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Windows 8 / RT |OT|

T

The Albatross

Member
Link Man said:
You probably just need to reinstall the drivers for your trackpad.
Click to expand...

Yeah...
I ended up googling Synaptic drivers and re-installed and now I have mostly the same support. Honestly, though, the sparse interface makes this more difficult than it had to be. Especially given that launching an installer from your tiles app puts it into .. the.. "Desktop App" area, which isn't clear at all.
 
C

chickdigger802

Banned
Steelyuhas said:
They officially said it's coming I believe.

Not sure if it will be for both WP8 and 7.5/7.8 though.
The Windows 8 app is very much still a work in progress.
Click to expand...

it just ain't good for mouse use atm. going from the top of the screen click something, go all the way to the bottom screen to do stuff.

it's pretty much the start screen which is also god awful with mouse.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
chickdigger802 said:
it just ain't good for mouse use atm. going from the top of the screen click something, go all the way to the bottom screen to do stuff.

it's pretty much the start screen which is also god awful with mouse.
Click to expand...
Speed up your mouse. Search for mouse speed or something.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
I'm an IT pro, so i figure out a new windows operating system very quickly.

So i upgraded my laptop earlier with that $15 upgrade offer, otherwise i'd never try it out. I found all my usual tools and figured out how to do my daily diagnostics easily enough on it. Most everything do through command line anyhow.

But within a few hours of upgrading i have installed windows classic shell. That's not to say that metro is total garbage - i'm sure it works great on a tablet. On a laptop or desktop, with a mouse... it sucks. It's cumbersome and it's not needed on a desktop or laptop.

It was nice enough of microsoft to let me log onto just the local account - none of the reviews i have seen mention that. I have zero interest in that app store as i have not needed it in the past 20 years using windows.

It does work rather smoothly, though i have not decreased boot time (though that could be the age of the laptop).

I mostly did this whole thing because i knew at some point i would run into windows 8 in the wild.

Would i recommend this in a business environment? No chance in hell. From my experience the difference between 7 and 8 is minimal on the desktop and laptop side, at least for your average worker.
If they stripped out metro and returned the start button at some point? Yes, i would recommend it at that point.

Would i recommend this in a home environment? If they are coming from an aging XP system and don't have the option of choosing windows 7... yes, i would recommend it then.


My gut feeling is that microsoft will release a "business" or "enterprise" version that is more friendly to desktops and laptops.
 
S

strata8

Member
Duxxy3 said:
My gut feeling is that microsoft will release a "business" or "enterprise" version that is more friendly to desktops and laptops.
Click to expand...

They probably won't. Chances are they'll expand Windows Runtime to support windowed applications + more advanced functions and start to merge the desktop and Metro interface. They can't stay separated forever.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
I love that I can watch Netflix in a Metro app on my second monitor instead of having a Chrome tab open using their silverlight player to play it on a second screen.
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Duxxy3 said:
Would i recommend this in a business environment? No chance in hell. From my experience the difference between 7 and 8 is minimal on the desktop and laptop side, at least for your average worker.
If they stripped out metro and returned the start button at some point? Yes, i would recommend it at that point.
Click to expand...

What advantage does the Start menu provide the "average worker" that you can't do from Metro?
 
T

TrounceX

Member
So what's this about a $15 upgrade offer?

I bought an ultrabook last month so I should be eligible, but I'm not seeing the offer anywhere on MS site...or I'm just blind. Can someone point me in the right direction please?
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
I had no issues doing any of my work today. Pinned my most used programs to the start screen in a nice organized column. Easy!
 
K

Kaladin

Member
BOOOOO for Microsoft taking 24 hours to send out free Windows Media Center codes. That's 24 hours I'm without television.

BOOOOOOOOOOO
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
StudioTan said:
What advantage does the Start menu provide the "average worker" that you can't do from Metro?
Click to expand...

They don't need to be re-trained. For a large enough company that is easily in the millions of dollars of training time and loss of productivity.

Also (on a personal note), i have found zero advantage to the metro style of start menu over the traditional start menu.
Everything is just THERE. It's not hidden in corners or under hotkeys. If i want to do something, i just have to look under the start menu. I don't have to flip flop from metro to normal desktop and back again. I just move my mouse to the bottom of the screen and i have everything i need in one spot.

I see what microsoft is going for. But my stance from last year is the same stance i have this year - metro is not needed on a desktop OS.

I like MANY of the other changes to the OS. But the desktop versions reliance on metro is not one of them.

Thankfully there are ways around it.
 
Y

yn-neko hates a cat

Banned
How does one prevent any program that's installed from automatically pinning itself to the start screen? I'm about to install CS4 and Visual Studios and I don't want the drama to follow :(
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Duxxy3 said:
They don't need to be re-trained. For a large enough company that is easily in the millions of dollars of training time and loss of productivity.

Also (on a personal note), i have found zero advantage to the metro style of start menu over the traditional start menu.
Everything is just THERE. It's not hidden in corners or under hotkeys. If i want to do something, i just have to look under the start menu. I don't have to flip flop from metro to normal desktop and back again. I just move my mouse to the bottom of the screen and i have everything i need in one spot.

