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Windows Phone 7 |OT|

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StudioTan said:
Can't speak for the 3GS but upgrading to iOS4 on my 3G was the end of iOS for me. It ran like molasses. Glad I switched though, I much prefer the W7P OS.
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There's no question about that, but that situation didn't repeat itself with iOS 5 and the 3GS.


Greyface said:
What I think he meant to say is neither iOS5 nor iOS4 on the 3GS is as smooth as the WP7/7.5 on any Windows Phone.
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That's…kind of obvious? The 3GS is slower than any Windows Phone hardware wise apart from the GPU. Half the RAM and half the CPU speed.
 
brotkasten said:
He's running the supersite for Windows. What do you expect? And lets not forget that he teared MS a new one between the RTM and Mango release. He's no Gruber.
Click to expand...

Actually he's worse because he makes money writing books about the things he talks about on his site.

On another note, Isn't it hilarious to see the chief of Android design at Google mock MS and Apple's design chops with regards to their mobile OSs?
 
giga said:
That's…kind of obvious? The 3GS is slower than any Windows Phone hardware wise apart from the GPU. Half the RAM and half the CPU speed.
Click to expand...
And the interfaces for both OSes are entirely GPU driven, aren't they? "dog slow" is a tad hyperbolic but I can see how he'd experience that subjectively jumping from the wp7 to a 3GS device. The 3GS and the available WP7 devices are in the same price range right now and if Apple is still selling the 3GS I don't see why it's wrong to compare the two.


shantyman said:
Actually he's worse because he makes money writing books about the things he talks about on his site.
Click to expand...
? Not sure what you're getting at here.

shantyman said:
On another note, Isn't it hilarious to see the chief of Android design at Google mock MS and Apple's design chops with regards to their mobile OSs?
Click to expand...
Duarte's previous UI design products speaks for itself and gives him license to shit on anybody and everybody. Apple copied lots of Android for iOS5 and Microsoft copied webOS for multitasking in Mango. The improvements to Android in ICS don't look half-bad, especially given the constraints of the platform. That said, I disagree with Duarte about Metro looking like lavatory signage :P.
 
shantyman said:
On another note, Isn't it hilarious to see the chief of Android design at Google mock MS and Apple's design chops with regards to their mobile OSs?
Click to expand...
But Matias is right. Every time I use WP7, I feel like I'm starring at some airport lavatory signage.
 
I really find the criticism of WP7 odd. Is there a single memorable UI trait from Android?

Back to Thurrot, he actually is very insightful much of the time, but when he talks about Apple (even when his assessments are correct) he clouds his writing with pettiness that detracts significantly from what he is trying to say.
 
Greyface said:
And the interfaces for both OSes are entirely GPU driven, aren't they? "dog slow" is a tad hyperbolic but I can see how he'd experience that subjectively jumping from the wp7 to a 3GS device. The 3GS and the available WP7 devices are in the same price range right now and if Apple is still selling the 3GS I don't see why it's wrong to compare the two.
Click to expand...
Nothing is entirely GPU driven. The 4 and the 3GS share the same GPU but the 4 is worlds snappier because of the faster CPU and double the RAM.

As for price, one could argue WP7 devices are competing with the 4.

$50 Focus: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...TM)+-+Black&q_sku=sku4980540#fbid=eREnhK-kR1a

$100 HD7S: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...ce=HTC+HD7S&q_sku=sku5200276#fbid=eREnhK-kR1a

$100 HD7: http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/Phones/cell-phone-detail.aspx?cell-phone=HTC-HD7
 
brotkasten said:
But Matias is right. Every time I use WP7, I feel like I'm starring at some airport lavatory signage.
Click to expand...
Haha, I'd say it looks like an art-house gallery or *sigh* the metro.


giga said:
Nothing is entirely GPU driven. The 4 and the 3GS share the same GPU but the 4 is worlds snappier because of the faster CPU and double the RAM.

As for price, one could argue WP7 devices are competing with the 4.

