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Winter 2014 Anime |OT| I've got to find a dandy guy who killed my dad in the space

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Branduil

Member
sonicmj1 said:
Pearl Harbor was the logical conclusion of Japan's imperial policy in the 30s. And the US oil embargo on Japan that forced it was a logical conclusion of the cozy relationship the US had with the Chinese at that time.

As I said, I appreciate the sentiment they were going for, but boiling down an incident like that into something started by an evil moron ignoring everyone around him for no reason doesn't serve anyone well.
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Yes, if you're talking about Pearl Harbor, both Japan and the U.S. had incentives for their behavior. There's no incentive to just
attack the first alien race to visit you without knowing a single thing about them.
It's irrational and serves no purpose.
 
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firehawk12

Subete no aware
KuwabaraTheMan said:
I don't think they 'count' from the perspective of saying Okada is actually good (she isn't), I was just pointing out that there are some really good shows she worked on that more people should see.

Hanasaku Iroha wasn't perfect, but aside from the film episodes I find it hard to find too many large faults with it, and for the most part I found the story and characters quite engrossing.
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Way too many tone shifts and jdrama moments. I still remember my breakdown after the Tokyo arc. :p

sonicmj1 said:
Pearl Harbor was the logical conclusion of Japan's imperial policy in the 30s. And the US oil embargo on Japan that forced it was a logical conclusion of the cozy relationship the US had with the Chinese at that time.

As I said, I appreciate the sentiment they were going for, but boiling down an incident like that into something started by an evil moron ignoring everyone around him for no reason doesn't serve anyone well.
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You could also say it was human hubris or flaw that started that entire war in the first place. Either way, I'm sure the Japanese consider it a massive mistake that ruined a generation for them.

Geneijin said:
Aquarion Evol never existed.
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It's the dog!

Branduil said:
I don't think it's a very interesting twist, though, because
the Garmilons' response is still massively disproportionate and unjustified. All it tells me is that there's some crazy UN guy who's obsessed with attacking the first aliens who wander into the Solar System.
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I think it's more about the consequences of their actions. Besides, to me the interesting thing isn't
who shot first. It's the fact that it's been covered up for years. Much like the Emperor convincing his people that Japan was crushing America in the Pacific.
 
B

Branduil

Member
firehawk12 said:
I think it's more about the consequences of their actions. Besides, to me the interesting thing isn't
who shot first. It's the fact that it's been covered up for years. Much like the Emperor convincing his people that Japan was crushing America in the Pacific.
Click to expand...

I think it's only interesting in that it's disappointingly weak writing meant to make us think about the "ambiguities" of good and evil in war. I expect more from this show.
 
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Branduil

Member
Geneijin said:
Aquarion Evol never existed.
Click to expand...

iUzG95MmLhXdF.jpg
 
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firehawk12

Subete no aware
Branduil said:
I think it's only interesting in that it's disappointingly weak writing meant to make us think about the "ambiguities" of good and evil in war. I expect more from this show.
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Maybe I have lower expectations because syfy is shit, but I was pleasantly surprised that this show wasn't just a 70s cartoon.
 
D

dakkumauji

Member
Nodame Cantabile Finale 04

GXsKBfPl.jpg


Hehe, Nodame in control for once.

I also enjoyed all the Tanya character story thing going on. I might not remember everything but these characters, but I am still enjoying all of this.
 
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Gazoinks

Member
From the New World 12

You know... I think this show might be a bit dark.

Another interesting infodump.
Learning about Ogres and Demons and, more importantly, the extent society goes to minimize their appearance. I really liked that it was done from a sympathetic viewpoint, because too often in this sort of story "the man" is portrayed as super evil and oppressive for no reason.
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
I don't remember Nodame Cantabile ending especially mooshi, but decently so. It was a fantastic show and the character development for the most part I remember being great. Might eventually rewatch.
 
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Branduil

Member
firehawk12 said:
Maybe I have lower expectations because syfy is shit, but I was pleasantly surprised that this show wasn't just a 70s cartoon.
Click to expand...

One of my pet peeves in writing is when a characters acts irrationally and unbelievably evil just for the sake of trying to draw moral equivalencies. People don't just act evil for no discernible reason, they do it because they think they'll get something out of it.

