Windows 8 Release Preview

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The whole screen changing complaint just baffles me and I say this every time but come on, every time you launch anything or alt-tab your screen changes. It might take a bit of getting used to but once you expect the behaviour I don't see the issue.
You don't see a problem with showing the customer a screen that they don't need, over and over again, reminding you that, hey - this is meant for tablets, it's not dedicated to your desktop.

Still haven't played with it myself, but I can see how it's still bothersome, seeing as how the 'start screen' just shouldn't be needed at all when used as a desktop.

And pinning all your apps to your taskbar, really? When did you ever have all your (pinned) start menu apps, also pinned to your taskbar?
 
You don't see a problem with showing the customer a screen that they don't need, over and over again, reminding you that, hey - this is meant for tablets, it's not dedicated to your desktop.

Still haven't played with it myself, but I can see how it's still bothersome, seeing as how the 'start screen' just shouldn't be needed at all when used as a desktop.

And pinning all your apps to your taskbar, really? When did you ever have all your (pinned) start menu apps, also pinned to your taskbar?

No, I don't see a problem with it. It's a launcher. I don't see it over and over again, I see it maybe 10 seconds out of the day, or not at all.

I don't expect people to pin every program they have installed but on my screen for example, 1920x1200, I can have approximately 30 programs pinned. That should be more than sufficient to hold the programs you are using the vast majority of the time. For those other rare instances the Start screen is much faster for finding and launching those seldom used apps than having to trudge through the old Start menu folder structure. If it REALLY bothers you that much you can always have icons for stuff on the desktop.

Why do you feel the start menu is superior to a full screen launcher when it comes to desktops?
 
No, I don't see a problem with it. It's a launcher. I don't see it over and over again, I see it maybe 10 seconds out of the day, or not at all.
That mitigates the problem, but it still gives the same feeling IMO. Seems like it's something that's blatantly 'unfinished'. Besides that, you see it 10seconds out of the day because you've been working around it, that's not a fair counter-argument.

I don't expect people to pin every program they have installed but on my screen for example, 1920x1200, I can have approximately 30 programs pinned. That should be more than sufficient to hold the programs you are using the vast majority of the time. For those other rare instances the Start screen is much faster for finding and launching those seldom used apps than having to trudge through the old Start menu folder structure. If it REALLY bothers you that much you can always have icons for stuff on the desktop.
I have the same resolution, and I only use 11 pinned programs. I prefer it that way. You'd essentially remove the option of 'never combine, always show labels' by having so many pinned programs to your taskbar.

Trudge through the start menu? Could you give me a comparison as to how the W8 Start screen is less of a trudge? I've seen the pictures on high resolution screens, and the amount of icons makes it a huge trudge IMO. How is this any different from the normal start menu > all programs feature? I only used the start menu's 'all programs' when I start a rarely used app, most of the time I can search for it instead. The array of most-used apps, and pinned apps and quick links in the very first view - how is that a trudge? It's more compact and concise than the W8 start screen.

Why do you feel the start menu is superior to a full screen launcher when it comes to desktops?
Less intrusive, and most of all not completely out of line with the desktop design.
 
That mitigates the problem, but it still gives the same feeling IMO. Seems like it's something that's blatantly 'unfinished'. Besides that, you see it 10seconds out of the day because you've been working around it, that's not a fair counter-argument.

That's not true. How often do you see opened start menu when you're using Windows? Do you open it and stare at it all the time, or simply do a Windows button -> search for program/phrase -> Enter? Because that's exactly how Start Screen works. I'm using Windows 8 as my regular system since February. I don't "work around" start screen because I don't mind it. And yet I hardly see it. I only see it when I'm actually using it, i.e. when I'm searching for files.
 
That's not true. How often do you see opened start menu when you're using Windows? Do you open it and stare at it all the time, or simply do a Windows button -> search for program/phrase -> Enter? Because that's exactly how Start Screen works. I'm using Windows 8 as my regular system since February. I don't "work around" start screen because I don't mind it. And yet I hardly see it. I only see it when I'm actually using it, i.e. when I'm searching for files.
I open programs that are not on my taskbar as well - the pinned and recently used ones in start. Searching works the same way as the start menu, so why is a full-screen version better? If I'm wrong and it does work differently, then how could it not be done in a smaller screen inside the desktop environment and design?
 
