Klob is so pissed he's going to try to go a day without making free marketing materials for MS.I've been following the era OT for the cope posts.
Extremely unlikely considering the information we found in leaked internal Microsoft's documents and Phil Spencer openly confirming that the Xbox business is not going strong.
One doesn't say that about a profitable business that's growing.
So, it's better than As Dusk Falls, but not in the same tier as Halo and Gears?"Porting these games?" The original rumor states only one, how many else are being ported that you're aware of?
How many units will XBS sell in 2024 and 2025?
The fact that you couldn’t reply without extra bullshit is your problem.
Fact is it’s going to take a lot to keep Xbox from declining gen over gen. You don’t have to be a “hater” to see that.
The point is that when a product is no longer successful, the options are to either stop the product or change the product.
I missed nothing. I supported the idea of a declination - something you continue to struggle with, evident by your continued refusal to provide numbers to Mibu.Definitely more than the ridiculous ~2.5 million annual average sales that you claim for XSeries in the next years an for a new XBoxNext in its entire life.
What is your prediction? I remember when a little less than a month ago your prediction for 2023 was 5-6 million XSeries and the figures are at least 8+ million...
I think you have missed where the topic of the discussion was..... Definitely not if there will be a decline gen over gen. I'm sure that if you think about it more carefully you might be able to figure it out... unless you agree that XSeries is going to sell at an average of 2.5 million annually in the coming years and that a more than possible (I would say certain) Nextgeneration Xbox console would only have a sales ceiling of 10-15 millions without any option to be better ... .
PS. We are talking about someone who defends that MS is going to stop making consoles even before 2027. And I don't want to go into what was defended two months ago during the acquisition of ABK and the 180° turn of his arguments...
I am still annoyed they discontinued Windows Phone. Was so good...In my opinion the only reason Microsoft has had so many little side projects, like Xbox, is Apple.
They want to have some sort of consumer hardware, just like Apple, that people love and appreciate.
Surface = Mac
Nokia = iPhone
Band = Apple Watch
Zune = iPod
The rivalry with Apple runs very deep in their corporate culture, so unless they go through some massive shift, that’s not going to change.
Xbox is the only consumer hardware product that’s had some success, and if it can operate Xbox at break even, they will run that thing indefinitely as a side project.
So, Xbox has nothing to do with Sony or Nintendo, they just got unlucky that Microsoft happened to find some success in their segment, and now they have to deal with them, which could also be good for business..
I think Microsoft kinda wants to downplay any releases like that on PS platform for now.. Hence the low-key release and outsourcing the publishing on an IP they own. From memory, it's sort of similar to how Sony 1st managed their early PC releases too. Conversely, Switch is perceived in the fandom as a "friendlier" platform, so the thinking is that they'd be more accepting of the idea of porting Hifi Rush. Though judging by the reactions of big Xbox influencers, this is not going down as well as Phil & team envisioned it.I still don't think Microsoft had much to do with ADF's port, there was absolutely no fanfare from them about it, unlike Ori, which was promoted as coming to Switch on the official Xbox news website.
If Hi-Fi is indeed coming to other platform(s), and since it's a internal first party developed game, it will probably be promoted like a proper release.
Definitely more than the ridiculous ~2.5 million annual average sales that you claim for XSeries in the next years an for a new XBoxNext in its entire life.
What is your prediction? I remember when a little less than a month ago your prediction for 2023 was 5-6 million XSeries and the figures are at least 8+ million...
They are not going 3rd party for sure. They learnt lessons from mobile phones that being third party makes you lose control. And especially with Google and Apple being direct competitors to Microsoft. It is not like Office where you don't have competition to a point that even launching on Mac it changes nothing and even beneficial. One of the reasons of Windows Phone death for example Google not allowing (or developing not sure) an app for Youtube. Then you had developers like Instagram openly claiming that they won't develop apps. Without proper ecosystem with hardware, they will begin to rely too much on platform holders. And especially on those who don't run Windows - thus Lenovo, MSI devices are fine and so. But without phone they literally have to rely on regulators in order to put Game Pass on iPhone.For the record, I don't really expect that it's a definite absolute given that Microsoft is going 3P ASAP and dropping Xbox today. There are patterns that they might do it (I personally compared end of Zune vs the last holiday console discounts), but nothing is definite yet.
