projector here at work all day. I think I want another projector. I sold the two I had, and now I miss 'em.
But yeah, CRTs give the best blacks hands down.
I've been playing w/ the CRT projector here at work all day. I think I want another projector. I sold the two I had, and now I miss 'em.
The cynic in me would say it doesn't matter as the Consumer Electronics companies will stop making CRTs in the next 5-10 years anyway, so you won't have a choice.
Having said that, my main TV is LCD, and its way better than my old CRT was, in all but black level (which is acceptable). Resolution is much much better - it has a great scaler to bring everything up to 720p. This is in the UK where we only have SD transmissions.
Having said that, my main TV is LCD, and its way better than my old CRT was, in all but black level (which is acceptable). Resolution is much much better - it has a great scaler to bring everything up to 720p. This is in the UK where we only have SD transmissions.
The tech is always advancing.
My plasma handles blacks perfectly, its black like CRT instead of the 'greys' most plasmas still have. And yes a plasma picture looks like a CRT picture only just its a flatscreen. Its not even the latest plasma anymore. You;ll also be seeing more plastic screen plasmas too which are alot lighter(kinda like LCDs). You'll see alot happening in the fuitre in regards to LCD, plasmas and other tech
They still need improvements in many areas.
Its only a matter of time before CRT's get overtaken although for best PQ they are the best if you dont mind the size.
My plasma handles blacks perfectly, its black like CRT instead of the 'greys' most plasmas still have. And yes a plasma picture looks like a CRT picture only just its a flatscreen. Its not even the latest plasma anymore. You;ll also be seeing more plastic screen plasmas too which are alot lighter(kinda like LCDs). You'll see alot happening in the fuitre in regards to LCD, plasmas and other tech
They still need improvements in many areas. Its only a matter of time before CRT's get overtaken although for best PQ they are the best if you dont mind the size.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
I know you have a bias since you're a owner... But plasmas have serious 'screen door' issues unless the native res is high enough to not notice.
What set do you have?
They look great if you don't sit close to it.
DaCocoBrova said:
Yeah. SD plasmas get screwed from two directions. They have a very low resolution, so the dots are big. Plus they are big screens, so the dots are even bigger.
LCDs have much better fillrate, so even if you are watching an SD program upscaled by the screen, the pixel density is still much higher. So LCD is better if you have to watch from a close distance - which is helpful as they are generally smaller screens.
If you have a specific size in mind, then that can rule out plasma or LCD right away, and make your comparisons to CRTs easier.
Deg said:The tech is always advancing.
My plasma handles blacks perfectly, its black like CRT instead of the 'greys' most plasmas still have. And yes a plasma picture looks like a CRT picture only just its a flatscreen. Its not even the latest plasma anymore. You;ll also be seeing more plastic screen plasmas too which are alot lighter(kinda like LCDs). You'll see alot happening in the fuitre in regards to LCD, plasmas and other tech
Its only a matter of time before CRT's get overtaken although for best PQ they are the best if you dont mind the size.
I would have to disagree dude...plasma's and lcd's are well known to be weak in the black level dept. I know, my dad and uncle are both high tech heads when it comes to their home theater equipment. I have had many hours spent on both of their theater setups and with over 15,000 grand invested in each of their set ups..they even admit that the tech is just not there yet to compete with the best of CRT's out there..this is a known fact to anyone that really does own a nice lcd or plasma and being truthful about it.
Some will deny this of course.....
For those of us with big rooms we need plamas. CRT's are too tiny. CRT's are best for quality but people are demanding more.
You would have been right afew years back. Things dont stand still you know. Black levels arent much of an issue for some plasmas. Ask the people here who brought their Panasonic plasmas recently. The way they are improving CRT will have a tough time soon enough. Its kinda fun watching all these new developments in the LCD and Plasma world.
Sony plasma are crap
Judging stuf fby showrooms is tupid as they never set everyhting up properly unless the setup is paid for.
Moegames said:
You would have been right afew years back. Things dont stand still you know. Black levels arent much of an issue for some plasmas. Ask the people here who brought their Panasonic plasmas recently. The way they are improving CRT will have a tough time soon enough. Its kinda fun watching all these new developments in the LCD and Plasma world.
