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[Lazaro]

I am under the impression that MS expected that W10 would sell a lot more phones, so they announced updates for almost every phone they had (even the old 520 was supposed to get it and then after months they canceled it, but not before releasing some insiders previews for it as well lol). So now that the OS is as dead as it can be, they are not worried about making it run better, specially for non flagship devices (anything other than 950)... It's like they REALLY gave up, but they just can't officially give up.

There was this interview that someone from MS said that they would still work on Windows mobile even though the sales were disappointing because that was the future (ARM processors, battery performance etc), which really translates to: we dont give a fuck about older models, we are doing this so that in the future we can release a cool Surface Book/Phone/Pro with ARM Windows, and to do that we just need to get the 950 running well because the future devices wont be less powerful than that.

I always had problems with those experimental builds - the reason why they are experimental - and never complained much because at least I could see that things were evolving. But in the last 3 months things are not getting better and what worked well now is broken.

The Edge problem is a shame, it crashes when Im surfing Neogaf mobile website WITH PICS TURNED OFF. Seriously. A long time ago (6 monhts?) it would crash only when I was reading one gigantic article from Mother Jones, but other than that it would run just fine everything else.

I have a 640 btw, far from being an awesome phone but I dont see why it CANT EVEN SAVE THE FUCKING PHOTOS I TAKE. The problems I experience seem to be much more related to the software than the hardware (I am not even turning on HDR for photos because that sure is too much for this hardware lol). But right now my phone takes more time to 'process' a normal photo than it used to take a few months ago to process an HDR photo. And yes, I did reset my phone in the meantime...

I'm having the exact same experience with my 640 too. An iPhone 6 is my main phone nowadays, but I noticed the last few builds on the 640 have been absolutely shit like you mentioned.

8.1, Internet Explorer, Lumia Camera was a godly experience compared to this Windows Mobile 10 shit.

 

[NeOak]

8.1, Internet Explorer, Lumia Camera was a godly experience compared to this Windows Mobile 10 shit.

QFT

 

[juliushandle]

650 is likely a good experience but nobody owns that phone.

I ditched my 950xl because basics like maps (Here on Android), Outlook, and even Cortana are now a better experience on Android. 1st party apps on the 950xl are just slow as fuk now that I can't switch back. I will keep the phone though when I need a great low light camera indoors.

 

[ty_hot]

Sorry to hear that you're having so many issues. What is the exact build version you're running? My daughters have 640s and are not having the issues that you're having. Granted, they don't use neogaf but they do a lot of web browsing, youtube, reddit.

I have the 950XL and don't have any issues. I agree that when the 950XL was first released, there was all sorts of software bugs but they have been fixed.

I don't think it was a marketing thing that the older phones were dropped from W10. I think they realized that the memory footprint was too large to support those phones or the processor is too slow.

Im in the slow ring of the insider program (moved from the fast because it was a pain in the ass to have enough space to update every few weeks).

On about device it says:
Version 1607
OS build 10.0.14965.1001

 

[VanMardigan]

8.1 update 2 will forever be the greatest OS for a low end phone. The days of this platform running like a dream on low end hardware are over. Edge and the OS are much less efficient and require lots of memory and processing power.

 

[Funky Papa]

The days of this platform running on hardware are over.

FTFY

 

[n64coder]

Im in the slow ring of the insider program (moved from the fast because it was a pain in the ass to have enough space to update every few weeks).

On about device it says:
Version 1607
OS build 10.0.14965.1001

I'm on the anniversary update. I think you're experiencing some of the hiccups that you get with the insider ring. I would suggest doing a reset and going back to the production builds.

 

[VanMardigan]

FTFY

Whatever dude, just wait until Super Mario Run releases their uwp app.

 

[juliushandle]

New Cortana features on Android.

https://youtu.be/yzfbGjAgky4

 

[ty_hot]

I'm on the anniversary update. I think you're experiencing some of the hiccups that you get with the insider ring. I would suggest doing a reset and going back to the production builds.

