firehawk12
Subete no aware
Someone watching Yami feels like such a blast from the past. lol
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Winter Anime 2017 |OT| John Wick cleaning up KyoAni's mess
- Thread starter TUSR
- Start date
- Status
Jex
Member
[LWA TV] - 10
This might be one of the most boring 'forced love magic' episodes I've seen in any anime ever.
I think one of the big problems with using this tried and tested 'gimmick' is that it works best in a show with a large number of characters who are already in interesting relationships with each other. Then you add the 'accidental love magic' to that equation and you get more interesting results. In LWA, there's not really what I'd describe as an interesting web of relationships to subvert/explore. So the whole thing falls a little flat and ends up being rather route.
One thing I genuinely detest about this series is how sloppy the writing is with particular regards to character motivations. For example, consider the start of this very episode. Hannah and Barbara were just driving down the road, they happen to see Akko so they command their car to stop simply so that they can taunt Akko? They have literally no reason to be at the same geographic location in the world and certainly no reason to stop their car and waste their time on speaking with Akko. It's completely unmotivated action - the only motivating factor is that the screenwriter needed them to deliver information to Akko, but apparently couldn't come up with a logical way that would happen so they opted for an incredibly lazy solution instead. It's just very weak writing.
This might be one of the most boring 'forced love magic' episodes I've seen in any anime ever.
I think one of the big problems with using this tried and tested 'gimmick' is that it works best in a show with a large number of characters who are already in interesting relationships with each other. Then you add the 'accidental love magic' to that equation and you get more interesting results. In LWA, there's not really what I'd describe as an interesting web of relationships to subvert/explore. So the whole thing falls a little flat and ends up being rather route.
One thing I genuinely detest about this series is how sloppy the writing is with particular regards to character motivations. For example, consider the start of this very episode. Hannah and Barbara were just driving down the road, they happen to see Akko so they command their car to stop simply so that they can taunt Akko? They have literally no reason to be at the same geographic location in the world and certainly no reason to stop their car and waste their time on speaking with Akko. It's completely unmotivated action - the only motivating factor is that the screenwriter needed them to deliver information to Akko, but apparently couldn't come up with a logical way that would happen so they opted for an incredibly lazy solution instead. It's just very weak writing.
-Minsc-
Member
The whole point is to show there is a person within the evil villains. Granted, in Gintama there typically is very little time to give back story of a character as the arcs (at this point in the series) are over in four to six episodes. If a person doesn't like seeing redemption in their villains then I'll say Gintama is not the show for them.
As for upping the violence with no consequences, it's a show where people don't age so I don't expect there to be big consequences.
On Tsukuyo's being previously established. While I do not believe Sorachi had her character (and most others) planned out beforehand, I do think the story works. Perhaps it could have been written to better tie the two stories together. Or one could say Tsukuyo did not reveal her whole past to strangers she had only just met. Gintoki certainly did not reveal his past to her.
That is somewhat how I see things.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I mean it's been years, but I don't remember there being any real contradiction. One story explains why she is in her current position, while the other explains why she has all these skills in the first place.
I almost feel like this is a shounen trope. Of course, I'm not really an expert by any means, but I even remember stuff like this from the sportsball animes like KuroBasket and whatnot. I never really had a problem with it in Gintama, but admittedly I'm enamored with heroic bloodshed so I'm perfectly fine with them setting up motivations in this manner. Benizakura's climax is basically a flashback where the girl says she wants to make a sword that protects people, and that shit still gets me even though I've seen it dozens of times. lol
I feel like Gintama is decent/good when it comes to representations and discussions of gender, although I do agree in some small part that Tsukuyo is flanderized for the most part as the virginal girl who doesn't understand love until she meets the man who isn't there because he wants to use her. I guess it's Pretty Woman but with ninjas instead of Julia Roberts?
You'd probably hate the Love Potion arc if you don't like her characterization here. I'm generally fine with it because, in part, it doesn't really end up with a coupling (since the relationships are pretty much static) and because the comedic chemistry between Gintoki and a tsundere Tsukuyo is funny to me.
The flip side being that deaths are actually meaningful. The other thing is that it allows them to keep milking the heroic bloodshed well over and over again - Gintoki being on the verge of death is just one of those things "beats" that has to happen in one of these arcs, because he has to have his come back moment to save the day and show that good will always triumph.
Cornbread78
Member
Lol, nope. I have no idea, but I'm looking forward to reading all about it from PsychoNinja's perspective.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Gintama - 180
That episode sure was a visual treat.
I liked that Gin actually had a personal reason behind his strong motivation this time around. We get to learn more about the relationship to his former master and because he values it so highly he was extremely upset with what sort of person considers himself Tsukuyo's master.
