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Winter 2012 Anime Thread 2.22: You Can (Not) Outpost Cajunator

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Steroyd

Member
Another - 1

Finally started watching some of the winter season titles.
Is the lack of a fourth floor on the hospital elevator some foreshadowing of things to come since the number four in Japanese culture is connected with death?

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!

Episode 4 spoilers -
Someone dies via elevator in episode 4.
 
Aww hell no.

How about I say Kunihiko Ikuhara?

Seriously, I do think Mind Game bears a certain resemblance to Mawaru Penguin Drum, as well as Satoshi Kon's Paprika, in that all three works show a creative genius with an overabundance of ideas, who is able to make certain individual scenes which are masterpieces in themselves but the whole package comes off as a lopsided, incoherent mess. (Obviously this flaw is present in each work to different degrees.) It's an unfortunate side-effect of the creative potential of animation - it can be used to create amazingly fantastical worlds but it takes incredible skill and discipline on the part of a director to rein that in to an effective artistic statement.

Another - 1

Finally started watching some of the winter season titles.
Is the lack of a fourth floor on the hospital elevator some foreshadowing of things to come since the number four in Japanese culture is connected with death?

It might be foreshadowing of some sort, but Japanese hospitals typically lack a fourth floor for that very reason.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Paprika > MPD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind Game.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Gintama 250

Yes, Gintama references its own Wikipedia article.

Tis sad. It appears we have two more weeks left before Gintama' comes to a close. Starting April 2 Gintama is being replaced with this. A one year hiatus gave us one years worth of anime before it caught back up to the manga. No word, but I fully expect Gintama to return in 2013. :)
Gintama is over?! :(
Fuck, time to stop watching anime. :(

E2tEyl.jpg

This was such a fun episode too. New Years must be a horrible time of year for cheap bastards.

Kobayashi's Sachan's gift is pretty awesome though.
 
Yeah, this news sucks. I didn't think anything would put a damper on my hype for Spring, but this was it.

I was expecting Gintama' to run a year, so this news doesn't bother me at all. I'd rather speculate on what name Sunrise uses when they bring the show back next year:

Gintama''
Gintama!
Gintama?
Gintama!?
 

Steroyd

Member
Gintama 250

Yes, Gintama references its own Wikipedia article.

Tis sad. It appears we have two more weeks left before Gintama' comes to a close. Starting April 2 Gintama is being replaced with this. A one year hiatus gave us one years worth of anime before it caught back up to the manga. No word, but I fully expect Gintama to return in 2013. :)

Wait wait wait, Gintama is going to get replaced by some Tekken 3 character who was probably cameoing from some other thing I don't know bout.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
How about I say Kunihiko Ikuhara?

Seriously, I do think Mind Game bears a certain resemblance to Mawaru Penguin Drum, as well as Satoshi Kon's Paprika, in that all three works show a creative genius with an overabundance of ideas, who is able to make certain individual scenes which are masterpieces in themselves but the whole package comes off as a lopsided, incoherent mess. (Obviously this flaw is present in each work to different degrees.) It's an unfortunate side-effect of the creative potential of animation - it can be used to create amazingly fantastical worlds but it takes incredible skill and discipline on the part of a director to rein that in to an effective artistic statement.
These are pretty vague and general resemblances... I don't really understand this post. :(
 

cajunator

Banned
Translation: Too messy, lacked focus.

I don't think it was really. I t was easy to follow. the only thing that was convoluted was the whole
inside the whale thing. But that still showed that Nishi was free to do what he wanted once he decided to dictate his own lifestyle
. Its a pretty simple concept for a movie.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't think it was really. I t was easy to follow. the only thing that was convoluted was the whole
inside the whale thing. But that still showed that Nishi was free to do what he wanted once he decided to dictate his own lifestyle
. Its a pretty simple concept for a movie.
Oh I was mostly thinking of Paprika and MPD, which both did suffer from cohesion issues. Mind Game's story is actually pretty straightforward if shallow.
 
Yikes, guess I won't be watching Mind Game if it's that much worse than Paprika.

It's worth watching for the creative visuals, if nothing else.

These are pretty vague and general resemblances... I don't really understand this post. :(

I wouldn't expect you to understand, since you don't care about narrative. The issue I'm talking about is when a work executes ideas brilliantly on a local level but doesn't pay enough attention to long-term pacing and coherency when stitching those ideas together. This creates a structural deficiency that makes the overall work less than satisfying. The works I mentioned are by no means the only ones that suffer from this problem, but they are what came to mind when I was seeking a frame of reference for my overall opinion on Mind Game.

Maybe. I just don't why Naruto and One Piece can run forever but they can run out of Gintama material so quickly. :p

Lots of filler and sloooow pacing.
 