I updated to the 'fast ring' and now things seem faster... after a few days of use I will be sure of that, or not.

They had a different camera app before, then they updated to this new version and the app was bad, slow, crashed... then after a few months they fixed it and it was fine. And now after one update that doesnt change anything in the camera app it was complete garbage (to the point that it would crash only by opening it lol).

Now it seems ok. we will see. wierd that the fast ring seems better than the slow one...

Going back to the production build means going back to Windows 8.1 which was released in 2013 and was already dated back then.

 

[n64coder]

Now it seems ok. we will see. wierd that the fast ring seems better than the slow one...

Going back to the production build means going back to Windows 8.1 which was released in 2013 and was already dated back then.

No, by production, I mean Windows 10 Anniversary Update which is 10.14393. That's what I'm on and it's very stable. Yes, there are still some bugs but nothing that can't be overcome.

With the insider builds, you do have the option of choosing production builds instead of slow/fast rings.

 

[ty_hot]

No, by production, I mean Windows 10 Anniversary Update which is 10.14393. That's what I'm on and it's very stable. Yes, there are still some bugs but nothing that can't be overcome.

With the insider builds, you do have the option of choosing production builds instead of slow/fast rings.

Oh ok, I wasnt aware of that. i updated to the fast ring and will give it a try for a week or so. For now it seems much better, no problems with the camera at all. If things go south I will move to that version. thanks for the tip.

 

[n64coder]

Oh ok, I wasnt aware of that. i updated to the fast ring and will give it a try for a week or so. For now it seems much better, no problems with the camera at all. If things go south I will move to that version. thanks for the tip.

The only problem with that is that you can't immediately switch to production if a problem occurs. You will need to wait until production catches up in build numbers.

Fast ring will give you new features but you're on the bleeding edge and there will be bugs/instability. So if you don't want that, then switch to production now. Then you won't get any more fast ring updates and will just stay there until production ring catches up.

Otherwise, if you don't, you'll need to use the device recovery program to wipe out the phone and install the production version of W10.

 

[Paganmoon]

Any way to get maps: Links working with Windows mobile? As in associate it with Windows maps, instead of getting redirected to the store to find an app for it?

 

[VanMardigan]

Happy New year, Windows phone gaf. This community may outlive the platform this year?!?

Real talk, how many of you are willing to get a surface phone if it's announced and released this year?? *Raises hand* I'm totally in, because if they release it, they'll have to put in more effort than they did for the 950 if they're giving it the surface name, right? Unless it's a mini tablet with cell service. In which case I might still get one, maybe.

What I'm most excited for this year on the platform:

-true, integrated messaging platform that works across Android, WP, and windows 10.

-surface phone, or a Microsoft Android phone with Lumia-level imaging

-more mobile apps from Microsoft

 

[Heretic]

Happy New year, Windows phone gaf. This community may outlive the platform this year?!?

Real talk, how many of you are willing to get a surface phone if it's announced and released this year?? *Raises hand* I'm totally in, because if they release it, they'll have to put in more effort than they did for the 950 if they're giving it the surface name, right? Unless it's a mini tablet with cell service. In which case I might still get one, maybe.

What I'm most excited for this year on the platform:

-true, integrated messaging platform that works across Android, WP, and windows 10.

-surface phone, or a Microsoft Android phone with Lumia-level imaging

-more mobile apps from Microsoft

I'm in for a Surface Phone.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

I've already moved onto an iPhone 7 Plus but I'm still keeping an eye out on whatever Microsoft brings out.

 

[hwalker84]

I've already moved onto an iPhone 7 Plus but I'm still keeping an eye out on whatever Microsoft brings out.

Same. I still check this thread almost daily. It's still sad that this is still a 8.1 thread. Please Microsoft put some real effort into whatever phone like device you have cooking up. No compromises maximum effort!!!

 

[n64coder]

Real talk, how many of you are willing to get a surface phone if it's announced and released this year?? *Raises hand* I'm totally in, because if they release it, they'll have to put in more effort than they did for the 950 if they're giving it the surface name, right? Unless it's a mini tablet with cell service. In which case I might still get one, maybe.