$50 Focus: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...TM)+-+Black&q_sku=sku4980540#fbid=eREnhK-kR1a

$100 HD7S: http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...ce=HTC+HD7S&q_sku=sku5200276#fbid=eREnhK-kR1a

$100 HD7: http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/Phones/cell-phone-detail.aspx?cell-phone=HTC-HD7
Click to expand...
true, but that's mostly the speed of the apps and games not the UI as such. The Focus is cheaper than the 3GS with no contract pricing and the on-contract pricing fluctuates a lot. I expect to see it at $0 when ATT&T gets their new generation of WP devices (the 3GS was also $50 just two weeks ago).
 
Greyface said:
Duarte's previous UI design products speaks for itself and gives him license to shit on anybody and everybody. Apple copied lots of Android for iOS5 and Microsoft copied webOS for multitasking in Mango. The improvements to Android in ICS don't look half-bad, especially given the constraints of the platform. That said, I disagree with Duarte about Metro looking like lavatory signage :P.
Click to expand...

The worst part of Mango came from WebOS, not something I'd hang my hat on.
 
It does remind me of an airport/subway.... but that's also the reason its called metro.

I don't think matias is right that its "bad".... what's bad is trying to pass off a font as a new design language (esp with the rest of ics looking like one of those neon blue clocks from 10 yrs ago). When android actually has a good design language he can come on stage and talk about others.
 
venne said:
The worst part of Mango came from WebOS, not something I'd hang my hat on.
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If the competitor's copies aren't as good as the original that says something.

jagowar said:
It does remind me of an airport/subway.... but that's also the reason its called metro.

I don't think matias is right that its "bad".... what's bad is trying to pass off a font as a new design language (esp with the rest of ics looking like one of those neon blue clocks from 10 yrs ago). When android actually has a good design language he can come on stage and talk about others.
Click to expand...
Did you stop at the typeface introduction and not watch the rest of the event?
 
Greyface said:
If the competitor's copies aren't as good as the original that says something.
Click to expand...

I've said it previously, but it would be better to just have a list of apps like the browser's tabs so you could quickly jump around instead of scrolling. I'd actually prefer bezel gestures to tab through applications like they've shown in Windows 8. Why mess with a UI at all?
 
brotkasten said:
Is it wrong that I find WebOS pretty ... boring?
Click to expand...

It's not respectful to speak of the dead in such ways. :P

I have a webOS phone and tablet. I love the cards on the tablet, not so much on the phone. It's okay and it's still enjoyable to throw them around, but it is not nearly as useful as when you can really see what they're displaying.
 
venne said:
I've said it previously, but it would be better to just have a list of apps like the browser's tabs so you could quickly jump around instead of scrolling. I'd actually prefer bezel gestures to tab through applications like they've shown in Windows 8. Why mess with a UI at all?
Click to expand...
I find the app switching in Windows 8 terrible. When I want to go from app A to app E, I have to go all the way through B, C and D. It's slow annoying and inefficient. it works better with a mouse, where you can scroll through the apps with a wheel (kinda like a mini flip 3d).
 
Greyface said:
Did you stop at the typeface introduction and not watch the rest of the event?
Click to expand...

I watched the whole thing.... it looked like honeycomb with a new font. They didn't change the design philosophy behind android which metro did for windows.

Just curious but what about ics to you was the grand new design philosophy that is worthy of duarte talking about how others are not as good..... I certainly didn't see it last night.


brotkasten said:
I find the app switching in Windows 8 terrible. When I want to go from app A to app E, I have to go all the way through B, C and D. It's slow annoying and inefficient. it works better with a mouse, where you can scroll through the apps with a wheel (kinda like a mini flip 3d).
Click to expand...

I still kinda expect them to have some kind of a better way to do that.... seems it would be easy enough to add an alt tab like feature to it somewhere where it will popup a view of all the open tabs and let you pick one.

Also I really loved webos.... just never got the app support and marketshare. It's multitasking interface is still the gold standard imo.
 
brotkasten said:
I find the app switching in Windows 8 terrible. When I want to go from app A to app E, I have to go all the way through B, C and D. It's slow annoying and inefficient. it works better with a mouse, where you can scroll through the apps with a wheel (kinda like a mini flip 3d).
Click to expand...