I don't think them leaving phones was a bad thing for them, they clearly were coming way too late at it and there was no real path to sustainability (hence Insta etc noping out of developing apps, the cost to maintain those apps would have been useless given how bad the adoption was).They are not going 3rd party for sure. They learnt lessons from mobile phones that being third party prevents. And especially with Google and Apple being direct competitors to Microsoft. It is not like Office where you don't have competition to a point that even launching on Mac it changes nothing and even beneficial. One of the reasons of Windows Phone death for example Google not allowing (or developing not sure) an app for Youtube. Then you had developers like Instagram openly claiming that they won't develop apps.
I am still annoyed they discontinued Windows Phone. Was so good...
Clever pics - always the sign of those who can't articulate a position that actually makes sense. Thanks for confirming.
What a little bitch. Emotionally investing yourself in a platform that hasn't really earned that investment is stupid. The moves that Xbox is making now are the moves that they should have been making back in 2015.My dude went from normal to CAPS LOCK in just 15 days
Almost reads like a parody! Can one really be that much of a zealot?What a little bitch. Emotionally investing yourself in a platform that hasn't really earned that investment is stupid. The moves that Xbox is making now are the moves that they should have been making back in 2015.
There is absolutely NO evidence that this is true. if it were MS would provide numbers to back it up. They don't. They talk a lot about revenue, which is all well and good, but they never tell you how much of that revenue is actual profit. For instance, $10 billion in revenue is useless if there are $11 billion in operating costs.Not good news for people who want a perpetual console war. Profit maximization dictates the entire industry, likely outside of Nintendo, is going this route. The future just arrived for Microsoft first as they reconcile with the immense cost of modern games development. People making Sega analogies forget Sega was dying, financially. Xbox, whatever that is, is profitable.
Except before it was pay to get “Free” games, It was MS that introduced pay to play online.While it's true the market will only suffer a max price, when you have less direct completion in a very specific field, prices will go up. And for sure without gamepass there would be no game sub service on PlayStation, just pay to play online like before.
I don't think them leaving phones was a bad thing for them, they clearly were coming way too late at it and there was no real path to sustainability (hence Insta etc noping out of developing apps, the cost to maintain those apps would have been useless given how bad the adoption was).
I think you are really underestimating the impact of Nadella's push for Office to be on nearly every device and OS while pivoting to services instead of products (basically pushing Azure/365 sub services instead of annual Office 20XX), he basically guaranteed that Office stays the prime productivity suite for at least another decade.
You look at how Microsoft is running this gen of Xbox, and it's completely running against his entire business ethos, I personally think that some form of persistent 3P publishing will definitely happen (how else are you going to internally justify the onboarding of thousands of devs that used to make PS/Nintendo products? Narrowing the scope of MS publishing to just Xbox is basically gonna put a ton of them out of a job sooner or later because the volume simply isn't there!)
There is absolutely NO evidence that this is true. if it were MS would provide numbers to back it up. They don't. They talk a lot about revenue, which is all well and good, but they never tell you how much of that revenue is actual profit.
Sorry. Here's a more accurate discription of your position
Except before it was pay to get “Free” games, It was MS that introduced pay to play online.
The biggest reason is that this makes their hardware even more undesirable, because why pay an additional $300-500 to play games you can find on any other ecosystem?I really don’t see a reason not to release games on all available platforms.
The thing is that they could - if they kept it for longer. They of course would not gain the same market share as Google or Apple, but they could still get to 10% at least. With proper integration across windows devices, maybe Xbox and so on + now AI - they could get somewhere. Especially with them supporting android apps on windows even. Maybe it would then encouraged them to work more with handheld more of Windows (that tried with Windows 8, it did not work well but still the idea was solid). They get - for example now - Copilot integrations and so on. And would have a full control over the ecosystem. The potential was there. But oh well. I liked my Lumia though...It had some good ideas, but they were never going to be able to compete with Apple and Google.. too late to the party.
