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[Three]

And who in their right mind would buy a cheap Asus "Xbox", when they could just buy a cheap gaming PC and have a gigantic library at hand instead?

DF have been somewhat preparing you for this. "Windows is a hindrance" is going to be a narrative soon enough and there is going to be talk of a separated "xbox platform" to go up against SteamOS I believe, if they go the OEM route.

 

[Ebrietas]

Makes no business sense. If this is about actual Xbox Series consoles made by different manufacturers, then who is going to pay MS the licensing fees to use their brand and proprietary OS for a failed console? MS will keep all of the revenue from the software sales anyway so what is the upside?. Nobody is buying the official MS manufactured Xbox even at fire sale prices so who is buying an even more expensive Xbox made by Lenovo or whoever that is not supported by MS themselves?

If this is just referring to PC gaming devices, then nobody needs the "Xbox" name in the first place. Anyone can make a PC device right now, whether it runs on Windows or Steam OS.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Because it's what they do anyway so this will be an opportunity for them to sell another product.

i just wonder how big this "opportunity" will be, when MS itself has failed to sell their product and damaged the brand in the process. How large will the pie be for
Xbox consoles/handhelds by 3 or 5 companies? Especially when Steam is such a stronger brand with a better reputation.

 

[GHG]

Yeah, this is happening. Honestly, I really cannot imagine this taking off, in part because of the HW manufacturers that are gearing up to make their own 'Xbox' devices.

What is helping push this initiative is simply how 3rd party relations have devolved this year with MS and other publishers. Team Xbox is anticipating far less support than what they get now in the coming years, which they largely pay for anyway, so this is merely a move to enable some form of HW expansion to hopefully shore up support and to stop the current userbase bleed they are dealing with. On the one hand, its a model of approach that has largely worked in the mobile device sector; Google pushing AndroidOS as the largest mobile OS for smart phones being a fantastic allegory.

So, the issue is the trade on performance quality right, and this has always been one of the stronger things a console or platform has in its favor over PC - consistent, uniform performance, guaranteed or vetted performance standards. It isn't a necessarily impossible problem to solve, but this approach invites the massive hardware overhead that plagues Windows OS PC gaming. A service like GamePass, at least, does help make this upcoming launch of PC handhelds more attractive though, simply cause its asking consumers less to invest to enter the ecosystem, so it does have that going for it, but given what the selling power of Game Pass is now for dedicated Xbox HW, not really sure this will help all that much.

The irony is, if this mobile Xbox OS does not allow you to install any 3rd party stores like Steam, then the biggest selling point of these PC handheld hardware - your ability to access your Steam library - goes out the window. The biggest success stories in this HW sector is nearly exclusively the Steam Deck, but the other devices have boasted their ability to let you access Steam through their current Windows OS versions. If an Xbox OS only allows Xbox titles & Game Pass to run on them, then I fear this will have even less appeal than I thought.

Yeh, if these things don't allow people to access Steam (and all the other PC stores) then they are cooked.

I imagine they are stick between a rock and a hard place when deciding how open (or not) to make these devices.

On one hand railroading people towards their own store and gamepass along with keeping them within those walls will ensure they see a healthy chunk of all transactions that take place on the hardware, but on the other hand it would greatly reduce the appeal for consumers, especially given the proposed (rumoured) price bracket.

And then there's the other side of the coin - you make it open, allow people to install steam, access humble choice and stuff like Epic's weekly free giveaways, but then there's a high likelihood that the vast majority of people wouldn't touch their store other than on the occasion they are subscribed to gamepass and there's something they want to check out (in summary, this is basically the current situation at the moment on windows PC when it comes to the gaming landscape). In that situation you might be able to attract a lot more people to actually purchase the hardware provided they don't botch the marketing (maybe even people who have no current affiliation to the Xbox brand/ecosystem), but the pitfall here is the fact that they would be foregoing a high proportion of transactions that take place on the systems.

It will be interesting to see what solution (if any) they come up with.

 

[Griffon]

"Just put an Xbox sticker on PCs. Our sales numbers will look amazing."

 

[DeepEnigma]

No taste or identity.

Jobs stays correct till this day.

 

[AtomicStarving]

Why is that... release on everything lol

 

[mayham2199]

It might take 2 more years but amd is going to have apu's available that are graphics focused like the console ones. That would be the way to get the performance at a good price. Have to see how those turn out.

Really I've always wanted a console-pc and have been wanting to make on for a long time. I just want to get a fast laptop with a busted screen. Take out the board and put it in a custom enclosure. I just know I would take forever doing that and maybe even stall out midway.

