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[A.Romero]

Didn't know Sam Altman was posting on GAF.

AI will have its applications, just not to the wide degree some people imagine. Especially, those who aren't tech literate. Its not a miracle cure or ultimate solution you can slap onto and into every situation. In some cases it hampers the process and procedures more than it helps it.

Regretfully not Altman, I'm just one more IT consultant that has been working with similar tech since about 2017.

Not a miracle solution unless what I described sounds like a miracle to you. If you think telling an AI what you want and it bringing it to you isn't a lower entry point for people than teaching them how to navigate different software packages I'd say we deal with different kinds of people.

I just want my OS to be as clean as possible. I feel like having an embedded AI will just add to the clutter. I don't want the OS "looking over my shoulder" when I'm doing stuff. If you can't handle your own file organization then I don't know what to say. Get an iPad instead.


MOTHER in Alien suddenly makes a whole lot of sense. Not much can go wrong in the system when you can only interface with the AI in it.

Right now it might seem as just adding to the clutter but the objective is to replace the whole interface. A lot of shit can go wrong, for sure.

30 seconds? That's an eternity. I can already search any email I need in Thunderbird with all the search features in less than 30 seconds in most cases. Why would I need AI to do the same thing in 30 seconds?

You need to dream bigger.

Yeah, just an example I thought of because today I spent 30 min tracking an attachment from 3 years ago. But sure, let's say instant or any other scenario you can think of in a similar vein.

 

[Crayon]

Business runs on word, outlook, and teams which are windows apps..

I use the web versions on windows at work because they are ever so slightly less painful.

 

[IAmRei]

That will be hellish for all of us lower class citizens. There will be a time period where the rich will just use robots and AI as much as possible to replace workers, eventually it will sort itself out with some form of hybrid socialist movement, but those 5 to 50 years will suck.

this could be good sci fi story, where lower class vs company & AI war, hmm, good idea

 

[Hypereides]

Regretfully not Altman, I'm just one more IT consultant that has been working with similar tech since about 2017.

Not a miracle solution unless what I described sounds like a miracle to you. If you think telling an AI what you want and it bringing it to you isn't a lower entry point for people than teaching them how to navigate different software packages I'd say we deal with different kinds of people.

(...)

You seem to gloss over the notion some regular people have been sold an aggrandized version of what we call modern day AI is capable off. So, yeah, some out there do perceive it as some kind of "miracle"-solution to their needs and problems. I was being overtly hyperbolic to drive a point home.

Honestly, I'm kinda starting to see why the former Biden administration was holding back on giving it the go. There's way too many unknowns. Its like a rampaging chaotic beast has been let loose without much concerns about guardrails or stability. Its all about pushing forward for the sake of it without thinking about the consequences.

 

[dcx4610]

Microsoft just doesn't understand its audience. They think everyone wants the same thing instead of giving them choices. You have hardcore people that just want to be left alone. Mainstream people that just want their PC to work. Businesses that need stability. There's tons of users out there. Stop forcing crap on people that have no interest in it.

Valve saying "Who are we to say what you do with your PC?" was such a breath of fresh air. I'm hoping Steam OS challenges Windows one day. At least at a consumer level.

 

[Durin]

Nothing about this sounds like it will add any real value in my life, but just another company trading away my data for minor convenience. I don't mind AI in my OS, but I want it completely local and controlled by me, not another cloud service sending data for them to profit off of, while they come up with more sub services for it.

I have more confidence Nvidia will fix the remaining issues I have on Linux before Microsoft craters their OS with copilot slop on the next version. Then Windows will exist solely on my machine for the paltry few apps that needs its compatibility, and Linux will just be my main.

I use the web versions on windows at work because they are ever so slightly less painful.

That's also one of the reasons I'm less worried about app compatibility in the future, when so many of them can just run on a browser if you need them.

 

[IDKFA]

Well, it seems that Microsoft is still determined to turn Windows into an operating system where AI is at the center of everything.

Despite the criticism, I imagine they believe that their users simply don't know what they want and are unable to envision the promising future of AI.

