-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
World of Warcraft |OT2|
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
I'm curious to see what they'll be giving Shaman. On Twitter we were joking that they'll just give us a rip off of Hand of Sacrifice and call it Spirit Link. I remember a proper Spirit Link being our 41 pt. talent back in the Wrath Beta, but they took it out. If I recall they claimed due to technical difficulties.
It'd be nice if they brought back Tidal Force like Alex mentioned, but I don't see that being viable enough as a strong defensive cooldown.
Right now Shaman have a very small toolbox, and use even less tools available. Riptide, Healing Rain, Earthshield, Chain Heal and Mana Tide are pretty much the big players. GHW/HW/HS are used in spot situations. I only use GHW on a tank with Nature's Swiftness and Unleashed Elements. Riptide and Healing Rain are used every cooldown, and Earth Shield is applied as needed on a tank. Beyond that it's mostly just Chain Heal.
I have to laugh at the fact that Blizzard decided to straight up buff Purification rather than just adjusting the other levels. I'm curious to see how this will pay off later on.
I think because they made the other melee classes viable. In vanilla you rarely saw an Arms or Fury Warrior, a Cat Feral Druid, Ret Paladin or an Enhancement Shaman. In Burning Crusade, Blizzard made those specs (minus Ret Paladins lol) viable in raids, so rogues weren't as numerous and weren't needed so they rerolled to something else.
And of course, Blizzard made a lot of fights melee unfriendly. Remember how many 360 cleave mobs there were at the start of BC?
It'd be nice if they brought back Tidal Force like Alex mentioned, but I don't see that being viable enough as a strong defensive cooldown.
Right now Shaman have a very small toolbox, and use even less tools available. Riptide, Healing Rain, Earthshield, Chain Heal and Mana Tide are pretty much the big players. GHW/HW/HS are used in spot situations. I only use GHW on a tank with Nature's Swiftness and Unleashed Elements. Riptide and Healing Rain are used every cooldown, and Earth Shield is applied as needed on a tank. Beyond that it's mostly just Chain Heal.
I have to laugh at the fact that Blizzard decided to straight up buff Purification rather than just adjusting the other levels. I'm curious to see how this will pay off later on.
HixxSAFC said:
I think because they made the other melee classes viable. In vanilla you rarely saw an Arms or Fury Warrior, a Cat Feral Druid, Ret Paladin or an Enhancement Shaman. In Burning Crusade, Blizzard made those specs (minus Ret Paladins lol) viable in raids, so rogues weren't as numerous and weren't needed so they rerolled to something else.
And of course, Blizzard made a lot of fights melee unfriendly. Remember how many 360 cleave mobs there were at the start of BC?
Fragamemnon
Member
Rogues were able to get up there with good fury warriors in vanilla. Mainly because back then exceeding tank threat over the span of a long fight was a serious issue for DPS and Fury's abilities weren't exactly threat-friendly.
Enhancement was popular in vanilla, especially in PvP, feral not so much because bears just couldn't do anything, arms was insane in PvP, and ret was hilariously bad. In raid PvE (all that mattered in vanilla) you never saw Feral Druids or Ret Paladins, you healed and you liked it even though you weren't nearly as good as the Holy Priests were.
Enhancement was popular in vanilla, especially in PvP, feral not so much because bears just couldn't do anything, arms was insane in PvP, and ret was hilariously bad. In raid PvE (all that mattered in vanilla) you never saw Feral Druids or Ret Paladins, you healed and you liked it even though you weren't nearly as good as the Holy Priests were.
Alex
Member
Rogue is still great in PvE and PvP, in terms of performance.
It's just not that exciting or interesting now, is all. The features that made it a stand out class in classic don't mean much anymore. Pacing and control has evolved in a very crazy way and it makes the core functionality just annoying than enticing to me, personally.
Rogue was cool shit back then, though. I don't yearn for classic, at all, if we went back to that I'd hit that unsub button so fast :lol But I do sometimes miss the relative simplicity of some of the PvP combat back then. I imagine folks who have played or are currently playing a Rogue feel like that sometimes, while they wade into the exploding disco in a fireworks factory that is a Battleground and try to land an opener on a guy that is pulsing like 8 forms of CC.
Would love to CC just completely gored, myself. Along with the amount of spammable, passive AoE (that just so happens to CC!)
It's just not that exciting or interesting now, is all. The features that made it a stand out class in classic don't mean much anymore. Pacing and control has evolved in a very crazy way and it makes the core functionality just annoying than enticing to me, personally.
Rogue was cool shit back then, though. I don't yearn for classic, at all, if we went back to that I'd hit that unsub button so fast :lol But I do sometimes miss the relative simplicity of some of the PvP combat back then. I imagine folks who have played or are currently playing a Rogue feel like that sometimes, while they wade into the exploding disco in a fireworks factory that is a Battleground and try to land an opener on a guy that is pulsing like 8 forms of CC.
Would love to CC just completely gored, myself. Along with the amount of spammable, passive AoE (that just so happens to CC!)
charlequin
Banned
LukeSmith said:
Being a mobile mana battery for the real healers wasn't fun for druids in vanilla and it isn't (enough to be) fun for shamans now. The boost to shaman healing throughput will be a huge relief given how far outside the pack we are right now and some improvement in the cooldown department will be a godsend for helping skilled players heal better in the clutch -- we simply don't have anything like the toolkit priests or paladins have access to in that department now.
