I'm so happy right nwo!! They say alchol is a depressant, but every time I drink, I just get increidbly happy!! The world is an awesome place! Why?? Because there is anime and hentai! And who can be sad about that?!
I loved Moon phase
I loved Bakemonagatari
I loved Soredemo
I love everything Hidamari
I loved Denpa Onna
I loved Madoka Magica
I liked Arakawa
I like Sasami san
That's not the only evidence I have of it. Episode 10 is the most critical turning point here. Oreki goes to meet Irisu on his own, and she convinces him to find a solution himself. She has a very profound effect on Oreki. She urges him to believe in his own abilities and help, and he accepts, because he wants to believe in her expectations. I can support this with direction, something you say the show is bad at for reasons I can't fathom.
They're having their conversation in a normally lit room. Irisu builds to her main point; she needs Oreki to solve this mystery. Nobody else can do it.
Why? Oreki considers himself thoroughly average to the point the film arc begins.
No, Irisu says. "You are extraordinary." The 'camera' zooms in on her mouth saying those words. They carry enormous weight for Oreki.
With a flourish of rose petals, the room is bathed in a pink glow. This echoes Oreki's monologues from the beginning of the series about a 'rose-colored high school life', and shows how enthralled he is. Irisu's words literally brighten up the gray, mundane life he normally leads, and they (not Chitanda) motivate him to come up with an ending for the movie.
Even if a viewer doesn't consciously weigh all this stuff as they're watching, they can intuitively grasp the meaning of shots chosen in this way. Hyouka's character development is plastered all over the screen with shots like this. It's actually rather blunt.
He wanted to do it on his own because it would have caused him more trouble if more people knew about it. He said that to Chitanda at the end.
Who knows what Satoshi would have done with the information and make Oreki into some newspaper headline. It was Satoshi who challenged his "teacher likes helicopter" idea anyway.
That's not at all what he says, and I have literally no clue where you drew that from. It's like you're talking about an entirely different show. Let's direct-quote his monologue, which I'll put in quoted spoilers.
OREKI: When I heard the lightning story from Satoshi, I had a bad feeling.
CHITANDA: Yes, you said that.
OREKI: So I wanted to check if my intuition was correct. That's why I went to the library to investigate. It would have been different if it'd needed a week-long investigation or something, but looking through old newspapers is no big deal. I even had help. If my hunch was right, we'd need to be careful.
CHITANDA: Careful?
OREKI: If something like that had happened, Ogi couldn't just say he loved helicopters that easily. Unless he was really that insensitive. It's best to be careful with people like that.
OREKI: Insensitive, as in, he has no idea how other people are feeling. Though I'd probably never meet him again, so it's not much of a concern.
Oreki's stated reason boils down to, essentially, that he wanted to understand why his teacher felt the way he did. It didn't matter that the information would probably be pointless. You could say... he was curious. Without Chitanda's urging, he did something very Chitanda-like. He's changed pretty deeply.
I'm not going to throw the evidence in your face for every single little point of character development. I've already spent enough of my time on this stuff as it is. I just hope I've proven to you that the stuff is there, and it's not bullshit.
Rikka couldn't be true to herself
at the funeral
. That's why she needed the chuunibyou to put her memories to closure. That's why she admired Yuuta's courage to be true to himself despite what society thinks of him.
A person who doesn't cry when someone close to them pass on is not accepting one self.
That didn't escape my attention. What confuses me (and this is entirely unrelated to the character development discussion) is how the act of pretending is fundamental to either of these characters.
Rikka adopted her chuuni personality as a way of dealing with her grief. It let her hold onto her father's memory and gave her hope of reconciliation. So when she is finally able to say goodbye, what is she still being true to in her games of pretend? Was the Rikka before her father's death lying to herself by not acting like she had the Tyrant's Eye?
I think that's an absurd contention. And perhaps Yuuta doesn't have to be as ashamed of his Dark Flame Master past as he is, but leaving it behind isn't a betrayal of anything.
The show takes a complex and legitimately interesting theme and oversimplifies it. For me, that kind of hurt how I saw both Rikka and Yuuta. There's a lot of nice stuff to chew on if you take the scene
with Rikka and her mother washing her father's grave
, it's parallels with chuuni, and run with the implications. They only went halfway.
If you'd like to point out the times when Oreki developed his character over the course of the 22 episodes, be my guest. I can name a few points, but a lot of it are completely minor that leading up to the end of the show, it amounted to nothing between the relationship of Chitanda and Oreki.
You can say I'm forcing my thoughts into the facts, but the same can be said for people doing the opposite. The real fact is that Chuunibyou makes its character development very obvious leading to it to be more popular where Hyouka is an over-melodramatic and hard to understand that it'll take several university lectures to figure out what's it all about.
