Support NeoGAF

[Cvie]

Riduclous expecations are the root cause and I think many were honestly expecting 900-1 billion. The fact it's more likely to be in WW ball park range (which many expected to bomb), was far too unexpected.

noone with a brain expected WW to bomb, very few expected the breakout the way it did but lets not try and go too far on it being some kind of super underdog

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Begins wasn't marketed nearly as much as Homecoming. I wonder if the audience for any given movie isn't that elastic and marketing mostly just gets people to the theater earlier in the run.

 

[Principate]

Wouldn't that be most people? I don't know if a lot of people really know about movies that are coming before there are teasers of it.

THe MCU more than most series seems to require a bit more involvement than that. We're at like the 4 major cross over film with many other films in the universe. Chances of someone making it all the way to this point while having having a completely casual engagement seems like it'd be all that common. Especially when those with even a passing interest will be told by the media that will have this information. You have to just watch some trailers have your more engage friends not tell you, not read any articles but still decide to show up to be surprised by this twist.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

noone with a brain expected WW to bomb, very few expected the breakout the way it did but lets not try and go too far on it being some kind of super underdog

There were plenty of people who expected the prior movies to drag it down and also underestimated Wonder Woman's preexisting appeal.

 

[BumRush]

Another page, another chance for folks to say that Spiderman's gross is a disaster? Lol sigh.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Riduclous expecations are the root cause and I think many were honestly expecting 900-1 billion. The fact it's more likely to be in WW ball park range (which many expected to bomb), was far too unexpected.

I think it also because it part of MCU that some people expected that .
It's like people forget everything else like it being a reboot in short time etc etc .

Now talking about Avengers i wonder if they going market that this might be the last film for certain people .
At least for IW part 2 \what ever they going to call it .

 

[Principate]

noone with a brain expected WW to bomb, very few expected the breakout the way it did but lets not try and go too far on it being some kind of super underdog

Clearly that describes a number on gaf. Keep in mind many expected Suicide Squad to bomb and expected WW for review poorly, Or did you forget the numerous Gal Gadot cannot act insuations and the rumours that the film was a trainwreck

We even had a thread on here about WB's lack of marketing and number stating WB was sending it out to die between transformers and pirates of the carribean. It was hardly a niche view point.

 

[Loudninja]

I think people are more concerned about the crazy executives running Sony having unrealistic expectations.

“Homecoming” banked on the idea that the summer box office was craving a family-friendly superhero movie — Tom Holland plays a high school version of Peter Parker who, at 15 years old, has to prove that he is worthy of being called an Avenger. And it seems that bet is paying off. The $117 million figure is the second largest in Sony Pictures history, behind “Spider-Man 3.”

?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

There were multiple threads with the subtext of "Wobder Woman is dooooomed!"

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Batman Begins had over a 4x multiplier against its opening. Homecoming opened huge and looks to have a larger, but not massive drop. They really aren't similar at all from a box office standpoint.

I know it's not a perfect comparison but my point was that both franchises couldn't be expected to perform at their peak with Begins and Homecoming. It's about rebuilding trust.

 

[Chamber]

Sony hasn't had a movie above $250m domestic since Skyfall and ASM1 in 2012. There's no way they're upset about Homecoming's numbers thus far.

 

[Mix Master]

Not anymore

Damn bruh

Sony hasn't had a movie above $250m domestic since Skyfall and ASM1 in 2012. There's no way they're upset about Homecoming's numbers thus far.

sony should've did this YEARS AGO. I'm Sorry but ASM 1 and 2 completley burned me out/Fatigued me of the entire spider-man brand. I imagine others feel the same. That Marvel Studios logo can only do so much, to a *dead* franchise

 

[Cvie]

Clearly that describes a number on gaf. Keep in mind many expected Suicide Squad to bomb and expected WW for review poorly, Or did you forgot the numerous Gal Gadot cannot act insuations and the rumours that the film was a trainwreck

We even had a thread on here about WB's lack of marketing and number stating WB was sending it out to die between transformers and pirates of the carribean. It was hardly a niche view point.

