BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
http://m.windowscentral.com/nadella-if-oems-dont-build-windows-phones-we-will
Fucking love this guy, he also talks about continuum
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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1
- Thread starter brotkasten
- Start date
Fucking love this guy, he also talks about continuum
The Photos app is still an abomination and it's so integrated into the OS... The camera uses it (camera is also slower than 8.1). File picker uses it, etc...
Not to mention the app itself is Ahhhh. Just atrocious. Pictures look absolutely terrible. Sharpening galore is applied. I thought I screwed up an entire photoshoot editing when I looked later that night on my tablet with Win10. No, it's just the app!
It's even worse on phones.
Not to mention the app itself is Ahhhh. Just atrocious. Pictures look absolutely terrible. Sharpening galore is applied. I thought I screwed up an entire photoshoot editing when I looked later that night on my tablet with Win10. No, it's just the app!
It's even worse on phones.
I thought Intel's current mobile processors are lower to mid tier. Nothing high end?
José Mourinho
cocknose
Sounds fantastic, now watch as developers build their desktop apps and stop at the point of implementing a phone UI because the extra development time, however trivial, is still too long and costs too much to worry about not reaching the 3%.
the whole article is worth reading.
read:http://www.zdnet.com/article/ceo-na...itions-windows-10-strategy-hololens-and-more/
In other news, there's a new update for Windows 10 insider fast track, the bad news is I can't download it cause my WiFi is borked. Lol.
read:http://www.zdnet.com/article/ceo-na...itions-windows-10-strategy-hololens-and-more/
As I was saying earlier in the thread, windows phone for businesses = security. Something else I didn't think of was home brew apps built in Azure, deployed to your companies windows phones, complete with AD integration.
In other news, there's a new update for Windows 10 insider fast track, the bad news is I can't download it cause my WiFi is borked. Lol.
whats so funny? Just updated my SP3 to windows 10 yesterday and I have to say the universal apps are quite nice. I like that you keep the task bar down instead of the app being completely full screen.
If you are a developer, are you going to write one program that only runs on x86 machines? Or are you going to develop a program that can run on x86 machines, phones, xbox, and can be somewhat easily ported to iOS and android and vice versa?
Bit bold of him to say that when diddly squat was developed for Win8. And there are 100s of millions of users on there.
Anton Sugar
Member
That quote is exactly why I'm confused by Universal modern apps covering the same ground as full-fledged Desktop apps. See: Modern/Universal Office apps vs Office 2016.
Why go with the Modern versions when the un-gimped versions are available? It's the same thing we had with W8/8.1 vs Desktop apps.
When they announced Universal apps, I thought they were meant to replace the Desktop versions. So, when in the mobile/smaller device setting, they would scale to more usable versions, and when used on the Desktop, they'd have their full featureset.
if you read the full interview that I posted, he covers that. He says they made a mistake with windows 8, in that no one knew about the store. I think he's somewhat right, the store was hidden until 8.1.
I guess if you don't like the strategy you think they should probably just pack it in for phones and universal apps?
People knew the store was there, and people knew it was a wasteland. No idea what their strategy should be. But I see no change in anything that would imply devs are going to flood to develop universal applications.
Steelyuhas
Member
The strategy is logical enough, but I have a hard time seeing a bunch of developers feeling the need to create/port their Win32 apps or websites to a Universal app when their existing version will continue to serve users just fine on Windows 10.
dglavimans
Member
Maybe for some of you this helps. Been on Windows Phone 10 since the beginning and always my phone got quite hot(1520) on the top left. Which resulted in battery drain I think cause heat = more power etc etc.
Didn't quite figure out why but I opened Glance from that link and also... I think it was motion data or network+... Worth to try both though and they all asked me to restart the device. My theory is the phone got hot because those things got stuck, the phone does run allot cooler now and my battery is back to normal
Didn't quite figure out why but I opened Glance from that link and also... I think it was motion data or network+... Worth to try both though and they all asked me to restart the device. My theory is the phone got hot because those things got stuck, the phone does run allot cooler now and my battery is back to normal
brotkasten
Member
But the big apps moved away from the desktop and aren't represented there at all. Instagram, Snapchat, WhatsApp. The first two don't even have a web interface.
