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Windows 8 / RT |OT|

I love the speed of it, and I run it on all my computers, but I am simultaneously warning all non-tech people I know to stay with Windows 7. Part of it is a selfish need to not get constant phone calls asking me how to do simple tasks, but I honestly think the UI is such a hot mess, it's going to get seriously retooled next year. So, in a desire to not truck people through the re-learning process yet again, I'm telling them not to bother.

In fact, my personal nightmare tech support case, i.e. my mother, just bought a new laptop with Windows 7 on it last week. That particular purchase brought a lot of relief. I am even considering stealing her $15 upgrade so she doesn't get any ideas.

I, on the other hand, will be directing my mother to a new all-in-one touchscreen computer running windows 8.

Going to test her on my machine with a touch monitor first, though.

I will set up a new user account for her, have her watch Microsoft's UI introduction video and see how it goes.

She is not a technical person, but she was able to learn how to use her iPad without much instruction, so I don't anticipate that she'll have many issues with the metro environment, which is where she will live most of the time.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
How should they fix this? Stricter application certification? MS shouldn't have given the SDK out to the public before release? MS shouldn't have opened the marketplace up to public submissions before release?

I don't really need to come up with an answer to this. I'm not a business.

Maybe some combination of stricter requirements, more tools and tutorials, more in-store curation, getting preferred secs onboard in advance, not linking the launch of a store to Metro, taking mobile and tablets seriously earlier instead of being a Johnny-come-lately, cash bribes for devs, better continuity between WP7 and W8 or just plain having done better with WP7, more first-party apps doing more stuff...

But again, the answer isn't important. They're selling Windows. They're trying to get app usage. They're competing against iOS tablets. I'm willing to try anything, but it's on my terms--if the answer ends up being that it was impossible for MS to pull off what I'm asking, I'm totally satisfied using other devices from other companies. I have an Android tablet, an iOS tablet, and Mac and Windows 7 devices.
 
I don't really need to come up with an answer to this. I'm not a business.

Maybe some combination of stricter requirements, more tools and tutorials, more in-store curation, getting preferred secs onboard in advance, not linking the launch of a store to Metro, taking mobile and tablets seriously earlier instead of being a Johnny-come-lately, cash bribes for devs, better continuity between WP7 and W8 or just plain having done better with WP7, more first-party apps doing more stuff...

But again, the answer isn't important. They're selling Windows. They're trying to get app usage. They're competing against iOS tablets. I'm willing to try anything, but it's on my terms--if the answer ends up being that it was impossible for MS to pull off what I'm asking, I'm totally satisfied using other devices from other companies. I have an Android tablet, an iOS tablet, and Mac and Windows 7 devices.

I believe they've done most of the stuff you listed (that makes sense). I think they just had to take one in the chin because that's what reviewer's expectation are (to have a sprawling marketplace before launch). The ecosystem is there I believe and the apps will come. I think the OS launch for the Marketplace was handled right. The WP8 launch however is something I can't get behind. There is no open development SDK for this OS five days before its launch. WP8 will launch with essentially a catalog of WP7 applications. One can argue that that ecosystem is more filled in and MS wants people to see the performance improvements based on current hardware as opposed to things that use the new features with no prior comparisons. I personally think it's a little disrespectful and an uncharacteristically bad form for MS in handling a new development platform.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
The quality of apps really isn't there yet. I just grabbed a bunch of stuff at random from the Top Free section of each category, and essentially every app I tried had material deficiencies; no search support (or poor search context), inadequate sharing support, ugly implementations of Metro (particularly weird fonts, weird dropdown widgets, weird or inconsistent button UI), inadequate Live tile support, poor functionality, incredibly ugly in-app advertising, inadequate implementation of side-pinned mode, inconsistent UI, poor grammar/text. Thankfully most didn't have all of these problems at once.

I've also noticed a pretty ridiculous amount of what's gotta be trademark infringement. I'm all about third-party clients, but there are applications basically passing themselves off as official. For example, search Craigslist.

I submitted a lot of 1 and 2 star reviews (as well as a handful of 3 and 4 star reviews). I normally review stuff in the Android Market or iOS Market 3-5 stars.

I mean, the default app stack is fairly good and I have Start8 installed so I can spend most of my time in the blissfully not shitty desktop mode, but still. I know the response would be "Yeah, but it hasn't even launched yet! Just you wait!" but it's kind of like... I already have Windows 7. I already have OSX. I already have iOS. Something launching in 2012 needs to go the extra mile to work well day one, not play catch-up. And while it would be correct to note that Desktop is just as good as ever, the public face of Windows 8 applications is the Windows Store.

That was my impression too when I installed the RTM version and went through the Store. There's so much crap there.