Gazoinks said:
From the New World 12

You know... I think this show might be a bit dark.

Another interesting infodump.
Learning about Ogres and Demons and, more importantly, the extent society goes to minimize their appearance. I really liked that it was done from a sympathetic viewpoint, because too often in this sort of story "the man" is portrayed as super evil and oppressive for no reason.
Click to expand...

Case in point, here's an example of a show which did the opposite of what Yamato did in episode 11. I personally think the human society portrayed in FTNW is hopelessly flawed and monstrous, but they actually do have reasons for everything they do.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Branduil said:
One of my pet peeves in writing is when a characters acts irrationally and unbelievably evil just for the sake of trying to draw moral equivalencies. People don't just act evil for no discernible reason, they do it because they think they'll get something out of it.
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I just assumed he was a glory hound. I mean, I've seen enough WW2/Vietnam War movies where the unreasonably aggressive douchebag officer is just as much as a trope as the tsundere imouto who loves her brother.
 
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Gazoinks

Member
Branduil said:
Case in point, here's an example of a show which did the opposite of what Yamato did in episode 11. I personally think the human society portrayed in FTNW is hopelessly flawed and monstrous, but they actually do have reasons for everything they do.
Click to expand...

Haha, yeah, I thought it was kinda funny I posted that shortly before you did. I agree with you on villains and this bit in Yamato. I appreciate they made the effort to add some ambiguity, but they didn't really go far enough to fully develop it.
 
B

Branduil

Member
firehawk12 said:
I just assumed he was a glory hound. I mean, I've seen enough WW2/Vietnam War movies where the unreasonably aggressive douchebag officer is just as much as a trope as the tsundere imouto who loves her brother.
Click to expand...

Well, emphasis on war movies there, LOL. I still don't think that makes sense. I mean, let's look at the possibilities.
1. The aliens are evil and can be easily defeated by a first attack.

-Well if you kill them all first, how would you even know? A lot of people would be unhappy about you just slaughtering a bunch of aliens with unclear intentions.

2. The aliens are peaceful.

-And now you just screwed over your relations, dumbass.

3. The aliens are evil and more powerful than us.

-The events of the series happen.

Not a single one of them results in something good. There's also no material gain to the Earth.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I'm only halfway through Yamato but I have to agree with Branduil that the "twist" revealed in Episode 11 comes off as mustache-twirling of the highest order and seems really out of place in this show. If more light isn't shed on that moment, it will likely be a permanent mark on that series (maybe not a HUGE mark but a mark nonetheless).
 
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Branduil

Member
I mean, it could have even been made more believable with just a couple tweaks of the writing.
If the aliens entered, say, Earth orbit, without making contact or some kind of sign of their intentions, I could understand someone freaking out and ordering an attack. But way out at Pluto, no.
 
D

duckroll

Member
I think that specific flashback discussed is pretty hamfisted and kinda dumb, for sure, but I think it's also important to look at the fact that the story doesn't dwell on it nor do the motivations there really matter at this point. The purpose was to present a scenario to the actual characters in the show, and study how they deal with it. That's why it didn't bother me. There are definitely a few points on Yamato 2199 where the writing gets a bit lazy when they try to get the story into a certain particular position, but the actual developments they want to focus on ends up more than making up for it.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Branduil said:
Well, emphasis on war movies there, LOL. I still don't think that makes sense. I mean, let's look at the possibilities.
1. The aliens are evil and can be easily defeated by a first attack.

-Well if you kill them all first, how would you even know? A lot of people would be unhappy about you just slaughtering a bunch of aliens with unclear intentions.

2. The aliens are peaceful.

-And now you just screwed over your relations, dumbass.

3. The aliens are evil and more powerful than us.

-The events of the series happen.

Not a single one of them results in something good. There's also no material gain to the Earth.
Click to expand...

And yet the Europeans had no problem fucking over everyone in North America during their First Contact encounters. :p
Although, I suppose I don't know if they decided to slaughter everyone first or if they took the time to realize their superiority before wiping them out.

And sure, I compare fiction to other fiction. Especially milsyfy which is really just WW2 in space anyway.


Admiral Woofington said:
Obviously the platoon is entirely consisted of clones of the WWII/Vietnam era imouto tsundere military officer, therefore making him her and their brother.