I see what microsoft is going for. But my stance from last year is the same stance i have this year - metro is not needed on a desktop OS.

I like MANY of the other changes to the OS. But the desktop versions reliance on metro is not one of them.

Thankfully there are ways around it.
Click to expand...

So you think twirling down folders in All Programs is faster than pinned tiles?

I'm not an IT professional but I'm at my computer working 12-14 hours a day and Windows 8 has sped up my workflow, not slowed it down.

yn-neko hates a cat said:
How does one prevent any program that's installed from automatically pinning itself to the start screen? I'm about to install CS4 and Visual Studios and I don't want the drama to follow :(
Click to expand...

I just unpinned what I didn't need later but if you tell it not to put shortcuts in the Start Menu you shouldn't have anything pinned....I think. I'm assuming so since it populates the All Apps list from the Start Menu folder.
 
D

dejay

Banned
Can't wait to get some of these apps on a tablet.

Xbox Music is a good app (although it stuttered a fair bit on once screen, and I have a quad core PC with 16 GB of ram) but other than that screen it was beautiful. I was digging it through my PC speakers but then I decided I wanted it through my HT amp, so using smartglass I controlled the 360. Such a good experience using the PC to search for stuff on the xobx - it's made my Zune Xbox Music pass and Xbox 360 worth more to me. Pretty much worth the price of admission alone to me.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Windu said:
htpc people. I used this http://www.lmgestion.net/@en-us/4/22/60/68/109/article.asp to customize my media center remote. the big green button is now my windows key. I will probably do some more customizations but that was the main one I wanted. Now I can always get back to the start screen which I can easily navigate with the remote.
Click to expand...
so along with the windows key, I have mapped the charms bar shortcut win + c, the task switcher win + tab, the app bar win + z and tab and esc. With those mapped I can use a lot of the applications with just a remote. pretty cool.

edit: I guess I should also map a right click on there too.
 
D

dejay

Banned
^ Getting Win 8 out for cheap (and some cases very cheap) was a good move for MS. They know the future lies in the mobile space and on touch devices and if everyone is used to Metro, it's natural that they're going to at least take a good look at Metro UI based tablets, hybrids and phones.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
StudioTan said:
So you think twirling down folders in All Programs is faster than pinned tiles?
Click to expand...

Considering that the average employee only uses a few apps to do their job and those applications would be on top under the start menu... yes.

The largest company I've worked at was an insurance group of around 6000 employees. It would be absolute hell for that company to attempt to switch to windows 8. They have a lot of users who are just barely computer literate. Having to go from XP to 7 has been hard enough for them and windows XP and 7 are VERY similar in daily use.

Going from windows xp/7 to windows 8... might as well be teach some of these people quantum physics.
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
There is a huge Surface kiosk at the Westfield mall here in San Francisco. Got to toy around with it, all the people around seemed to be loving it, too. Saw a lot of people buying it and walking away with pretty bags with the new Windows logo on it.

Personally the internals are a bit meh for my taste, will wait for a more powerful version down the road. But it's definitely a huge, huge step for MS.
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Duxxy3 said:
Considering that the average employee only uses a few apps to do their job and those applications would be on top under the start menu... yes.

The largest company I've worked at was an insurance group of around 6000 employees. It would be absolute hell for that company to attempt to switch to windows 8. They have a lot of users who are just barely computer literate. Having to go from XP to 7 has been hard enough for them and windows XP and 7 are VERY similar in daily use.

Going from windows xp/7 to windows 8... might as well be teach some of these people quantum physics.
Click to expand...

So they only use a few programs and are barely computer literate and you think this would be too more confusing for them?

01-windows8_start_screen.png
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I disagree. I find it's the "IT professionals" who complain the most. I think the average person will have a much easier time navigating the OS. All you need to each them is to press the Windows key and where the desktop tile is.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Duxxy3 said:
They don't need to be re-trained. For a large enough company that is easily in the millions of dollars of training time and loss of productivity.

Also (on a personal note), i have found zero advantage to the metro style of start menu over the traditional start menu.
Everything is just THERE. It's not hidden in corners or under hotkeys. If i want to do something, i just have to look under the start menu. I don't have to flip flop from metro to normal desktop and back again. I just move my mouse to the bottom of the screen and i have everything i need in one spot.

I see what microsoft is going for. But my stance from last year is the same stance i have this year - metro is not needed on a desktop OS.

I like MANY of the other changes to the OS. But the desktop versions reliance on metro is not one of them.

Thankfully there are ways around it.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with just about anything you said here.

pushing start and having it change the whole screen and pushing start and getting a smaller menu is not as big of a difference as people make it out to be. I've found people in our organisation barely use the start menu any more (neither do I) without the search bar, it's small, awful and just annoying to use.

If we could cleverly group programs based off group policy to present them in an easy way for our users, I think training time will be minimal.

Office/application changes are by far more jarring for users. Going from office 2003 -> 2010 is way way harder for our users than xp->win7 was. I expect same for 7->8.