There were plenty of people who expected the prior movies to drag it down and also underestimated Wonder Woman's preexisting appeal.

those positions are equally as brainless as the $1b for every other comic movie that comes out and the marketing thread was laughable. Also drag down and lower expectations isnt the same as bombing. The hyperbole swings are way worse for comic book films than anything else I find its hard to take alot of it seriously.

 

[Joni]

THe MCU more than most series seems to require a bit more involvement than that. We're at like the 4 major cross over film with many other films in the universe. Chances of someone making it all the way to this point while having having a completely casual engagement seems like it'd be all that common. Especially when those with even a passing interest will be told by the media that will have this information. You have to just watch some trailers have your more engage friends not tell you, not read any articles but still decide to show up to be surprised by this twist.

I have friends who go watch every of those movies, but they don't know what is coming in 2018. They don't seek out movie news sites and other media don't really spend time on this, they just see it when a new trailer pops up. And when we discuss the movies, we don't tend to talk about the 2019-2020 ones because those are not the ones we will be seeing soon. When you have 2-3 movies releasing each year, the ones coming over a year later aren't that interesting to look forward to.

 

[kswiston]

Sony hasn't had a movie above $250m domestic since Skyfall and ASM1 in 2012. There's no way they're upset about Homecoming's numbers thus far.

Beyond that, people at sony read the trades and look at competitor numbers.

The only sequels, reboots, or relanches to make more than their presecessors domestically in 2017 were Logan, GotG2, and John Wick 2. Spider-Man joins the list today.

 

[FTF]

SMH more than accomplished its goal...it'll gross $300m domestic and revived the franchise by making a good movie.

 

[Mix Master]

Maybe sony should cash out and ask disney for a billion dollar check.

Feige already looks like he's tired of amy pascal already.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

SMH more than accomplished its goal...it'll gross $300m domestic and revived the franchise by making a good movie.

Technically it was never dead. X-Men: Apocalypse didn't all of a sudden kill the franchise.

 

[Jigorath]

There's no way Homecoming is doing poorly if it makes more and costs less than the ASM movies.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Maybe sony should cash out and ask disney for a billion dollar check.

Feige already looks like he's tired of amy pascal already.

Have you seen it? Jokes and banter aside, I am really interested in your opinion on Homecoming.

 

[Mix Master]

There's no way Homecoming is doing poorly if it makes more and costs less than the ASM movies.

ASM2 Cost 200M HOW???
it made 700+ WW WHY???

how did sony fuck it up so badly.

 

[Principate]

I have friends who go watch every of those movies, but they don't know what is coming in 2018. They don't seek out movie news sites and other media don't really spend time on this, they just see it when a new trailer pops up. And when we discuss the movies, we don't tend to talk about the 2019-2020 ones because those are not the ones we will be seeing soon. When you have 2-3 movies releasing each year, the ones coming over a year later aren't that interesting to look forward to.

Yes but they discuss those trailers do you not think such information will come about in those discussions? It's not some big secret. Infinity war part 2 has 3.6 million results on google already the wikipedia page mentions all sorts of places mention it.

 

[Mix Master]

Have you seen it? Jokes and banter aside, I am really interested in your opinion on Homecoming.

I have

I loved it tbh, nice grounded movie, with a great villain carried by Keaton. In my opinion it stands toe to toe with SM2, which is an accomplishment out of the gate. The Giacchino score was forgettable apart from 2 or 3 scenes. However Zimmer made a terrible Score too so I guess I can give Michael a pass.

Sony needs to thank their lucky stars that marvel saved their franchise.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

those positions are equally as brainless as the $1b for every other comic movie that comes out and the marketing thread was laughable. Also drag down and lower expectations isnt the same as bombing. The hyperbole swings are way worse for comic book films than anything else I find its hard to take alot of it seriously.

