I think for me, the way I see it is... it's a flashback told from the point of view of an officer on the bridge who wasn't privy to the reasons behind the order. Thus having no personal context of what went on behind the scenes, it is what it is. It can be irrational, random, stupid, or whatever, but what matters is that it happened.
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Winter 2014 Anime |OT| I've got to find a dandy guy who killed my dad in the space
- Thread starter Branduil
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I think for me, the way I see it is... it's a flashback told from the point of view of an officer on the bridge who wasn't privy to the reasons behind the order. Thus having no personal context of what went on behind the scenes, it is what it is. It can be irrational, random, stupid, or whatever, but what matters is that it happened.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I called it the anime version of House when I first watched it. lol
Honestly, it's probably as close as anime will ever get to that kind of relationship/character dynamic because 99% of anime characters have to be high school aged.
Beyond what Branduil has already argued and even if learning "the truth" isn't something that resonates through the entire arc of the narrative, a lingering problem I have with that entire plot contrivance is that if the Garmillan military empire is hell-bent on galactic conquest anyway and were only
, it seems especially purposeless to undermine the moral superiority of mankind for the obviously false insinuation that
.
initiating "peaceful" first contact insofar that they were going to present to Earth the option of becoming a second-class Garmillan fiefdom with the alternative of total extermination
mankind may have faced a different future if they hadn't shot first
I'm gonna trust you on this one, but I really didn't feel much coming out of that episode.
Squealer is kawaii
They're not, but a thing like a military is designed to minimize individual irrationality in favor of a collective goal. I don't believe a decision like
attacking unknown aliens would be left up to one dude, and I don't believe that a collective decision would be that irrational without a clear goal in mind.
"Way out at Pluto" is meaningless in a world with FTL travel.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
First episode or two might take some getting used to. At least give it through the end of the first arc in Episode 5. Hyouka is really driven by the character interactions and dialogue and the way the mysteries reflect on their lives. I think you can get a better sense for what the show is going for after a few episodes.
At any rate, it's not really cliche. Hyouka's type is one that it isn't really seen very often at all.
That's pretty much it. It gets better... but it doesn't really change.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
If you want a bit of an extended thing from me, yeah, I had the same feeling, more on the dialogue, in where it's shoving a bunch of themes down your throat, which feels rather unnatural to me, and the dialogue kind of reminded me of KnK... well, mostly when Satoshi didn't shut up. That being said, that greatly diminishes after the first arc, and you should find some joy coming from this.
The show in general, is character driven. That's pretty much Hyouka honestly.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It doesn't fundamentally change, but I think most people would say it gets more interesting as it goes along. Still, if you're not interested in seeing slow, careful character development, you probably won't enjoy most of the show.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I believe part of that is playing on expectations. If you remember the very first episode of the series, we are told - through Yuki's classroom session with the kids - that they were attacked unprovoked and that the aliens are evil for the sake of being evil. This is also what we, as the audience, expect because either you've seen the original series or you know that this is a remake of a 70s cartoon with a very simple sense of morality.
As for the outcome, we just have no idea. If you want to push the Japanese allegory further,
you might say that the non-Gamillans are like the Taiwanese, Koreans, or Okinawans, who are "Japanese" in name only and are perfect cannon fodder. In that case, would it have been better to be a colony or to occupied and wiped out? I'm not sure.
I wonder what it says that, having forgotten what the guy looks like, my mind immediately replaced him with that shouty sunken-eyed dipshit with the beard from Attack on Titan.
Yes, Hyouka might seem like a generic premise with really good production value at the start. What separates it from all the tripe is that the character writing is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyond the typical anime. It has crazy stuff like actual thematic depth, too.
It isn't slow, careful character development I'm commenting on. There's no way for me to judge something like that after a single episode. I'm talking more the scenario.
So it's High School kids solving mysteries? Do the mysteries get better?
Even if you can go really, really fast, where you actually are still matters. Warping into Earth orbit would obviously seem aggressive. Warping outside the solar system, not so much.
Better than the ones in the first episode? By far, yes. Don't expect any real murder mysteries or anything, but there are arc-long mysteries which have real thematic implications and trigger character development.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
They do, but at the same time the mysteries are more a vehicle for characterization than baffling whodunnits.