Whereas the spider analogies remained fairly haphazard ("Jiraia, you'r the one who's been caught in a web." ... ok) the actual fight was a looker. Thankfully the spider was already defeated within these 3-4 episodes so the pacing felt much better compared to the King of the Night stuff.
But of course, precisely as predicted, we get the obligatory sob-backstory, kinda-redemption and Tsukuyo supporting Jiraia so he can gaze upon the moon one last time, clearly in parallel to Housen and the sun (which itself is nice admittedly). It's extremely formulaic by now and the only way I'll get to care for moments like these is if the writing is concise, on point and the villain already felt at least slightly relatable beforehand. I won't shed a tear for a maniac who, while grinning, proclaims his inane actions full of murderous intent, just because you then tack on a supremely tragic story at the very end. I mean, the guy's seriously lying there with a massive cut to his neck and both him and Shounen-Jump-Ninja narrate his backstory for minutes on end. Rather cliched. He just tried to destroy all of Yoshiwara and killing many of its citizens for fucks sake, and every one of those people has their own, perhaps tragic, backstory. I find it perverse how hard the show attempts to get us to empathize with the major scumbags but pays little attention to the small people in these circumstances. It was the worst for the Shinsengumi Crisis arc where literally dozens of loyal Shinsengumi grunts died fighting for Kondo but when Itou is about to die Gin, Kondo and Hijikata risk their lives in order to save his, with Gin (I think) even literally taking the bullet for him. All while grunts are still dying left, right and center.
Since Kagura's brother killed tens of the Hyakka grunts, pretty much for fun, I'd hope he won't get much screen time for his redemption but by now I'm certain it's going to happen.
I'll reply to the replies concerning my previous post in a bit.
That episode sure was a visual treat.
I liked that Gin actually had a personal reason behind his strong motivation this time around. We get to learn more about the relationship to his former master and because he values it so highly he was extremely upset with what sort of person considers himself Tsukuyo's master.
Whereas the spider analogies remained fairly haphazard ("Jiraia, you'r the one who's been caught in a web." ... ok) the actual fight was a looker. Thankfully the spider was already defeated within these 3-4 episodes so the pacing felt much better compared to the King of the Night stuff.
But of course, precisely as predicted, we get the obligatory sob-backstory, kinda-redemption and Tsukuyo supporting Jiraia so he can gaze upon the moon one last time, clearly in parallel to Housen and the sun (which itself is nice admittedly). It's extremely formulaic by now and the only way I'll get to care for moments like these is if the writing is concise, on point and the villain already felt at least slightly relatable beforehand. I won't shed a tear for a maniac who, while grinning, proclaims his inane actions full of murderous intent, just because you then tack on a supremely tragic story at the very end. I mean, the guy's seriously lying there with a massive cut to his neck and both him and Shounen-Jump-Ninja narrate his backstory for minutes on end. Rather cliched. He just tried to destroy all of Yoshiwara and killing many of its citizens for fucks sake, and every one of those people has their own, perhaps tragic, backstory. I find it perverse how hard the show attempts to get us to empathize with the major scumbags but pays little attention to the small people in these circumstances. It was the worst for the Shinsengumi Crisis arc where literally dozens of loyal Shinsengumi grunts died fighting for Kondo but when Itou is about to die Gin, Kondo and Hijikata risk their lives in order to save his, with Gin (I think) even literally taking the bullet for him. All while grunts are still dying left, right and center.
Since Kagura's brother killed tens of the Hyakka grunts, pretty much for fun, I'd hope he won't get much screen time for his redemption but by now I'm certain it's going to happen.
I'll reply to the replies concerning my previous post in a bit.
Cornbread78
Member
But, he is ethical and ethics are important.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
I think my comments on ep180 should already cover this point.
The increase in violence can be used to achieve a different tone and the thing is, it even worked at first in the previous Yoshiwara arc. The first encounter with the other Yato was tense and I could feel the danger coming from these people. However, the impact gets lost when several people take insanely powerful hits to their stomachs, splutter lots of blood from what one has to deduce as internal damage/bleeding and then...keep fighting anyways, even if it happens several times. Gin takes a vicious stomp to his head? Keeps fighting after a short timeout. 10 Kunais sliced you open? Meh, keep at it.
There's a stark contrast when portrayal of violence is increased by a lot but the seriousness of the fights remains low. There's no point to inflicting deadly wounds if they're treated as small annoyances. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, too.
There's no contradiction to the point where it wouldn't work, true, but as I said it still changes how I look at e.g. her agency and character as a whole. I never needed to know why she's as skilled anyways as she was clearly determined and motivated thanks to Hinowa. With how loose 'power levels' are in Gintama the exact 'how' never mattered.
Also if nothing else it just seems very unlikely that she'd never mention or at least think about Jiraia once just for him to then appear as a major person in her life. And we did dive into her own thoughts plenty, not just when she was talking to Gin.