Aren't the universal office apps free on Windows? That's the answer right there. From a functionality standpoint, they're closer to WordPad than full Word, for example. If my mom didn't hate the interface so much (it's the lack of contrast), then the universal apps would be more than enough for her. Instead she going to keep using Office 2007.
ok, so they've gone away, and that means they can never ever come back? Again, should Microsoft just give up then? I mean, i'm not sure what you guys want them to do. It doesn't seem to matter what they do, you are unhappy.
Personally windows 10 on my surface is fantastic, Edge is the best browser I've ever used. And this is coming from someone that liked and defended windows 8. If they can pull the same smoothness off in windows 10 for phone, i'll be perfectly happy. Couldn't give two shits if their marketshare is whatever.
So that was strange, did a hard reset on my icon and it came back up with Windows 10, not windows 8.1. Fixed the wifi problem though, I can now connect to wifi and download apps.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Personally...
1. Windows 8 had tons of users. Barely a good app in the store.
2. Huge developers have had the opportunity to cater to the 3% all this time and haven't been assed, why will they start now? Take for example, Facebook. Their app is trash. How much would it cost a company of that size to develop a good WP app? Nothing really, but they still don't. But it's okay, cause in Windows 10 all roads lead to phone. Only see Facebook's desktop efforts (point 1) it's also trash.
So now we might get one trash app that shares the same codebase.
Facebook is just an example, mind, maybe they will come good. But my point as earlier in this thread. Tooling the app for phone, however trivial, is still work. And it's work I'd be willing to bet won't get done. Hope I'm wrong.
Also, some of the biggest apps we're missing don't have any desktop presence at all.
MSN News, MSN Sports, MSN Weather, Netflix, Hulu, Epicurious, are all good to very good apps. but that's beside the point.José Mourinho;171874522 said:
ok, great, you've identified the problem for the umpteenth time in the thread, whats the solution, since you and others are clearly unhappy with the way MS is going?
Steelyuhas
Member
I don't think Twitter ever received any significant updates after coming out.
Interestingly enough though, Twitter was listed at Build as one of the major early development partners for Windows 10 universal apps.
I have said this before and was rightfully ignored, but the chance that the app uptake in W10 will much, much bigger is relatively high.
W8 essentially had 2 interfaces: the traditional desktop and the modern interface. As a desktop user the temptation to use the modern interface was slim to non-existent. Why would you use full screen apps that are optimised for touch with a mouse and keyboard, when you also cannot? You just don't, or very rarely do, is the answer.
That's not the case with W10. Apps behave like traditional programs, they are windowed, they can just as easily be used with a mouse and kb as with touch. I am now actually using modern apps on my desktop, because it makes sense to. I have a suspicion that others will as well.
Not everyone of course, but I think it will be a significantly larger percentage of people.
Then there's the little matter of W10 attracting a much larger user-base by default (it's free, after all) and a different user-base than 8 (DX12 will mean gamers will actually use it). And unlike W8, you will see W10 in the enterprise. A larger percentage of a much bigger user-base using modern apps means massive growth compared to W8.
Snapchat, Whatsapp etc.? No cunt will use them on a desktop. Why would they.
Twitter, Facebook etc.? If the apps are decent, people will use them.
Anyway, carry on.
W8 essentially had 2 interfaces: the traditional desktop and the modern interface. As a desktop user the temptation to use the modern interface was slim to non-existent. Why would you use full screen apps that are optimised for touch with a mouse and keyboard, when you also cannot? You just don't, or very rarely do, is the answer.
That's not the case with W10. Apps behave like traditional programs, they are windowed, they can just as easily be used with a mouse and kb as with touch. I am now actually using modern apps on my desktop, because it makes sense to. I have a suspicion that others will as well.
