StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It seems he builds his own personal library of screenshots from forum posts he's done over the decades. lol
The only gaffer ever to upload a decade old screen grab from Beyond 3D to post it here.
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[Windows Central] Microsoft is exploring options around letting third-parties build Xbox-branded devices
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
- Rumor
The only gaffer ever to upload a decade old screen grab from Beyond 3D to post it here.
PatientGamer
Member
Tbh, this is probably a strategy I can commend them on. They need to get 'Xbox' in everyone's hands somehow, getting the devices into people's hands is arguably the best way to do that.
I actually do this on the fly besides the last 2 screen shots I grabbed yesterday to use today
Dick Jones
Gold Member
If third parties can make bank then why would MS give it up (Xbox console). I have doubts on why anyone would rationally make consoles for a brand where consoles sales have flatlined.
TheGodfather07
Member
Seems like a silly idea. Who is gonna want to buy these?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Why would you look at 10 year old posts from your Beyond 3D account to post on gaf?
Games Industry
Discuss more industry related topics in this dedicated gaming industry sub-forum.
forum.beyond3d.com
Everyone if Google doesn't reentered the race & snatch up the casuals
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Because it had information linked to what's going on right nowWhy would you look at 10 year old posts from your Beyond 3D account to post on gaf?
Games Industry
Discuss more industry related topics in this dedicated gaming industry sub-forum.
onnextflix5
Member
I would be surprised if there is any Xbox fans left after they leave the hardware to third parties 
IFireflyl
Gold Member
It's inevitable, right?
Introducing The PissBox Series 1.
That would actually be the best thing to happen, no more fanboys trying to control them like they owe them something personally.
Xbox would love to be in the position Android is in right now.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well luckily, tech among the industry and different pricing segments is a lot more capable (even at the low end) and homogenous than it was in 1993.
Yeah, especially if they are 3P OEM devices; they will be priced to where the OEM makes upfront profit on the hardware.
Easy way to picture it is: if PS6 releases at $599, then an Xbox device of equivalent performance from a 3P OEM is probably going to cost $899, possibly even more depending on non-essential bonus features (multi-monitor support for example).
That's how much the margins have to be in order for it to make sense to OEMs.
Yeah and the after-service part is something MS would have to take into consideration. There is still going to be the expectation these offer console-like consistency, especially if they are going to leverage Xbox OS for the licensing push rather than Windows outright (since Xbox OS is more suited for a console-like gaming experience than Windows ATM), and if OEMs are going to be scattershot in how they handle that, then Microsoft has to be the one who tends to the after-market support.
After all, the reputation of these devices will still fall unto Microsoft, especially if they are substandard, so it's not something they can risk else the initiative as a whole will fall apart.
This is why I am still under the impression that MS will still define some type of specification blueprint, and handle aspects of the hardware in-house. If they're smart about it, they'll standardize everything on the hardware side (including sourcing) so that OEMs can work with some flexibility in aspects of the spec. For example, adjusting system RAM in fixed allotments, upclocking or downclocking the CPU & GPU within a certain range (or if it's an APU, the CPU & GPU components separately), enabling/disabling shader cores, etc.
So ideally on the hardware side, MS would still need to do R&D similar to a console; just let OEMs tinker with settings per component in what works for their devices.
We'll see. It's definitely possible and I won't put it past MS to completely screw this up while letting everyone (including Valve) eat their lunch.
I'm just not on the thought it's a complete loss, yet.
Good points, which is why I'm not sure if MS are leading with Windows OS or Xbox OS on this, but realistically, it should be the latter. They can just extend Windows functions through to Xbox OS for any Windows applications that'd need them, if they are thinking of things like alternative storefronts or use of (approved) Windows applications.
Windows itself just isn't probably in the best spot to try pushing this strategy through, it's probably 10 years too early on that note. Xbox OS, OTOH, is pretty well-suited for the task, even if it has its issues in some aspects compared to PlayStation's OS (though it has features some feel PS should add, like Quick Resume). So I don't see a reason they should rush Windows to fill that role so soon if they have so much work to do in making it a truly viable gaming OS compared to PlayStation's or Steam OS, and they already have Xbox OS to satisfy that need.