We are really scared of the changes in Windows 8. People have a right to be scared after 2000 and Vista. Windows 7 was the best product they ever launched. I think many people love metro and think it's sleak, but they dont know how metro makes sense in a non-touch enviroment.
 
We are really scared of the changes in Windows 8. People have a right to be scared after 2000 and Vista. Windows 7 was the best product they ever launched. I think many people love metro and think it's sleak, but they dont know how metro makes sense in a non-touch enviroment.
Indeed. I'm not getting how the Metro environment is suitable for Desktop usage - everyone here seems to still be using the Desktop as the main interface, not as an add-on/added functionality. Why is that? If you boot up to the Metro start screen on your desktop, but not have desktop functionality in that environment, how is that not supposed to feel tacky?

Let me ask this - is any desktop user here using Metro for most all their functionality? If so, is it working well? If not, why not?
 
So is there a way to make your own custom metro-styled icons for the Start Menu? For stuff like iTunes and older games?
 
We are really scared of the changes in Windows 8. People have a right to be scared after 2000 and Vista. Windows 7 was the best product they ever launched. I think many people love metro and think it's sleak, but they dont know how metro makes sense in a non-touch enviroment.

Nah you're not scared at all. You just want to hate on it as it seems like you're ignoring the reasons why people genuinely like Windows 8.

You have the opportunity to try it out right now, but no you just want to shit on it.
 
Nah you just want to hate on it as it seems like you're ignoring the reasons why people genuinely like Windows 8.

You have the opportunity to try it out right now, but no you just want to shit on it.
I have had plenty of hands-on experience and I shit on it too.

The desktop environment has no need for the Metro menu/dash. At best, it will be ignored completely, at worst people will hate on it so much MS releases an update that restores the Start menu.
 
Let me ask this - is any desktop user here using Metro for most all their functionality? If so, is it working well? If not, why not?

I'm using a mouse an keyboard on my laptop so it's functionally a one screen desktop (in fact the laptop is 6 years old so the battery is so far gone that it's basically a desktop). I live completely in Metro and I'm fine with it, but I think that's because I'm so familiar with it as a design philosophy because I'm a WP7 user.

I think it's totally liveable as a desktop non-poweruser.
 
I have had plenty of hands-on experience and I shit on it too.

The desktop environment has no need for the Metro menu/dash. At best, it will be ignored completely, at worst people will hate on it so much MS releases an update that restores the Start menu.

The system overall is better than Windows 7. I fail to see how the old start menu does anything better.

Metro certainly makes an excellent menu for telling information at a glance. I can check my mail, weather, stocks, and news headlines with a press of a button.
 
I am a desktop user and the only time I go into the desktop is to use Zune (because the music app sucks), when I need to watch a flash/silverlight video, or to watch something in media player classic.

Also a WP7 user for what its worth.
 
Let me ask this - is any desktop user here using Metro for most all their functionality? If so, is it working well? If not, why not?

Couldn't do it. As good as IE10 is in Metro, it's not that good. The Music app is a load of shit. Sports & News are alright, but I can get better RSS feeders that utilize screen real estate more effectively. Most of the Metro apps included are either very early in development or barebones in functionality. Metro is simply part of the game I play: how fast can I hit Win + D on my keyboard.

That said, the app launching of Metro (which for me is hit the Win key and type the name of the app) is pretty quick. I just don't see myself ever using Metro apps in any real productive capacity. I'm genuinely frightened when they consider Desktop as legacy when its replacement is far more restrictive.
 
Let me ask this - is any desktop user here using Metro for most all their functionality? If so, is it working well? If not, why not?

I spend 95% of my time in the metro UI.... the only thing I go to the desktop for is to transfer files to my media server.
 
Hey guys, I'm thinking about trying about the windows 8 preview. I have an extra internal hard drive that's doing nothing so, how do I go about installing on there? And how do I choose what to boot to when I turn on my pc? Thanks for the help in advanced!
 
Indeed. I'm not getting how the Metro environment is suitable for Desktop usage - everyone here seems to still be using the Desktop as the main interface, not as an add-on/added functionality. Why is that? If you boot up to the Metro start screen on your desktop, but not have desktop functionality in that environment, how is that not supposed to feel tacky?