You can honestly do this already with a PC. I built one that was slightly larger than an Xbox series X and it was almost a top of the line PC. Cooling might be an issue these days though I'm not sure this was a long time ago I did this.

 

[Bry0]

DF have been somewhat preparing you for this. "Windows is a hindrance" is going to be a narrative soon enough and there is going to be talk of a separated "xbox platform" to go up against SteamOS I believe, if they go the OEM route.

When you say platform, do you think they’d continue having two entirely separate operating systems?

I just don’t think that makes sense. I don’t see any real reason why windows can’t have an Xbox frontend that simply disables any non essential services to reduce overhead. There is so much abstraction in the XDK for Xbox and pc games at this point that I don’t understand why “Xbox os” should even exist as a separate operating system.

 

[TBiddy]

DF have been somewhat preparing you for this. "Windows is a hindrance" is going to be a narrative soon enough and there is going to be talk of a separated "xbox platform" to go up against SteamOS I believe, if they go the OEM route.

I still don't see the business case, to be honest. Windows is a bloated POS in some ways, and I don't think Microsoft would be able to release a 'gaming OS' without including the option to use Office in it. Also, the "Xbox OS" would probably be limited to playing games from the Microsoft Store which is, as we all know, hilariously bad.

Who in their right mind would choose a 3rd party Xbox branded console that relies on Microsoft Store, when you could buy a PC with access to both the Store, Steam, Epic Games etc. for the same price or cheaper?

 

[Crayon]

You can honestly do this already with a PC. I built one that was slightly larger than an Xbox series X and it was almost a top of the line PC. Cooling might be an issue these days though I'm not sure this was a long time ago I did this.

This is going to sound weird, but part of my console-like vision is an integrated board with all the stuff soldered on.

 

[GHG]

DF have been somewhat preparing you for this. "Windows is a hindrance" is going to be a narrative soon enough and there is going to be talk of a separated "xbox platform" to go up against SteamOS I believe, if they go the OEM route.

Throw in the bonus narrative of "consoles are holding back PC gaming" (which will be ironic considering it will come from the same people who tried to tell us the Series S wasn't holding anything back), and I think you are correct.

 

[ADiTAR]

 

[GHG]

You can honestly do this already with a PC. I built one that was slightly larger than an Xbox series X and it was almost a top of the line PC. Cooling might be an issue these days though I'm not sure this was a long time ago I did this.

Cooling is actually less of an issue now than it ever has been for as long as I've been building.

(Provided you go for one of the more efficient AMD CPU's and a 4080/4090 + undervolt)

 

[mayham2199]

Cooling is actually less of an issue now than it ever has been for as long as I've been building.

(Provided you go for one of the more efficient AMD CPU's and a 4080/4090 + undervolt)

Ah good to hear. I haven't really worried about cooling ever since I did that small PC a while back. My other PCs were much larger so I didn't worry about it. Around the time I built the small one AMD had the 290x. I remember it was that card because I also told myself I would never buy another AMD GPU in my life.

 

[King Dazzar]

Aren't there any licensing constraints when opening up third party stores/digital libraries to new hardware? Surely the content owners (publishers), have clauses before allowing their product to be used on any given store?

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

I said this a long time ago. That Microsoft should have gone completely third party. The steam machines would have been more of a success if they were XBOX devices.

 

[GHG]

Ah good to hear. I haven't really worried about cooling ever since I did that small PC a while back. My other PCs were much larger so I didn't worry about it. Around the time I built the small one AMD had the 290x. I remember it was that card because I also told myself I would never buy another AMD GPU in my life.

That would have been quite a challenge in a SFF build, if I remember correctly those things ran hot. I was running 2 660 3GB cards in SLI at the time and was itching to upgrade but decided to wait another generation until the 980ti arrived.

Aren't there any licensing constraints when opening up third party stores/digital libraries to new hardware? Surely the content owners (publishers), have clauses before allowing their product to be used on any given store?

If its standard windows under the hood then there will be no issues.

 

[onQ123]

i just wonder how big this "opportunity" will be, when MS itself has failed to sell their product and damaged the brand in the process. How large will the pie be for
Xbox consoles/handhelds by 3 or 5 companies? Especially when Steam is such a stronger brand with a better reputation.

Just think of Xbox Consoles as Google Nexus tablets, they failed but other companies continued to succeed with their Android Tablets.


Samsung could easily make a better Xbox than Microsoft

 

[mayham2199]

If its standard windows under the hood then there will be no issues.

How do they port everyone's games though if it's a windows license they are using? Not all publishers have or will give Xbox the ability to port all Xbox users games to windows licenses. I think it's possible if they go this route that not everyones library gets ported over.

