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[brotkasten]

You know whats weird about being back on the iPhone? The daily significant app updates with detailed changelogs. Not only that but the Microsoft apps get updated more on iOS than WP

Yeah, lets not exaggerate here. More and more companies are shifting away from (detailed) change logs.

I guess it depends on the apps, but none of the apps on my iPad (Spotify, Facebook, Twitter and more) have daily significant app updates with detailed change logs.

e: In fact, there's even an article about this shitty trend with the stupid change logs these companies are putting out.

TC: App Release Notes Are Getting Stupid

"Facebook may have kicked off this trend, but it’s hardly the only company fudging its release notes these days.

Pinterest, too, has followed suit. And that above quote about “super amazing things” comes from Tinder, which is probably one of the more egregious recent examples.
Plus, it’s more common than ever to see notes that simply state: “Bug fixes and performance improvements,” like Yahoo, Hulu, Google, Flipboard, LinkedIn, Microsoft, and several others have done over the course of the past month alone.

It seems that once you’re a certified “big company,” having to actually detail which bugs just got squashed is no longer your job.

More importantly, the lack of detail in release notes makes a statement about what a company thinks of its user base – that their users don’t care about minor changes, so why bother? It’s that same old elitist behavior – common in the I.T. industry, in particular – which elevates technical staff above the plebeian, unimportant users."

http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/04/app-release-notes-are-getting-stupid/

 

[hadareud]

On my Phantom I have hourly updates and the developers video call to tell me what's changed.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I cant decide whether to stick with the G4 or not. I have all the apps i really need on WP, i just wish it was easier to get the new hardware.

 

[JaggedSac]

Yep, Joe'll be back.

Good to hear.

 

[lastflowers]

I'm still waiting to be blown away by the mobile Windows 10 release. This deeply disturbs me.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I noticed some things are proper resolution now like the icons for notifications. Lots of other small touches.

 

[brotkasten]

I'm still waiting to be blown away by the mobile Windows 10 release. This deeply disturbs me.

Please excuse this stupid question, but what exactly are you expecting from W10M?

All I know is that W10M brings new and universal MS apps and a background on the home screen. Feature-wise it seems like a small step when compared to 8.1. The same happened when going from 7.5 to 8.

Are there any expected or announced features that aren't in yet?

 

[NeOak]

On my Phantom I have hourly updates and the developers video call to tell me what's changed.

 

[lastflowers]

Please excuse this stupid question, but what exactly are you expecting from W10M?

All I know is that W10M brings new and universal MS apps and a background on the home screen. Feature-wise it seems like a small step when compared to 8.1. The same happened when going from 7.5 to 8.

Are there any expected or announced features that aren't in yet?

I've been so heads down on work this year that I haven't been really researching the other features from around the company. So the //Build announcements and the recent event have provided me with 90% of my information on the phone (other than me playing with newly flashed builds on older engineering hardware or my Icon every day or so).

The biggest thing I see from this release is that both Desktop/Phone engineers are the same people (for the most part), which imo should finally provide a much easier ability for the company to provide holistic experiences across devices and OSes. Something like Continuum and UWP are really exciting to me...but there's not really anything yet that has done anything that blows me away.

We also say that updating devices will be easier this time. While I believe that to be true this time (partially because Windows is and has the process for flights), MSFT has said the same thing in the past. The engineering culture is the biggest change that I think will help out the entire ecosystem and users between releases, instead of only at major releases--if that makes any sense at all.

 

[JaggedSac]

I've been so heads down on work this year that I haven't been really researching the other features from around the company. So the //Build announcements and the recent event have provided me with 90% of my information on the phone (other than me playing with newly flashed builds on older engineering hardware or my Icon every day or so).

The biggest thing I see from this release is that both Desktop/Phone engineers are the same people (for the most part), which imo should finally provide a much easier ability for the company to provide holistic experiences across devices and OSes. Something like Continuum and UWP are really exciting to me...but there's not really anything yet that has done anything that blows me away.

We also say that updating devices will be easier this time. While I believe that to be true this time (partially because Windows is and has the process for flights), MSFT has said the same thing in the past. The engineering culture is the biggest change that I think will help out the entire ecosystem and users between releases, instead of at major releases--if that makes any sense at all.

I think they have said the builds are pretty much feature complete. Just putting fit and finish on everything. I would imagine Redstone will have some new features in first part of next year.

As far as updates, you guys are still hamstrung by the carriers, I doubt there will be much change. Luckily, you provide for the insider builds. Which I would imagine the slow ring to be quite safe to use on a device.

 

[yankeehater]

This restore back to 8.1 went a whole lot quicker once I unchecked "Automatically update my apps" on start up. That was the biggest delay in this back and forth stuff.