Even Microsoft's apps are pretty buggy/unstable. Soltaire crashed several times for me now (or slow downs once in a while during various flashy animations). Minesweeper suddenly kicked me out of the app during one challenge and then, for some reason, gave me all available medals (bronze, silver and gold).
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I love the speed of it, and I run it on all my computers, but I am simultaneously warning all non-tech people I know to stay with Windows 7. Part of it is a selfish need to not get constant phone calls asking me how to do simple tasks, but I honestly think the UI is such a hot mess, it's going to get seriously retooled next year. So, in a desire to not truck people through the re-learning process yet again, I'm telling them not to bother.

In fact, my personal nightmare tech support case, i.e. my mother, just bought a new laptop with Windows 7 on it last week. That particular purchase brought a lot of relief. I am even considering stealing her $15 upgrade so she doesn't get any ideas.

I don't know, I disagree with you. I think the less tech savvy people will have an easier time. I find it's the so called "power users" that have complained the most about the UI.

As I said in another post my girlfriend is not tech savvy and she gets frustrated easily when she can't figure out how to do stuff but she's had no problems with Windows 8 because all she needs to do is launch her programs. She doesn't care about the control panel or using the Charms bar or any of that. Windows key to go to the Start screen, desktop button to go to the desktop. Alt-tab for switching programs.

On another note Razer has finally updated their drivers so my Naga works properly in Windows 8 again.
 

MooMoo

Member
Hopefully this is the right place to post, but I'm having an issue with the release preview where the time doesn't stay synced. Anyone know a solution to this problem? Had me freaking out throughout the day because I knew time couldn't have possibly been moving that slow.
 

SPDIF

Member
Hopefully this is the right place to post, but I'm having an issue with the release preview where the time doesn't stay synced. Anyone know a solution to this problem? Had me freaking out throughout the day because I knew time couldn't have possibly been moving that slow.

Hmm, that's strange. Never happened to me before. I'm guessing you've tried re-syncing the clock? This is for Windows 7, but it's exactly the same for Windows 8.

http://mintywhite.com/windows-7/7ma...-sync-system-clock-with-internet-time-how-to/

And as you can see in the article, the Windows Time Service may have stopped.
 

MooMoo

Member
Hmm, that's strange. Never happened to me before. I'm guessing you've tried re-syncing the clock? This is for Windows 7, but it's exactly the same for Windows 8.

http://mintywhite.com/windows-7/7ma...-sync-system-clock-with-internet-time-how-to/
Yup, that was the first thing I tried. Unfortunately it seems to go back to being out of sync after a while.

Edit: Oo, didn't catch your edit. I checked the services though and it was running already. I did change the startup type from 'manual' to 'automatic' so hopefully that'll fix it.
 
Anyone know when they're rolling out the release? Would love to be able to install tonight and then play with it tomorrow.

Asking specifically for people with the Windows Upgrade Offer for new PCs
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Anyone know when they're rolling out the release? Would love to be able to install tonight and then play with it tomorrow.

Asking specifically for people with the Windows Upgrade Offer for new PCs
26th, at least on PCs in store. there will be a windows 8 launch event tomorrow though, so maybe you can get it sometime on Thursday off their website.
 

Zizbuka

Banned
Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I did a test, and some googling, and it looks like Win8 doesn't do true multi-tasking? At least not from the tiles interface. Is this true?

If so, that's going to be a major issue, especially for businesses. It looks like they've adopted the tablet version of multi-tasking, which is really task switching. I'll still upgrade my hybrid netbook/tablet, but this would keep me from upgrading my desktop. Especially with multiple monitors.
 

venne

Member
Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I did a test, and some googling, and it looks like Win8 doesn't do true multi-tasking? At least not from the tiles interface. Is this true?

If so, that's going to be a major issue, especially for businesses. It looks like they've adopted the tablet version of multi-tasking, which is really task switching. I'll still upgrade my hybrid netbook/tablet, but this would keep me from upgrading my desktop. Especially with multiple monitors.

No, that's not true.
 

strata8

Member
No, that's not true.

It's true to an extent. It only supports two Metro-style applications running onscreen at the same time. While other apps can perform limited background tasks, they're essentially suspended.

Multi-tasking in desktop programs is still the same though.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I did a test, and some googling, and it looks like Win8 doesn't do true multi-tasking? At least not from the tiles interface. Is this true?

If so, that's going to be a major issue, especially for businesses. It looks like they've adopted the tablet version of multi-tasking, which is really task switching. I'll still upgrade my hybrid netbook/tablet, but this would keep me from upgrading my desktop. Especially with multiple monitors.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/07/improving-power-efficiency-for-applications.aspx
Performing background activities

As we’ve already discussed, developers need to think of how work that was previously done in the background can still be accomplished without impacting battery life. It is easy to ask for multitasking and just enable it, but the downside of this is that if all your apps are always running background tasks then you will never achieve long (or even improved) battery life. In a mobile and constantly connected world of laptops, this is incredibly important. So with Windows 8 and WinRT, we created new APIs to cover background processing for Metro style apps.