You're exaggerating how hard Hyouka is to understand, but I agree with you there. Chuunibyou is a more approachable show, and its sudden, dramatic character movements are a good fit to the market. Hyouka's subtlety and pace aren't as easy for everyone to digest.
I'm willing to concede that I was overly critical of the character development arcs of Yuuta and Rikka. It's dumb of me to focus on finding plot-based consequences of their changes in one show and not the other. A character's development is an internal journey.
But I think I've laid out as clear a case as I can that the characters in Hyouka (my examples show Oreki in particular) clearly and demonstrably develop over the course of the show. All of them end in very different places than where they started. The series may not end with Chitanda and Oreki embracing each other as the music swells and the background fades to blissful white, but it's absurd to say that their relationship is in the same place as it was during the first arc.
I'm so happy right nwo!! They say alchol is a depressant, but every time I drink, I just get increidbly happy!! The world is an awesome place! Why?? Because there is anime and hentai! And who can be sad about that?!
Be my Dokidoki nakama from the beginning and see how far you can make it. As someone who made it through Suite weekly without ever feeling particularly violated, it's going to be fun to see the other watchers start dropping like flies come February.
Basically. The show's strength was in its "hey, wouldn't it be cool if...?" throw-shit-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks method to writing episodes and that totally falls apart at the slightest bit of actual drama. The best stuff was completely one-off.
I didn't really enjoy the series overall, but I thought the first half of the anime was at least worthwhile in the end because the payoff in episode 24 was so damn good. Apparently it went into filler mode at some point, so maybe that's why it fizzled out so bad.
It's on my "top ten", well, the bottom of the three animes that I watched.
Hyouka has cute girls, nice drawing, well animated too. But anyone who says it has character development is quite wrong. Poorly edited series as well that reminded me of the Haruhi fiasco.
I'm so happy right nwo!! They say alchol is a depressant, but every time I drink, I just get increidbly happy!! The world is an awesome place! Why?? Because there is anime and hentai! And who can be sad about that?!
When it comes to character development and dialogue, a lot of that is lost on me.
I dont find such things to be very remarkable or interesting.
Part of it is because I cannot identify with normal characters.
I dont have a normal social life and the friendships I have are relatively shallow.
I dont form strong bonds with people or find deeper meanings in things.
Therefore when such ideas are presented, my autistic ass self glosses over them as irrelevant and boring because I am not familiar with these concepts.
They literally mean nothing to me unless a haracter is extraordinary and unusual (like the eccentric Misaki for example).
I identify more with the chuunibyo characters for this reason.
It's on my "top ten", well, the bottom of the three animes that I watched.
Hyouka has cute girls, nice drawing, well animated too. But anyone who says it has character development is quite wrong. Poorly edited series as well that reminded me of the Haruhi fiasco.
That's not the only evidence I have of it. Episode 10 is the most critical turning point here. Oreki goes to meet Irisu on his own, and she convinces him to find a solution himself. She has a very profound effect on Oreki. She urges him to believe in his own abilities and help, and he accepts, because he wants to believe in her expectations. I can support this with direction, something you say the show is bad at for reasons I can't fathom.
Even if a viewer doesn't consciously weigh all this stuff as they're watching, they can intuitively grasp the meaning of shots chosen in this way. Hyouka's character development is plastered all over the screen with shots like this. It's actually rather blunt.
That's not at all what he says, and I have literally no clue where you drew that from. It's like you're talking about an entirely different show. Let's direct-quote his monologue, which I'll put in quoted spoilers.
Oreki's stated reason boils down to, essentially, that he wanted to understand why his teacher felt the way he did. It didn't matter that the information would probably be pointless. You could say... he was curious. Without Chitanda's urging, he did something very Chitanda-like. He's changed pretty deeply.
I'm not going to throw the evidence in your face for every single little point of character development. I've already spent enough of my time on this stuff as it is. I just hope I've proven to you that the stuff is there, and it's not bullshit.
Dialogue is not the only thing to rely on. If you're taking in story one ep at a time, it'll end up with hasty conclusions.
Oreki doesn't like to be wrong. That's been established since forever. There was a moment in that ep when his intuition hit him about what might have happened. Even without all the facts, he had an idea of what was wrong at that point. Whatever he did with his friends is damage control for his low energy life style.
That didn't escape my attention. What confuses me (and this is entirely unrelated to the character development discussion) is how the act of pretending is fundamental to either of these characters.
Rikka adopted her chuuni personality as a way of dealing with her grief. It let her hold onto her father's memory and gave her hope of reconciliation. So when she is finally able to say goodbye, what is she still being true to in her games of pretend? Was the Rikka before her father's death lying to herself by not acting like she had the Tyrant's Eye?
I think that's an absurd contention. And perhaps Yuuta doesn't have to be as ashamed of his Dark Flame Master past as he is, but leaving it behind isn't a betrayal of anything.