Not everyone of course, but I think it will be a significantly larger percentage of people.
Then there's the little matter of W10 attracting a much larger user-base by default (it's free, after all) and a different user-base than 8 (DX12 will mean gamers will actually use it). And unlike W8, you will see W10 in the enterprise. A larger percentage of a much bigger user-base using modern apps means massive growth compared to W8.
Snapchat, Whatsapp etc.? No cunt will use them on a desktop. Why would they.
Twitter, Facebook etc.? If the apps are decent, people will use them.
Anyway, carry on.
José Mourinho
cocknose
50% of those are MS own apps. Forgive us for not being thrilled about them. Those have never been the issue and should be a given.
It's not our jobs to come up with solutions. Many of us are just reacting, I think realistically, to Microsoft's plans as they've outlined them and we can't see how it's likely to change the outlook of the platform.
José Mourinho
cocknose
So what should we do? "Sounds swell, MS!" when we don't think it does, or just say nothing at all? The thread's purpose is to discuss these things and a lot of us don't think they're great solutions to the problem, doesn't mean we should offer up solutions of our own or be quiet. Just because I or anybody else doesn't necessarily have a better idea doesn't make Microsoft's plan a quality one.
While I think that Mourinho is one of histories greatest monsters, I think it's the right position to remain sceptical of MS's chances to turn things around in the app/mobile space. I also don't mind the GAF Mourinho that much, really.
That said, it seems to me that their W10 universal app approach is as sensible as any.
That said, it seems to me that their W10 universal app approach is as sensible as any.
n64coder
Member
Well said. I agree with everything you said here.
José Mourinho;171880861 said:
except I never said any of that. Nor did I say no one can be critical.
I quoted someone who posted an asinine response of "LOLOLOLOL dudes delusional" and I asked what would be a better solution, you know, starting a discussion. Instead ive been quoted by you and like 4 other people saying essentially its stupid and is going to fail, meanwhile I've asked multiple times whats a better solution? Cause, ya know, we're having a discussion here right?
Anyway, I upgraded to the latest build and things are definitely better than they were on the previous build. Wifi is working fine, most apps were able to be downloaded, save for a few. Most have all the settings from windows 8.1 build. New mail app is quite nice compared to the old one.
Bunch of quirks here and there, like the keyboard not disappearing after searching for something in the store. Weather app not being able to scroll back up when in "favorite places" after scrolling down. Sometimes it doesn't seem to register a response to input. Battery drain is definite as well.
LukasTaves
Member
Win 8 store was a disaster, but I think the major issues with it are resolved in win10.
The W8 app platform was way limited, the design language was completely half baked, and the fact that desktop users loathed the full screen interface made the store the failure it was, not so much the fact that people don't want apps in the desktop.
MS not supporting the store on their own, with their office suite lacking from it and forcing tablet users to use the desktop version (and a half assed UI for touch) didn't help either...
I know, I am an outlier, but I would definitely prefer to use anything and everything on my PC. The reason is twofold: 1) I prefer to write on a physical keyboard. 2) I spend much more time using and in fact in front of a computer than with my phone.
Astral/H3X
Member
I like the strategy they are having -- mostly because it is fluid. A good strategy, in any situation, is the one with the least points of failure, and with the most flexibility. With the universal apps situation, if ANY platform succeeds and gets app support, ALL platforms succeed and get app support. This is two fold, since a successful app environment gives us a successful app environment on desktop, tablet, and phones, and also makes it more encouraging for developers to MAKE said apps, since now one codebase can support a console, tablets, desktops, and phones.
I don't know, I really like the strategy, and I could scarcely think of a better one other than "Buy Android and turn it into Windows" or some incredibly impossible shit like that.
Also I really love the metro design language, and hope UA's are successful just so my desktop can look pretty.
I don't know, I really like the strategy, and I could scarcely think of a better one other than "Buy Android and turn it into Windows" or some incredibly impossible shit like that.
Also I really love the metro design language, and hope UA's are successful just so my desktop can look pretty.
