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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1

Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
Their two biggest problems were the lack of refreshed flagships and selling the same performance under different guises and pricepoints (in the case of the SD400).

The first one seems to be alleviated by releasing the 950/XL, but in the case of the second one they appear to have simply eliminated every single model save for the barebones entry-level one. Microsoft's new issue is that they lack a true mid-range phone. There's absolutely nothing between the 550 and the 950.
 
T

this_guy

Member
brotkasten said:
Back in 2010, they had a chance with Windows Phone. Not a big one, but it was there. They wanted to be the third mobile ecosystem and they launched with a beautiful, but ultimately "okay" product that was lacking in major areas (no copy/paste, no CDMA). That in and itself wouldn't have been so bad, if they had a good foundation to build upon. Instead, it had a weak foundation (updated Windows CE kernel from Windows Mobile, limited to 512 MB RAM, 1 core, Silverlight apps) that got in developers' ways and had to be scrapped. It was lipstick on a pig. Old phones couldn't be updated to 8.0 and developers had to basically maintain two code bases for 7.x and 8.0. But 8.0 was great! NT kernel and stuff! The merger of Windows and Windows Phone! A gazillion new APIs, better UI, latest and greatest hardware. And then stuff happened, Lumia 520, something something emerging markets, more affordable phones, Windows 8 bombed and I don't even know what else to say.

Like me, who's rambling like a madman, they lost the plot somewhere down the line. 18-24 months without a new flagship (depending on your region and carrier), they bought Nokia, just so they wouldn't launch high-end Android phones and a third reboot with Windows 10 and nothing to show for it.

tl;dr: Windows Phone is dead.
Click to expand...

Microsoft wanted lots of hardware manufacturers like Android but promised fast updates across the board like iPhone. The fast updates didn't happen as Microsoft learned that carriers can block them. After mocking Android for fragmentation and not knowing when Android users will get the latest os release, they announce Windows Phone 8 would require new hardware and not a single phone would be upgraded from Windows Phone 7.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
this_guy said:
Microsoft wanted lots of hardware manufacturers like Android but promised fast updates across the board like iPhone. The fast updates didn't happen as Microsoft learned that carriers can block them. After mocking Android for fragmentation and not knowing when Android users will get the latest os release, they announce Windows Phone 8 would require new hardware and not a single phone would be upgraded from Windows Phone 7.
Click to expand...

That's another good point. Except they knew from the beginning that carriers could block updates. Apparently they just didn't expect it.
 
C

clav

Member
So guys, what would you choose: Galaxy Note 5 (32GB, $300 or 64GB, $400) or a iPhone 6S (64GB, $400)?

Why?

I keep going back and forth. I don't like the LCD screen & lower resolution on the iPhone, but I don't like slow updates on the Galaxy Note 5. I don't own any Apple products, so I don't benefit from iMessage. I like Google's core features, but I don't like the glass body build.

Help. I would want a Nexus phone, but I would have to pay $100-$200 more.

This wouldn't be a difficult choice had Microsoft offered the Lumia on all carriers.
 
L

Lazaro

Member
brotkasten said:
I don't even think it's on purpose, at least not for most companies. Depending on where you are in that area, Microsoft might as well not exist. When these people say "everyone uses [Apple product]", it's because that's literally all they see. And the people who are leading those companies now, grew up with the mindset that Microsoft is the next IBM, therefore uncool and really not that interesting or relevant for the goals they want to achieve. That's entirely on Microsoft and is not something they can change in a year or two.