Microsoft (as well as Alphabet, Meta, Amazon etc) have invested tens of billions each in AI R&D. All of them are making AI the centre of whatever they can, regardless if users want it or not.

I wouldn't be shocked if the next Xbox is geared towards AI as well. Remember the Xbox one "TV TV TV", well get ready for the next Xbox to be "AI AI AI......Copilot....AI"

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Maybe one day, people will figure out that Microsoft puts what Microsoft wants in Windows, not what users want

But today is not that day

PSA Mac OS is pretty awesome

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe one day, people will figure out that Microsoft puts what Microsoft wants in Windows, not what users want

/thread

 

[falconhoof]

I did a very short stint as a blockchain consultant. I got into the space reluctantly due to the number of companies I kept meeting who were glossing over their new blockchain solution.

My process was simple:
Go to companies who were looking at blockchain solutions and tell them that they didn't need a blockchain, then point at the existing suite of perfectly functional and mature solutions that they could use instead, saving them money and a lot of tech issues.

The gig didn't last long as I found that these other blockchain consultants I competed against were solving all these problems with this sexy future tech that sounded so much more appealing for the execs to talk about because everyone else was talking about. Fuck you SQL and Git for providing a better solution but without the To the Moon crypto bro puke wrapper.

I say this because this AI shit reeks of the same kind of grift. There's value in AI for sure, as there is in a blockchain, but it's wrapped in so much hot air that these purse holding execs are sniffing that we're in for an inevitable crash out.

 

[A.Romero]

You seem to gloss over the notion some regular people have been sold an aggrandized version of what we call modern day AI is capable off. So, yeah, some out there do perceive it as some kind of "miracle"-solution to their needs and problems. I was being overtly hyperbolic to drive a point home.

Honestly, I'm kinda starting to see why the former Biden administration was holding back on giving it the go. There's way too many unknowns. Its like a rampaging chaotic beast has been let loose without much concerns about guardrails or stability. Its all about pushing forward for the sake of it without thinking about the consequences.

Yes, I agree with you regarding a lot of people overselling what is currently capable of.

Manufacturers need to keep the investment coming so they oversell and everybody is treying to be first at something. A lot of the consumers are already expecting to have some sort of AI functionality there.

Microsoft integrated copilot very early and they have the perfect trojan horse to give OpenAI models the lead by placing them at every computer. This is what they are truly aiming for and while tech is not quite there I don't any reason why it won't get there fairly quickly (as soon as Windows 12 IMO).

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

This is low key INCREDIBLE!!!

This is 18 months out of date compared to what the big houses are using unfortunately. The "pro" tools that only a select few have access to have been churning through entire movie catalogues of companies with the aim at recreating past content for new audience groups. Think breakfast at tiffanies but set in 1970's france starring all french actors and it takes them a month to complete the conversion.

-Uncle who works at Nintendo.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I used YouTube tonight to watch some Japanese videos.

WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THOSE AI DUBS

I hate AI.

 

[Montauk]

This is 18 months out of date compared to what the big houses are using unfortunately. The "pro" tools that only a select few have access to have been churning through entire movie catalogues of companies with the aim at recreating past content for new audience groups. Think breakfast at tiffanies but set in 1970's france starring all french actors and it takes them a month to complete the conversion.

-Uncle who works at Nintendo.

I find that hard to believe. They all have way too much commercial incentive to not get such models out on the market as soon as possible.

 

[IFireflyl]

I find that hard to believe. They all have way too much commercial incentive to not get such models out on the market as soon as possible.

My guy, are you stupid or something? His uncle works for Nintendo. Conversation over.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

My guy, are you stupid or something? His uncle works for Nintendo. Conversation over.

I am the uncle...but also my uncle works here too. So its like double uncle

 

[Montauk]

My guy, are you stupid or something? His uncle works for Nintendo. Conversation over.

Hmmm. Fair enough.

 

[Perrott]

Why doesn't that cocksucker create another OS, calls it something else and leaves Windows alone? Which already has enough troubles trying to do basic OS stuff...

 

[IDKFA]

Yes, I agree with you regarding a lot of people overselling what is currently capable of.