Where do I go to do that? I try every weekend to upgrade to 10, but it never works so I always windup going back to 8.1 and it takes forever to update all the apps that I have.

 

[clav]

Sounds to me like he's taking family time.

http://www.windowscentral.com/joe-belfiore-will-take-extended-leave-microsoft-until-summer-2016

With Terry Myerson in charge, I guess he can take a break.

 

[brotkasten]

With Terry Myerson in charge, I guess he can take a break.

Well, he can't do anything about that receding hairline while working 12 hour days.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

I can take over for Joe in the mean time.

 

[lastflowers]

I think they have said the builds are pretty much feature complete. Just putting fit and finish on everything. I would imagine Redstone will have some new features in first part of next year.

As far as updates, you guys are still hamstrung by the carriers, I doubt there will be much change. Luckily, you provide for the insider builds. Which I would imagine the slow ring to be quite safe to use on a device.

While we had the previous way of updating phones using the Windows Preview for GDRs, the engineering environment and Carrier environment made it very difficult to rev smaller releases. Under Terry and the unification of the OS group, it makes smaller releases much easier to manage, plan, and eventually deliver. This flighting is probably a big change from before, and I'm excited to see releases go to Windows Insider much quicker with changes. Now, it might never happen, I don't know, but i'm much more bullish than I was before.

Also, UWP is a far superior platform than the weird 8.1 split project stuff from before (at least from my perspective developing on both platforms). I think it should help aide more uniform rollout of features in major apps (ala messaging or music) much quicker than before to both form factors. Again, it might not be utilized, but the pipeline and developer experience is far superior to previous siloed modalities.

But again, nothing that screams to consumers to buy me. Continuum is really cool tech, but nothing has sold me at least on it. I'm still waiting to see realized a cool vision demo by Albert Shum given to me when I was an intern; with this release I can actually envision that video coming to fruition over the next few years.

 

[Steelyuhas]

That's what I mean. I can't believe Facebook is still not on it and MS still has to do their job.

Sadly, we know full well that an announcement of an app coming to the Windows ecosystem does not mean it's releasing anytime soon.

--------------

So, as I posted last night I definitely got hit with the no wifi bug on my 1520 upgrade, so I need to roll back to 8.1 and redo. I started it last night, but for whatever reason the recovery tool gives me truly awful download speeds, so I'm rolling with the W10 build for now.

Some Impressions:
-Overall UI fit & finish and OS performance is really nice, coming together. The new animations are a welcome change from 8.1 (especially on a large screen device)
-MSFT's Universal apps appear to show a lot more potential in the platforms than 8.1, they are all really nice on mobile (and finally all take advantage of proper resolution/screen size scaling so my screen size is actually an advantage now)
-Messaging is still pretty rough. The app's performance needs work, crashes often, I'm not getting notifications for texts this morning.
-Facebook pics are not syncing well/up to date with People yet (although the MSFT's new Facebook beta app is a nice upgrade until Facebook gets their universal apps out)
-Speaking of photo syncing in People, there's needs to be an option to set a preferred photo on linked contacts. I always want a facebook pic over a pic that was synced to my MS account for someone years ago.
-Edge won't launch at all
-Battery drain is still pretty severe

 

[joshschw]

Where do I go to do that? I try every weekend to upgrade to 10, but it never works so I always windup going back to 8.1 and it takes forever to update all the apps that I have.

When you go through the initial set up on a fresh 8.1 install it's an option.

I would advise updating the Motion Data and the Glance screen apps though, manually, since otherwise they seem to error out in WIn10, though the both load up okay.

 

[hadareud]

All I know is that W10M brings new and universal MS apps and a background on the home screen. Feature-wise it seems like a small step when compared to 8.1. The same happened when going from 7.5 to 8.

Not sure that that's true.

W10 integration goes beyond "just" universal apps, which is to say that there actually is integration to speak of. It's also by far the biggest visual change since WP was first released. The list of new features is quite big, certainly compared to 7 to 8 and probably even compared to 8 to 8.1.

Is it enough? It never is. I think it's fair to say that new features have taken a back seat to under the hood work, as you suggest. But to say that there's nothing apart from a new start screen and universal apps isn't true, either.

 

[brotkasten]

Not sure that that's true.

W10 integration goes beyond "just" universal apps, which is to say that there actually is integration to speak of. It's also by far the biggest visual change since WP was first released. The list of new features is quite big, certainly compared to 7 to 8 and probably even compared to 8 to 8.1.

Is it enough? It never is. I think it's fair to say that new features have taken a back seat to under the hood work, as you suggest. But to say that there's nothing apart from a new start screen and universal apps isn't true, either.