Again, your desktop apps will continue to run just as before, but they will also impact battery life just as they currently do (albeit with some improvements we will talk about below).

We set out to achieve a balance between enabling the kinds of rich app capability and multitasking that people expect in Windows, while also being conservative about resource utilization. To do this, we listed out a set of key scenarios we wanted to enable, and set out to achieve each of them in the most resource-efficient way possible. The result is a set of background multitasking APIs, which allow apps to complete an action in the background in a way that is resource- and power-efficient, and allow app developers to focus on what they want the app to do without having to do a bunch of extra work.

We took a scenario-focused approach to enable the most common tasks that apps would need to do in the background. Here is what we enable in the background for Metro style apps in WinRT:
•Playing music
•Downloading a file from or uploading it to a website
•Keeping live tiles alive with fresh content
•Printing
•Receiving a VoIP call
•Receiving an instant message
•Receiving an email
•Sharing content (like uploading photos to Facebook)
•Synchronizing content with a tethered device (like syncing photos)

This set of scenarios is based on common patterns used by developers and common patterns we expect to see. Some of these scenarios end up using the same platform affordance, so let’s walk through each of them, so you can understand the landscape and power of Windows 8:



Scenario

Description


Background download or upload

Accessing and storing content on the Internet is a pretty common scenario for apps. We want you to always have the freshest content already loaded as soon as you switch back to your app. This will be particularly helpful with magazine or news-based apps. Apps can use the new background transfer API to perform uploads and downloads in the background. This API is what we call “fully brokered,” which means that the OS itself performs the upload/download. This takes app code out of the picture, and helps maximize battery life.


Background audio

We still want you to be able to do more than one thing at a time, especially if one of those things is just listening to music. Any media or communications app can play audio in the background. To maximize efficiency, we suspend the app when you pause the audio.


Sharing

If your app is in the middle of sending content to a cloud service using the Share charm, it can complete that operation in the background.


Lock screen apps

Lock screen apps typically need to notify you with the latest information, and this could happen at any time, even when you are not using the app. The most common examples are your email, VoIP, and IM apps. Lock screen apps can deliver notifications and sync your data, even in the background while on battery, and even when the screen is locked.


Printing

You can print documents even though the app doing the printing has been moved to the background.


Device sync

You can synchronize content between a connected device (like a camera) and your PC even though the app is not visible on screen.


Live tiles with Windows Notification Service

Apps can give the impression they are running all of the time (even if they are suspended) by sending push notifications to your Windows 8 PC to provide the freshest content for the app’s live tile.


Scheduled notifications

Apps can notify you of an event at a particular time by either updating a tile at particular time (think: calendar appointments) or by popping a notification up on the desktop reminding you to do something before you leave the office. These events are scheduled by the app, but Windows is responsible for delivering the notification, which helps minimize battery impact.


Background tasks

Apps can run code when certain events occur, such as on a periodic interval, or when you sign in to Windows or an IM service, for example. Lock screen apps can run code every 15 minutes, but non-lock screen apps can register to run code every 15 minutes as long as the device is plugged into A/C power.
 

PG2G

Member
Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I did a test, and some googling, and it looks like Win8 doesn't do true multi-tasking? At least not from the tiles interface. Is this true?

If so, that's going to be a major issue, especially for businesses. It looks like they've adopted the tablet version of multi-tasking, which is really task switching. I'll still upgrade my hybrid netbook/tablet, but this would keep me from upgrading my desktop. Especially with multiple monitors.

I don't think most business will be going too heavy on Microsoft store apps. Initially they are going to be mainly tablet-style apps, made primarily for consumption. Don't really need true multitasking for stuff like that.

Don't see why that should stop you from upgrading your desktop though. You won't be spending that much time on Microsoft store apps on your desktop anyway.
 
Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I did a test, and some googling, and it looks like Win8 doesn't do true multi-tasking? At least not from the tiles interface. Is this true?

If so, that's going to be a major issue, especially for businesses. It looks like they've adopted the tablet version of multi-tasking, which is really task switching. I'll still upgrade my hybrid netbook/tablet, but this would keep me from upgrading my desktop. Especially with multiple monitors.

Metro offers limited backgrounding compared to the desktop, but i think all business scenarios are covered.

You will receive notifications for email, messages, calls... You can send and receive stuff in the background, you can go to other apps while having a voip call... And of course, you can do all that while working on the desktop, even if you don't sidedock anything...
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
How do you search for it? Can't find.
use the search button on the right bar (right corner) and click store. or just start typing either from the start screen and select store or type from the front page of the store.
 