I don't see how it would be any slower than what's already on WP7.

Take your example. Swipe left four times versus hold back, swipe left until the app shows, and then tap the app. I'd think that I would be in the app I wanted before you brought up the task switcher.
 
venne said:
I don't see how it would be any slower than what's already on WP7.

Take your example. Swipe left four times versus hold back, swipe left until the app shows, and then tap the app.
Click to expand...
I tried it with 5 apps on my Windows Phone and an X220 Tablet. It took longer on Windows 8. The horizontal scrolling is faster than swiping through apps.
 
brotkasten said:
I tried it with 5 apps on my Windows Phone and an X220 Tablet. It took longer on Windows 8. The horizontal scrolling is faster than swiping through apps.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but you need to account for the roughly one second needed to even get to the task switcher screen. If you are going back one or two applications, swiping would easily win out. Maybe as you move farther back on the list you could take longer swiping than holding the back button, scrolling, and selecting. Maybe.

I am hesitant to concede based on your test with the tablet versus the phone. It's better than nothing, but I don't think it's truly analogous. Travel times/distances are different and undoubtedly the execution, if implemented, would differ.
 
Greyface said:
Haha, I'd say it looks like an art-house gallery or *sigh* the metro.



true, but that's mostly the speed of the apps and games not the UI as such. The Focus is cheaper than the 3GS with no contract pricing and the on-contract pricing fluctuates a lot. I expect to see it at $0 when ATT&T gets their new generation of WP devices (the 3GS was also $50 just two weeks ago).
Click to expand...
I notice a different in UI speed between the 4 and 3GS and it's definitely hardware related. And let's be honest about WP7 phone prices--they're crazy cheap for the hardware you get.
 
giga said:
I notice a different in UI speed between the 4 and 3GS and it's definitely hardware related. And let's be honest about WP7 phone prices--they're crazy cheap for the hardware you get.
Click to expand...
thats true. but i fear the hardware for WP7 we have today will become as useless as iphone 3G by next year when WP7 release new phones.
 
Complex Shadow said:
thats true. but i fear the hardware for WP7 we have today will become as useless as iphone 3G by next year when WP7 release new phones.
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microsoft is pretty good in supporting old hardware. so we will probably get some nice chunks of updates as well.
 
giga said:
I notice a different in UI speed between the 4 and 3GS and it's definitely hardware related. And let's be honest about WP7 phone prices--they're crazy cheap for the hardware you get.
Click to expand...
I didn't recall the UI speed difference but that's probably me misattributing the effects of jailbreaking. True about the hardware but we're just quibbling over minor details at this point :P

brotkasten said:
Is it wrong that I find WebOS pretty ... boring?
Click to expand...
I'll find webOS boring when all the great user interface ideas have been plundered from it. I'd really, really love to see Microsoft copy the Touchstone and Exhibition mode. It would be awesome with Metro UI.
 
venne said:
Perhaps, but you need to account for the roughly one second needed to even get to the task switcher screen. If you are going back one or two applications, swiping would easily win out. Maybe as you move farther back on the list you could take longer swiping than holding the back button, scrolling, and selecting. Maybe.

I am hesitant to concede based on your test with the tablet versus the phone. It's better than nothing, but I don't think it's truly analogous. Travel times/distances are different and undoubtedly the execution, if implemented, would differ.
Click to expand...
Alright, the ultimate reason why the task switcher in wp7 is better than the windows 8 method: you can actually see your open applications.

Boom.
 
First Nokia 800 Press Shots. Looks like the real deal here:

http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/nokia-800-first-press-shots

xmDEN.jpg
UauGz.jpg

u9uQM.jpg
 
Look at how the glass face bulges out in the shot with the blue-colored phone, you could slap on a case for protection but I couldn't imagine covering up this beauty.
 
bedlamite said:
Look at how the glass face bulges out in the shot with the blue-colored phone, you could slap on a case for protection but I couldn't imagine covering up this beauty.
Click to expand...
i actually don't like how this looks. and the side buttons scare me.
 