PG2G said:
Sony plasma are crap
Judging stuf fby showrooms is tupid as they never set everyhting up properly unless the setup is paid for.heavy liquid
Member
Not only is the picture quality of a CRT better than plasma or LCD, but they run circles around them as far as pricing is concerned. Until the quality of them goes up AND the prices come down, it's not worth it for me. I don't feel like paying twice as much just to have a thin screen.
While I think they will improve, it is unlikely IMO that LCD or Plasma will ever equal CRT - especially in terms of black level. It's just the nature of the technology.
Luckily there are some newer flat panel techs on the horizon, ones without the drawbacks inherent to LCD and plasma.
Luckily there are some newer flat panel techs on the horizon, ones without the drawbacks inherent to LCD and plasma.
Kanbee-san
Member
CRT's are better in every way except for their bulky size.
Its not true that CRT do everything better than Plasma and LCDS. I have a Panasonic PD30 which most critics reckon is the best CRT TV you can get for PQ in the UK. And yep when set up properly it does look stunning (it also supports progressive in PAL ans NTSC). However this setting up took ages botching with the geometry in the service menu. This is where LCD and Plasmas have an advantage over CRT in that that the geometry will be truer because of the size of the screen. For pure picture quality even a £3000 LCD dosen't come close to a good CRT and its going the be a good while before they do.
While some may, it is not the rule - unless you are comparing to less-than-stellar CRT or talking about high-end plasmas. Regardless, that is not the only issue that exists with plasma TV's.
I never said they were going anywhere. Plasma and LCD's certainly have their uses, but then again that wasn't the question posed by this thread
OLED is not the only new tech in development, but that is neither here not there. Regardless, I find the hypocrisy of this comment quite amusing. You point to problems in these new technologies as though they have insurmountable, crippling flaws, yet earlier cite that Plasma, a technology thats been around for a while, eventually worked out some of its own problems. I fully expect issues to exist in new tech, I also fully expect improvements will occur in future revs of said tech. To not is to disregard history. While I understand plasma and LCDs will continue to evolve, the reason electronics companies are spending millions of dollars in R&D for new techs is because they believe they will be able to build a better mousetrap. Basically, they think some of new techs have more upside than Plasma and LCD will ever have.
The only gripe i have with my plasma is the resolution. Everything else is great about it. I have a 32" CRT too. 
Will be getting a new one this week or next. Might post it here.
Well they will certainly come up with good stuff but noone has found real alternatives yet despite various hypes. LCD and Plasma are also advancing however at the same time, its worth following companies like Sharp, Panasonic , Pioneer etc. they make great strides in flat panels consistently. Many companies take gambles. Sony underestimated LCD's and Plasmas and have suffered as a result for example. Sales are up, up for flat panels. Its a good thing for the tech as even CRT's in their early days werent exactly great!
We will be seeing some nice stuff next year
Will be getting a new one this week or next. Might post it here.Onix said:
Well they will certainly come up with good stuff but noone has found real alternatives yet despite various hypes. LCD and Plasma are also advancing however at the same time, its worth following companies like Sharp, Panasonic , Pioneer etc. they make great strides in flat panels consistently. Many companies take gambles. Sony underestimated LCD's and Plasmas and have suffered as a result for example. Sales are up, up for flat panels. Its a good thing for the tech as even CRT's in their early days werent exactly great!
We will be seeing some nice stuff next year
Kanbee-san
Member
tmdorsey said:
And they burn like an albino in the sun !
Deg,
The discussion will quite pretty interesting when some of the nanotube stuff hits stride, but that won't be for a little bit. For my money now though, I'd probably get a DLP if CRT was out of the picture (no pun intended). Either one with a high segment color wheel, or if money is not prohibitive - which should be case in a discussion of large LCD or plasma displays - a 3 DLP unit.
LCoS, and its different variations (D-ILA, X-TAL, etc.), would probably be ahead of DLP on my list, but considering its unknown future (yield issues with little demand to force economy-of-scale, etc) its probably not worth including in this discussion.