Manufacturers need to keep the investment coming so they oversell and everybody is treying to be first at something. A lot of the consumers are already expecting to have some sort of AI functionality there.

Microsoft integrated copilot very early and they have the perfect trojan horse to give OpenAI models the lead by placing them at every computer. This is what they are truly aiming for and while tech is not quite there I don't any reason why it won't get there fairly quickly (as soon as Windows 12 IMO).

I think it was you who touched on this in another thread, but isn't the goal of all this AI development to be the first company to reach the AGI goal? The enormous capital expenditure of Microsoft and other tech giants for data centres and AI chips etc only makes financial sense if the return is exponentially massive, and AGI would certainly offer that kind of return. I believe you said something along the lines of the company that achieves AGI first is expected to gain a decisive, non-replicable advantage over all others. Maybe this explains this massive push to shove AI into everything possible?

 

[Montauk]

I think it was you who touched on this in another thread, but isn't the goal of all this AI development to be the first company to reach the AGI goal? The enormous capital expenditure of Microsoft and other tech giants for data centres and AI chips etc only makes financial sense if the return is exponentially massive, and AGI would certainly offer that kind of return. I believe you said something along the lines of the company that achieves AGI first is expected to gain a decisive, non-replicable advantage over all others. Maybe this explains this massive push to shove AI into everything possible?

Well, the fear is that a competitor will gain a decisive, non-replicable advantage over them. That they'll have a first mover advantage that will enable them to rocket forward so far and so fast that nobody else will ever be able to catch up.

Nobody really knows what the dynamics will be, though.

 

[A.Romero]

I think it was you who touched on this in another thread, but isn't the goal of all this AI development to be the first company to reach the AGI goal? The enormous capital expenditure of Microsoft and other tech giants for data centres and AI chips etc only makes financial sense if the return is exponentially massive, and AGI would certainly offer that kind of return. I believe you said something along the lines of the company that achieves AGI first is expected to gain a decisive, non-replicable advantage over all others. Maybe this explains this massive push to shove AI into everything possible?

It does sound like something I would say. Thanks for reading it and remembering it.

It goes beyond companies too. If AGI/ASI does pan out it would provide the country holding that tech an advantage over the rest of the nations bigger than nuclear weapons.

And yes, it is definitely one of the reasons Microsoft does what they are doing and what they started investing early in OpenAI. If you think about it right now no other OS has that mix of capabilities (regular OS + AI), if you are running linux or MacOS and want to use LLM's you have to use another app/website but they have the perfect Trojan horse, just like back in the day with Office or IE.

 

[IDKFA]

Well, the fear is that a competitor will gain a decisive, non-replicable advantage over them. That they'll have a first mover advantage that will enable them to rocket forward so far and so fast that nobody else will ever be able to catch up.

Nobody really knows what the dynamics will be, though.

It does sound like something I would say. Thanks for reading it and remembering it.

It goes beyond companies too. If AGI/ASI does pan out it would provide the country holding that tech an advantage over the rest of the nations bigger than nuclear weapons.

And yes, it is definitely one of the reasons Microsoft does what they are doing and what they started investing early in OpenAI. If you think about it right now no other OS has that mix of capabilities (regular OS + AI), if you are running linux or MacOS and want to use LLM's you have to use another app/website but they have the perfect Trojan horse, just like back in the day with Office or IE.

Great posts.

I agree that fear is one of, if not the main, driving force behind the massive, record breaking investments by Microsoft, Amazon, Meta etc. I think the dynamic is not just about being "first" to market, but about being first to create an intelligence that can exponentially improve itself. A company that achieves AGI can immediately direct it to design and train a smarter AGI, then it's just a matter of time before we get a god-like ASI system. Once this loop begins, the gap between the first mover and everyone else widens instantly and to such a degree it'll be impossible to play catch up.

People seem to think that AGI is just a better app, like Chat-GPT on steroids. in reality, we're talking about a system capable of instant self improvement and superhuman problem solving across all economically valuable domains . The rewards for holding such a monopoly on AGI are virtually infinite. It's little wonder insane amounts of money and resources are being thrown around.