And again, they can make Windows programs functional in Xbox OS just by extending kernel and utility features in some protected space.
Yeah, whether they like it or not, these devices will be DOA if they don't offer native support for alternative storefronts. And, again, that's actually why I think Xbox OS would be the smarter option for them. There's no expectation on MS's end to allow dual-booting if they go with Xbox OS. If they provide access to alternative storefronts, they can at least do a soft-subsidization through Game Pass, as Game Pass and Xbox are tied at the hip.
So where some models tie access to other storefronts through a Game Pass contract, and they're priced cheaper because of that. But, other models remove that requirement; in doing so though they'll cost a good deal more (need to get their money upfront).
For a traditional console, Xbox's numbers this year are horrific. But if it were something outside of that business model...the numbers actually wouldn't be that bad.
Of course, that'd assume they weren't losing money on the hardware and what-have-you, but maybe that's actually part of the reason they didn't bother with price cuts as much this holiday season; maybe they want to see what the demand is with the current devices at current prices, and extrapolate what demand could be for devices offering something like what is being rumored with these new devices.
IMO that's actually one of the ways MS will screw this up: just going with off-the-shelf PC parts, throwing in some hackneyed "gaming UI" for Windows that's not particularly efficient, slap an Xbox logo on it and call it a day.
That won't do anything in convincing PS or Nintendo gamers to pick up an Xbox as a second system; worst yet it'll likely look like a substandard solution compared to what Valve will be doing with their own Steam devices & partnered with OEMs themselves.
If MS want to remain relevant in hardware in any way, they can't risk phoning it in but maybe they don't care? Maybe they do want out of hardware? Who knows
Dorfdad
Gold Member
It seems like there’s a lot of negativity towards Microsoft here, but many of you own PCs and use Windows to play games. It’s a bit puzzling why you’d criticize a company that’s so integral to your gaming experience. They’re planning to set requirements for devices to ensure that all future Game Pass and Xbox games will work and support all their features. Some of these requirements will be proprietary, which means developers will need access to certification them to sell their products. On the other hand, the new OS is expected to be gaming-focused, streamlined, and resource-efficient. Fingers crossed that it turns out to be a hit!
They are they worlds largest game publisher now as well!
They are they worlds largest game publisher now as well!
King Dazzar
Member
Thanks. Yeah I think I confused it, as I was coming at it more from a contractual restriction side of things. Rather than technical.
Forgive my ignorance. But now you mention x86 and x64. Isn't that just to do with 32bit vs 64bit CPU's? And isnt the Xbox OS running on a modified/stripped down version of Windows anyway, that might be easily modified to cater for both worlds? Or the other way aroudn where by a modified version of Windows, can be modified to run the Xbox OS too. But you make a very good point regardless in terms of merging game compatibility across the two OS's.
You know your stuff, so how does this work? They just licence Xbox Live and the OS to whoever pony up the cash to do OEMBOX Series? There are going to be benchmarks, guidelines on set of specs or it's free for all and whatever chinese knockoff brand can assemble a switch level hardware and attach the Xbox logo to it?Exploring
CLW
Member
Is there a difference to you between a “dead brand” and a GIGANTIC corporation keeping a brand “alive” by simply dumping its $$$ earned elsewhere to keep it going
GHG
Member
There's a typo in that post you quoted BTW, it should read appX, not Xapp (xapp is actually Linux).
Yes x86/64 are different instruction sets for 64 and 32 bit processors. When we were transitioning over to x64 lots of games would ship with executable files for both. X86 is legacy now and only used by older titles. All PC games on windows (outside of the windows store/Xbox app) are either x86 or x64.
Microsoft themselves really want to push appX (for all intents and purposes, this is what was formerly known as UWP) - software in this wrapper is heavily locked down and does not behave in the same way that a standard x86/64 executable would in terms of how it is able to access and communicate with the OS and hardware. The reason they pushed for this? If you want to use it you're forced to publish the app/game via their store and nowhere else, if it had caught on then it would have enabled them to completely control windows and lock it down.