Let me ask this - is any desktop user here using Metro for most all their functionality? If so, is it working well? If not, why not?
Well it is hard to do right now because of the app situation, anyway i tried to stick to IE10, i love the fullscreen aspect but not having a bookmark bar visible (have to right click) and no extensions is annoying to me. And of course the limits of metro apps on multi monitors is an issue. I still use the mail app but nothing else. I only have the store, remote desktop, reader, mail, weather, pictures and a few orhers pinned to the start screen right now. It works fine with mouse and keyboard but only using 2 apps at a time (even though i still maximize a lot of my desktop apps)and them being limited to one screen is my biggest gripes. I think if they allowed metro to be on more than one screen it would solve my issues (still limited to 2 per screen but you could have 4 if you had two monitors, i have no doubt that is coming though). Anyway, i'll try the metro stuff more when there are more apps in the store. I like where they are headed though.
 
Hey guys, I'm thinking about trying about the windows 8 preview. I have an extra internal hard drive that's doing nothing so, how do I go about installing on there? And how do I choose what to boot to when I turn on my pc? Thanks for the help in advanced!

Start the install and after a few screens you'll be able to choose which hdd you want to use (you can safely start it from current Windows desktop, it won't delete anything). When you're there just select your empty drive.

While it's installing it will create a boot manager for you. When you turn your PC on you'll be giving a choice of which OS you want to boot (it's like the 'safe mode' screen if you've ever seen that)

You can change the settings if run msconfig.exe (just type it into the search box) from either version of Windows. It's useful if you want to change which OS is the default one.
 
That mitigates the problem, but it still gives the same feeling IMO. Seems like it's something that's blatantly 'unfinished'. Besides that, you see it 10seconds out of the day because you've been working around it, that's not a fair counter-argument.

First of all, you said you've never used it so what are you basing this "feeling" on? Screenshots and videos? Second, as Mr_Zombie said, it's not that I rarely see Metro because I'm actively avoiding it, I actually like it, but I rarely see it because I only need to use it as a launcher maybe 2 or 3 times a day and for that purpose I'm in and out of it in about 2 seconds.

I have the same resolution, and I only use 11 pinned programs. I prefer it that way. You'd essentially remove the option of 'never combine, always show labels' by having so many pinned programs to your taskbar.

And aside from those 11 programs, how often during the course of a typical day are you launching other programs?

Trudge through the start menu? Could you give me a comparison as to how the W8 Start screen is less of a trudge? I've seen the pictures on high resolution screens, and the amount of icons makes it a huge trudge IMO. How is this any different from the normal start menu > all programs feature?

It's less of a trudge because everything is 1 click away. I don't know which pictures you've seen but if your Start screen is even somewhat organized it's much faster to find the program you want than having to click through folders.

This picture is from the earliest public build but as an example:

Windows-8-Start-Menu.png


Now on my screen I have 1 extra row but the same number of columns. Even in that picture and keeping in consideration that they have a number of double wide tiles they have 42 apps visible. Add in the extra row that I see and fill in the blank spaces they have and you'd have 63 visible tiles. So if you have 11 of your most used programs pinned on the taskbar, 63 or more other programs are 2 clicks of the mouse away. I have mine organized by type.

Social | News | Graphics Programs | Games | Utilities

After a few days the position of the live tiles becomes second nature so I can launch something in less than a second: Windows Key > Click

Compare that to this:

Windows7StartMenuvsWindowsXP_thumb.png


On that you have 24 folders visible, so less than half, and you also have things you're looking for hidden inside folders so you need to click the folder to see the programs. Not only that but how often is your program nested inside 3 other folders? EA > Bioware > Mass Effect > Mass Effect.exe

That's a trudge. As you say, you can just start typing the name of the program and then launch it, but that works just as well in the new Start screen so it's a wash in terms of how long it takes to launch something. However, what if you can't remember the name of the program? Not only that but what if the program is some small utility that you can't even remember the name of the company? So now you're randomly clicking on folders from companies you don't instantly recognize hoping to stumble on the program you're looking for. With the new Start screen you right-click and select All Apps and you get something like this:

win8ss2.png


Everything you have installed. MUCH faster at finding that little used app you can't remember the name of.

Not only that but I haven't even touched on the benefits of live tiles. I'll briefly say that one great thing is all the info is, well, live. So when I open my start menu to launch and app I also instantly see other information I might find useful being displayed in real time on each tile.