I skimped over the list and most of the stuff isn't really noteworthy, other than "Windows finally supports this".

That said, mobile operating systems have reached a point of maturity, where it's really hard to argue for the latest version. When I look at Android 6.0 and how little it brings, I don't even think that not getting OS updates super quick is a big deal anymore. If you're on 5.1, you're fine.

iOS isn't even worth mentioning. I can't tell you one standout feature of iOS 9 and what it does on my iPad. The PiP video thing is cool, but it's not supported on my super old iPad 4, for some shitty reason. What else does it do? No idea.

 

[JaggedSac]

While we had the previous way of updating phones using the Windows Preview for GDRs, the engineering environment and Carrier environment made it very difficult to rev smaller releases. Under Terry and the unification of the OS group, it makes smaller releases much easier to manage, plan, and eventually deliver. This flighting is probably a big change from before, and I'm excited to see releases go to Windows Insider much quicker with changes. Now, it might never happen, I don't know, but i'm much more bullish than I was before.

Also, UWP is a far superior platform than the weird 8.1 split project stuff from before (at least from my perspective developing on both platforms). I think it should help aide more uniform rollout of features in major apps (ala messaging or music) much quicker than before to both form factors. Again, it might not be utilized, but the pipeline and developer experience is far superior to previous siloed modalities.

But again, nothing that screams to consumers to buy me. Continuum is really cool tech, but nothing has sold me at least on it. I'm still waiting to see realized a cool vision demo by Albert Shum given to me when I was an intern; with this release I can actually envision that video coming to fruition over the next few years.

I don't know if this will continue after general availability of these apps, but it seems like you guys are pushing weekly updates to the core apps. Which is a good thing, hope it continues from here on.

To be honest, there really isn't a feature on any phone OS that sticks out to me personally. They all pretty much do the same stuff, at least the same stuff that I would ever use. I don't see myself using continuum. 3d touch doesn't seem to offer anything for me. Everyone has digital assistants.

 

[yankeehater]

When you go through the initial set up on a fresh 8.1 install it's an option.

I would advise updating the Motion Data and the Glance screen apps though, manually, since otherwise they seem to error out in WIn10, though the both load up okay.

I never noticed that, thanks. I will try that the next time my phone fails to install windows 10.

 

[hadareud]

I skimped over the list and most of the stuff isn't really noteworthy, other than "Windows finally supports this".

What's noteworthy is always subjective. Catching up features are still new features if you haven't had them before. It's easy to look at the new features and ask yourself what have the Romans/Microsoft ever done for us.

That said, mobile operating systems have reached a point of maturity, where it's really hard to argue for the latest version. When I look at Android 6.0 and how little it brings, I don't even think that not getting OS updates super quick is a big deal anymore. If you're on 5.1, you're fine.

iOS isn't even worth mentioning. I can't tell you one standout feature of iOS 9 and what it does on my iPad. The PiP video thing is cool, but it's not supported on my super old iPad 4, for some shitty reason. What else does it do? No idea.

Definitely agree with that. At the end of the day it's now mostly about apps and distinguishing hardware features like camera etc.

 

[hadareud]

The new build is a massive step forward.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Not sure why I'm not getting the new build on my 930, they usually appear.

 

[hadareud]

It's another one of those that you have to roll back to 8.1 to to get it.

Apparently there will be another build in the next few days that will work without rolling back.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Roll back as in just turn off the enrolment in the Preview App?

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Roll back as in just turn off the enrolment in the Preview App?

Nope, gotta use the windows phone recovery tool to go back to 8.1

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Nope, gotta use the windows phone recovery tool to go back to 8.1

Hmm, people reporting the new build to be a big improvement in battery life. Might just do it tonight.

 

[hadareud]

A few thing about the build:

- it's fast on my 1020, really fast. 8.1 fast.
- not a single reloading or resuming screen so far
- quite a few visual improvements (people live tile, context menus scale appropriately etc.)
- being able to texts from Cortana on your PC works and it's a very neat feature
- Edge got a sizeable update and is much smoother and faster
- apps open much quicker. Not as quickly as 8.1 but noticeably quicker than in previous builds
- battery life seems much improved and the phone is now staying cool. Finally!
- waze doesn't work for me, crashes on launch. ffs
- the messaging app is still slow and shitty.

All in all it's really getting there now and it's now realistic to expect them to finish the damn thing in time for launch of the new phones.

Good stuff.