Xbox consoles can run appX files (I suspect that underneath the hood the Xbox OS is actually just a highly customised version of Windows that if it existed as stand-alone would be completely locked down to the windows store), but not the standard executable files that would enable you to run standard windows software like steam and the games that ship there.
This is the section on play anywhere in the licensing agreement (the Microsoft store is what's mentioned here):
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More like a "This is an Xbox" label
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Y'all out here pretending Google doesn't do this sort of similar merged strategy with Android, Pixel handsets, Samsung, devices, OS, apps etc etc etc.
The rhetoric that Xbox cannot expand in ways different to Sony or Nintendo is stupid.
One can reasonably argue the cross platform nature and recent years of manoeuvring from Xbox with their ecosystem, acquisitions and openess has poised them for this option.
The rhetoric that Xbox cannot expand in ways different to Sony or Nintendo is stupid.
One can reasonably argue the cross platform nature and recent years of manoeuvring from Xbox with their ecosystem, acquisitions and openess has poised them for this option.
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mayham2199
Member
They were forced into this option. It’s there best option at this point.
We all understand what android did but they aren’t the same product. I think even MS knows this will lead to even less console sales and they are ok with that.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
TheTony316
Member
DOA.
Who's this for anyway? Too confusing for the average console player and too limiting for the PCMR.
Who's this for anyway? Too confusing for the average console player and too limiting for the PCMR.
Actually this was a goal & Kinect was going to help them reach the market they was going for but the Hardcore fans that they used to get to where they were at was pissed off so they backed away from their plans but now that Xbox One X & Series X has shown them that the hardcore market isn't so big anymore they're gonna spread out .
You do understand that the kids coming up are tablet & phone babies right? They're not confused about anything. They will download their games & play them anywhere they can.
And they don't want to pay for every game they play but they will spend even more money buying silly stuff while playing these supposed free games as long as they have virtual money to spend.
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Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
That's where our opinions differ, you say forced I say they want the larger market regardless. Why limit themselves to their own hardware in any scenario?
Apple stick to their own to great success, much like Nintendo or Sony.
Google are open to great success, much like Xbox is looking to do. MS have a more open nature in a lot of what they so these days e.g. Windows/OEM, Azure etc.
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ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
People that click with the ads:
Enthusiasts if this beast is in 25/26
Xbots if msft can tie their entire console ecosystem to pc and provide permanent bc.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
Garbage.
who in their right mind would buy an Alienware "Xbox", when they could just buy a true gaming PC and have a gigantic library at hand instead?
How can this be commercially competitive? the 3rd parties need to make a profit, this is passed on to the consumer.
no exclusive games
games on the ps5
Honestly that's a lie, MS executives are not imbeciles.
who in their right mind would buy an Alienware "Xbox", when they could just buy a true gaming PC and have a gigantic library at hand instead?
How can this be commercially competitive? the 3rd parties need to make a profit, this is passed on to the consumer.
no exclusive games
games on the ps5
Honestly that's a lie, MS executives are not imbeciles.
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ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
Disagree . It’s about the message. Once average joe finds out that games like Fortnite/madden/gta/cod can be played on alternative devices things get interesting. This will be a problem for Nintendo & Sony.
Recall the pspro exists to minimize enthusiasts going over to pc.
Msft doing pc vs Mac ads but hybrid vs single ecosystem will be the way.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
so they will all be treated collectively as ''xbox'' and rejected in the same way the xbox is rejected today.
simple as that.
ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
3rd parties will always get their cut. Unless acquired via acquisition
Correct no exclusives since ps mp = d1, ps sp = 1yr later, Xbox day1, Nintendo = torrent.
Same games as ps5 but graphically superior
Game changers :
Mod support
Gp pc : will gpu = gppc price?
Xbox bc W msft upscaler ( 1 can hope)
Possibly illegal:
Merging of Xbox is into windows for full bc & making it the default windows gaming store ( yes w pc/mobile games).