I was kind of ambivalent on the series until episode 3. I wouldn't say it fundamentally changes, but it's working on a lot more levels than it seems at first.
Don't worry, this is what a lot of people (even here if I remember correctly) thought of Hyouka at the start of its run.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Hyouka is a procedural. But instead of figuring out weird medical disorders or solving murders, it's mundane cases involve high school kids.
It was. I think Hyouka should be watched until at least episode 5 before someone gives up on it.
I don't think I'd call it a procedural. To me, procedurals are episodic, and have throwaway plots. Hyouka has episodes like that, but it also has long story-arcs. Also, procedural implies formula, but every mystery in Hyouka is unique in presentation.
Nagi no Asukara 9 - 10
So the show was always gonna head towards some sort of
but I didn't think they would go about it this way with
Also best girl just became more relevant now that the love polygon just got more messy.
Anyway what I find interesting about the whole relationship of fish people and human is that it appears to be a very local issue. I don't think there any fish people villages in other parts of the world? Considering that Uroko is the only one who can provide the fire it makes it unlikely that fish people formed cities elsewhere unless there are other gods beings like Uroko or maybe they just don't believe in any of the Sea God stories. Which then just makes the
Poor Hikari, his soul just got crushed.
So the show was always gonna head towards some sort of
the world is doomed scenario
sleep though the ice age. I thought at least it would be some crap about having to sacrifice an actual person and it would be Manaka or something like that.
Anyway what I find interesting about the whole relationship of fish people and human is that it appears to be a very local issue. I don't think there any fish people villages in other parts of the world? Considering that Uroko is the only one who can provide the fire it makes it unlikely that fish people formed cities elsewhere unless there are other gods beings like Uroko or maybe they just don't believe in any of the Sea God stories. Which then just makes the
"we are dooooomed" plotline more apocalyptic cause then there would be some tiny village alive after everyone else freezes to death
MotionBlue
Member
Now that I'm not pulling 50 hours a week I can actually catch up with shows from last season.
Coppelion
Was a surprise for me. Seems to hit a sober note often enough that I was hooked. The world was interesting, and the characters lovable. Given how short of a series it was, I was shocked to find myself caring about some of them.
Had a few slow points around mid season, but the ending was good and fulfilling. If anyone here has read the manga, could they comment on the quality? I'm strongly considering reading the manga, as I am intrigued by the world and the implications made in the last episode of the anime.
The "Hentai" Prince and the Stony Cat
This was my RomCom for the season, since I have a giant squishy heart and it filled me with feels. Series tried hard to mimic some of the schizophrenic appeal that shows like Haruhi did well. Tsukiko is kawaii as fuck. I've been reading the manga lately as well, since it scratches the Love Hina itch I've always had since I first became interested in manga.
Kyoukai No Kanata
Came for megane, stayed for the awesome fights. Ending came out of no where, I would watch more seasons of this(if it ever happened) with the same guilty pleasure Shakugan no Shana offered.
Kill la Kill
Anime at its best. Nothing I can say here will be something that hasn't been repeated already. Gurren Lagann meets FLCL.
Coppelion
Was a surprise for me. Seems to hit a sober note often enough that I was hooked. The world was interesting, and the characters lovable. Given how short of a series it was, I was shocked to find myself caring about some of them.
Had a few slow points around mid season, but the ending was good and fulfilling. If anyone here has read the manga, could they comment on the quality? I'm strongly considering reading the manga, as I am intrigued by the world and the implications made in the last episode of the anime.
The "Hentai" Prince and the Stony Cat
This was my RomCom for the season, since I have a giant squishy heart and it filled me with feels. Series tried hard to mimic some of the schizophrenic appeal that shows like Haruhi did well. Tsukiko is kawaii as fuck. I've been reading the manga lately as well, since it scratches the Love Hina itch I've always had since I first became interested in manga.
Kyoukai No Kanata
Came for megane, stayed for the awesome fights. Ending came out of no where, I would watch more seasons of this(if it ever happened) with the same guilty pleasure Shakugan no Shana offered.
