I wish I had the balls you had.
Winter of Anime 2013 |OT -4| It's not my fault!
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I wish I had the balls you had.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Ginga e Kickoff! 30
Best part of the episode was Manager-san going all hincha and tearing at the thought of his club becoming champions. I haven't felt that feeling since August of 2010.
P.S. This one's for cajun. So :cajun.
True love.
Best part of the episode was Manager-san going all hincha and tearing at the thought of his club becoming champions. I haven't felt that feeling since August of 2010.
;_; Fuck YOU Internacional de Porto Alegre (in b4 Zeroth).
P.S. This one's for cajun. So :cajun.
Stop caring so much. Apply your posting strategy to real life!
What genre the novel is in doesn't mean much, because it doesn't cover any possible changes made in the transition to the anime, nor does it consider the possibility that the author may have deliberately stretched the meaning of the "mystery" genre.
Hyouka could be classified as a mystery, but not "murder mystery", moreso... the mysteries of human interaction and relationships, I suppose.
See now you're just trying too hard.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I'm starting to think we should rename the K-ON thread the Kyoto Animation thread and confine all of that shit over there.
Hahaha. Tomat online and Tomat offline are two fairly different people.
Well I wouldn't label them as just a red herring, they are too well constructed for that despite their often silly nature. They just actively work as a launching point for the important aspects of the show.
As you said though the characters are the real focus of the show.
Citing an English Wikipedia entry for a novel only available in Japanese is usually a mistake if you're going to argue about details. Just saying. I'm not sure if anyone is actually interested in continuing the discussion on the genre origins of Hyouka, but if anyone is, I'm here all day!
Freezasaurus
Member
I don't really watch too much anime anymore considering most of it is terrible. But I discovered Steins;Gate which is OMGamazing, so I'm currently plowing through that.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
Dat Ikki Tousen mouse pad.
Why? Did you actually pay attention to the show, or were you too busy thinking about how "boring" it was in your mind to pay attention? There's a deliberate focus on human themes, even in the mysteries.
Oh I definitely agree that at the show's core, it's a character study. Now as to whether the mystery is a red herring or not, that's a bit more complicated. By all accounts, it's a red herring however it seems to be unintentional. I state this because of the inordinate amount of time used in detailing and solving the mystery. Now normally, that wouldn't be a bad thing however due to how boring and mundane the core of some of these mysteries are, it creates a sort of imbalance where the character studies are much more entertaining. In a perfect world, you would have some sort of equality where the mysteries are interesting and there is also analysis and development of the characters. Much easier said than done. The closest I've personally seen is Sherlock, amusingly enough right after I finished Hyouka.
I'm the IT Head I can do what I want!
This is what living the dream looks like.
I try not to agree with pizzaroll wherever I can but he has a point here.
Hyouka is a character interaction show first and foremost. It's no more a mystery story than Haruhi is a story about time travelers, espers and aliens.
Hyouka is a character interaction show first and foremost. It's no more a mystery story than Haruhi is a story about time travelers, espers and aliens.
Chet Rippo
Member
No. Make your own thread.
It is pretty boss. Props man.
I'm not well versed in moonrune language but would it help any to cite the japanese wikipedia entry, then?
Here is what it says:
japanese wikipedia said:
It may be an improper usage because I'm using it in terms of a red herring in how the show is made, not how it's written.
Also death of the author etc
Oh I agree, the problem is that the mystery aspect is nowhere near as interesting as time travelers or the like. It may not be the main focus, but it's certainly a key part of the show.
It's not dismissing it, it's calling making sure you know what it is. You can't ignore it because for all intents and purposes the mysteries do drive the character development, however the character interactions and quirks that the mystery solvings reveal are so much more valuable than the plot points of the mysteries themselves.
Why does there need to be equality?
HxH 2011 62
I'm definitely enjoying this adaptation of the Greed Island arc. It's just so incredibly charming not only thanks to just how much better it looks than the OVA but also the overall great direction, especially the nice little quirky style shifts.
I'm definitely enjoying this adaptation of the Greed Island arc. It's just so incredibly charming not only thanks to just how much better it looks than the OVA but also the overall great direction, especially the nice little quirky style shifts.
I might be wrong but "red herring" kind of implies some sort of deception, misdirection or bait-and-switch anyway, which I'm not sure is the point that pizzaroll is trying to make. The mysteries are vehicles for interaction and development, but I don't think they're solely means to an end either. There's too much effort in their writing for that to be entirely true.
Yes, it changes the context a lot because those are mystery sub-genres which spell out exactly what to expect from the Koutenbu series. They are also sub-genres which are far more popular in Japanese works, so it might be harder to relate to for people familiar with the context of "mystery" in English works.