Less intrusive, and most of all not completely out of line with the desktop design.

It's not out of line. Sure, it works brilliantly as a tablet ecosystem, but it works just as well for the desktop. Yes, it takes up your screen, but it's better organized and easier to use than the Start menu. Once you get used to how it functions it just becomes another task you do on your computer. It's not intrusive.
 
Start the install and after a few screens you'll be able to choose which hdd you want to use (you can safely start it from current Windows desktop, it won't delete anything). When you're there just select your empty drive.

While it's installing it will create a boot manager for you. When you turn your PC on you'll be giving a choice of which OS you want to boot (it's like the 'safe mode' screen if you've ever seen that)

You can change the settings if run msconfig.exe (just type it into the search box) from either version of Windows. It's useful if you want to change which OS is the default one.

Sweet! Thanks for the help. :-D
 
Maybe this has been discussed, but why do the live tiles only update after being opened? For instance the calendar app date is always wrong until I open the app.
 
First of all, you said you've never used it so what are you basing this "feeling" on? Screenshots and videos? Second, as Mr_Zombie said, it's not that I rarely see Metro because I'm actively avoiding it, I actually like it, but I rarely see it because I only need to use it as a launcher maybe 2 or 3 times a day and for that purpose I'm in and out of it in about 2 seconds.
Yes, I haven't tried it yet, no spare partition i have available now, I'll test it out myself the coming weeks.

Now on my screen I have 1 extra row but the same number of columns. Even in that picture and keeping in consideration that they have a number of double wide tiles they have 42 apps visible. Add in the extra row that I see and fill in the blank spaces they have and you'd have 63 visible tiles. So if you have 11 of your most used programs pinned on the taskbar, 63 or more other programs are 2 clicks of the mouse away. I have mine organized by type.
Why do you compare it to the all programs screen? You pin the programs that you like to the start menu, combined with the taskbar, you can easily have the same amount of programs that you can start from your taskbar + the start menu. Beside that, you could have the same style menu, smaller and integrated functionality and design wise in the desktop.

Everything you have installed. MUCH faster at finding that little used app you can't remember the name of.
You still have to scan through the entire list, this could easily be in a desktop environment start menu as well.

It's not out of line. Sure, it works brilliantly as a tablet ecosystem, but it works just as well for the desktop. Yes, it takes up your screen, but it's better organized and easier to use than the Start menu. Once you get used to how it functions it just becomes another task you do on your computer. It's not intrusive.
Well, it is out of line. you can see how the design and idea of it is completely different than the desktop. They look like two distinctly different environments.

All over, it feels it should be either full desktop functionality in Metro, or full desktop functionality to the... desktop. Not taking the time to homogenize the start menu with the desktop just feels like they're not taking the desktop environment seriously. Which I'm not saying is bad, but if you're not taking it seriously, then you have to make sure that your alternative is up to par, and so far I've seen that it's only the case when you're using it very lightly.
 
Maybe this has been discussed, but why do the live tiles only update after being opened? For instance the calendar app date is always wrong until I open the app.

Hmm, that's not normal. Some of the third party apps have shitty live tiles that behave the way you describe, but all of the MS ones work great for me.
 
Why do you compare it to the all programs screen?

You asked:

How is this any different from the normal start menu > all programs feature?

So that's the example I gave. I'm not sure what the percentage is of "regular" users who pin a lot of (or any) programs to the start menu is but I'm sure it's not a very large one.

You still have to scan through the entire list, this could easily be in a desktop environment start menu as well.

Can you elaborate on this? What is your workflow for finding a program you don't remember the name of or the company name?

You pin the programs that you like to the start menu, combined with the taskbar, you can easily have the same amount of programs that you can start from your taskbar + the start menu.

How many things do you currently have pinned to your Start menu?

It's probably easier if you just read the blog post about the changes, he does a much better job of explaining it. All I'll say is that I've been using Win8 as my only OS since the CP and I find the new system faster to navigate and get to stuff quicker than in Win7. This is especially true since Win8 in general is just faster than Win7 overall.
 
When you are searching the Win7 start menu shows more information than the entire Metro screen, they have the font so large, and the space so constricted the titles get clipped. The sorting seems to be broken as well. It is actually less useful and uses more space than the start menu.