Kill la Kill
Anime at its best. Nothing I can say here will be something that hasn't been repeated already. Gurren Lagann meets FLCL.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I can't remember if I talked about it in context of Hyouka, but that's not true. For example, ReGenesis was a procedural that always had three cases going simultaneously over the span of several episodes.
Of course, another way to think about it is that a normal procedural that is two parts is essentially four anime episodes, which is the length of the two big arcs in Hyouka.
Either way, the idea is that the cases don't matter whatsoever inasmuch as you are more interested in seeing how the characters react to the outcome of the cases and to each other. Again, much like how no one really remembers any case from House but remembers that House was a Vicodin addicted emotionally closed off asshole. Much like Oreki! lol
But the longer story-arcs do matter in Hyouka.
MotionBlue
Member
Shows watching this season:
Pupa
Assuming it ever actually airs. How many times has this show been delayed? Franken Fran needs an anime.
Oneechan ga Kita
Because I am a terrible person.
Chuu2koi
Same as above. UTAH.
Space Dandy
I believe in BONES. Nobody can stop the duckroll hype train(Except cold hard reality).
Seitokai Yakuindomo S2
I loved the first season. I want to learn more pervy Japan slang.
Pupa
Assuming it ever actually airs. How many times has this show been delayed? Franken Fran needs an anime.
Oneechan ga Kita
Because I am a terrible person.
Chuu2koi
Same as above. UTAH.
Space Dandy
I believe in BONES. Nobody can stop the duckroll hype train(Except cold hard reality).
Seitokai Yakuindomo S2
I loved the first season. I want to learn more pervy Japan slang.
I think it's important to move past reading into the events literally. The proposal of the idea of humankind firing first isn't to illustrate an alternate future, but to present the possibility that violence becomes a means of confronting adversity. The entire show is consistently drawing parallels between these separate species, and this is just another way of illustrating that.
I also find it difficult to be overly critical of the circumstances of the meeting. The intent was still for it to be conducted under peaceful terms, and the Garmillans are simply operating under a clear and admirable goal, even if their methods are somewhat ignoble. The twin planet hovering next to Garmillas is a wasteland in its own right, and while it may still remain beautiful on the surface nearly the entire population is buried beneath that. The intent of the Garmillans meeting these planets ahead of time is to gauge their potential for cooperation, but they do not have wiggle room to allow planets to remain uncontrolled when technological discovery holds the potential to destroy the universe. The show doesn't do a great job of selling these ideological aspects and the Garmillans are left somewhat underdeveloped, but they still clearly exist. Humans attacking first is a big part of substantiating the capacity for violence of still developing planets, and paints them as being unable to handle the responsibility of handling dangerous technology. The entire trek of the Yamato is about reestablishing trust and displaying the capacity to responsibly exist inside the universe.
I also find it difficult to be overly critical of the circumstances of the meeting. The intent was still for it to be conducted under peaceful terms, and the Garmillans are simply operating under a clear and admirable goal, even if their methods are somewhat ignoble. The twin planet hovering next to Garmillas is a wasteland in its own right, and while it may still remain beautiful on the surface nearly the entire population is buried beneath that. The intent of the Garmillans meeting these planets ahead of time is to gauge their potential for cooperation, but they do not have wiggle room to allow planets to remain uncontrolled when technological discovery holds the potential to destroy the universe. The show doesn't do a great job of selling these ideological aspects and the Garmillans are left somewhat underdeveloped, but they still clearly exist. Humans attacking first is a big part of substantiating the capacity for violence of still developing planets, and paints them as being unable to handle the responsibility of handling dangerous technology. The entire trek of the Yamato is about reestablishing trust and displaying the capacity to responsibly exist inside the universe.
Right, but they know the enemy has it. All I'm saying is that showing up at Pluto is the same as showing up at Earth's doorstep.FTL travel didn't exist for humanity at that point though.
What show are those girls from? Is it OniAi?
Yeah.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
They matter to the characters, but the actual cases -
who wrote the manga, who wrote Hyouka
UTAH UTAH UTAH
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I have long maintained that television is television is television. lol
(Writing > direction, substance > style, etc)
Paranoia Agent starts unbelievably strong. I wrote a lot about each episode when I was watching it with Ultimadrago during our Summer 2012 (has it really been that long?) backlog season. It has some of my favorite individual episodes of any show ever.