CaptainABAB
Member
Can we be a little bit realistic and admit that universal apps does NOT guarantee those apps will exist across the entire device spectrum?
Some developers/companies may take the easy path and only target one device profile: desktop or console or phone. They could make a generic app that targets every device possible using the common API and the built-in "adaptive" controls and layouts. But then that app isn't optimized for some devices:
- Using platform specific features (GPS/location, back button, accelerometer, gyro, camera, etc.)
- Handling different orientations or screen dimensions (aka move the URL bar to the bottom of IE/Edge on the phone but on the top when in desktop.)
Which is why the UWP SDK includes Platform extension SDKs: Windows Desktop, Windows Mobile, Windows IoT, and Windows PPI.
It is still less work and easier to target one device family and optimize for that. Never mind the QA effort required to test your app against the entire matrix of device types and sizes.
From MSDN...
On that same page, note the extra XAML that needs to be written to handle "wideView" and "narrowView", the additional code required to detect which APIs are supported, UX design considerations when targeting multiple device, etc.
As a developer, I understand the difficulty Microsoft had in creating one universal platform and agree that it is the correct long-term approach. I think they did a great job on putting this together and I don't think it is a problem with the tools themselves. These issues I mentioned will be always be there because it is inherent due to the wide spectrum of device sizes and capabilities. UWP isn't a silver bullet that automatically solves all of these problems.
I think it all depends on the success of the respective systems. If app use does "take off" on W10 it will lead to more and to better apps. More and better apps will also lead to a possibility of a higher WP uptake from those that use the desktop version.
If the marketshare of phone climbs then there's also a better chance that devs will make their W10 apps available for phone.
If this sounds like a wonderful future of W10 being ridiculously successful and WP taking off while pan fried quails fly into your mouth at the free beer festival, that's not what I mean.
WP will always remain on the fringe. It's too late for anything else. But I don't think it's out of the question that the app situation will significantly improve because of W10. It's just as likely that it won't, of course.
No, I changed my mind as soon as I clicked post. Actually, it would be good to have those apps on a desktop.
Whatsapp is even a realistic possibility for W10, I suppose.
If the marketshare of phone climbs then there's also a better chance that devs will make their W10 apps available for phone.
If this sounds like a wonderful future of W10 being ridiculously successful and WP taking off while pan fried quails fly into your mouth at the free beer festival, that's not what I mean.
WP will always remain on the fringe. It's too late for anything else. But I don't think it's out of the question that the app situation will significantly improve because of W10. It's just as likely that it won't, of course.
No, I changed my mind as soon as I clicked post. Actually, it would be good to have those apps on a desktop.
Whatsapp is even a realistic possibility for W10, I suppose.
brotkasten
Member
WhatsApp is already on the desktop, though.
Yes, but as a gimped web app (as far as I know you have to be signed in on your phone to use it?).
Anyway, we'll see. We can talk about it as much as we want, at the end of the day we'll see in a few months time, or maybe a bit longer than that.
A discussion of "everything is shit and will forever remain shit and if anything will become quite a bit shittier still" vs "everything's going to be great, fuck off, no, your mother" is not really all that helpful. Because let's face it, we all know as much as the next guy. Which is to say, fuck all and possibly a bit less than that.
Anyway, we'll see. We can talk about it as much as we want, at the end of the day we'll see in a few months time, or maybe a bit longer than that.
A discussion of "everything is shit and will forever remain shit and if anything will become quite a bit shittier still" vs "everything's going to be great, fuck off, no, your mother" is not really all that helpful. Because let's face it, we all know as much as the next guy. Which is to say, fuck all and possibly a bit less than that.
Whoa, with all the negative talk this week I took until yesterday to install 10166 on my 635 test mule.
I'm damned closed to installing W10 on my daily driver at this point. There's a couple UI flaws here and there (the people tile is horrendous) but the overall feel of the build is pretty quality.