The show takes a complex and legitimately interesting theme and oversimplifies it. For me, that kind of hurt how I saw both Rikka and Yuuta. There's a lot of nice stuff to chew on if you take the scene
with Rikka and her mother washing her father's grave
, it's parallels with chuuni, and run with the implications. They only went halfway.
It's simplified because they were limited to 12 eps and it's more comedy than romantic. Different than a mystery genre anime. Chuunibyou is okay, but has more going on with it than Hyouka.
You're exaggerating how hard Hyouka is to understand, but I agree with you there. Chuunibyou is a more approachable show, and its sudden, dramatic character movements are a good fit to the market. Hyouka's subtlety and pace aren't as easy for everyone to digest.
I'm willing to concede that I was overly critical of the character development arcs of Yuuta and Rikka. It's dumb of me to focus on finding plot-based consequences of their changes in one show and not the other. A character's development is an internal journey.
But I think I've laid out as clear a case as I can that the characters in Hyouka (my examples show Oreki in particular) clearly and demonstrably develop over the course of the show. All of them end in very different places than where they started. The series may not end with Chitanda and Oreki embracing each other as the music swells and the background fades to blissful white, but it's absurd to say that their relationship is in the same place as it was during the first arc.
Their relationship is that Chitanda relies on Oreki to help her. That's all I'm saying. Whether they feel closer to each other is not a real change in their relationship. It may be just my opinion, but I don't feel like Oreki and Chitanda's relationship matured from the first case to the final ep. It was extremely long drawn with no real advances.
Editing is Hyouka's downfall. The amount of boring, long-winded, pointless scenes felt like the Endless Eight in Haruhi. If it was paced better, the character development might actually fall in place and feel like it has progression.
Hyouka has cute girls, nice drawing, well animated too. But anyone who says it has character development is quite wrong. Poorly edited series as well that reminded me of the Haruhi fiasco.
I only watched six episodes and even I can tell that's bs. Oreki's character arc and movement is very apparent from episode one onwards. WHY AM I CONTRIBUTING TO THIS ENDLESS HYOUKA APOCALYPSE
You can say I'm forcing my thoughts into the facts, but the same can be said for people doing the opposite. The real fact is that Chuunibyou makes its character development very obvious leading to it to be more popular where Hyouka is an over-melodramatic and hard to understand that it'll take several university lectures to figure out what's it all about.
I only watched six episodes and even I can tell that's bs. Oreki's character arc and movement is very apparent from episode one onwards. WHY AM I CONTRIBUTING TO THIS ENDLESS HYOUKA APOCALYPSE
Nope, just putting out a conjecture about why people are praising Hyouka's character development. Complexity doesn't help that argument. Chuunibyou's character development is very easy to pick out moments, but Hyouka's poor editing and long drawn story doesn't help its own argument.
I cansee your points, but DFC girl is closer to the heart, etc... !
Also, randoml but I forgot:
Birdy Thr MIGHTY Deconde 8
So the kids all too a resort in the middle of the woods to go camping and look for ghots. :/ Then got lots and star gazed while MC hit up his sleepy g/f, they had dinner and took naps.
WTF IS THIS! I thought I was supposed to be super sexy Birdy sakuga fighting mother fuckers, instead I get this!?
I cansee your points, but DFC girl is closer to the heart, etc... !
Also, randoml but I forgot:
Birdy Thr MIGHTY Deconde 8
So the kids all too a resort in the middle of the woods to go camping and look for ghots. :/ Then got lots and star gazed while MC hit up his sleepy g/f, they had dinner and took naps.
WTF IS THIS! I thought I was supposed to be super sexy Birdy sakuga fighting mother fuckers, instead I get this!?
More booby fun. Well booby budget was pretty low this week. And it seems like some plot is happening. But w/e, at least next week has tons of 'plot' I think.
These stock footage finisher things are better animated then they probably should be though.
What's this? An actual decent episode of Shana. Not average but actually decent? And, with no action whatsoever too.
Of course, it is as far removed from the actual show with just Shana and her thing being there and probably doesn't spell good for literally every other character in the show expect the maid when they are taken out, the show becomes actually good, but I'm sure that was already known.
So the kids all too a resort in the middle of the woods to go camping and look for ghots. :/ Then got lots and star gazed while MC hit up his sleepy g/f, they had dinner and took naps.
WTF IS THIS! I thought I was supposed to be super sexy Birdy sakuga fighting mother fuckers, instead I get this!?
Yeah wtf it's gonna continue like this until the end?! I get I muscle through this, but still.. :/ It started off so good with the first few episodes!! might check out S2, might not. Birdy is so nice, why cant we just see her butt more in sakuga when she kicks! that's not a bad way to enjoy this show! ffs