TheTony316
Member
You'd be surprised.
People confused the Series X with the One X in the beginning of this gen.
Ashamam
Member
Too early to tell. Maybe 'Alienware' come up with a nice easily upgradable variant. Maybe they make the case out of cardboard and sell it at cost. Who knows. I imagine people will make their decisions once they see what is on the market and how it all interoperates. I've ditched Xbox this gen after having a Series X but I'm certainly not ruling it out next generation even though I am generally favourable towards PS.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
doa simple as that.
This will never be competitive, price x performance. It's not a PC, it's not a console.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
I realized that you like Xbox but understand, some ideas only work on an abstract level but not in reality.
read this thread
Screen on the controller what do you think about it in 2024 ?
As we all know to date, almost 2025, only the Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo Wii U have had controllers with a built-in screen. VMU - The vmu is completely inspired by the 1996 phenomenon, the Tamagotchi. There were a few reasons why Sega created vmu First, they couldn't make internal memory...
It's nothing new in the industry what MS will do, believe me it will sell less than the Dreamcast
a traditional console like xbsx at least sells like the N64.
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bitbydeath
Member
That’s already possible and a lot of kids already play on alternate devices like PC and iPads.
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Ashamam
Member
I just think the pendulum has swung a little to far on the prognosticating side. Xbox have comprehensively stuffed the generation no doubt, they fail to hold their leadership accountable meaning I have serious doubts about their ability to execute or even conceptualize a competitive plan BUT they have deep pockets, an install base that kind of gets overlooked in the stream of negative (self induced) news and have the potential to leverage their OS chops. Maybe.
In other words its too early to just call it as a loss for Xbox next generation when we don't actually know (at best we have a direction) what will deliver, hardware or software. eg: maybe the third party badging is actually applied to PC's. Just PC's built to a restrictive specification. Maybe Xbox helps with costs through commercial leverage of components with suppliers. I could see MS using Xbox (branding) as a way to simplify PC prebuilt purchases for the masses for example.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Anybody who thinks this will succeed is highly delusional.
This will be an even bigger failure than Xbox Series X|S.
This will be an even bigger failure than Xbox Series X|S.
Radical_3d
Member
Ah, the dawn of the 700$ SX…
Stuart360
Member
To be honest i find it more cringe when you have people on here saving multiple years old posts from OTHER users, so at some point in the future they can post it in a 'gotcha' moment.
I mean thats just cringe, and a little scary.
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Apple video game console, the Pippin, was actually open. Third parties could get a license to build and sell compatible models. Bandai made a few. The whole thing ended as a big failure.
Apple Pippin - Wikipedia
Philips can return to the console market, they did it so well the first time, they need to do it again...
But seriously, in order for other equipment manufacturers to be interested in your products, you need to make a very good offer, show that it can bring additional profit on top of what they are already earning, plus the brand itself must be attractive. And I don't see yet how Microsoft can do this, make an analogue of Netflix and stream via the cloud to TVs. Yes, it's possible, but who will be interested in this. Launching production and making new hardware under license is not a cheap pleasure and the offer must be really good for this to happen and I don't see such an offer from Microsoft yet.
But seriously, in order for other equipment manufacturers to be interested in your products, you need to make a very good offer, show that it can bring additional profit on top of what they are already earning, plus the brand itself must be attractive. And I don't see yet how Microsoft can do this, make an analogue of Netflix and stream via the cloud to TVs. Yes, it's possible, but who will be interested in this. Launching production and making new hardware under license is not a cheap pleasure and the offer must be really good for this to happen and I don't see such an offer from Microsoft yet.
Taur007
Member
I know you live in la la land but to be top 3 in any competitive niche automatically makes you valuable, if apple, Google or Amazon thought they had a real chance they would have done it already
You do understand that Google , Amazon & Apple have bigger software markets than the consoles right?
Facebook is actually casually taking Xbox Console spot with Quest right now & if they really wanted the console market a QuestTV could eat the market up right now.
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