"Everyday Mysteries" tend to be stories which revolve around logic mysteries which occur in everyday life, as opposed to criminal cases or mysteries with tension or danger involved. "Youth Mysteries" are those where the main character and/or supporting cast are experiencing the Spring of their Youth, and developing as people. These stories tend to use mystery as a base hook or setting, while focusing on the development of characters and their experiences in that part of their lives.
Either of the sub-genres are intended to compete or be compared with detective fiction or more compelling mystery literature where the case is the focal aim of the narrative.
Equality might not have been the right word but instead something proportional to the screen time used.
I would take up the mantle for Clannad but I figured I'd be facing an uphill battle and I don't have the energy for it.
I was absolutely, completely, unequivocally, categorically, indisputably thinking about how boring it was to pay attention. Because it was.
It makes no difference to me how much effort you put into shoving whatever important human themes you think there are in there if the whole experience that surrounds them is enveloped in an aura of utter apathy towards the characters and their unengaging interactions with one another.
Well in that case I do believe that what we have here is an example of misguided expectations leading to a certain degree of disappointment.
It still doesn't change my opinion regarding the characterization and development.
"Why does there need to be equality?"
I think Jarmal meant that the mystery half of the show deserved as much care and attention as the characters.
Hyouka would've been a better show if the mysteries were more compelling. Since they're necessary components to the show, they should at least be somewhat engaging, and many of them weren't.
I think Jarmal meant that the mystery half of the show deserved as much care and attention as the characters.
Hyouka would've been a better show if the mysteries were more compelling. Since they're necessary components to the show, they should at least be somewhat engaging, and many of them weren't.
Except the 'character development' happens outside of the mysteries, usually. The entire narrative is structured around the solving of mysteries, yet the interactions and the conversations that comprise the majority of the study happen outside it or are incidental to the investigation and the solving of the puzzle. So then, is it flawed for being structured around a thing that it is most mediocre at, and is the reason for driving the most people away?
It's like when you used the term 'red herring' to characterize the mystery portions of the show. A ruse by nature is incidental to the principal driving force of a story, yet the mysteries are what the story is in Hyouka. The story's greatest triumph is in the construction and conclusion of the humanistic elements, yet these elements--the 'character study'--happen in the wake of the cases being solved. You can't excuse away the weaker aspects of the show by saying they're unimportant.
Well, going off duckroll's genre revelations it seems like I was wrong regardless of the context of my usage. Interesting.
I would have been happy if they completely dropped the mystery component after the film arc and focused more on the characters.
Hmmm. This does make things a bit more interesting. I would love to see other works in the field to see how Hyouka compares to them. I can't think of any English counterexamples.
I absolutely agree that Hyouka would be a better show if the mysteries were more interesting. But that's also something we can say for pretty much anything where if one component is better, it would certainly make the overall work better, even if it is already pretty good.
But that aside, I think there is an element of expectation here with regards to Hyouka, and how people approached it, and what the show ended up being based on those expectations. Some people can get over it and enjoy it for what it was. Others couldn't. I do feel that those expectations are also somewhat cultural, because I too expected something different from the show, and it was frustrating at first for it not to be what I expected.
But that aside, I think there is an element of expectation here with regards to Hyouka, and how people approached it, and what the show ended up being based on those expectations. Some people can get over it and enjoy it for what it was. Others couldn't. I do feel that those expectations are also somewhat cultural, because I too expected something different from the show, and it was frustrating at first for it not to be what I expected.
Who is that? Thats pretty adorable.
Yes it is.
Im rewatching it.
So incredibly good.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I remember maybe two names in that entire show. I watch it for the footie.
I didn't say they were unimportant, I said they weren't the main focus of the show. They are important.
I'm the IT Head I can do what I want!
If I had that in my consultation room, my patients would do this:
Indubitably.
The problem with Hyouka as a character show is that the main characters arent even compelling or interesting.
Oreki is just a smart but boring guy who likes Chitanda and puts up with her shit.
Chitanda is overly curious moeblob who gets drunk on chocolate which is admittedly kind of cute.
Mayaka is the grounded normal one and she is pretty dull.
The other guy is practically invisible.
Misaki is by far the most interesting character and has the most personality but it is hardly explored because she is a side character. she would have made the show a ton more interesting with her eccentric nature.
Oreki is just a smart but boring guy who likes Chitanda and puts up with her shit.
Chitanda is overly curious moeblob who gets drunk on chocolate which is admittedly kind of cute.
Mayaka is the grounded normal one and she is pretty dull.
The other guy is practically invisible.
Misaki is by far the most interesting character and has the most personality but it is hardly explored because she is a side character. she would have made the show a ton more interesting with her eccentric nature.
"It never sells itself as a mystery show and if you feel that way, you're reading the show wrong. The mystery aspect is purely a red herring in the show's construction."
That's dismissal. You can't characterize the principal bulk of the show as a fallacious mislead, a trap, and say that it's still important, too, when the very term intimates a lack of importance.
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