26th, at least on PCs in store. there will be a windows 8 launch event tomorrow though, so maybe you can get it sometime on Thursday off their website.

Thanks but I meant like in terms of what time of day Thursday, since I have the windows upgrade offer, they are supposed to send me a redeem code for download
 

Mobius 1

Member
Bought it via Amazon, awesome price even without the rebate/credit. I will build a PC next month or so, till then it will be running on VMs on my Apple hardware for web development testing.
 

Exuro

Member
Has the MS solitaire collection been crashing constantly for anyone else? That's about three times now where it locks up and restarts, along with it handing when I click on tiles for the medals. It didn't record my 7 board clear in tri peaks :(
 

strata8

Member
Has the MS solitaire collection been crashing constantly for anyone else? That's about three times now where it locks up and restarts, along with it handing when I click on tiles for the medals. It didn't record my 7 board clear in tri peaks :(

It crashed a couple of times for Mr_Zombie. I'm guessing it's a driver problem.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I did a test, and some googling, and it looks like Win8 doesn't do true multi-tasking? At least not from the tiles interface. Is this true?

If so, that's going to be a major issue, especially for businesses. It looks like they've adopted the tablet version of multi-tasking, which is really task switching. I'll still upgrade my hybrid netbook/tablet, but this would keep me from upgrading my desktop. Especially with multiple monitors.

You can use Windows 8 just like Windows 7 but with a glorified Start Screen.

That's basically how I use it at work, but when I'm taking a break I'll use the news and financial apps because they're much better than news through a web browser.

The Desktop has various improvements over 7, so it's still an upgrade.

You also can still view the news through Chrome. That's what's great about the OS is the versatility, especially with hybrids.
 

Kingbrave

Member
I downloaded the release preview and have been using it for a few days. I needed to do a clean install of 7 anyway and I really like it so far. I don't get what the big deal is with the new start stuff. Can we not pre order the 40 dollar upgrade or do we have to wait till friday?
 

Piper Az

Member
I've been using win8 for a day and I don't like how there is no volume control in music or video apps, how there are different settings in Metro and the desktop, AND how Gchat in Gmail in the Metro Internet Explorer logs out when the app is not on the screen...this is just terrible.
 

PG2G

Member
I've been using win8 for a day and I don't like how there is no volume control in music or video apps, how there are different settings in Metro and the desktop, AND how Gchat in Gmail in the Metro Internet Explorer logs out when the app is not on the screen...this is just terrible.

For the longest time I kept using Metro IE for some reason and having to go to desktop IE or Chrome to get certain things to work. Then I stopped forcing myself to use Metro IE on a desktop and have been perfectly happy with Windows 8 ever since.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I've been using win8 for a day and I don't like how there is no volume control in music or video apps, how there are different settings in Metro and the desktop, AND how Gchat in Gmail in the Metro Internet Explorer logs out when the app is not on the screen...this is just terrible.

Just use the desktop versions of all this stuff. A lot of the Metro apps are still pretty barebones. If you go to play an audio or video file just right-click and select Open With and set them to default to Media Player or whatever else you want to use.
 

Exuro

Member
I've been using win8 for a day and I don't like how there is no volume control in music or video apps...
Yeah, it's pretty lame as I like the streaming Xbox Music offers, but not having a dedicated volume meter pretty much makes it useless due to the hassle. Hope they plan on adding one sometime in the future.
 

strata8

Member
Just use the desktop versions of all this stuff. A lot of the Metro apps are still pretty barebones. If you go to play an audio or video file just right-click and select Open With and set them to default to Media Player or whatever else you want to use.

Even better - just uninstall every Metro app. That way you don't need to mess around with defaults. It's just unfortunate that there's no desktop version of the Xbox Music and Video apps.
 

linkboy

Member
Can the tablet/metro stuff be turned off so I can ignore it permanently? Or will I be forced to go through it every now and again to access certain features?

If you want a more classic Windows feel, Classic Shell is about as close as you're going to get. I'm running it on the RP and if I need to access Metro, I do it from the Charms bar on the right side. It also autoboots to the desktop.
 

Troll

Banned
I didn't know you could do this.

search-02.jpg;pv790d1d75280db088


This was my only real gripe about Search in W8.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
I've been using win8 for a day and I don't like how there is no volume control in music or video apps, how there are different settings in Metro and the desktop, AND how Gchat in Gmail in the Metro Internet Explorer logs out when the app is not on the screen...this is just terrible.
They apparently want you to use hardware buttons for volume control (all windows 8 certified machines will comes with it). Luckily, my keyboard has volume controls.
I will pat myself on the back because I already knew about this.
 
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