... if that's your starting point I'm not having this discussion.
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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1
- Thread starter brotkasten
- Start date
... if that's your starting point I'm not having this discussion.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
But Apple itself isn't doing great with their small tablets, seems like the category could use a reinvention.
The 640. Counting the days to change it (I am actually deciding which Android to buy)
You're missing the purpose of the entire Surface line - to do something new, in completely different ways not done before, to create a market for OEMs which currently doesn't exist.
8-inch mini tablets running Win10 with pen support already exist. They're really shitty for the most part much like the Win8 tablets which came before them, but they do exist.
What would a Surface Mini do that those tablets don't already do? How would they innovate? And how would they get around the severe OS and hardware limitations which are the primary reason why current Win10 tablets are terrible?
The Surface Pro 3 and 4 created an entirely new form factor and soon a booming OEM ecosystem of similar devices. The Surface Book did the detachable laptop in a way OEMs haven't ever done before. The Surface Studio adds a brand new twist to all-in-one PCs.
Canceling the Surface Mini was a very smart move by Satya in retrospect. Today there's even less of a reason to introduce it than ever before.
juliushandle
Member
The cancelles 8" Nokia tablet looked pretty bad ass. It had a Pureview camera hump too, hahahahaha.
I always wanted a good small windows tablet. Thanks to Satya, I will no longer see this dream.
Dell Venue 8 is like...the only good option and shit is outdated.
LukasTaves
Member
True that there's no need for a surface branded mini, but ms needs to take action on the os front so the tablet experience doesn't suck.
Specially when that are giving another go to Windows on Arm.
Are we talking about a Surface Mini that is an exact iPad mini clone except with Windows or are we talking about a Surface Mini with the flourishes that the Surface team usually include with their products? I'm not talking about the Surface Mini that was cancelled, whatever that was. I'm talking about a Surface product that is smaller in size than the existing products and can be an aspirational productivity device.
Also, I present to you a productivity device that many people use everyday.
Edit: I did own an Asus Vivotab with a stylus, that device was heavy, stylus was crappy, and the touchscreen crapped out after a few months. For all the problems with the Surface devices, OEMs usually have worse.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself? You say that the Surface line was created to do something different and new and then continue on using the Surface Book and Surface Studio as examples of products that improved upon what it meant to be a 2-in-1/All-in-One. There were plenty of 2-in-1 PC's before the Surface Book debuted, it just introduced a better way of approaching the concept. I see the Surface line as Microsoft basically improving upon products areas where they feel OEM's are lacking which forces improvement across the board.
If Microsoft wants Windows to be an option on smaller tablets then they need to show OEM's you can make a compelling product that attracts consumers. That has not yet happened yet and it is something that Microsoft should take the initiative with the Surface Mini. Them not having the drive to pursue that kind of a project is basically them saying "Yeah, this form-factor sucks just get a big phone" which is unfortunate since the technology is not yet in a position to support something ambitious like a Surface Phone.
If they bring back effects that mimic glass, is this the end of the "autentically digital" design principle?
Steelyuhas
Member
They're the defaults for everything, so probably a pretty decent number of people.
juliushandle
Member
BMW showed their new Connected Car experience featuring Cortana.
I use OneNote, Email, Calendar, Weather and sometimes the Xbox app.
Astral/H3X
Member
I actually really love the Win10 design language, and would use Win10 apps a lot more... if Edge was better.
As it is though, I spend most of my time in Line, Chrome, Groove, Lightroom, File Explorer, Win10 Email, OneNote, and Word, in that order. So it's kinda off and on when I get to see that.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
BMW showed their new Connected Car experience featuring Cortana.
Did not expect that, very interesting.
Astral/H3X
Member
Real talk, if Smart Watches and cars supported WP better, I probably wouldn't ever have a reason to leave WP.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Yeah, the Fitbit has been a total bust for my brother, basically useless. He asked me today when the update was coming so that he could see notifications on it. Ugh.