It's probably worth reading N9 reviews to get a feel for the build construction and camera quality the expected 800 will have.

Here is the one from GSMArena (excellent reviews all round here): http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-review-659.php

GSMArena Review said:
Q8knf.jpg


This is easily one of the best looking phones we've seen. It’s not the slimmest and it doesn’t have an exceptional build or finish. But as soon as you look at it, how big and how tall become instantly irrelevant. For the record though, the Nokia N9 measures 116.5 x 61.2 x 12.1 mm and weighs 135g.


Design and construction

Now did we mention the Nokia N9 is a pleasure to look at. Equally impressive though, the design of the hardware complements the software and that's a big part of the fluid user experience.

If you like minimalist designs, the N9 is the ultimate. There are as little hardware controls as humanly possible. The whole thing is symmetrical, organically curved and beautifully simple to use.

The Nokia N9 has a unibody design, which usually implies metal, but the Finns went for premium-quality polycarbonate instead so we don't think too many people will mind.

The body seems very sturdy, it can take a few knocks and not show it. The Corning Gorilla glass over the display and the plastic itself make sure of that. The polycarbonate is colored itself rather than painted. No peeling paint issues and even a deep scratch won't reveal anything but the same color as the rest of the body.

Speaking of which, the Nokia N9 comes in black, cyan or magenta.

3.9" AMOLED display with PenTile matrix

The main attraction of the Nokia N9 is the display. In fact, it's more or less the only thing you interact with when using the N9.

Nokia's other AMOLED offerings are pretty good, but the nHD resolution is on the low side. The N9's screen boasts all of their advantages (namely, great contrast, colors and image quality) and pushes up the resolution.

It's a 3.9" AMOLED unit with FWVGA resolution (meaning 480 x 854 pixels). Our investigation revealed it uses a PenTile matrix - meaning each pixel has two subpixels instead of three - but the high 251ppi pixel density means that most people wouldn’t notice it.

Indoors, the viewing experience is great - the display is basically glued to the Gorilla Glass on top, which makes it look almost as if the icons are painted on the surface of the handset when you look from an extreme angle.

The screen continues to impress outdoors in the sun too - it remains perfectly visible, while the colors keep most of their punch too. The anti-glare polarizer is certainly working well as the N9 is probably the least-reflective screen we have seen.

The Nokia N9 touchscreen is very responsive and the edges of the scratch-resistant glass that cover it are convex (the display itself is flat). This is essential to working with the MeeGo software as swipes usually start at the very edge of the screen. This is probably the most common gesture and the curved glass makes it nearly effortless.

We measured the maximum brightness of the N9's screen to see how it stacks up against other AMOLEDs and the LCDs. As usual, contrast is theoretically infinite though reflections mean it's practically some really high number. The low reflectivity of this particular screen makes it that much impressive.

As for the brightness, the Nokia N9 has one of the brightest AMOLEDs we have seen. In falls only marginally short of the X7 screen, which tops our charts.
Click to expand...
 
brotkasten said:
Alright, the ultimate reason why the task switcher in wp7 is better than the windows 8 method: you can actually see your open applications.

Boom.
Click to expand...
Only one and a part of another. There's little difference between blind swiping and semi-blind swiping.

A tabs-esque single screen solution would be superior if visualization is the priority.
 
thirty said:
IMO, the searay 800 is just a teaser. Nokia's gotta reveal a hero device from their top of the line 900 series.
Click to expand...
thats what i am hoping for. if not i would be more than happy with the current device. i just don't like how it looks.
 
giga said:
There's no question about that, but that situation didn't repeat itself with iOS 5 and the 3GS.



That's…kind of obvious? The 3GS is slower than any Windows Phone hardware wise apart from the GPU. Half the RAM and half the CPU speed.
Click to expand...

I thought the point he was making was that, unlike the 3GS and iOS4(5), one year old WP hardware ran the 7.5 update faster than the original OS. He was saying that the OS is really well optimized to achieve such a feat on older hardware. Am I wrong?
 
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