 

[Sebastian1295]

How would any third party company make money off of this exactly? And i feel like this would end in disaster anyway because if someone buys one of these third party maker consoles and it breaks down then the repair process is going to be a migraine in waiting. Nothing about this makes any sense profitability wise nor risk wise.

 

[kikonawa]

This means the end is near tbh.

 

[King Dazzar]

If its standard windows under the hood then there will be no issues.

I'd be interested in knowing where there are limits or if there really aren't any.(which I'd be surprised) But OK, lets say there arent any. So Xbox on an XSX, suddenly add Steam store to the UI. Sony could surely say to Steam, OK we're now mandating every one of our games requires our own aps log in. Or they could say, we're withdrawing our product from your store front.

 

[XXL]

And as @R3TRO mentioned it was part of the infamous discord leak.

The prophecy is coming true.

This leaker is a fucking legend.

Best leak of all time.

 

[Pop]

Have heard this for literally years

Hey maybe one day you guys will get it right

Lets all hope together

Just partner with Steam already and make a PC hybrid box for 1200

 

[GHG]

How do they port everyone's games though if it's a windows license they are using? Not all publishers have or will give Xbox the ability to port all Xbox users games to windows licenses. I think it's possible if they go this route that not everyones library gets ported over.

They won't, but that's why they are currently scrambling to get as many games as possible added to the xbox/windows store with a play anywhere license:

The 400 new games include titles from Japanese studios like Kemco and Kairosoft, alongside games like The Invincible by Double 11. More than 100 of these new titles are also Xbox Play Anywhere, so if you buy the Xbox console version then you can play the Xbox PC version too. “Universal Xbox ownership, as well as universal cloud saves on Xbox, and cross-play between Xbox versions on console and PC (and other platforms, at the developer’s discretion) are awesome features players love,” says Charla.

Microsoft wants to make the Xbox app the home of PC gaming

An interesting move from Microsoft.

www.theverge.com

For everything else they don't manage to find agreements for in time, there's always Xcloud I guess.

 

[SneakersSO]

Yeh, if these things don't allow people to access Steam (and all the other PC stores) then they are cooked.

I imagine they are stick between a rock and a hard place when deciding how open (or not) to make these devices.

On one hand railroading people towards their own store and gamepass along with keeping them within those walls will ensure they see a healthy chunk of all transactions that take place on the hardware, but on the other hand it would greatly reduce the appeal for consumers, especially given the proposed (rumoured) price bracket.

And then there's the other side of the coin - you make it open, allow people to install steam, access humble choice and stuff like Epic's weekly free giveaways, but then there's a high likelihood that the vast majority of people wouldn't touch their store other than on the occasion they are subscribed to gamepass and there's something they want to check out (in summary, this is basically the current situation at the moment on windows PC when it comes to the gaming landscape). In that situation you might be able to attract a lot more people to actually purchase the hardware provided they don't botch the marketing (maybe even people who have no current affiliation to the Xbox brand/ecosystem), but the pitfall here is the fact that they would be foregoing a high proportion of transactions that take place on the systems.

It will be interesting to see what solution (if any) they come up with.

I think the larger question that needs to be asked is - how big even is this market?

Valve is a different animal in this regard. Clearly, Valve has seen that there is a solid enough use case for this that both helps naturally extend the reach and dedicated use of SteamOS, and ensure devs are supporting SteamOS when making their Steam Builds to enable Native Deck support, which loosens the grip that WindowsOS has on gaming in the PC space. As you pointed out, the benefit of the GP approach and even just extending the point of entry into the Xbox Eco by making a handheld version of the XboxOS that other folks can utilize is that it cuts off potential PC-app access, like Steam, and really - this is a tiny market in general right.

As of earlier this year, Asus ROG Ally, according to Asus, has sold < 100k units World Wide. The Steam Deck, even with a generate estimate, is probably < ~5m sold WW. Its quite clear that for folks interested in a PC handheld, Steam access is a big part of that, so if the tradeoff is heres XboxOS but no Steam access, that kinda kills the biggest selling point of these things right now. And as you pointed out, the big profit strategy of the Xbox Eco is to get folks through the door, then monetize users via getting a % cut on transactions through their storefront.

I'm interested in seeing the attempt, but honestly, this feels like a non-starter without Steam. Valve doesn't mind Steam Deck sales being slow and steady, and its the right approach given what their goals are versus their starting position. Slowing expanding out Steam and getting folks used to accessing their library in non-Windows OS setting is a slow battle, but one that they can easily chip away at while not compromising the core of their business - the Steam store front itself.