Fitbit are still great with their Windows Mobile support. Get regular updates on the app. They can't do much with notifications until MS adds GATT support. Strangely still absent from insider builds.
Fitbit have even stated that they're ready for it internally, and have a plan to let people on insider preview select a different branch of their app, when MS finally implements the APIs, so we don't have to wait for official Windows 10 builds.
So it's on MS alone this lies in my opinion, Fitbit are doing their best to support the platform.
Edit: Btw "Windows Mobile |OT2| 500 pages was too much"
Think this is one of the largest threads on the site by now, no?
lazybum131
Member
Agreed with this. 7-8" Windows tablets didn't succeed because the tech wasn't there to make them actually good. Bay Trail tablets were promising but there hasn't been an all around improvement to them. Cherry Trail improved performance a smidge, but tablets with higher resolution screens have uncompetitive battery life and they do not have acceptable performance to use in a 'docked' scenario as a full PC. Maybe Windows 10 on ARM will change that, battery life will improve and proper USB-C dock implementation would make Continuum work easily.
The Faceless Master
Member
probably the largest non-locked thread
brotkasten
Member
18 months until the Xbox division, as we know it, is gone? What other consumer markets would Microsoft cater to, once that's gone?
Groove?
Groove?
frontieruk
Member
So are we assuming that Xbox is going to be a PC with Xbox compatible certification so ms don't have to make hardware?
n64coder
Member
Did I miss some announcement or thread? Where did this come from?
Speaking of Groove, starting in January my subscription (the free one I still have from Nokia/Virgin Mobile) has stopped authenticating (on Android at least). I've resorted to using Apple Music for the last few weeks since my son and wife already have a family plan (well I own the plan but I had never used it myself), and despite Groove on Android being worse than WP I still prefer it. I almost want to charge up my Zune HD again to give it a go and see if it's still as good as I remember.
Scalebound got cancelled. Brot cancelled Xbox.
They bought and cancelled Nokia with zero fucks given. Scalebound lol.
Yeah, it sucks for those looking forward to it, but it was never on my radar.
There's a fun trend on NeoGAF where people speculate themselves to death about one thing, and then use that wild and baseless speculation to fuel narratives about some other thing.
The current relevant example is on speculated sales of Gears of War 4, Forza, and other holiday 2016 games. The trending and established narrative on NeoGAF now is that those games and others under-performed. Not "failed", per se, but performed a little lower than expected.
Many on NeoGAF take that "under performed" and extrapolate it to mean "catastrophic failure". So to them, Gears of War 4 was a catastrophic failure and an unmitigated disaster, so of course when another game is canceled - one that never demoed well in the first place, and obviously went through tons of turmoil over the years - that is just the icing on the cake for those who already bought into the established narrative. Now it's not just individual games that are at risk, it's the entire Xbox division!
Of course, this entire line of thinking is all predicated on that initial bit of speculation.
The current relevant example is on speculated sales of Gears of War 4, Forza, and other holiday 2016 games. The trending and established narrative on NeoGAF now is that those games and others under-performed. Not "failed", per se, but performed a little lower than expected.
Many on NeoGAF take that "under performed" and extrapolate it to mean "catastrophic failure". So to them, Gears of War 4 was a catastrophic failure and an unmitigated disaster, so of course when another game is canceled - one that never demoed well in the first place, and obviously went through tons of turmoil over the years - that is just the icing on the cake for those who already bought into the established narrative. Now it's not just individual games that are at risk, it's the entire Xbox division!
Of course, this entire line of thinking is all predicated on that initial bit of speculation.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
It's also predicated on lack of open communication from Microsoft and a willingness to pay lip service to projects that already know they have no plans to support moving forward.
Steelyuhas
Member
It's almost like cancelled games are cancelled for a reason, and they weren't coming along swimmingly and on track to be a great final product.
LukasTaves
Member
Pretty much.
Though it hurts, the game sounded like a dream game conceptually at least.