I'm quite happy with my 950 XL so I probably won't get the first generation surface phone unless it's really compelling. In that case, I would give my phone to my daughter and get one.

I did sell my Lumia 1020 recently on Ebay for $90. As much as I enjoyed the phone, I wasn't going to use it again and it made sense to get some money. I also sold my daughters' old Lumia 635. One went for $22 (Cricket variant) with shipping when I paid only $29 for it. The AT&T one went for $16. I also have my wife's old 830 up for auction which should close in a couple of days.

Over the summer, my oldest daughter expressed interest in getting a different phone because of Pokemon Go, such as an android one. I recently asked her if she still wanted one for Christmas and she said no, she was happy with her 640.

 

[NeOak]

Still rocking my 1520, will get the Surface Phone.

Might get the Elite x3 before that if my 1520 dies.

Reserved to make the Surface Phone OT when it comes up. I figure that will be the new W10M home when it comes out.

 

[Zeknurn]

I'm still on my 920 and I haven't had a reason to upgrade. All Iphone and Android offer is better specs and more apps, neither of which I care for.

If the next new Surface device does something different in its market like the Surface Pro did, I'll probably get one.

 

[frontieruk]

I'll come back from Apple land for a surface phone and I know a couple of robot users that would too.

 

[brotkasten]

I still don't understand what you guys are expecting from a Surface Phone and how it's supposed to be better than whatever the current platform offers.

E: Also, if some of the new apps are any indication, I'm not looking forward to the refresh of the design language.

They really need to get their UI design shit together.

 

[Paganmoon]

I still don't understand what you guys are expecting from a Surface Phone and how it's supposed to be better than whatever the current platform offers.

E: Also, if some of the new apps are any indication, I'm not looking forward to the refresh of the design language.

They really need to get their UI design shit together.

I guess you can view a Surface phone as a relaunch, with more push behind it from Microsoft.

 

[brotkasten]

I guess you can view a Surface phone as a relaunch, with more push behind it from Microsoft.

Every major OS update was supposedly a "relaunch" for the platform.

2010: Windows Phone 7 (Series), with a touch-friendly, modern, fast and fluid interface (and no legacy or enterprise support at all)!
2011: Windows Phone 7.5, with multi-tasking, copy/paste (because no one really got NoDo in February 2011, "shortly after launch")
2012: Windows Phone 8, with competitive specs and no OS upgrade path (except for the HTC HD2, with the ROM scene proving that it could be done after all)
2014: Windows Phone 8.1, with all major features you could possibly want (peak of the platform)
2015: Windows 10 Mobile beta, with one OS to rule them all (except developers, who couldn't care less anymore)

And so, with the long rumored Surface Phone, it's supposed to be Mighty Morphin Rebootin time again? Again, I can't see what's going to change and how it's supposed to help the platform in any meaningful way.

Why would people switch from Android and iOS to Windows Mobile (again)?
What exactly could make the platform so interesting and good, that it attracts users and developers (again)?
What features could it offer, that aren't available on other platforms (especially Android)?

 

[Zeknurn]

I still don't understand what you guys are expecting from a Surface Phone and how it's supposed to be better than whatever the current platform offers.

E: Also, if some of the new apps are any indication, I'm not looking forward to the refresh of the design language.

They really need to get their UI design shit together.

Like Myerson told MJF, you need to stop thinking of things as phones, PCs and tablets. When you remove the preconceived expectations and limits of these product categories, you open up what you can do with hardware and software.

Microsoft have shown that with the Surface Pro, Surface Book, Surface Hub and now Surface Studio they can make very compelling and profitable hardware. There's nothing hindering them from doing the same with a new smaller Surface device that runs on ARM and has cellular capabilities.

Also, you need to stop thinking on how it will compete with Android and Iphone. Because it never will. The smartphone market is done and dusted. It had a 10 year run and the world is starting to look for the next big shift in personal computing. It might be AI, AR or any other abbreviation. Nadella knows this and it's why Microsoft can't be 3 years late to the party again.