 

[Heretic]

I cant decide whether to stick with the G4 or not. I have all the apps i really need on WP, i just wish it was easier to get the new hardware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=Hn-enjcgV1o

 

[JaggedSac]

A few thing about the build:

- it's fast on my 1020, really fast. 8.1 fast.
- not a single reloading or resuming screen so far
- quite a few visual improvements (people live tile, context menus scale appropriately etc.)
- being able to texts from Cortana on your PC works and it's a very neat feature
- Edge got a sizeable update and is much smoother and faster
- apps open much quicker. Not as quickly as 8.1 but noticeably quicker than in previous builds
- battery life seems much improved and the phone is now staying cool. Finally!
- waze doesn't work for me, crashes on launch. ffs
- the messaging app is still slow and shitty.

All in all it's really getting there now and it's now realistic to expect them to finish the damn thing in time for launch of the new phones.

Good stuff.

Conflicted about rolling back. I guess I will give it till Friday.

Also, people are saying the same stuff about the Win10 Xbone update. Wonder when the build comes along that tightens everything up and makes people realize it will be good to go in time.

 

[kazinova]

Yeah, 10572 is the real deal. It's night and day between whatever the last build was (10549?) and this build.

Almost assuredly this can be a daily driver for everyone. I haven't hit any crazy bugs yet.

 

[joshschw]

New build is greatly improved. Still need major bug squashing though, but it it MUCH better than the last build.

Battery seems SOLID so far, I am at 92% took off charger maybe 5 hrs ago. Obviously didn't do lots of browsing or anything, but trying to make a point.

Yeah, 10572 is the real deal. It's night and day between whatever the last build was (10549?) and this build.

Almost assuredly this can be a daily driver for everyone. I haven't hit any crazy bugs yet.

My messaging app crashed twice, but it actually let me load it back up without reboot

 

[SCHUEY F1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=Hn-enjcgV1o

Lol

The new build is pulling me back in!

 

[kharma45]

Yeah, 10572 is the real deal. It's night and day between whatever the last build was (10549?) and this build.

Almost assuredly this can be a daily driver for everyone. I haven't hit any crazy bugs yet.

Don't tempt me frodo

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Guess I'll be going through the process if the new build is that good.

 

[Klocker]

Yeah, 10572 is the real deal. It's night and day between whatever the last build was (10549?) and this build.

Almost assuredly this can be a daily driver for everyone. I haven't hit any crazy bugs yet.

Oh shit NXBE and daily driver w10m... do I dare do it same week?

 

[hadareud]

Forgot to mention the biggest new feature of the build:

The unread count of live tiles now actually clears instantly again when you open the app!

It brings a tear to my eye.

 

[derFeef]

I wonder if its worth trying on my 630 (it's 8.1 right now).

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Nice that edge favorites sync now too.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

So reverted back to 8.1, installed Preview for Developer and...nothing?

 

[hadareud]

You need Windows Insider, maaan.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

You need Windows Insider, maaan.

I have it! Forgot to enrol.

Thanks <3

 

[Heretic]

lol

 

[ty_hot]

I wonder if its worth trying on my 630 (it's 8.1 right now).

I tried older versions on my 640 (should have similar performance) but it was really bad. Now they say battery and performance is much superior, but I won't try for myself, gonna wait for the final release. Let us know in case you try.

one thing I hope will work well is the Cortana integration. On my 8.1 cortana us so bad, it doesn't do anything interesting and most of the times can't understand what I say (cant make it wake me up in the morning, when on google/android it works so the problem is not on me)

 

[juliushandle]

Google selling ad free offline Youtube for $10 a mo.

Hahahahahhaha, it's already ad free and offline on Windows Phone.

*prays Google doesn't shut down glorious 3rd party YouTube apps like Metrotube and Tubecast*

 

[ElNino]

Google selling ad free offline Youtube for $10 a mo.

Hahahahahhaha, it's already ad free and offline on Windows Phone.

*prays Google doesn't shut down glorious 3rd party YouTube apps like Metrotube and Tubecast*

And they complain that WP is missing YouTube, when we really have the best YouTube. It just doesn't come from Google.

 

[hankster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=Hn-enjcgV1o

Awesome. An old friend of mine would get so trapped on this song. You just had to say "Baby come back" and he would swear at you and all day long he would just randomly blurt out "Baby come back!"

Good times...

 

[Steelyuhas]

So, this thing can't hold a charge, so not sure how this reset to 8.1 is going to go and I hope assuming I am able to do that the reset that the issue isn't permanent.

 

[JaggedSac]

Bit the bullet and reset back to 8.1 to get the latest update. Win 10 is super smooth now for me. Forgot how smooth the OS could be after being on the preview builds for a month or two. There is some fit and finish they added too in terms of rendering fonts and such it seems.