Keep up man this is elementary anime logic.
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The baka... the baka...
 
G

Gazoinks

Member
duckroll said:
I think that specific flashback discussed is pretty hamfisted and kinda dumb, for sure, but I think it's also important to look at the fact that the story doesn't dwell on it nor do the motivations there really matter at this point. The purpose was to present a scenario to the actual characters in the show, and study how they deal with it. That's why it didn't bother me. There are definitely a few points on Yamato 2199 where the writing gets a bit lazy when they try to get the story into a certain particular position, but the actual developments they want to focus on ends up more than making up for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's my general feeling. I think I mentioned this in my series review, but one of my (few) problems with the show was that it at times gave in to contrivance. It's a small thing in the greater scale of the show though.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
duckroll said:
I think that specific flashback discussed is pretty hamfisted and kinda dumb, for sure, but I think it's also important to look at the fact that the story doesn't dwell on it nor do the motivations there really matter at this point. The purpose was to present a scenario to the actual characters in the show, and study how they deal with it. That's why it didn't bother me. There are definitely a few points on Yamato 2199 where the writing gets a bit lazy when they try to get the story into a certain particular position, but the actual developments they want to focus on ends up more than making up for it.
Click to expand...
It's pretty much the equivalent of learning that
9/11 was an inside job
.
#truthisoutthere
 
B

Branduil

Member
firehawk12 said:
And yet the Europeans had no problem fucking over everyone in North America during their First Contact encounters. :p
Although, I suppose I don't know if they decided to slaughter everyone first or if they took the time to realize their superiority before wiping them out.

And sure, I compare fiction to other fiction. Especially milsyfy which is really just WW2 in space anyway.
Click to expand...

Well yeah because the Europeans wanted their lands. The Garmilons are basically Europe in this analogy, which would make Earth the Native Americans. So it's like if
the Native Americans rowed out in canoes and shot arrows at Christopher Columbus before he even reached land... which they probably should have done, but there's no way for them to know that!

I don't have a problem with the idea, the problem is that there's dozens of ways they could have written it to make it believable, instead of just a guy being evil for no reason.
 
S

sonicmj1

Member
duckroll said:
I think that specific flashback discussed is pretty hamfisted and kinda dumb, for sure, but I think it's also important to look at the fact that the story doesn't dwell on it nor do the motivations there really matter at this point. The purpose was to present a scenario to the actual characters in the show, and study how they deal with it. That's why it didn't bother me. There are definitely a few points on Yamato 2199 where the writing gets a bit lazy when they try to get the story into a certain particular position, but the actual developments they want to focus on ends up more than making up for it.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that. The important thing isn't the exact circumstances of the flashback, but the fact that certain characters didn't know the whole truth, or that other characters allowed a lie to flourish. So while I still think it's at the very least dumb and hamfisted, it doesn't color my feelings about the show too much.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Branduil said:
I don't have a problem with the idea, the problem is that there's dozens of ways they could have written it to make it believable, instead of just a guy being evil for no reason.
Click to expand...

They probably didn't even intend to make him "evil" so much as just a frightened and stupid guy in command. But -damn- that character design sure didn't help. Lol!
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Branduil said:
I don't have a problem with the idea, the problem is that there's dozens of ways they could have written it to make it believable, instead of just a guy being evil for no reason.
Click to expand...
That's fair, but it's also just a trope. I mean, both Band of Brothers and Generation Kill are based on real life and both had a character that was exactly like that.

Sure, they could have done a whole backstory on the guy.
Maybe he wanted glory and was looking for an excuse to get a promotion? That's the classic trope when it comes to the asshole douchebag officer who gets people killed.
But the point, as duckroll suggested, is the effect of the revelation on the crew of the Yamato, not the event itself.
 
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hosannainexcelsis

Member
duckroll said:
They probably didn't even intend to make him "evil" so much as just a frightened and stupid guy in command. But -damn- that character design sure didn't help. Lol!
Click to expand...

I never got the impression that he was being "eeee-vil", just that he was
in a "fire before they fire at us" mood. Having been reading a lot about the outbreak of World War I lately, that's unfortunately a motivation I find very believable.
 