Maybe. I just don't why Naruto and One Piece can run forever but they can run out of Gintama material so quickly. :p

Other long running shounen incorporate lengthy filler arcs from time to time. When they do canon material, it's normally reasonably paced with the manga, usually going at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. The exception is OP which as of late has been going at a 1:1 and 1.5:1 ratio and doing virtually no filler, but OP chapters are also generally packed with more content so they can get away with it even if it messes up the pacing a bit.

I haven't read the Gintama manga, but I imagine Sorachi doesn't exactly put the most content into each chapter, particularly during the serious arcs. They could be going at a 4:1 ratio for all we know. They also are relatively short arcs compared to other long-running shounen, and so the series can't get away with long filler arcs.

Really can't think of any other reason why a mostly episodic show can get caught up so quickly.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's worth watching for the creative visuals, if nothing else.
You can scour youtube clips for "creative visuals".

Indeed for some people *coughpizzarollcough* it is the only way to watch One Piece or Naruto.
 

Mecha

Member
Ohmanohman I need this. It saddens me that nobody is talking about it, not even /m/.

I don't even expect the show to be that great, but it's the first super robot show in a long time that looks like its made by people who give a damn about them.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Lots of filler and sloooow pacing.


Other long running shounen incorporate lengthy filler arcs from time to time. When they do canon material, it's normally reasonably paced with the manga, usually going at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. The exception is OP which as of late has been going at a 1:1 and 1.5:1 ratio and doing virtually no filler, but OP chapters are also generally packed with more content so they can get away with it even if it messes up the pacing a bit.

I haven't read the Gintama manga, but I imagine Sorachi doesn't exactly put the most content into each chapter, particularly during the serious arcs. They could be going at a 4:1 ratio for all we know. They also are relatively short arcs compared to other long-running shounen, and so the series can't get away with long filler arcs.

Really can't think of any other reason why a mostly episodic show can get caught up so quickly.


I wouldn't mind if they hired writers to make anime original stand-alone comedy episodes. Surely some of the episodes are anime original anyway, like the two "clip" shows.

Ah well, maybe it's a good opportunity to rewatch the series or something.
 

madp

The Light of El Cantare
Maybe. I just don't why Naruto and One Piece can run forever but they can run out of Gintama material so quickly. :p

One Piece has had shit pacing for a long time. Can't speak for Naruto.

edit: beaten, but that's what I get for waiting ten minutes to hit submit, hah.
 
I wouldn't mind if they hired writers to make anime original stand-alone comedy episodes. Surely some of the episodes are anime original anyway, like the two "clip" shows.

Ah well, maybe it's a good opportunity to rewatch the series or something.

Well if you absolutely need a long-running series to start up again, I can think of one :D
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
I wouldn't expect you to understand, since you don't care about narrative. The issue I'm talking about is when a work executes ideas brilliantly on a local level but doesn't pay enough attention to long-term pacing and coherency when stitching those ideas together. This creates a structural deficiency that makes the overall work less than satisfying. The works I mentioned are by no means the only ones that suffer from this problem, but they are what came to mind when I was seeking a frame of reference for my overall opinion on Mind Game.
Wrong; I do care about narrative depending on whether the work cares about the narrative. I don't knock points off for lack of narrative, so to say. Nor do I add points to an otherwise middling or mediocre work for an excellent narrative. I also do care (a lot) about editing & such, which falls in with what you're talking about. But the three works you named all have vastly different issues; it's just a weird comparison really.
 

-Minsc-

Member
One year is worth the wait if we get an episode on the level of the Gintama' return.

Oh I say it will be. While I don't know many details, the arc which immediately followed the recent Thorny arc is said to be a perfect candidate for a hiatus return. I happened to see the recent manga cover art so I have a general idea that the "something" that happens. This "something" should be very interesting indeed.
 
Oh I say it will be. While I don't know many details, the arc which immediately followed the recent Thorny arc is said to be a perfect candidate for a hiatus return. I happened to see the recent manga cover art so I have a general idea that the "something" that happens. This "something" should be very interesting indeed.

Something that will actually change up the status quo?
 

cajunator

Banned
You're encouraging the trend of only releasing physical copies of anime in stupidly expensive boxsets that I will never, ever purchase.

I've always bought stupidly expensive anime sets. Just up till this point nothing was ever priced near Japanese levels. I always used to buy the special edition sets with extra shit in them like pencil boards and hats and shirts. I still have those shirts and hats actually. I like all the extra stuff, its fun to collect. In this case, it was difficult because nothing about the set really screams out "This is worth 400 bucks".
 

-Minsc-

Member
Something that will actually change up the status quo?