I'm going to make an easy prediction, that at the reveal, they're going to frame it as a new product category because as soon they compare it to the Iphone, they've lost, because sales numbers.

In any case, Windows Phone/Mobile is long dead. It's just going to be Surface running Windows going forward. And in time they might even deemphasize the Windows brand because it's poison unlike Surface.

 

[brotkasten]

Like Myerson told MJF, you need to stop thinking of things as phones, PCs and tablets. When you remove the preconceived expectations and limits of these product categories, you open up what you can do with hardware and software.

Microsoft have shown that with the Surface Pro, Surface Book, Surface Hub and now Surface Studio they can make very compelling and profitable hardware. There's nothing hindering them from doing the same with a new smaller Surface device that runs on ARM and has cellular capabilities.

Also, you need to stop thinking on how it will compete with Android and Iphone. Because it never will. The smartphone market is done and dusted. It had a 10 year run and the world is starting to look for the next big shift in personal computing. It might be AI, AR or any other abbreviation. Nadella knows this and it's why Microsoft can't be 3 years late to the party again.

I'm going to make an easy prediction, that at the reveal, they're going to frame it as a new product category because as soon they compare it to the Iphone, they've lost, because sales numbers.

In any case, Windows Phone/Mobile is long dead. It's just going to be Surface running Windows going forward. And in time they might even deemphasize the Windows brand because it's poison unlike Surface.

In that context, I'd say you're right and admit that I'm a bit too narrow-minded.

I agree that the smartphone market is "done". There's little to no innovation left and it's mostly refinement. Even the last two years felt like simple spec-bumps with little new to show (3D touch came and kinda went again).

The focus seems to shift a little more to Phone VR, which is interesting, but even after buying the new Gear VR (RS-323), I thought it was mostly okay, not good. The pixel density is still way too low, the FOV is too narrow (100° on the new Gear VR), there's no good or natural input solution yet (and fuck Samsung for blocking the DualShock controllers) and I haven't tried an app or game that truly blew me away in terms of the overall experience. I'm sure there are some good ones, but due to the lack of demos, I'll never know (except for "Notes on blindness", which was really interesting and made me a bit more optimistic). 360° videos are the dumbest shit, too. Before the announcement, I thought Google's now called Daydream solution would pave the road for the Android VR market. But with Google resembling Microsoft (of yesteryear) more and more, that also turned out to be a big pile of nothing, with mixed messaging, a super slow roll-out and who knows when it's going to be replaced by a new initiative or even completely binned.

While I certainly like my Surface Pro 4, it didn't necessarily leave a good impression of Microsoft as a hardware manufacturer. That device was plagued with issues at launch and months after it (as was the Surface Book) and I don't care at all who's to blame for that. Microsoft designed and sold the hardware and they knew. What makes it worse is that the previous devices all had a number issues as well (mostly related to WiFi and BT, iirc). Not to mention that Windows 10 is not a good tablet OS at all. I'm honestly surprised that the Surface Studio doesn't seem to have any glaring issues so far, other than the lowest model being too slow for what you're paying.

The reason I keep comparing the potential Surface Phone to the iPhone and Android phones is because I keep asking myself what they could do to make switch from the Galaxy S7 I have right now and I just can't find a good answer, even though I'd love to. Not because I hate my phone, but because I like to try new things. But like I said, I just can't come up with anything that would make sense to me.

 

[hadareud]

I felt the same way about the Surface phone and I still do.

They keep hinting that it will be something fairly different from a normal phone though.

At the end of the day it's for them to find an answer to the question of why you should buy one and whether a new device category is needed at all in the first place. I guess that from the perspective of the smartphone market going into decline the time is ripe to try something new for them. Whether anyone is asking for or is in need of a new category is difficult to say. I suspect not, but then again who knows.