Take a look at either the WW Prediction Thread or the Summer Blockbuster thread.

Not everyone thought it would bomb, but plenty of people did and put up the numbers of a failure.

 

[Cvie]

Take a look at either the WW Prediction Thread or the Summer Blockbuster thread.

Not everyone thought it would bomb, but plenty of people did and put up the numbers of a failure.

do yoou have a link to those threads?

 

[GamingPheasant]

Maybe sony should cash out and ask disney for a billion dollar check.

Feige already looks like he's tired of amy pascal already.

Spidey's IP is worth more than what Disney paid for Lucasfilm, and i think Disney got Lucasfilm for cheap. $1B only would be insulting, since all the movies before Homecoming already earned Sony nearly $4B worldwide.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

do yoou have a link to those threads?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1362503

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1378098

"Bomb" is of course a fuzzy term, but lots of predictions would rightly be called bombing.

EDIT: Fixed the first link.

 

[Cheebo]

Spidey's IP is worth more than what Disney paid for Lucasfilm, and i think Disney got Lucasfilm for cheap. $1B only would be insulting, since all the movies before Homecoming already earned Sony nearly $4B.

Lucas sold Lucasfilm on the cheap. He wanted it to go to Disney because he trusted them. He donated every penny of cash he got from the deal almost immediately after selling it.

 

[BronsonLee]

Spidey's IP is worth more than what Disney paid for Lucasfilm, and i think Disney got Lucasfilm for cheap.

Disney got Lucasfilm and Marvel for 4 billion a pop

The two smartest transactions in movie history because whew

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I have

I loved it tbh, nice grounded movie, with a great villain carried by Keaton. In my opinion it stands toe to toe with SM2, which is an accomplishment out of the gate. The Giacchino score was forgettable apart from 2 or 3 scenes. However Zimmer made a terrible Score too so I guess I can give Michael a pass.

Sony needs to thank their lucky stars that marvel saved their franchise.

Glad to hear that you enjoyed it

 

[Mix Master]

I kinda laugh at folks saying tony stark is overused. he's had a purpose in all the post A1 movies he's been in and RDJ is probably half out of the door already. And isn't he like the most popular Avenger worldwide? He probably wont be in IW *Too* much anyway.

We are approaching a point where Downey Jr. sees the truckload of money he made and will either ask for a 'Logan' or just quit altogether. Same thing happened to Hugh Jackman, he probably got tired of people calling the x-men Wolverine and friends.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Disney is never doing an R rated superhero movie like Logan.

 

[broncobuster]

ASM2 Cost 200M HOW???
it made 700+ WW WHY???

how did sony fuck it up so badly.

Hey, if there's one thing to give ASM2 over SMH, it's the visual effects. Sony spend a lot of money to make a pretty mess. More than they reasonably should've.

 

[BronsonLee]

Civil War told me Downey is all in on whatever they want to do as long as the story is good

 

[Cvie]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1202146

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1378098

"Bomb" is of course a fuzzy term, but lots of predictions would rightly be called bombing.

I'm 5 pages in on the WW thread and theres only a handful so far predicting a bomb, there are actually more expecting a good run than bomb I would say.

edit: just wonder what you would consider rightful bombing here?

 

[Sulik2]

It's seems like Homecoming is paying for the sins of AM2 despite being a reboot. It's still doing quite well, but isn't the breakout success like the first trilogy most of us were expecting. With quality established again I would expect homecoming 2 to be big though.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm 5 pages in on the WW thread and theres only a handful so far predicting a bomb, there are actually more expecting a good run than bomb I would say.

edit: just wonder what you would consider rightful bombing here?

I think the predictions of 150 M domestic and under could qualify given the budget and expectations, and what usually passed for "bomb" on GAF.