It's Gintama, likely not by the time the arc is over. That said, for the duration of the arc there definitely should be a "WTF is going on?" feeling Gintama' had when it returned. Other than the character that appears on the cover art, I know nothing else about the arc.

Edit: And yes, you've seen this character before (in a sense). No, it isn't any of the villains.



(needless hype)
 

Jex

Member
How about I say Kunihiko Ikuhara?

Seriously, I do think Mind Game bears a certain resemblance to Mawaru Penguin Drum, as well as Satoshi Kon's Paprika, in that all three works show a creative genius with an overabundance of ideas, who is able to make certain individual scenes which are masterpieces in themselves but the whole package comes off as a lopsided, incoherent mess. (Obviously this flaw is present in each work to different degrees.) It's an unfortunate side-effect of the creative potential of animation - it can be used to create amazingly fantastical worlds but it takes incredible skill and discipline on the part of a director to rein that in to an effective artistic statement.

I'd certainly agree that structure, editing (as in cutting stuff out of your work) and restraint are really important in creating your works. To carry your discussion further, just look at Nisemonogatari - it's overindulgence directly led to sever pacing problems with the work (for myself and others). The whole "more is less" adage is true in many circumstances - it's usually harder to cut a work down and make it tighter than to have a sprawling work.
 
Wrong; I do care about narrative depending on whether the work cares about the narrative. I don't knock points off for lack of narrative, so to say. Nor do I add points to an otherwise middling or mediocre work for an excellent narrative.

Which is to say you don't really care about the quality of the narrative itself; you care about the quality of the direction, art, animation, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. People have different methods of approaching and judging art and entertainment. Personally, I will appreciate a work with noteworthy writing and story even if the direction and visuals aren't particularly noteworthy, as is the case with Spice and Wolf and parts of LoGH. On the other hand, while I have no problem with purely abstract works, I do take issue with narratives that feel half-completed even if other aspects of the work are consistently strong, as is the case with Casshern Sins.

I also do care (a lot) about editing & such, which falls in with what you're talking about. But the three works you named all have vastly different issues; it's just a weird comparison really.

I'll admit it's a broad issue which manifests itself in different ways, but I think it's one worth thinking about and something which leads to the same sort of reaction from myself after finishing a work.

I'd certainly agree that structure, editing (as in cutting stuff out of your work) and restraint are really important in creating your works. To carry your discussion further, just look at Nisemonogatari - it's overindulgence directly led to sever pacing problems with the work (for myself and others). The whole "more is less" adage is true in many circumstances - it's usually harder to cut a work down and make it tighter than to have a sprawling work.

Yes, Nisemonogatari is another example of what I'm talking about (on an even lower level).
 

NewFresh

Member
Seeing Mad Pierrot reminded me....

Real Drive Ep.01

Right off the bat the show looked crisp, that would probably be the best word to describe it. Then They started talking about the earths bio-rhythm and I started to become less and less interested. I started to drift off into sleep WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN...

She showed up.

What?! A full figured woman in anime who is also a badass fighter! Man, this is great, I really hope the show doesn't completely invalidate it's efforts to include women of different proportions by basically fetishisizing them and having them identify as heavy....
.
.
.
.
.
.

Then the show goes all in with the ocean science biorhythm stuff and I lost interest.

Thanks for the recommendation Mad Pierrot :p
 

Jex

Member
Paprika > MPD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mind Game.

Every time I watch Paprika I dislike it more, so I can't stand by this assessment. It's got so many crippling problems that I'd have trouble recommending it to anyone.
 

7Th

Member
Seeing Mad Pierrot reminded me....

Real DriveWhat?! A full figured woman in anime who is also a badass fighter! Man, this is great, I really hope the show doesn't completely invalidate it's efforts to include women of different proportions by basically fetishisizing them and having them identify as heavy....

To be fair, she only said that she is heavy
because she is a robot.
The show still feels like the prelude to porn most of the time, though.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Every time I watch Paprika I dislike it more, so I can't stand by this assessment.
How would you rank them?

Keep in mind that I strongly dislike Mind Game because of its overindulgence in what I can only describe as hipsterdom.
 

Steroyd

Member
Natsume S4 - 11

KnYyE.jpg


Not even Natsume can escape the x-rated toothbrush scene.

Well call me a shocked, an episode about Natsume's past that delves into something other than his isolation from making friends vs Youkai... his immediate family, which I thought was very well done, in how he deals with how despite having little memory of his parents, remembering what little he did and coming to a resolution which sets up for the next episode.
 

NewFresh

Member
To be fair, she said she is heavy
because she is a robot.
The show still feels like the prelude to porn most of the time, though.

They didn't actually make that clear until later in the episode. I was really expecting the staff to be ex-doujin creators after watching the first episode.
 
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