 

[BeforeU]

At this point even with Surface Phone i dont know how MS will ever get the app situation sorted out. Which makes me extremely sad. And I dont mean total number of apps, i mean quality apps. I am not a heavy App guy, after switching to Pixel the only new apps I am using are the banking apps. Rest are all same, Messenger, Netflix, Instagram, Twitter, Spotify, WhatsApp, Some MS app.

And yet my experience is so much btter. All the apps I mentioned opens instantly, gets updated almost monthyly or sometimes sooner. I still find the core OS very boring compare to W10M but man if the apps I use daily are slow as shit. Takes forever to load and takes forever to get updated, the phone is useless

Is there anything MS can do to convince developers? Thats the bigger question for me. No doubt the Surface Phone is coming and will be pretty looking.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I had to move to Android recently, but if they pull out all the stops for a Surface Phone (including a dramatically improved OS and somehow getting that app compatibility working) then I'll be there.

 

[maeh2k]

If they want a Surface "Phone" product to be successful, they can't compete with Android/iOS. It'll never be best smartphone and arrive at a large market share. It needs to a niche device that's perfect for some people.

Maybe a slightly weird productivity-focused device in the vein of the Courier.
Or going all in with Continuum and go after regular office PCs.

The chances that we'll see something ground-breaking that can compete with Android/iOS anytime soon, are slim to none.

 

[ty_hot]

Every major OS update was supposedly a "relaunch" for the platform.

2010: Windows Phone 7 (Series), with a touch-friendly, modern, fast and fluid interface (and no legacy or enterprise support at all)!
2011: Windows Phone 7.5, with multi-tasking, copy/paste (because no one really got NoDo in February 2011, "shortly after launch")
2012: Windows Phone 8, with competitive specs and no OS upgrade path (except for the HTC HD2, with the ROM scene proving that it could be done after all)
2014: Windows Phone 8.1, with all major features you could possibly want (peak of the platform)
2015: Windows 10 Mobile beta, with one OS to rule them all (except developers, who couldn't care less anymore)

And so, with the long rumored Surface Phone, it's supposed to be Mighty Morphin Rebootin time again? Again, I can't see what's going to change and how it's supposed to help the platform in any meaningful way.

Why would people switch from Android and iOS to Windows Mobile (again)?
What exactly could make the platform so interesting and good, that it attracts users and developers (again)?
What features could it offer, that aren't available on other platforms (especially Android)?

I jumped in the Windows platform twice because they offered good cheap hardware. But the software was never good enough. Wont come back to the Windows phone anytime soon (it will probably die in the meantime). Had a 520 (it had the best camera in the price range, with 512 ram) and now I have a 640 (it was also the cheapest with 1gb of ram, 720p screen and a decent camera as well). I wont be fooled again.

 

[clav]

I'll be interested in reading about it.

Unsure due to price + features.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I'll be due for a new phone this year. Likely won't be able to afford a Surface Phone, but we shall see. As far as apps I can still do what I need to do with my XL. Games don't interest me on mobile.

 

[hadareud]

I'm interested to see where they'll take Continuum and if they can make it relevant in the real world.

If you're phone is to be your PC, having to hook it up to a screen and kb & mouse is just one of the use cases and I would say something of a dying one. For work, most people will have a laptop. For home use, who still sits down at a desk to use a PC? Very few people, I suspect.

What if one of the Surface options would be a tablet that is essentially an empty vessel with a touch screen, speakers and a battery that is powered by the phone? A light, relatively low cost high quality screen that can be connected to a typepad or a kb&m when you need it with extremely long battery life that doesn't require upgrading every other year (want more power? buy a new phone every year like you do already). 


 

 

[LostMyNarbles]

I still keep an eye on this thread and will be interested to see what they do with a Surface Phone. I am very satisfied with my iPhone 7 so it is unlikely I switch over, but I want to see what they do to differentiate themselves from what iOS/Android is doing because, the market doesn't seem to have room for another competitor if they are just going to do a slightly altered version of what the competition is doing.