The discussion will quite pretty interesting when some of the nanotube stuff hits stride, but that won't be for a little bit. For my money now though, I'd probably get a DLP if CRT was out of the picture (no pun intended). Either one with a high segment color wheel, or if money is not prohibitive - which should be case in a discussion of large LCD or plasma displays - a 3 DLP unit.
LCoS, and its different variations (D-ILA, X-TAL, etc.), would probably be ahead of DLP on my list, but considering its unknown future (yield issues with little demand to force economy-of-scale, etc) its probably not worth including in this discussion.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
I love the "arcade" look of console games played on a high end direct view CRT tube via component.
For gaming, other technologies are 'adequate' to 'very good,' while tubes are the only displays to truly give you an 'excellent' picture. This is likely due to the fixed pixel nature of the alternatives.
For gaming, other technologies are 'adequate' to 'very good,' while tubes are the only displays to truly give you an 'excellent' picture. This is likely due to the fixed pixel nature of the alternatives.
Kanbee-san
Member
Onix said:
That sounds like horse shit. Plasma's rarely if at all suffer from burn in. Phosphor based RPTV / CRT's are the prime culprits.
Everything I've read contradicts the statement that plasmas 'rarely if at all' suffer from burn in. I'm not saying its extremely common, but it does happen. Tickers and black bars are the usual culprits.
As far as CRT's, I'm sure it still does happen - its just far less than it used to.
As long as you take the proper precautions, it shouldn't really be an issue with either tech. I'd be more worried about plasmas aging quicker than CRT's, than suffering from burn in.
[edited for grammar and understanding - me hopes!]
As far as CRT's, I'm sure it still does happen - its just far less than it used to.
As long as you take the proper precautions, it shouldn't really be an issue with either tech. I'd be more worried about plasmas aging quicker than CRT's, than suffering from burn in.
[edited for grammar and understanding - me hopes!]
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I have a sony 42inch grand wega rear projection LCD and i compared it with one of my friend's new HDTV he bought just a month ago thats a rear projection panasonic 46inch CRT and, even after i calibrated everything for him with color shades and DVE, we both agreed that it wasnt as nice as mine. Slightest source of light in the room fucked the view, its like a freaking mirror that thing, it reflects EVERY damn thing, forget about using that TV during daylight in a room with windows, unless you live like a vampire. During the night though, his TV has better black levels than mine, but solely for scenes where its pitch black, in scenes thats have high contrasts mine pretty much matches his, if not better, contrast on my TV is freaking sweet. At least on my TV, i can watch it during daylight, with a source of light reflecting directly on it and it will barely lose its quality, in fact, black levels are better during the day than night, thats why i always keep an ambient light with a lamp behind my HT, just like recommended by DVE for any home theater setup anyway.
I almost bought the same HDTV as his, but im glad i put more cash on the table and bought mine, space was an issue for me and after seeing his TV's quality during day, ewww. Oh and LCD is immune to burns in, even though its not much of a problem with modern CRT or plasma displays, its still cool, just have to replace the lamp every so often (2 or 3 years, maybe more depending how often you watch tv) and its as good as new.
I almost bought the same HDTV as his, but im glad i put more cash on the table and bought mine, space was an issue for me and after seeing his TV's quality during day, ewww. Oh and LCD is immune to burns in, even though its not much of a problem with modern CRT or plasma displays, its still cool, just have to replace the lamp every so often (2 or 3 years, maybe more depending how often you watch tv) and its as good as new.
Buggy,
The reflectivity issue and apparent lack of shadow detail in high contrast situations is not a problem with CRT technology, but an issue with that specific make and model.
Its sad in this day and age that manufacturers still make RPTV screens that are reflective. The technology to overcome this is not very expensive, but many manufacturers only put it on their higher end models
I know the new Sony Grand WEGAs are pretty sick. Basically no screen door, and pretty impressive black levels.
The reflectivity issue and apparent lack of shadow detail in high contrast situations is not a problem with CRT technology, but an issue with that specific make and model.
Its sad in this day and age that manufacturers still make RPTV screens that are reflective. The technology to overcome this is not very expensive, but many manufacturers only put it on their higher end models
I know the new Sony Grand WEGAs are pretty sick. Basically no screen door, and pretty impressive black levels.