 

[XXL]

DF have been somewhat preparing you for this. "Windows is a hindrance" is going to be a narrative soon enough and there is going to be talk of a separated "xbox platform" to go up against SteamOS I believe, if they go the OEM route.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Just think of Xbox Consoles as Google Nexus tablets, they failed but other companies continued to succeed with their Android Tablets.


Samsung could easily make a better Xbox than Microsoft

in terms of hardware, I get it. I'm talking about branding, differentiation between devices, marketing, and of course price...just overall appeal. Steam vs Xbox. (especially with a Windows-based OS).

 

[GHG]

I'd be interested in knowing where there are limits or if there really aren't any.(which I'd be surprised) But OK, lets say there arent any. So Xbox on an XSX, suddenly add Steam store to the UI. Sony could surely say to Steam, OK we're now mandating every one of our games requires our own aps log in. Or they could say, we're withdrawing our product from your store front.

Steam is x86/64 and wouldn't work on an Xbox Series X or anything other than a machine that's running full fat windows under the hood. And even if you did manage to get the app running, many games require frameworks to be installed prior to the initial boot, and many of these won't run/install on a machine that isn't running windows.

What I think a lot of people don't realise is that even though both Steam and the windows store/Xbox app can co-exist on a single windows install, they are two very different ecosystems from a functionality standpoint. Steam and all the games that run through it are x86/64, while the windows store/Xbox app (and all the games you launch through it) are appX. The same rings true for everything else that isn't the xbox/windows store.

 

[ReBurn]

Might as well just buy a PC and be done with it.

 

[Holammer]

With SteamOS and Steam Machines lurking around the corner? Why not.

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[PSYGN]

Xbox Stage 4 (Codename: Metastasis)

 

[Brucey]

All those third party manufacturers really want in on the free-falling Xbox console sales pie?

Depends how many millions MS/Xbox are willing to spend for marketing and support. Either way should be way cheaper than developing their own.

 

[Thebonehead]

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Will the Xbox run Steam OS? I'm assuming there's a requirement to use Windows here in which case uh gaming PC's already exist just fine without some stupid Xbox branding

 

[Laptop1991]

Hell of a financial risk if the sales don't exceed costs, and will they be walled off unlike a PC and tied to just Microsoft software.

 

[Zelduh]

Microsoft having their own console has always felt redundant since they already have PC. The holy trinity should be Nintendo, Sony, and PC. Xbox makes no sense

 

[mayham2199]

Microsoft having their own console has always felt redundant since they already have PC. The holy trinity should be Nintendo, Sony, and PC. Xbox makes no sense

The thing is MS doesn't really have PC that's the problem. Valve has PC. Do you honestly think a PC windows user is as valuable to Microsoft as a Xbox console user?

 

[Atrus]

I doubt this is referring to consoles. The XBOX brand is dying on Microsoft consoles to the point I doubt an ASUS XBOX has much of a market to tap much less grow even if it was a Series X Pro brought to you by ASUS.

 

[mckmas8808]

 

[T-0800]

There’s been other rumours that they won’t be sold in stores....

How is that any different to now?

 

[kevboard]

Will the Xbox run Steam OS? I'm assuming there's a requirement to use Windows here in which case uh gaming PC's already exist just fine without some stupid Xbox branding

maybe they partner with Steam to make a gaming focused Windows? who knows

they already got Home Edition and Professional, why not a Gaming Edition?

 

[mckmas8808]

From everything they are saying this is $999 minimum. Which IMO isn't so bad but if I was getting stuck with basically a PC I'd just build a PC.

$1000 is DOA man. We all know that lol.

 

[Gamezone]

Hey ms....Just hire some absolute child genius to get xbox console apps running natively in windows and let me sign into my pc as an "xbox"

K thanks, bye.

This is obviously genius and not very confusing, yet still something they won't do.

 

[DeepEnigma]

$1000 is DOA man. We all know that lol.

Wonder if we will hear…

“If you’re gonna spend $1K, why not spend $3-400 more and build a PC” narratives…

Like we did a few months ago.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Gestridens & SneakerOS strike again.

That discord never missed.

Facts.

Remember when everyone was trying to discredit it and say it was FUD (especially "certain" places)?

Oh it's been beautiful to see them all become gluttons for crow.

 

[yogaflame]

 

[nikolino840]

You'd be surprised.

They all partnered up without much resistance for the Windows Mixed Reality headsets, Microsoft already have the relationships necessary to make this happen.

If you see the xbox documentary, microsoft already asked to third parties to build consoles..but the money comes from the software not from the hardware