It also locks you in Metro at times, not sure if this is just a bug, but when the system starts the windows key won't switch you to desktop also certain UAC prompts get you locked in so you need to click Desktop. The network control panel applets bounce you in between Metro and the desktop and are a mess to navigate (they were messy in W7 as well). UAC cannot be turned off without breaking W8.

If you love Metro and never switch out of it, I can see how you don't mind, but the desktop experience is jarring and not user friendly at all.

I see Metro all the time, I use the Windows key+search string very often while working. Windows Key+path is the fastest way to launch explorer windows. Sometimes I use it to flat out launch programs with parameters like launching notepad on a tempfile that was just created, VS doesn't let you copy C strings from pointers, so I'm left with typing it out while looking at the debugger window. Can't do that anymore. I'll switch to using Windows+R but it was nice to have one press do it all.
 
I have had plenty of hands-on experience and I shit on it too.

The desktop environment has no need for the Metro menu/dash. At best, it will be ignored completely, at worst people will hate on it so much MS releases an update that restores the Start menu.

I just got a Windows computer after being on the Mac OS for a while.

The start menu is really bad. :(

Especially the "all programs" menu. It's cramped and awkward to use. The whole right side of the start menu is full of stuff I never click on (at least on XP it had a use with the run command). Clicking on folders to get to a program is just archaic.

The start menu definitely not something I would call optimal - like the start menu is integral to computing. But it's been around in some form since 1995 and people are used to it.

I like the search box but you don't need that whole goofy menu to use it. Look at Spotlight on Mac. Maybe Metro isn't the right way, but I don't think the start menu is either.
 
It also locks you in Metro at times, not sure if this is just a bug, but when the system starts the windows key won't switch you to desktop also certain UAC prompts get you locked in so you need to click Desktop. The network control panel applets bounce you in between Metro and the desktop and are a mess to navigate (they were messy in W7 as well). UAC cannot be turned off without breaking W8.

The Windows Key isn't a desktop / Start screen button. It's a last opened app / Start button. Gotta open the desktop first.
 

To add, this serves 2 functions. If you're in a Metro app or the start screen it brings you to the desktop environment with everything as it was, ie maximized windows etc. If you're in the desktop environment it works as it used to, minimizing everything and showing you the actual desktop.
 
Of all the complaints people have about Windows 8, the dumbest one that I simply cannot wrap my head around is how the OS naturally scrolls horizontally instead of vertically.

How is this not objectively superior in every single way? The vast majority of screens are widescreens these days. Why wouldn't you naturally have content continue in that direction then instead of vertically? Especially since scroll wheels still work perfectly, how is that a bad thing?


I get that it's jarring and different, but how is it bad?
 
Of all the complaints people have about Windows 8, the dumbest one that I simply cannot wrap my head around is how the OS naturally scrolls horizontally instead of vertically.

How is this not objectively superior in every single way? The vast majority of screens are widescreens these days. Why wouldn't you naturally have content continue in that direction then instead of vertically? Especially since scroll wheels still work perfectly, how is that a bad thing?


I get that it's jarring and different, but how is it bad?

4:3

/s
 
I just got a Windows computer after being on the Mac OS for a while.

The start menu is really bad. :(

Especially the "all programs" menu. It's cramped and awkward to use. The whole right side of the start menu is full of stuff I never click on (at least on XP it had a use with the run command). Clicking on folders to get to a program is just archaic.
You can customise what's shown on the right side of the Start menu.

diffusionx said:
I like the search box but you don't need that whole goofy menu to use it. Look at Spotlight on Mac. Maybe Metro isn't the right way, but I don't think the start menu is either.
You can type the name of an application into the search box as well if you want to. You can press the Windows key on your keyboard, type the first few letters of an app so it pops up, then hit Enter to launch it. It's not that different to using Spotlight is it?
 
This tells me nothing.

I tend not to remember every single tool available in an SDK when it is installed and there are some tools I definitely won't use often but may find a situation where I will need it. It's much easier for me to look at the existing Start menu now to find something that I'm not quite sure what the name of it is or at least see what my options are.
 
I tend not to remember every single tool available in an SDK when it is installed and there are some tools I definitely won't use often but may find a situation where I will need it. It's much easier for me to look at the existing Start menu now to find something that I'm not quite sure what the name of it is or at least see what my options are.

If you start typing and don't remember what program is, you can backspace to clear the box, which then Windows then fills the screen with the All Programs list.