There is also the geopolitical dimension to it. We're talking about US companies, and if they hit that AGI goal it would make the US even more of a super power than it is already. If the CCP hit that goal before the US, they become the new world number one super power overnight. It's an AI Cold War where the stakes are not just national influence, but global dominance.

 

[A.Romero]

Great posts.

I agree that fear is one of, if not the main, driving force behind the massive, record breaking investments by Microsoft, Amazon, Meta etc. I think the dynamic is not just about being "first" to market, but about being first to create an intelligence that can exponentially improve itself. A company that achieves AGI can immediately direct it to design and train a smarter AGI, then it's just a matter of time before we get a god-like ASI system. Once this loop begins, the gap between the first mover and everyone else widens instantly and to such a degree it'll be impossible to play catch up.

People seem to think that AGI is just a better app, like Chat-GPT on steroids. in reality, we're talking about a system capable of instant self improvement and superhuman problem solving across all economically valuable domains . The rewards for holding such a monopoly on AGI are virtually infinite. It's little wonder insane amounts of money and resources are being thrown around.

There is also the geopolitical dimension to it. We're talking about US companies, and if they hit that AGI goal it would make the US even more of a super power than it is already. If the CCP hit that goal before the US, they become the new world number one super power overnight. It's an AI Cold War where the stakes are not just national influence, but global dominance.

You are 100% right. This is the point a lot of people are struggling to understand generally. It's not about what's possile now, what companies/countries are striving for is to get to the next step. Nobody really knows if this is the correct path but it is, no one that has the means and the aspirations to not be a follower cannot afford no to at least try.

If anything the sole possibility of AGI/ASI happenning is worth it to put everything they have into it.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

The problem as I see it with LLM AI is that it's trained off of human words, and humans lie all the time. Without even knowing it. So how would you train an AI to seek the truth if it's inputs and the baselines it's judging itself against are incorrect/false/lies?

I would think that AGI would need to be an AI that's trained from first principles. Starting from the smallest irreducible truth and building from that. Like a total redo of human intelligence from the ground up. Am I making any sense?

 

[Sinozen]

These corporate heads are gonna learn the hard way. Nobody wants this at all, not even normies.

AI is of course useful, but not baked in on an OS level. That's just unnecessary.

 

[Hari Seldon]

One of the best uses of AI is to ask it how to do things in Linux.

 

[Sinozen]

Microsoft just doesn't understand its audience. They think everyone wants the same thing instead of giving them choices. You have hardcore people that just want to be left alone. Mainstream people that just want their PC to work. Businesses that need stability. There's tons of users out there. Stop forcing crap on people that have no interest in it.

Valve saying "Who are we to say what you do with your PC?" was such a breath of fresh air. I'm hoping Steam OS challenges Windows one day. At least at a consumer level.

Steam OS is limited to their hardware, so I don't see it as the solution. It's basically just Arch Linux in a KDE desktop environment which you can replicate on any PC hardware. The savior to this situation is Linux in general. Valve's Proton is really the tipping point because you can run any game on Linux without a whole lot of fuss. If you have Nvidia hardware you'll suffer some performance, but it'll run.

Now the average person just needs to see you don't have to be an expert to use Linux, you just need an AI to help you set things up the way you want them.

One of the best uses of AI is to ask it how to do things in Linux.

Bingo. AI can liberate people from this madness. It's the ultimate solution, but can be the ultimate prison if people don't know how to use it.

 

[simpatico]

I can certainly guess since I work with our cyber team super closely and things are getting worse.

The kitten mechanic instagram reels are worth it, frankly.

 

[GreatnessRD]

My way forward when Win 10 support will end. I'm moving to Mac for my work-related tasks already.

Have you decided what distro you plan to move to?

 

[Hector Hall]

All that IA, all those data enters and electricity spent, and 95% people use it for "google" things and ask about weather forecast or food recipes.

 

[LordCBH]

I've come to really fucking hate Microsoft.

 

[Codeblew]

Business runs on word, outlook, and teams which are windows apps..