I'm not saying it was the majority view, but you can find lots of comments about it going to "flop super hard" (to quote that thread) and a lot of predictions that number and under.

And if you go back to the threads earlier in the year, before the good impressions hit, that sentiment was very very common. Even after the trailers hit.

 

[Error]

I wonder what this means for the batfleck movie.

Could easily suffer the same fate as Homecoming.

 

[broncobuster]

Civil War told me Downey is all in on whatever they want to do as long as the story is good

He honestly has an easy gig compared to the others. Most of his action scenes are talking to a camera. Nobody is expecting him to take off his shirt and flex his muscles.

When you hear how he has a fleet of trailers on set, it's like, keep on keeping on. It's the life. $15M for three days of work and some press tour.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I wonder what this means for the batfleck movie.

Could easily suffer the same fate as Homecoming.

That movie isn't gonna come out until maybe early 2020. By the time that happens it will be almost a decade since the last solo Batman movie. That's plenty of time to give people a break from Bat fatigue.

 

[Mix Master]

I wonder what this means for the batfleck movie.

Could easily suffer the same fate as Homecoming.

but the previous batman movie 'TDKR' was recieved well. I dont count bvs

 

[WaffleTaco]

I wonder what this means for the batfleck movie.

Could easily suffer the same fate as Homecoming.

Recent updates suggest that Batman will actually be a detective type. It will probably be a prequel. It's also being directed by Matt Reeves I think. And it won't be out for a while. If Justice League is good, the new Batman should be fine and the tone will likely be very different than Nolan's trilogy.

but the previous batman movie 'TDKR' was recieved well.

I think he's talking about BvS

 

[J_Viper]

I wonder what this means for the batfleck movie.

Could easily suffer the same fate as Homecoming.

If JL hits big, that automatically places him in a better place than Spidey was pre-Civil War.

That, and I imagine Reeves' Batman will be a hell of a lot more ambitious and wider in scope than Homecoming.

 

[Chamber]

My way early prediction is that Batfleck will also suffer the fate of $300m+.

 

[Future Foundation]

ASM2 Cost 200M HOW???
it made 700+ WW WHY???

how did sony fuck it up so badly.

I thought that at first, but Sony ImageWorks (I think that's the name) did some crazy VFX work on that movie.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I don't think it will matter if JL is a hit or not. The solo Batman movie is gonna have so much time between then that we don't even know what the state of the DCEU will be.

 

[SpideySenses]

Batfleck movie should be fine, for better or worse, he's been a much different Batman and Matt Reeves seems intent to make a movie unlike its predecessors. Everyone wants to point fingers away from Marvel but if their creative wanted another Peter back in high school for the third time in 15 years, they need to shoulder some of the blame for character fatigue.

 

[Mix Master]

if WB is smart Bats and WW will be the main focus of JL marketing

fuck cyborg tho wasteman character.

Batfleck movie should be fine, for better or worse, he's been a much different Batman and Matt Reeves seems intent to make a movie unlike its predecessors. Everyone wants to point fingers away from Marvel but if their creative wanted another Peter back in high school for the third time in 15 years, they need to shoulder some of the blame for character fatigue.

ehh him back in high school is for the best. Raimi and webb treated highschool as footnotes and background noise than actively using the setting for something cool.

 

[Random Human]

I wonder if in retrospect it was a mistake to put Spidey in Civil War because it meant Marvel couldn't give Homecoming the obvious marketing hook of "SPIDER-MAN IS BACK". Instead we saw him a year ago.

 

[mjc]

if WB is smart Bats and WW will be the main focus of JL marketing

fuck cyborg tho wasteman character.

Trash Cyborg took the place of godking John Stewart. Blasphemy.

I wonder if in retrospect it was a mistake to put Spidey in Civil War because it meant Marvel couldn't give Homecoming the obvious marketing hook of "SPIDER-MAN IS BACK". Instead we saw him a year ago.

Nah, I don't buy that.