Buggy Loop said:
Well I bought the same 42 inch Sony Grand Wega Rear Projection LCD TV as you and I took it back to Circuit City after a week. I was comparing it to my 3 year old 32 inch Sony Trinitron Direct View HDTV. It was no match the 32 incher had much better picture quality for gaming, 480i, 480p, and 720p all looked way better on the 32 incher. HD channels looked slightly worst too and non-HD channels looked very bad on the 42 incher. As far as DVD movies, I would say it was about even. The one game that the difference really stood out was Ninja Gaiden on Xbox, man I was so disappointed with the 42 incher and it cost about $800 more then what I paid for the 32 incher. Instead I am thinking about getting 34 inch Widescreen Sony HDTV Direct View set now.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...D34XBR960&Dept=tv&CategoryName=tv_34"to36"TVs
mashoutposse
Ante Up
That XBR is an excellent set. Super Fine Pitch = amazing clarity and next to no screen door effect.
Plus, the built in HD tuner for over the air broadcasts is nice.
Plus, the built in HD tuner for over the air broadcasts is nice.
Kanbee-san
Member
Onix said:
I guess its just different to what burn in looks like. Plasma's are like throwing money away. They have lives of something like 10,000 hours..... which equated to about 1 hour :lol
Good HD plasmas with a HD source already beat CRT sets imo - the colours are better, the blacks on plasmas these days are just as rich as CRTs, they're typically larger, they resolve more detail and their unlike CRTs their geometry is spot on 100% of the time.
As for burn in and picture fade current gen plasmas, it just isnt an issue anymore, theres a lot of people in this thread posting false and outdated information who obviously dont have a clue.
As for burn in and picture fade current gen plasmas, it just isnt an issue anymore, theres a lot of people in this thread posting false and outdated information who obviously dont have a clue.
Current plasmas all have methods to prevent burn-in, either by shitfting the pixels at set time intervals and/or by alternating the lines it uses to display the picture, and I remember the exact math but 60,000 hours of life worked out to be like, 8hrs of use a day for the next 20 years or something ie not an issue.
Those methods should prevent it, but if you don't calibrate the contrast and watch a lot of 'problem' content - it can still potentially happen. I only mention this since many games are notorious for being 'problem' content.
Also, I assume the 60,000 hours figure is that the expected life of the TV itself? I'm under the impression that the half-life (point at which phosphors glow half as bright) of the gases is much lower than that.
Also, I assume the 60,000 hours figure is that the expected life of the TV itself? I'm under the impression that the half-life (point at which phosphors glow half as bright) of the gases is much lower than that.
Kanbee-san
Member
Fusebox said:
The lifespan has gotten much better, but if you were an early adopter (ie 2 years ago in my country) it was less than 10,000 hours.
High end CRT's are the best picture you are going to get. Its that simple.
Fuesbox when u find me a plasma that displays HDTV at the proper resolution, i'll buy it.
currently 1024 x 1024 is as good as it gets.
My sony CRT runs at full res ie 1920 x 1080 and is capable of 1920 x 1440, the actual tube resolution.
just for reference i have a SIM2 hd800 3 tube crt projector which is at the higher end of projectors and the sony crt looks better than that.
currently 1024 x 1024 is as good as it gets.
My sony CRT runs at full res ie 1920 x 1080 and is capable of 1920 x 1440, the actual tube resolution.
just for reference i have a SIM2 hd800 3 tube crt projector which is at the higher end of projectors and the sony crt looks better than that.
I´m not a technical and don´t know the details, but I pass an insane time in front of PCs and consoles and I'm absolutely in love with my 23" Flatron LCD from LG. I use it as PC monitor and TV only for my three systems (Xbox thorugh component, GC and PS2 through S-video). It´s not only practical (before I had two monitors, a LCD and a huge CRT, because my old LCD didn´t support an adapter for the consoles).
It´s a beauty, and I obtain an fantastic image quality in every system, specially in PC (1260x720 it´s more comfortable to me than the maximum of 1260x1024) through DVI. I´m very happy with it.
Not the best picture, maybe.
It´s a beauty, and I obtain an fantastic image quality in every system, specially in PC (1260x720 it´s more comfortable to me than the maximum of 1260x1024) through DVI. I´m very happy with it.
Not the best picture, maybe.