Back in 2010, they had a chance with Windows Phone. Not a big one, but it was there. They wanted to be the third mobile ecosystem and they launched with a beautiful, but ultimately "okay" product that was lacking in major areas (no copy/paste, no CDMA). That in and itself wouldn't have been so bad, if they had a good foundation to build upon. Instead, it had a weak foundation (updated Windows CE kernel from Windows Mobile, limited to 512 MB RAM, 1 core, Silverlight apps) that got in developers' ways and had to be scrapped. It was lipstick on a pig. Old phones couldn't be updated to 8.0 and developers had to basically maintain two code bases for 7.x and 8.0. But 8.0 was great! NT kernel and stuff! The merger of Windows and Windows Phone! A gazillion new APIs, better UI, latest and greatest hardware. And then stuff happened, Lumia 520, something something emerging markets, more affordable phones, Windows 8 bombed and I don't even know what else to say.

Like me, who's rambling like a madman, they lost the plot somewhere down the line. 18-24 months without a new flagship (depending on your region and carrier), they bought Nokia, just so they wouldn't launch high-end Android phones and a third reboot with Windows 10 and nothing to show for it.

Microsoft has great services and products, and the people growing up today, who are going to lead tomorrow's Snapchat or Uber, might have a different opinion of Microsoft. They might be in their ecosystem, use their tools and services. But what I'm still not seeing is the incentive for these people to invest into Microsoft's platform. Why build universal Windows apps?

tl;dr: Windows Phone is dead.
Click to expand...

That's depressing but I see your points. I remember when Windows Phone 8.0 and the 920 was unveiled in 2012. I wish I'd manage to capture that awesome feeling. Everything was a lot more positive back then.

It's funny, I never owned a Windows Phone but I find the Windows Mobile space the most interesting of the big three companies. Maybe it's because I love video games and I know Microsoft has a giant impact on the Interactive Entertainment Industry with it's DirectX technology and various game studios. But then If gaming is my concern on a mobile device I should probably switch back to iOS, lol. I realise now that Android is just a second class citizen for games and apps...
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Lazaro said:
But Why? All I know is Microsoft brought a lot of companies in the 90's and they nearly had a OS monopoly years ago which for some reason made them look 'evil.' I don't know anything else other than that.

I see absolute pure "hate" wherever a Microsoft product is mentioned. Whether it's in a department store, Film, TV Show or internet in general.
Click to expand...

its irrational for sure. Its gotten better though.

But it is everywhere, I've been in IT for almost 8 years now, and I make damn good money as a consultant for Microsoft System Center, but I meet these IT guys, also making good money, that hate Microsoft and I'm just like, if it weren't for Microsoft you wouldn't have a job right now. And I don't mean like oh you now this product is lacking here, or they should have done this better, I mean they just trash Microsoft products all the time and I'm like why don't you go get a Linux job then?
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Couple W10M questions:
-Known and widespead issue on the current build that text notifications don't work, or just me?
-Is there any way to remove Facebook birthdays from your Outlook Calendar?

Third question:
Anyone having issues getting their MS Band to connect to their phone?
 
L

Lazaro

Member
captive said:
its irrational for sure. Its gotten better though.

But it is everywhere, I've been in IT for almost 8 years now, and I make damn good money as a consultant for Microsoft System Center, but I meet these IT guys, also making good money, that hate Microsoft and I'm just like, if it weren't for Microsoft you wouldn't have a job right now. And I don't mean like oh you now this product is lacking here, or they should have done this better, I mean they just trash Microsoft products all the time and I'm like why don't you go get a Linux job then?
Click to expand...

My IT teacher in High School would constantly bash Windows devices in class and would always state how good games like Call of Duty looked better on Macs. Yeah, he was pretty childish.