The problem that that Office was already ubiquitous and that's why it worked so well. Same with Azure - one of the reasons of it growth is B2B. Basically both Azure and Office success were due to almost monopolistic control that Microsoft had over this. Same with Teams integrations - without Office 365 it would not have taken off. Everything was a result of a high market share. It is like with Bing now where Apple like "nope nope nope". With Office? What alternative did Apple have? With Azure? A lot of businesses are running on Windows since the immemorial, basically meaning that if you want to go to cloud - business will use Azure due to B2B integrations.I think you are really underestimating the impact of Nadella's push for Office to be on nearly every device and OS while pivoting to services instead of products (basically pushing Azure/365 sub services instead of annual Office 20XX), he basically guaranteed that Office stays the prime productivity suite for at least another decade.
With Xbox it does not (and probably won't) work the same because Xbox's market and mind share are extremely small in comparison to what Windows and Office had. Word, Excel are like everything you think of when coming to documents. Similar to Adobe and Photoshop. Xbox does not have the same benefit. At all. When you need to pay third parties to come to your problem (and let's be real - a lot of the games Xbox is getting right now and did not get in Xbox One era is because Microsoft is paying for that. It was the case with Xbox 360 too though). But leaving Xbox console business immediately erases their ecosystem - on PC people will go to Switch, on mobile - people will stick to App Store / Google Play for most of the part. But I suspect they don't get why Office subs were so successful. Eroding Xbox in favor of bucks from other ecosystem means that people will just go to those systems anyway - on PC Steam is default, in portables - Switch, in home consoles - Playstation. That's all to it.You look at how Microsoft is running this gen of Xbox, and it's completely running against his entire business ethos, I personally think that some form of persistent 3P publishing will definitely happen (how else are you going to internally justify the onboarding of thousands of devs that used to make PS/Nintendo products? Narrowing the scope of MS publishing to just Xbox is basically gonna put a ton of them out of a job sooner or later because the volume simply isn't there!)
Steam and Gamepass on a slick Xbox-branded and silent Windows box for the living room would be awesome.They allow people to purchase their games from steam because they own them and still get the majority of the revenue cut. The majority of games sold on the Xbox platform are 3rd party games. If they enable their console customers to purchase those 3rd party games from a storefront that isn't the Xbox store then they will see zero of that money. It would be the stupidest thing they could ever do and it would make it pointless for them to continue making hardware (especially given the fact that they are not a hardware company).
Crystal ball talk as I saidAs for the discussion around 3rd party launchers etc - the current trend is that 3rd party publishers are now returning to steam (and in general are returning to allowing their games to be on any many PC storefronts as possible - as an example you can purchase EA, Ubisoft and Rockstar games across Steam or Epic's launchers, Sony games are across GOG, Epic and Steam, CDPR's games are on all launchers possible) after they all attempted to sneak away and go it alone with their own launchers. EA returned (with their subscription service as well), Ubisoft have returned, Rockstar have returned, Microsoft have, Bethesda and Activision both did prior to being acquired. I don't know where you're coming up with the idea that anything different to that is happening (or is going to happen).
I'm not moving anything, the fact remains if there was no gamepass, you would likely still have regular ps plus and psnow streaming only. It's not my fault that you are in denial that ms brought competition that forced sony to add new services. It certainly wasn't Nintendo and Sony was very reluctant to do anything.
That's what they almost did though. They decided to shut down the division during last generation, until Phil Spencer came up with the Game Pass / 3 billion gamers pitch.Even if the Xbox division is loosing money, it doesn’t seem to be significant enough, otherwise they would’ve shut it down by now, it’s not like they don’t know how to get rid of projects that are not successful…
I think Xbox has been doing “good enough” for decades and now they finally decided to throw some real money at it and see what happens.
I take it back
I missed nothing.
I supported the idea of a declination -
What numbers?? In this same thread I have pointed out the figure of 40-55 million depending on the strategy that MS has decided in the coming years for its console (exclusivities, hardware review, XSeriesPro?, advancement of the generation to 2026-27?, hardware periodic console?...).something you continue to struggle with, evident by your continued refusal to provide numbers to Mibu.
???Where are you getting 8 million from?