You forgot the big one: Excel. If Excel didn't exist, I doubt there would be as many companies with their heads so far up Microsoft's ass.

I've come to really fucking hate Microsoft.

I started hating them with their IE shenanigans. I liked Windows 95 though.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Honestly. Valve and Linux smell blood in the water. For gamers I can really see Windows going in the bin over the next 5 years.

If I can run the essential apps, all my games and browse the web. I'd happily ditch windows.

emulation isnt ideal, linux needs to grow its marketshare so it can get native games.

 

[Crayon]

emulation isnt ideal, linux needs to grow its marketshare so it can get native games.

Why?

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

emulation isnt ideal, linux needs to grow its marketshare so it can get native games.

That'll not happen, for multiple reasons. The future of gaming on Linux is Proton and similar solutions.

 

[fallingdove]

Well, it seems that Microsoft is still determined to turn Windows into an operating system where AI is at the center of everything.

Despite the criticism, I imagine they believe that their users simply don't know what they want and are unable to envision the promising future of AI.

What does GAF think about this? Aren't you eager for Windows to focus on what really matters, which is AI? Videogames, system resource management, stability... these are things of the past. AI is all that matters. It's the future.

Source

Nah - fuck AI. It doesn't need to be everywhere. There are some amazing uses for it but I don't want to have to babysit every feature and function of every product to make sure it is doing exactly what I wanted it to.

"Windows move this file to the desktop"

**I moved your file to the desktop and backed it up on the cloud**

"I didn't ask for that, delete the file"

**I deleted your file from the desktop**

The way companies are trying to shoehorn AI into everything to try and appear innovative is maybe the stupidest thing I have seen in tech in 20 years. Just fix Windows 11 so that I can close a program without duplicate instances being created or allow me to update Windows without having to create/sign into an outlook account or stop installing apps without my knowledge assholes.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

If there's anything I learned from cyberpunk books, video games and anime growing up is that at some point it's going to be deeply integrated into virtually everything, including obviously your OS

 

[falconhoof]

I've come to really fucking hate Microsoft.

I think I have the capacity to hate more than just Microsoft.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Why?

Because its performance is behind windows in gaming on top of being terrible with raytracing and Nvidia GPUs.

 

[Crayon]

Because its performance is behind windows in gaming on top of being terrible with raytracing and Nvidia GPUs.

And you think the games being native fixes those naturally?

 

[semiconscious]

why does so much current tech involve shit that has to be foisted on people? whatever happened to creating shit that's just appealing by nature? that people are even willing to line up for? when did it go from making stuff we want to making stuff that fundamentally has to be forced onto us?...

 

[Soodanim]

why does so much current tech involve shit that has to be foisted on people? whatever happened to creating shit that's just appealing by nature? that people are even willing to line up for? when did it go from making stuff we want to making stuff that fundamentally has to be forced onto us?...

It's the monopoly argument all over again. One reason monopolies are bad is they get to do this sort of thing without fear of driving people away because they have the market by the balls.

Linux is my daily driver but I'm under no illusion: Linux is a niche OS category without viable alternatives for various essential software, and until that changes there is no viable threat to Windows as a desktop OS.

At this point it feels like the best chance would be another Valve (good luck with that) doing a similar amount of work back porting the compat of Proton into Wine. But that feels slightly too hacky and prone to error when you're talking about businesses that can't afford to have things go wrong.

 

[Durin]

At this point it feels like the best chance would be another Valve (good luck with that) doing a similar amount of work back porting the compat of Proton into Wine. But that feels slightly too hacky and prone to error when you're talking about businesses that can't afford to have things go wrong.

I've at least had some luck with wine getting Windows apps to work, like this AffinityonLinux installer that's been pretty stable for me, since Affinity is now free to use.

Broader solution seems to be that so many apps are just made in electron, and can be used as web apps in a browser. Someone I work with on MacOS was using the web version of MSOffice because the native apps were giving him trouble.

 

[Bodom78]

It should operate the system, that's it. AI rubbish should be relegated to apps that people can choose to install, external to the OS.

I've never wished for these big tech corps to hurt more then I have since this AI push.