If I can verify that my custom MMS settings can finally be applied and my non-standard carrier will work (just need to fix the bent pin on my 635's SIM slot) I might upgrade my 1520 this week. W10 is just enough of a refresh to make the OS seem new and modern again, maybe I'm the minority opinion on here but 8.1 still feels rooted squarely in 2010.
I'm actually a big fan of the new background image style. I really thought I'd stick with the tile only image but you can create some attractive start screens in W10 with the built in wallpapers and some transparency tweaking.
And even though it's a little (read: a lot) buggy, the outlook mail app is LIGHT YEARS better than 8.1.
Get me some slow motion video and I won't be jumping ship come fall. A couple weeks ago I was at least entertaining the thought of having to abandon ship. A couple key features in W10 and I'll stick around until the ship has fully sunk.
I'm damned closed to installing W10 on my daily driver at this point. There's a couple UI flaws here and there (the people tile is horrendous) but the overall feel of the build is pretty quality.
If I can verify that my custom MMS settings can finally be applied and my non-standard carrier will work (just need to fix the bent pin on my 635's SIM slot) I might upgrade my 1520 this week. W10 is just enough of a refresh to make the OS seem new and modern again, maybe I'm the minority opinion on here but 8.1 still feels rooted squarely in 2010.
I'm actually a big fan of the new background image style. I really thought I'd stick with the tile only image but you can create some attractive start screens in W10 with the built in wallpapers and some transparency tweaking.
And even though it's a little (read: a lot) buggy, the outlook mail app is LIGHT YEARS better than 8.1.
Get me some slow motion video and I won't be jumping ship come fall. A couple weeks ago I was at least entertaining the thought of having to abandon ship. A couple key features in W10 and I'll stick around until the ship has fully sunk.
brotkasten
Member
Yes, you have to be signed in on your phone, but your WhatsApp account is linked to your phone number, so that makes sense. Other than that, the app is in no way gimped, as far as I can tell. You can even take or send pictures from your PC.
When it comes to the discussion, I think the biggest problem is that some or most people here have been using and/or following the platform for such a long time, it's hard to give a shit about any of their promises anymore. We've heard it all before.
Fixing the 1.0 release with Mango
Focusing and serving the low-cost, low-end market with Tango
Reboot with Apollo (throw your old phones away and it's going to be totally great, because same core as Windows 8! Developers will love it!)
Excuse me Sir, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior,
Where do you go from there? I have almost nothing but snarky remarks and cynicism left in me and unless they can offer a good phone at an attractive price point ("affordable flagship" for real this time, please), it would be hard for me to go back. It's not that I wouldn't want to, but there's no incentive right now.
I don't know, I don't think there's any promises. It's a different approach now, it may work, it may not.
As for people jumping back on WP (yourself included), I think it's all about decent hardware. If it's there, I'm pretty sure you'd be tempted, cynical old bastard or not.
As for people jumping back on WP (yourself included), I think it's all about decent hardware. If it's there, I'm pretty sure you'd be tempted, cynical old bastard or not.
brotkasten
Member
Decent hardware at a good price point is what I really want. Google is rumored to release a new Nexus 5 by LG this year and I'd love a competitor from Microsoft.
5", 1080p screen, decent battery, good camera. Not more than $399. Oh, and no low-tier Snapdragon would be great as well (I still feel trolled by the initial price and reveal of the 830). If Google can to it, there's no reason Microsoft can't.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
I know happens to me all the time. Restarting always works though.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I'm pretty excited getting the RTM of Windows 10 today. Hopefully phone development picks up now. I want to see what the final hardware/software looks like.
brotkasten
Member
Quick, edit your post, before a certain someone comes in here and tells you that it's not officially the RTM!
Personally I'm not excited for Windows 10. It looks (looked?) worse as a tablet OS and I can't think of any desktop features that are interesting to me. At least Windows 8 had virtual machines and ISO mounting.
I'm usually there from day 1, when it comes to bigwin, but 10 just doesn't seem as exciting. Not sure what's wrong with me.