I've found that extremely helpful in Windows 8 and overall better than how Windows Vista/7's start menu is.
 
Of all the complaints people have about Windows 8, the dumbest one that I simply cannot wrap my head around is how the OS naturally scrolls horizontally instead of vertically.

How is this not objectively superior in every single way? The vast majority of screens are widescreens these days. Why wouldn't you naturally have content continue in that direction then instead of vertically? Especially since scroll wheels still work perfectly, how is that a bad thing?


I get that it's jarring and different, but how is it bad?

Scrollbars on the left (in L->R languages) are also objectively superior in every way too, but we know how that turned out.
 
Maybe this has been discussed, but why do the live tiles only update after being opened? For instance the calendar app date is always wrong until I open the app.

I noticed that live tiles works fine until you hibernate the system. At least that's the case with the system on my laptop - both Consumer Preview and Release Preview have this issue. After waking up my laptop tiles don't update until you open the app (sometimes you even have to manually synchronize the app, because it doesn't start synchronizing automatically). It's super annoying. Once I had wrong date on the calendar tile for few days because I haven't opened it :/

The other day Calendar didn't want to synchronize at all. I've added few events and they never appeared on my Google calendar. When I restarted the system, those events completely disappeared. :/

I hope this issue will be fixed in the final version of the system.
 
If you start typing and don't remember what program is, you can backspace to clear the box, which then Windows then fills the screen with the All Programs list.

I've found that extremely helpful in Windows 8 and overall better than how Windows Vista/7's start menu is.

I haven't played with Windows 8 since the first preview, and I know the Start has improved since then, but what does All Programs list show you? Every application sorted in alphabetical order? Or is it grouped like how the Windows 7 Start Menu currently is? I was merely pointing out a use case where simply typing isn't good enough because it assumes you know what you're looking for exactly.
 
I haven't played with Windows 8 since the first preview, and I know the Start has improved since then, but what does All Programs list show you? Every application sorted in alphabetical order? Or is it grouped like how the Windows 7 Start Menu currently is? I was merely pointing out a use case where simply typing isn't good enough because it assumes you know what you're looking for exactly.

Grouped but not nested in folders.
 
I haven't played with Windows 8 since the first preview, and I know the Start has improved since then, but what does All Programs list show you? Every application sorted in alphabetical order? Or is it grouped like how the Windows 7 Start Menu currently is? I was merely pointing out a use case where simply typing isn't good enough because it assumes you know what you're looking for exactly.

It basically shows you the content of start menu (literally, it's the content of "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\" folder), i.e. all apps grouped in folders.

This is how it currently looks on my machine:

I hope that it will be improved in the final version, i.e. that it will either automatically filter executable files only or at least give you the option to do so. Because right now, as you can see on the screen, it also lists various text files or even shortcuts to webpages. There's a lot of garbage.
 
Grouped but not nested in folders.

Can you do sub groups within groups or is there only one level of hierarchy?

It basically shows you the content of start menu (literally, it's the content of "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\" folder), i.e. all apps grouped in folders.

This is how it currently looks on my machine:


I hope that it will be improved in the final version, i.e. that it will either automatically filter executable files only or at least give you the option to do so. Because right now, as you can see on the screen, it also lists various text files or even shortcuts to webpages. There's a lot of garbage.

Thanks for that. I would hope it wouldn't automatically filter but given an option. One thing SDKs like to do is put documentation links within the Start Menu. I'd like that option to be able to find them. The problem I see what that pic is:

1) No subgroups
2) It shows everything as expanded where as the current Start Menu has folders closed by default. It's a lot less noise if you don't have everything fully expanded so you can see what your groups are much quicker.
 
It basically shows you the content of start menu (literally, it's the content of "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\" folder), i.e. all apps grouped in folders.

This is how it currently looks on my machine:


I hope that it will be improved in the final version, i.e. that it will either automatically filter executable files only or at least give you the option to do so. Because right now, as you can see on the screen, it also lists various text files or even shortcuts to webpages. There's a lot of garbage.

You often find yourself launching 7Zip directly? :p
 
When's the app store gonna get fleshed out? Still looking for a great twitter app...

Also, would love to be able to visit the mobile neogaf page on the desktop (because I can use it on the sidebar) but it keeps forcing me to the main neogaf page, any solutions?
 
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