Edit: There are many likewise narratives that are created to make a false point.
Ms is toxic to developers because it *forced* Epic (or many other 3rd parties) to develop games on the series they created.
Or how ms output for 2017 as a publisher is bleak because it can't compete with all the exclusives ps4 will have from many publishers
That's hilarious. UWP is so fucked...
megarockexe
Member
The crappy Windows Phone 7 LinkedIn app has been broken for years. And hasn't been updated since 8.1 was new, I think. It honestly should have been pulled years ago.
But what a state the platform is in. How long has it been on a net loss of substantial apps? I've been so out of the app loop for how long I've stuck with Windows Phone. I've accepted that there will never be any new apps ever.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
I don't get upset or mad when a 3rd party pulls their app. It makes sense for them to not support dead end OS.
But fucking MS? So disgusting when they have better version of Skype, Outlook and now LinkedIn complete gone to other OS. So the bigger picture here is if you cant even convince your own employees to make app for your OS. How in the fuck will you convince others?
My father managed to drop his HTC 8X in such a way that the power button is now proken and permanently pressed. It keeps shutting off/on. I'd like to simply rip out the button, but I'm not sure if/how that works. Might take more disassembly.
On the plus side, it will give him the option to escape this burning platform soon...
On the plus side, it will give him the option to escape this burning platform soon...
Steelyuhas
Member
Would you really call any version of Skype "better" though?
Slack moved their desktop app to the Windows Store though.
http://www.windowscentral.com/slacks-desktop-app-now-available-windows-store
http://www.windowscentral.com/slacks-desktop-app-now-available-windows-store
LukasTaves
Member
The uwp is actually great, but the previous app on winphone was shameful for ms. They should be ashamed that it was what they had to offer for its consumers.
Skype is pretty spotty on every platform indeed, but you can tell there's actual effort there. The previous app was barely functional.
LukasTaves
Member
You can even copy/paste a phone number on the uwp app! And even more magical, edit the number by placing the cursor anywhere you want. Or to shock you all, you can search for your contacts instead of just having a contact list!
As for uwp, I don't know, it indeed looked like it would take off faster than it actually did, but every now and then we are seeing more support, Ms themselves seems slow with some stuff (Correct me if I'm wrong, but for example, the desktop converter isn't widely available still right?) so perhaps that was actually their roadmap?
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Skype on Xbox doesn't work for me. Completely broken. That's the uwp version, right?
LukasTaves
Member
No yet, there's a preview for the uwp version that is said to be compatible with Xbox but won't install.
Yeah, it's ridiculous that those basic features were missing (though I'm pretty sure that you could copy paste numbers in the old app, it just didn't work the way you'd have expected it to).
It's difficult to imagine that they'd have anticipated such slow growth, they must be disappointed and worried.
The desktop converter is not widely available afaik, but I suspect that they anticipated that more "genuine" UWP apps would be developed from ground up rather than just having Win32 programs available in the store.
The last number of active Windows 10 devices released back in September was 400 million - so you would think it's now running on close to 450 or maybe even 500 million. Even if it's just 400 million, that's not insignificant. You'd think that that would be significant enough for companies to at least carefully start to embrace the platform and to start releasing apps and games. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.
I mean it's slowly getting slightly better, but definitely not enough to think that they are making significant progress.
It's difficult to imagine that they'd have anticipated such slow growth, they must be disappointed and worried.
The desktop converter is not widely available afaik, but I suspect that they anticipated that more "genuine" UWP apps would be developed from ground up rather than just having Win32 programs available in the store.
The last number of active Windows 10 devices released back in September was 400 million - so you would think it's now running on close to 450 or maybe even 500 million. Even if it's just 400 million, that's not insignificant. You'd think that that would be significant enough for companies to at least carefully start to embrace the platform and to start releasing apps and games. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.
I mean it's slowly getting slightly better, but definitely not enough to think that they are making significant progress.