It would frankly work well enough for me if the overall pacing of these arcs were much brisker. It's just that when I'm forced to ponder some of those kinda laughable premises because I'm downright bored with how long everything takes that I start to really get annoyed by it.
It's mostly a matter of consistency for me. I wouldn't have minded this romance angle at all as long if they segued into it properly. Maybe show us how thinking about the events some more after the fact she became kind of smitten with him? Maybe after Housen's death Yoshiwara and her life changed substantially so that she's now worrying about different matters, like her womanhood, at times? I just didn't like how it was suddenly "Yo, Tsukuyo wake up and make yourself pretty for Gin haha!" and it then just continued as if the topic were already established. The antics between her and Gin were fun, though, and a good love potion story in Gintama sounds like a good time.
amishpriest99
Member
I watched this based on a duckroll recommendation (if I recall correctly) awhile back, and I ended up loving it.
Dedication Through Light
Member
The Piano and Orchestra version of 1HOPE Sniper is so good. I love the Trickster OST.
I did this 10 minutes into the first show. It truly is a boring show with few redeeming qualities.
I often force myself to watch shows if they are part of the contemporary gestalt (see re:zero, an absolutely dreadful show) but this show was a non-starter from the beginning.
Cornbread78
Member
You and me are now fighting. Re;Zero had some flaws, but it was a really entertaining show from start to finish.
Also, fuck Subaru....
It's been on my PTW list forever now, so I thought it was about time...
PshycoNinja
Member
You wot? You threw this damn show my way without ever watching it yourself!?
I'll get you back one day for this.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Got a few questions concerning the Gintama anime and manga.
How closely is the anime adapted? Does the manga contain as much 4th wall breaking and most of it is simple altered to fit the anime medium? Are there entirely original anime episodes? Do the producers actually get as many complaints as is often talked about? Is some of that fan mail real?
How closely is the anime adapted? Does the manga contain as much 4th wall breaking and most of it is simple altered to fit the anime medium? Are there entirely original anime episodes? Do the producers actually get as many complaints as is often talked about? Is some of that fan mail real?
GoldCrusader
Member
A new PV for Tsuki ga Kirei (The Moon is Beautiful) has been posted and boy, this original anime looks good! IT will give me my SoL among all the great batlle shonen from the spring seasons.
Here is a new and old visual.
Here is a new and old visual.
Cornbread78
Member
I never said I knew anything about it past the synopsis explaining that it's a yuri siscon show, lol.
Fantastic Children ep.2
Looks like they are assembling the characters and the plot moving forward. Everything is still a big mystery, but interesting at the same time. The show has a weird, almost eerie tone to it at this point, supported by the melochaly OST.
The only thing I saw that WBC will affect was Gabriel Dropout but that's on Shizuoka Broadcast System aired on a different day since the new episode already aired an hour ago on Tokyo MX. They simply said it'll be pushed back 30 minutes so no significant effects from Round 2.
Cornbread78
Member
Yeah, this one looks like it could be good, but I would expect more drama than anything else. Looks and feels like it takes a more serious tone than a standard H.S. SoL show.
godisntheradio
Neo Member
it looks cool and sounds like something i would like
Dedication Through Light
Member
Could have high potential to be boring.
I dont know most of the voice cast beyond who I assume is the lead make. Some of the cast has been in like only five animes. I guess its giving new folks a chance.
Hai to Gensou no Grimgar 07
Wow, this episode addressed the very thing I wrote about the previous episode. Mary's attitude doesn't make up for her trauma and everyone seem to acknowledge it but realize that it goes both ways. They have been rather disrepectful to each other in some way or the other so they learn to get over that and learn to talk repectfully to whatever extent.
It handles itself really well when it comes to characters but individually they are yet to make a lasting impression but there's definitely potential for that.
Visually the show has a cool water color based art style for backgrounds but very few actually stood out for me so far although they mesh well with the more somber and contemplative tone of the show.
Wow, this episode addressed the very thing I wrote about the previous episode. Mary's attitude doesn't make up for her trauma and everyone seem to acknowledge it but realize that it goes both ways. They have been rather disrepectful to each other in some way or the other so they learn to get over that and learn to talk repectfully to whatever extent.
It handles itself really well when it comes to characters but individually they are yet to make a lasting impression but there's definitely potential for that.
Visually the show has a cool water color based art style for backgrounds but very few actually stood out for me so far although they mesh well with the more somber and contemplative tone of the show.
A new PV for Tsuki ga Kirei (The Moon is Beautiful) has been posted and boy, this original anime looks good! IT will give me my SoL among all the great batlle shonen from the spring seasons.
Here is a new and old visual.
I don't know about this one. I think I've only enjoyed one Seiji Kishi work, which was Humanity Has Declined. He doesn't have a very good track record.