Still, it was a pretty cool class. When talking about the future of PC's and laptops the class unanimously prophesied the rise of tablet hybrids.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
The Faceless Master said:
man, what a shitty statement. they claim it's for the best but they obviously haven't even tested it as their mobile website redirects Windows Phone users to Google Play. that's a pretty easy to lose the money of valued customers, some of whom only went to you because of your support for their devices.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think this one is partly on Microsoft. It was with Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1 or 2, when Internet Explorer started to spoof the user agent as Safari or Chrome, because WP users kept being redirected to WAP pages, even though the then current version was capable render mobile HTML5 pages (lazy web devs and all). That worked great in theory. Those sides worked without a hitch on IE10. Fast and smooth. The downside was that they were being offered the iOS/Android app of that side, with those annoying pop ups and all that. It might be a similar case on mint.com
 
Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
Uhh, so, does anybody know the answer to my previous question? About whether or not the HTC M8 WinPhone8.1 is available outside the US?
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Opus Angelorum said:
In the Facebook App if you turn off 'connect with my phone' that should remove calendar entries.
Click to expand...
Hmm alright, I don't want to do that though cause I want pictures and other info from Facebook connected to my phone.

In 8.1 there was a dedicated Facebook birthdays toggle in calendar iirc, hopefully they add that.
 
J

joshschw

Member
brotkasten said:
Actually, I think this one is partly on Microsoft. It was with Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1 or 2, when Internet Explorer started to spoof the user agent as Safari or Chrome, because WP users kept being redirected to WAP pages, even though the then current version was capable render mobile HTML5 pages (lazy web devs and all). That worked great in theory. Those sides worked without a hitch on IE10. Fast and smooth. The downside was that they were being offered the iOS/Android app of that side, with those annoying pop ups and all that. It might be a similar case on mint.com
Click to expand...

It's not like sites can't choose to see it's WP, the safari/chrome thing is a fallback. look at the main neogaf mobile page, it asks if you want to pin a tile.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
joshschw said:
It's not like sites can't choose to see it's WP, the safari/chrome thing is a fallback. look at the main neogaf mobile page, it asks if you want to pin a tile.
Click to expand...

Like I said, it's mainly the web developer's fault. But it's also Microsoft's implementation of the fallback that allows something like a redirect to the competitor's app store.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Couple W10M questions:
-Known and widespead issue on the current build that text notifications don't work, or just me?
-Is there any way to remove Facebook birthdays from your Outlook Calendar?

Third question:
Anyone having issues getting their MS Band to connect to their phone?
Click to expand...


Hamburger menu. Click birthday calendar, it will remove the Facebook birthdays from calendar.
 
T

ty_hot

Member
Trying to reset my 520. Wait for the gears and in the end got a :-( in full screen and back to the gears. Guess something is bad.

How to revive the phone? Which software should I use?
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Klocker said:
Anyone on 10572 on their daily driver with good news to report? Recommend or not?
Thx
Click to expand...

I'm on it. Best it's been so far for me. App crashes still happen on occasion but nothing as bad as it has been previously. Hopefully performance doesn't degrade over time.
 
K

Klocker

Member
Thanks yes, degradation to instability is my biggest concern

Edit:
Question... Is it recommended I do factory reset on daily driver 8.1 before installing preview, after installing or both?
Thanks
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Klocker said:
Thanks yes, degradation to instability is my biggest concern

Edit:
Question... Is it recommended I do factory reset on daily driver 8.1 before installing preview, after installing or both?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Resetting is never a mistake.

Whether it degrades remains to be seen, but so far it has been really great for me.
 
S

SURGEdude

Member
brotkasten said:
Like I said, it's mainly the web developer's fault. But it's also Microsoft's implementation of the fallback that allows something like a redirect to the competitor's app store.
Click to expand...

Spoofing user-agent is a double edged sword even if just as a fallback. Compatibility goes up, but perceived market share goes down.
 
hankster

hankster

Member
SURGEdude said:
Spoofing user-agent is a double edged sword even if just as a fallback. Compatibility goes up, but perceived market share goes down.
Click to expand...
And you are constantly directed to go get almost every web site's app in the Google store. Man that never gets old. Though actually it really really really really does.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
hankster said:
And you are constantly directed to go get almost every web site's app in the Google store. Man that never gets old. Though actually it really really really really does.
Click to expand...

honestly, that annoys me and i actually use Android.

they don't seem to grasp that if i wanted to install their shitty mobile app, i wouldn't be on their website!
 