B

Branduil

Member
duckroll said:
They probably didn't even intend to make him "evil" so much as just a frightened and stupid guy in command. But -damn- that character design sure didn't help. Lol!
Click to expand...

Well, sure, but like I said, even just the tweak I mentioned a few posts ago would have made it far more believable.

hosannainexcelsis said:
I never got the impression that he was being "eeee-vil", just that he was
in a "fire before they fire at us" mood. Having been reading a lot about the outbreak of World War I lately, that's unfortunately a motivation I find very believable.
Click to expand...

But WWI was the result of tensions that had been brewing for decades(if not centuries). Unknown aliens approaching the Solar System isn't precisely applicable. Obviously, there'd be fear and doubt, but when you literally know nothing about who you're up against,
just blindly attacking makes no sense.
 
G

Gazoinks

Member
From the New World 13

Poor Mamoru. Why is he targeted for elimination? Is his personality that unstable? And what was with magic tornado? Looks like the memories might be coming back in any case.

This episode was kinda janky-looking. Nice snowy backgrounds though.
 
B

Branduil

Member
Gazoinks said:
From the New World 13

Poor Mamoru. Why is he targeted for elimination? Is his personality that unstable? And what was with magic tornado? Looks like the memories might be coming back in any case.

This episode was kinda janky-looking. Nice snowy backgrounds though.
Click to expand...

I think the only surprising thing about Mamoru is that
he wasn't targeted sooner
, LOL.
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
Branduil said:
But WWI was the result of tensions that had been brewing for decades(if not centuries). Unknown aliens approaching the Solar System isn't precisely applicable. Obviously, there'd be fear and doubt, but when you literally know nothing about who you're up against,
just blindly attacking makes no sense.
Click to expand...

It's not a perfect analogy, but it's good enough for me to accept what happened. Humans aren't always rational.
 
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CorvoSol

Member
Hyouka 1


Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii don't think this show is for me guys. I mean, is there a hook, or a twist, or a change coming up? Or is this the premise of the show? Cuz, with all due respect, and in every hope not to overly judge a show I have only seen a single episode of, it felt really . . . cliche? Generic? Done? I'm not sure what the right word is but a disaffected teenager roped into a romance with a manic girl and an investigation of the X wonders of mundane place Y are all really standard plot mechanisms in anime, and while the show looked nice enough, there didn't really seem to be much of note there. It wasn't bad, but based on the first episode it doesn't really seem that interesting to me.

You may now begin to commence the heckling of my bad taste.
 
K

KirbYuuYuu

Member
CorvoSol said:
Hyouka 1


Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii don't think this show is for me guys. I mean, is there a hook, or a twist, or a change coming up? Or is this the premise of the show? Cuz, with all due respect, and in every hope not to overly judge a show I have only seen a single episode of, it felt really . . . cliche? Generic? Done? I'm not sure what the right word is but a disaffected teenager roped into a romance with a manic girl and an investigation of the X wonders of mundane place Y are all really standard plot mechanisms in anime, and while the show looked nice enough, there didn't really seem to be much of note there. It wasn't bad, but based on the first episode it doesn't really seem that interesting to me.

You may now begin to commence the heckling of my bad taste.
Click to expand...

Just keep watching.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
nintendoman58 said:
I just need to see his reaction to episode 12. I swear, I don't know what to say about it without spoiling it. Saying that the episode is
jaw-dropping
feels like a spoiler in of itself, so I spoiler-tagged that.

Not taking any chances.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. So many episodes are like WHOA.

Syrinx said:
It was kinda funny how she entered the ring against that assassin guy, and the first thing she did was ask him questions about why he came and if he knew about the country's custom of making newcomers compete as gladiators (there are other words you can use to describe it, but just custom for now).

If she does aim to change it, I guess it's just because she sees this country as just straight fucked up. But she didn't really seem to bat an eyelash when that one country was going to blow the crap out of that other one because of something about that "prophecy" or whatever. I dunno, I should watch part 2 first, but not tonight.
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I think youll like the conclusion.

FelixOrion said:
I saw this today and immediately thought of this post, for some reason.

212.gif
Click to expand...

This is so cuuuute
 
K

killer rin

Member
Chuunibyou 2
Oh I'm so happy this is back! I loved the first season and this one is off to a great start. Some really good animation.
 
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