The fact is that I have given numbers several times in this same thread and you have simply acted blind... That said, there is no need to give figures or argue against your predictions. Simply because the seriousness of those figures does not exist.That fact that you refuse to give a number and you are making numbers up says so much about you...
I haven’t lost anything. Unless they can turn a major tide, a decline in the next gen of Xbox is not out of the question. If that’s not the case, answer my original question - what’s going to keep that from happening?You have missed everything then
No, by "supporting him" you are not defending a decline, you are defending that XSeries in the next 4 full years will not be able to add more than 10 million consoles to what it has today and that one more than possible New XBOX NextGen will be unable to sell more than 10-15 million during its entire life... Otherwise I don't know why your impetus was to quote me while I have at no time denied the possibility of a gen-over-gen decline. In fact, quite the opposite and I have described the reasons in this same thread.
What numbers?? In this same thread I have pointed out the figure of 40-55 million depending on the strategy that MS has decided in the coming years for its console (exclusivities, hardware review, XSeriesPro?, advancement of the generation to 2026-27?, hardware periodic console?...).
I repeat, it is clear that you lost the thread in this discussion.
???
Ampere Nov 2023 say 7'6 millons sold trougth. Add December sales ww (600k-1millon) and you have almost 3+ millons vs what you predicted 1 month ago (5-6 millons)
Who’s doing the begging and what are the games in question?I see it's port begging day.
Again from the FTC leak.There is absolutely NO evidence that this is true. if it were MS would provide numbers to back it up. They don't. They talk a lot about revenue, which is all well and good, but they never tell you how much of that revenue is actual profit. For instance, $10 billion in revenue is useless if there are $11 billion in operating costs.
This????
Ampere Nov 2023 say 7'6 millons sold trougth. Add December sales ww (600k-1millon) and you have almost 3+ millons vs what you predicted 1 month ago (5-6 millons)
I make fun of people who dodge basic questionsJust goes back to you don't agree with someone you make fun of them instead of any kind of valid point. Well done.
This chart was (incorrectly) created by Derek. This isn't official.This was from their own internal leaked FTC stuff
I see it's port begging day.
Think of it like Sony’s late PC ports, Microsoft’s games are already on PC so they can’t use the PC for this, so they’ll go to Switch and/or PS.Most get a new console for new games, not old, I am the outlier. If this is only a select few 1st party games, I don't see:
a. The payout, will profit be worth the porting costs?
b. The PR... will xbox fanboys throw a fit (colt eastwood and the like) , bad PR is never good.
c. Will it bring over others to want to check out what Xbox has to offer?
Wtf are those eyesI make fun of people who dodge basic questions
Those are the anti do-me eyes.Wtf are those eyes
LOL again, I wasn't discussing with him the possibility of a gen over gen decline, I was discussing the figures of 10-15 million maximum throughout his entire life that he predicts for a more new Xbox NextGen and (the funniest thing) only based on an assumption "contagion effect" due to future sales figures for XSeries that he invents. I mean, do you agree with those figures?I haven’t lost anything. Unless they can turn a major tide, a decline in the next gen of Xbox is not out of the question.
??? LOL you have the answer and figures in this same thread and quiteIf that’s not the case, answer my original question - what’s going to keep that from happening?
Mibu’s whole point was about a decline (albeit, perhaps a little significant). You laughed at the notion of declination entirely - where this all began…LOL again, I wasn't discussing with him the possibility of a gen over gen decline, I was discussing the figures of 10-15 million maximum throughout his entire life that he predicts for a more new Xbox NextGen and (the funniest thing) only based on an assumption "contagion effect" due to future sales figures for XSeries that he invents. I mean, do you agree with those figures?
Anyway, it's clear that you've lost the entire thread of the discussion or you know it and don't want to admit it at this point.
??? LOL you have the answer and figures in this same thread and quite
I make fun of people who dodge basic questions
???
Ampere Nov 2023 say 7'6 millons sold trougth. Add December sales ww (600k-1millon) and you have almost 3+ millons vs what you predicted 1 month ago (5-6 millons)
The fact is that I have given numbers several times in this same thread and you have simply acted blind... That said, there is no need to give figures or argue against your predictions. Simply because the seriousness of those figures does not exist.