C

Cipherr

Member
Nikodemos said:
Their two biggest problems were the lack of refreshed flagships and selling the same performance under different guises and pricepoints (in the case of the SD400).
Click to expand...

I sincerely subscribe to the tinfoil hat theory that says that the media coverage they got when trying to launch the 920 (I think that was the one...) hurt them badly. They had been building and building and building waiting for this fucking real launch of a windows phone that would be a flagship, then came the 920, and it was pretty, came in all these colors and had this amazing camera.


But the media and every website and every video on youtube was about the fact that they got caught faking camera footage for their commercial spots. The reflection of the tripod camera, and the photos that came out showing the model in the photo claiming to be taken with the phone was really shot with a real camera also on a tripod.

That shit was poison, you couldn't google anything about these new phones without the idea that they were all a big "phony" being thrown in your face. Had they had an established brand already that sort of minor thing may not have hurt, but they were just trying to get on their feet and that shit was just awwwwful.

Add that to the way they have treated the market since then. I mean damn no flagship for over a year and close to two? It feels like they are sick of trying, and I cannot completely blame them. Another example of how you can have an amazing or even superior product and its just not a guarantee for success.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
Cipherr said:
I sincerely subscribe to the tinfoil hat theory that says that the media coverage they got when trying to launch the 920 (I think that was the one...) hurt them badly. They had been building and building and building waiting for this fucking real launch of a windows phone that would be a flagship, then came the 920, and it was pretty, came in all these colors and had this amazing camera.


But the media and every website and every video on youtube was about the fact that they got caught faking camera footage for their commercial spots. The reflection of the tripod camera, and the photos that came out showing the model in the photo claiming to be taken with the phone was really shot with a real camera also on a tripod.

That shit was poison, you couldn't google anything about these new phones without the idea that they were all a big "phony" being thrown in your face. Had they had an established brand already that sort of minor thing may not have hurt, but they were just trying to get on their feet and that shit was just awwwwful.

Add that to the way they have treated the market since then. I mean damn no flagship for over a year and close to two? It feels like they are sick of trying, and I cannot completely blame them. Another example of how you can have an amazing or even superior product and its just not a guarantee for success.
Click to expand...

November 15th will be exactly two years since the 1520 hit store shelves on AT&T.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
hwalker84 said:
November 15th will be exactly two years since the 1520 hit store shelves on AT&T.
Click to expand...

2 years without a WP flagship from Nokia/MSFT, amazing

At the same time, that's also my weird positive spin for these phones though. At least people that do want Windows Phones (dozens!) will actually have flagships to get.

But then there's one phone and a single carrier in the US, so RIP
 
H

hwalker84

Member
Steelyuhas said:
2 years without a WP flagship from Nokia/MSFT, amazing

At the same time, that's also my weird positive spin for these phones though. At least people that do want Windows Phones (dozens!) will actually have flagships to get.

But then there's one phone and a single carrier in the US, so RIP
Click to expand...

The 950 and XL are being sent out to die. Something else has to be in store sometime next year. They seem like stopgaps for something else.
 
T

Tablo

Member
Just picked up a Lumia 640, coming from a 635 it's way better so far.
60$ from bestbuy not bad.
Gotta say it does feel less solid than the 635 in terms of the shell, and the linkage of the shell and the body. But I have a case on the way so hopefully that helps the feel. Also kinda wish they just put in 16 GB storage though, just a few basic apps installed and maps downloaded, 2 GB left... for real bruh.

When I popped in my old micro-sim (ATT) from 2012 when I got my Lumia 920, it said to go get a new SIM for all capabilities? So guess I'll go to the ATT store tomorrow.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
So I tried to reinstall windows 10 mobile today and it actually worked, but now if I click on an app it does something else and is super slow. If I do a hard reset I know that can fix some issues, but I am wondering will it keep me on windows 10? I have tried to hard to get this to install to have it go back to 8.1.
 
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