 

[nemiroff]

I unapologetically love it. I already use agentic tools and it has turned my consumption of content into a deeper more efficient experience like no other. An agentic OS would further complement my overarching experience.

With that said, I do have a serious issue with Microsoft in the future of an agentic experience. CoPilot is sometimes like the worst nanny ever due to its role and place in institutions, thus being overprotective against some content (which could lead to legal actions), often blocking processing legit content.

..Which is why I have removed CoPilot and moved onto testing agentic tools like Harpa AI / Sider AI.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

I unapologetically love it. I already use agentic tools and it has turned my consumption of content into a deeper more efficient experience like no other. An agentic OS would further complement my overarching experience.

With that said, I do have a serious issue with Microsoft in the future of an agentic experience. CoPilot is sometimes like the worst nanny ever due to its role and place in institutions, thus being overprotective against some content (which could lead to legal actions), often blocking processing legit content.

..Which is why I have removed CoPilot and moved onto testing agentic tools like Harpa AI / Sider AI.

What do you mean it turned your consumption of content into a more efficient experience? I need explanations. Isn't consumption a passive thing, like you are watching a movie? What is the goal here and what is your workflow?

 

[Three]

It does sound like something I would say. Thanks for reading it and remembering it.

It goes beyond companies too. If AGI/ASI does pan out it would provide the country holding that tech an advantage over the rest of the nations bigger than nuclear weapons.

And yes, it is definitely one of the reasons Microsoft does what they are doing and what they started investing early in OpenAI. If you think about it right now no other OS has that mix of capabilities (regular OS + AI), if you are running linux or MacOS and want to use LLM's you have to use another app/website but they have the perfect Trojan horse, just like back in the day with Office or IE.

The problem is that AGI/ASI would defeat the purpose of an OS and even the person operating that OS hence the pushback. There would be no real need for "Windows" anymore. The people who use an OS want an OS that doesn't spy on them teaching these models to replace them. The old fashioned people just want a machine they operate to perform tasks themselves.

 

[winjer]

Windows 11 Agentic Features Are Security Nightmare, Microsoft Confirms

Microsoft is revamping its Windows 11 operating system to align with the agentic AI era. This update will enable AI agents to manage tasks within the OS based on simple user commands. For instance, if a user wants to order a pizza online, the AI agent can open a web browser, search for a pizza place, and enter the user's credit card information and address. However, Microsoft acknowledges that this capability poses a potential security vulnerability. Upon installing the Windows 11 Build 26220.7262, in Settings > System, you will find a new toggle for "Experimental agentic features" inside the "AI Components." Thankfully, it is an optional feature and requires turning on manually.

Upon enabling this, Microsoft gives you a warning: "These features are still being tested and may impact the performance or security of your device." And the latter is more true than the former, as the security is the number one thing that is of concern. For AI agents, we are seeing the emergence of previously unknown security vulnerabilities. Cross-prompt injection attacks represent a significant example of this trend. In these scenarios, attackers hide malicious directives within ordinary documents or interface elements, effectively hijacking the agent's original instructions and causing it to execute unintended actions. This can cause the AI agent to install malware, give credit card information to third parties, and much more. Check out the optional and experimental feature—courtesy of Windows Latest—below.

Microsoft claims that these AI agents operate within their own "Agentic Workspace." When Windows creates an AI agent and assigns it an instance in this workspace, the agent is given limited access to documents, and its actions are reportedly isolated from the system and auditable. This means users can later review what actions were taken. Microsoft compares this to its Windows Sandbox, but unlike the Sandbox, AI agents persist even after being shut down. By default, when enabled, AI agents have read and write access to the Downloads, Desktop, Videos, Pictures, and Music folders. Although each agent comes with a set of permitted actions, it remains a security concern until Microsoft addresses issues like prompt injections. While these agents will have separate accounts for task execution, this does not fully mitigate the security holes they open.

This crap is a freacking nightmare for privacy, security and performance.
Fuck Microsoft for pushing out such a "feature". This is an actual virus.

 

[The_Mike]

I wish we had a true alternative to Windows.

Linux just lags too many features.