Dedication Through Light
Member
best characters together
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu S2 10
It would not even be that bad if Akko wasn't the just absolute drizzling shits as a character.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Well,
we don't know for sure that he's dead yet. Could be another struggle with his inner demons from which he manages to come back alive.
MikeHattsu
Member
Isn't it better to look at the Series Composition/Screenplay person since it's an original work?
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Not necessarily, since an anime's director can be a strong guiding force on the writing approach it takes (see Shirobako for a portrayal of this). At any rate, having the author of Digimon Adventure Tri on writing duties for this isn't a strong look on that front either.
We don't know for sure but there were lot of signs and implications. If it is,
this was a beautiful end.
MikeHattsu
Member
firehawk12
Subete no aware
This is only going to get "worse" as the show continues. lol
For me, maybe it's just a matter of watching enough HK and Japanese films to just be immune to the ridiculous nature of being shot/stabbed a dozen times and having the character still do some heroic thing inspite of their injuries.
Heck, it even happens in John Wick 2.
I think these are basically the same point, because her backstory is in some ways meant to parallel Gintoki's story - complicated relationships with older male figures who taught them everything they know. It's not necessarily how she learned her skills, but from who and what that means to her life. I don't want to say more because of spoilers, but actually thinking about this arc in light of the current Gintama story actually makes me appreciate it even more. I'm not sure if you plan on catching up, but it'd be interesting to see how you react to the currently airing end game arc based on this story.
I do think her feelings, as they are, for Gintoki really just do stem from the fact that he's basically the first guy she doesn't see with complete contempt. For better or for worse, it's the "nice guy white knight" trope played out in standard form. The fact that their backstories line up so well is what makes this pairing the "best" of the ones that Srorachi has introduced throughout the years though. Like Otae is basically a throwaway character by the point you're at, and Sa-chan is just a joke character who exists for Yuu Kobayashi to do her freakouts.
(I also have a pet theory that fujyoshi HATE Tsukuyo, as evidenced by a few polls, because she represents a real threat to the Gintoki x Hajikata relationship lol)
Turin Turambar
Member
Given this time it happened after making peace with her, I think this time is for real.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Yeh, shrugging of incapacitating wounds like nothing is certainly nothing restricted to animation. As I said, it's a pet peeve of mine.
Coincidentally I'm just watching the episodes about the character rating, which are hilarious, and I certainly can believe that theory.
I hope you watch the openings!Coincidentally I'm just watching the episodes about the character rating, which are hilarious, and I certainly can believe that theory.
Not just that:
Yotaro's interest towards trying new Rakugo under the explicit condition that he won't do it while his master's alive, brief glimpses of upcoming Rakugo performers towards the end and to some extent Konatsu bearing a child marking a new beginning.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Many scribbles were seen!
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Yeah,
it would be appropriate for Yakumo to pass on at this point given that the extended scene with him let him reconcile with both Konatsu and Yotaro, while giving an optimistic tone towards the future. Still, he has unfinished business as seen by Sukeroku's reappearance at the end, so he's at least going to have to tackle that before he passes on.
I am not really reading the manga, but it's more or less a full adaption. The later seasons skip several of the comedy episodes and also the anime has less anime original material now. Just for comparison, in one of the early episodes, the same one that was animated for the Jump Festa 2005 (the very first Gintama animation) has a second anime only half, where Katsura appears with a mecha. I don't know how much anime only material there is, but at least until way into the 200-300 range of episodes, I don't think anything the manga has is actually missing from the anime.
As for 4th wall breaking, the manga definitly does that, but as said I am not completely sure how often. I am not reading the current manga and only read some of the earlier chapters after I started collecting the manga in german.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I was reading the manga on and off, and the manga definitely becomes metatextual at times.Sölf;231980065 said:
There are anime original jokes by virtue of anime being different from manga, of course. Like any reference to Sunrise or their time slot for example.
Dedication Through Light
Member
I didnt know Nazotokine 2 is a happening??? I wonder where mal got s2 from.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
might be the single best episode of Gintama, certainly is visual wise
Little Witch Academia TV10
In a vacuum, I think this episode is mostly fine. The issue is that in the context of everything else, its another in a long line of ehhhhhhhhhhhh.
Again the same shit happens - magic is useless but nobody tells you why and Sucy and Akko do a massive fuckup but somehow aren't kicked out.
Jex
Member
There's no hiding from this kind of analysis. Owch.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It looks pretty bad, yeah. That said, I'll encourage people to note that the writer says that the PR/support people are not to blame for this. As someone who used to work in customer service, I am well aware of being in a position where you have no decision making power and no ability to go against the company line but still being blamed and yelled at for everything people are unhappy about. So if you want Crunchyroll to change their video encoding, don't yell at PR people on Twitter or Reddit, but instead do what this writer suggests and cancel your subscription with video quality given as the reason.
- Status