Users want to start -> email -> print in most cases (replace email with application x) and then easily switch between them. I don't see this being a problem in the enterprise. Most enterprise applications will just stay desktop on desktops as well, so the only real change is going to be 'when I push start I get the entire screen now'
 
Z

ZombieSupaStar

Member
Your're lucky if the average person knows how to copy and paste. Metro in the enterprise environment will be hilarious. Hopefully I'll have moved onto programming or web development positions by then...
 
D

dejay

Banned
Duxxy3 said:
Considering that the average employee only uses a few apps to do their job and those applications would be on top under the start menu... yes.

The largest company I've worked at was an insurance group of around 6000 employees. It would be absolute hell for that company to attempt to switch to windows 8. They have a lot of users who are just barely computer literate. Having to go from XP to 7 has been hard enough for them and windows XP and 7 are VERY similar in daily use.

Going from windows xp/7 to windows 8... might as well be teach some of these people quantum physics.
Click to expand...

Not all companies are insurance groups. Our company is about to move to a very open office, where light devices will be more productive than trudging around with laptops looking for power outlets everywhere. Hybrid and touch devices that are in the same ecosystem as the regular desktops will be a definite advantage in such circumstances. Having a different interface on the desktop computers would be a necessary 'evil' in that case. In my case it's taken me exactly five hours to get comfortable with it, but I can see the infuriating slowness that some people would exhibit in such circumstances.

There comes a time when people will eventually need to be retrained. Our change from Outlook to Gmail and a change to SAP for our whole office was an indication to me how time intensive these transitions can be, but it's an investment in flexibility in some situations.

But really, in some offices, there is no need at all to change from XP - it's simple and it gets the job done, in which case I'd agree with you. I'm just saying that there are some places that are different.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
StudioTan said:
So they only use a few programs and are barely computer literate and you think this would be too more confusing for them?



I'm sorry I disagree. I find it's the "IT professionals" who complain the most. I think the average person will have a much easier time navigating the OS. All you need to each them is to press the Windows key and where the desktop tile is.
Click to expand...

It is what people have used for the past 10-15 years.

For a new company with a young staff and new touch screen capable laptops and desktops (or hybrid devices)... hey go for it.
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Duxxy3 said:
It is what people have used for the past 10-15 years.

For a new company with a young staff and new touch screen capable laptops and desktops... hey go for it.
Click to expand...

10-15 years and they're still not computer literate? Remind me never to use that insurance company.
 
Z

ZombieSupaStar

Member
StudioTan said:
10-15 years and they're still not computer literate? Remind me never to use that insurance company.
Click to expand...

haha oh man.... you have no idea... I deal with people on a daily basis making at or near 6 figures who are mystified by zip files, or attaching things to an email, or saving something into a different default folder.

I thought it was just a sign of a different time, but now I am seeing younger people (like late teens / early 20s) who are of that "it just works" generation and are totally at a loss when facebook is down, or any sort of troubleshooting is required. Growing up in the 80s and 90s were really a blessing if you were into computers I guess. We just take that for granted now.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
I'm sort of convinced I'm being trolled by the appstore now. Apparently smartglass for xbox is now out on win8 and win phone.

NOT IN MY APPSTORE.

haha, I don't get it. I can install apps from the appstore, so the connection isn't missing... I'm on preview in europe mainland. Anyone other euros tried to find smartglass? I feel like the appstore may not be downloading new application lists or something.
 
S

strata8

Member
catfish said:
I'm sort of convinced I'm being trolled by the appstore now. Apparently smartglass for xbox is now out on win8 and win phone.

NOT IN MY APPSTORE.

haha, I don't get it. I can install apps from the appstore, so the connection isn't missing... I'm on preview in europe mainland. Anyone other euros tried to find smartglass? I feel like the appstore may not be downloading new application lists or something.
Click to expand...

Smartglass has been on Windows 8 for a while now...
 
D

dejay

Banned
catfish said:
I'm sort of convinced I'm being trolled by the appstore now. Apparently smartglass for xbox is now out on win8 and win phone.

NOT IN MY APPSTORE.

haha, I don't get it. I can install apps from the appstore, so the connection isn't missing... I'm on preview in europe mainland. Anyone other euros tried to find smartglass? I feel like the appstore may not be downloading new application lists or something.
Click to expand...

http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-us/app/xbox-smartglass/571b1120-f579-47d3-88c8-a722652643b3

Try getting to it from ^ link.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
catfish said:
I'm sort of convinced I'm being trolled by the appstore now. Apparently smartglass for xbox is now out on win8 and win phone.

NOT IN MY APPSTORE.

haha, I don't get it. I can install apps from the appstore, so the connection isn't missing... I'm on preview in europe mainland. Anyone other euros tried to find smartglass? I feel like the appstore may not be downloading new application lists or something.
Click to expand...
wait you are using a preview version? If so then that is your problem.
 
B

Benjamin1981

Member
The auto update function of the store seems broken for me. I have 12 apps which have an update available. If i select them all and click on install, nothing happens. The Music app for example tells me an update is available, although i tried updating several times. Freaking annoying.

And whoever said to me that Keyboard shortcuts a helpful, you are a genius ;) So much easy navigating the System now.
 
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