Speaking of which, this season seems really crappy, and I'd take up a 13-ish episode weekly backlog show if anyone else had something they wanted to watch.
curlyfriski
Banned
I really enjoyed Yamato, but have approximately zero interest in its deeper philosophical concerns. I blame Battlestar Galactic for putting me off Important Messages about The Nature of Humanity related via space opera.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
WHO ARE THE FINAL FIVE
I can understand wanting to just turn your brain off. It's how I watched this show when it came out in four episode chunks, because I just wanted something I could enjoy without being massively disappointed.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
It's winter. It's usually crap. Or at least that's what AnimeGAF has told me.
i know right? all the little sister shows are about step sisters. such a lame season.
I need to finish Crest of the Stars as soon as I finish my 2013 backlog.
Basileus777
Member
It's actually looking pretty decent for a Winter season, which is usually really bad. It's much better than last Winter anyway.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Well it's legal at least? *shrugs*
I really need to catch up with you guys and start watching more recent stuff. It's just been hard with this being my last semester of College (I graduated 3 weeks ago!). And I've only been getting into Anime Film this past yer, so there was sooo much stuff I hadn't even seen before.
I actually just ordered Porco Ross Blu Ray from Amazon.co.jp (I didn't even know I could order through them). So excited. It's my personal favorite Miyzaki film. Can't wait to show my mom this film in HD. I also got Akira on Blu Ray as well as Tekkon Kinkreet. Both those come in tomorrow, Porco will be here on Monday.
I've never seen Akira or Tekkon. I know they are dark stories. For Akira, is there a lot of sexual stuff in it? I wanted to show my mom the film. I guess I'll probably watch it myself first. I have a general idea of what kind of film it is, and know there is a lot of violence and sexuality. Was just wondering if it's really racy.
Anywho, I've pretty much seen every film that was recommended to me in this thread. I guess I should start trying to catch up on this seasonal stuff.
I actually just ordered Porco Ross Blu Ray from Amazon.co.jp (I didn't even know I could order through them). So excited. It's my personal favorite Miyzaki film. Can't wait to show my mom this film in HD. I also got Akira on Blu Ray as well as Tekkon Kinkreet. Both those come in tomorrow, Porco will be here on Monday.
I've never seen Akira or Tekkon. I know they are dark stories. For Akira, is there a lot of sexual stuff in it? I wanted to show my mom the film. I guess I'll probably watch it myself first. I have a general idea of what kind of film it is, and know there is a lot of violence and sexuality. Was just wondering if it's really racy.
Anywho, I've pretty much seen every film that was recommended to me in this thread. I guess I should start trying to catch up on this seasonal stuff.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I don't necessarily think that it's wrong to simultaneously interpret the event on a symbolic and a literal level, even if it means a positive and negative evaluation depending on the interpretation chosen. Basically everything in Yamato is a metaphor, but the narrative is strong enough that it's not simply a slave to its subtext. I actually have no problem with the first contact incident on a figurative level--Shima is horrified when he learns the truth because he can't believe that mankind was capable of the same predisposition toward violence as a first recourse as their Garmillan enemies. That entire two episode arc was basically there to reinforce the point that Garmillans and humans are not at all dissimilar biologically, emotionally, and ethically, and that neither is uniformly comprised of good or evil individuals
choice to attack
I probably should have disclosed that I'm only halfway through Yamato 2199 and as such still have an incomplete understanding of just how justified the element of Garmillan moral ambiguity introduced by that particular scenario is. Unfortunately I had to bail out on your post after the first paragraph :lol
For me the moral high ground comes from what is essentially human ignorance. They think they know best because they simply have not been exposed to a lot of the lessons that have been learned elsewhere in the universe. It's like a kid playing with a switchblade. They might think they're mature enough to handle it but their parent knows better and will take it away.
oh whoops.
Thanks! Honestly, I watched a lot of Anime film between classes. It really helped get me through the super tough times this semester.
Please, Hyouka is a character drama disguised as a procedural.
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