 

[VanMardigan]

I jumped in the Windows platform twice because they offered good cheap hardware. But the software was never good enough. Wont come back to the Windows phone anytime soon (it will probably die in the meantime). Had a 520 (it had the best camera in the price range, with 512 ram) and now I have a 640 (it was also the cheapest with 1gb of ram, 720p screen and a decent camera as well). I wont be fooled again.

What do you have now?

 

[Totakeke]

I still don't know why Surface Mini doesn't exist. I just sold my Surface Pro 3 to a friend because I wasn't using it much with my work laptop and home desktop. So a 7-8" tablet seems like a good device to fit the gap. If a phone comes out that can be something like that I'd be interested. Otherwise I'll probably pick up a iPad mini when the next deal pops up.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I still don't know why Surface Mini doesn't exist. I just sold my Surface Pro 3 to a friend because I wasn't using it much with my work laptop and home desktop. So a 7-8" tablet seems like a good device to fit the gap. If a phone comes out that can be something like that I'd be interested. Otherwise I'll probably pick up a iPad mini when the next deal pops up.

Quite simply, there doesn't appear to be much a market for mini-tablets. When we're talking about a device that's an inch or two larger than people's phones, what's really the point?

 

[Totakeke]

Quite simply, there doesn't appear to be much a market for mini-tablets. When we're talking about a device that's an inch or two larger than people's phones, what's really the point?

There isn't really a big market for surface studios either.

 

[NeOak]

There isn't really a big market for surface studios either.

But you can sell those for prices that take into account the small market.

A mini tablet would gave to go for mass market prices anyway.

 

[Totakeke]

But you can sell those for prices that take into account the small market.

A mini tablet would gave to go for mass market prices anyway.

It would be fine being priced around the iPad mini, is that a mass market price?

 

[Paganmoon]

What's the point of a mini-tablet with no apps?

 

[brotkasten]

It would be fine being priced around the iPad mini, is that a mass market price?

People pay prices for iPads, because they're iPads. The first small Android tablet that was perceived to be as successful as the iPad Mini was the Nexus 7 and that's because it was cheap and didn't suck for its price.

 

[Totakeke]

What's the point of a mini-tablet with no apps?

What's the point of a smartphone with no apps?

I do believe Windows 10 sucks more than Windows 8 as a tablet interface, but that's another story.

People pay prices for iPads, because they're iPads. The first small Android tablet that was perceived to be as successful as the iPad Mini was the Nexus 7 and that's because it was cheap and didn't suck for its price.

If this is about the Surface mini being a big sales accomplishment, I don't really give a shit about that kind of speculation. They could sell only 1℅ of how much iPad mini sells for all I care.

 

[brotkasten]

If this is about the Surface mini being a big sales accomplishment, I don't really give a shit about that kind of speculation. They could sell only 1℅ of how much iPad mini sells for all I care.

You asked if the price of the iPad Mini is a mass market price. When any other tablet, big or small, failed in that price category, then I'd say no.

 

[Totakeke]

You asked if the price of the iPad Mini is a mass market price. When any other tablet, big or small, failed in that price category, then I'd say no.

Okay I was wrong. I don't care about mass market prices nor mass market appeal defined by Apple products.

 

[JaggedSac]

If they want a Surface "Phone" product to be successful, they can't compete with Android/iOS. It'll never be best smartphone and arrive at a large market share. It needs to a niche device that's perfect for some people.

Maybe a slightly weird productivity-focused device in the vein of the Courier.
Or going all in with Continuum and go after regular office PCs.

The chances that we'll see something ground-breaking that can compete with Android/iOS anytime soon, are slim to none.

It would certainly focus on business people and the x86 emulation capabilities.

 

[BeforeU]

At this point we need some leaks/rumors to speculate more lol since March is only couple of months away now, you gotta wonder what they are cooking. I dont think Surface Phone type thing will make it in this event but hey, they can surprise everyone like the Book reveal. But then again I still think Mobile Software isnt ready yet lmao

 

[Paganmoon]

What's the point of a smartphone with no apps?
.

I can still make calls with the phone, and use it as a GPS, without any apps. A Windows mini-tablet wouldn't make sense.