I am sorry for any disc priests out there feeling their nerf right now, though! I have nothing against y'all.
Alex said:
I was going over the list of holy paladin cooldowns with a friend today, boggling at just how long it is, and he was like "oh, yeah, I don't even wind up using all of them, I mean, there's so many..." ANGRY SHAMAN GLARE
Alex
Member
TheExodu5 said:
Rogue is probably the best melee you can take to a raid, though. I'm mostly disheartened by how static their featureset has remained in strict contrast with the evolution of the game.
I've never had a Rogue though, so ultimately it means little to me. I just liked picking on casters with a friends back in AV in classic because it had a C'thun dagger.
Entropia said:
Huh? You use an 11k mana spell (healing rain) every 10 seconds in 5 minute plus long fights? Do you have like 5 million mana or something? Or even a WoL link. No way you use Ghw,hw, hs in "spot" situations. Given earth shield and mana tide are used when needed, there is no way you're spamming just riptide and healing rain when the cool down is up. And chain heal just isn't what it used to be like in wotlk
ToyMachine228
Member
Anyone on GAF play a Priest and looking to server transfer and raid? PM me if anyone is interested. We're 11/12. Should hopefully kill Nef this week.
Also, any Nef Phase 3 kiting tips?
Also, any Nef Phase 3 kiting tips?
I've long had this theory that rogue players level up with an advantage over other classes, be it ganking easily or having lots of weapon choices to oomph damage, then hit endgame and realize that no longer works. Then they complain.
Suddenly everyone was a rogue again for that brief period where Sub returned rogues to gankmode.
Suddenly everyone was a rogue again for that brief period where Sub returned rogues to gankmode.
vehn said:
Okay, I may not be truly using Healing Rain everytime it's off the cooldown, but Riptide? Yes. And you realize that some min/max guilds brought in Resto Shaman strictly for Healing Rain and Mana Tide? The shaman would just use Lightning Bolt in between.
Healing Surge is an absurd waste of mana and should only be used in some sort of dire situation on a key raid member, and only if NS is on the cooldown. I honestly have not used it since I went Resto main spec.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pdcit8zi42ty9nv6/details/23/?s=3969&e=4519
(I dc'd going into P2, so it's a tad skewed)
With Chain Heals buff, it's not quite as god tier as it was in Wrath but it's pretty good.
charlequin said:
And in stepped the Holy Priests: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dztp5uxj6t2zp00a/sum/healingDone/?s=5146&e=5556#Tiduz
PillowKnight
Member
This sounds horrible to me. The amount of overhealing you put out must be atrocious, and you basically niche yourself into raid healing.Entropia said:
PillowKnight said:
Well on a fight like cho'gall, EVERYONE is stacked up for most of the fight... so when the raid wide damage is about to go out I put out Healing Rain. Ergo, healings everyone.
I'm usually assigned to heal the melee, makes my healing rain even more effective.
Alex
Member
Cho'gall is a simple fight, but it's a lot of fun to me even with it on farm for a couple weeks now, second phase still goes haywire and is such a rush. I really have a good time with most of these bosses, actually. Pretty darn good raid tier, though I wish the scenery for this one was a little nicer.
I ended my WOTLK raiding with Ulduar though, so apparently I'm spoiled. Ulduar is def the king of raids, in my mind. Such fun presentation and such great bosses. Flame Levaithan and Mimiron especially, to my tastes. Mimiron is probably my favorite boss in the history of the game, so amazing still, man that fight just brings a stupid smile to my face. Love the V0-L7R-0N robot with each piece being a different phase and them combining at the end.
Ulduar in general was just such a big leap for the game and the boss design though, IMO. I can really gush about that place. Makes me miss my Priest a lil, though!
I hope the Firelands in 4.1 is as beneficial to more casual guilds like this current tier is, as in I really like the limited trash and very brisk pacing. You got challenging bosses, but more than ever they're setup so those of us on limited schedules can get through it in a speedy fashion, and I really appreciate that.
I ended my WOTLK raiding with Ulduar though, so apparently I'm spoiled. Ulduar is def the king of raids, in my mind. Such fun presentation and such great bosses. Flame Levaithan and Mimiron especially, to my tastes. Mimiron is probably my favorite boss in the history of the game, so amazing still, man that fight just brings a stupid smile to my face. Love the V0-L7R-0N robot with each piece being a different phase and them combining at the end.
Ulduar in general was just such a big leap for the game and the boss design though, IMO. I can really gush about that place. Makes me miss my Priest a lil, though!
I hope the Firelands in 4.1 is as beneficial to more casual guilds like this current tier is, as in I really like the limited trash and very brisk pacing. You got challenging bosses, but more than ever they're setup so those of us on limited schedules can get through it in a speedy fashion, and I really appreciate that.
wonderdung
Member
Alex said:
I still think Ulduar is the best raid they've made. It's still pretty amazing that they managed to create so many bosses with multi-tiered difficulties built right into the fights. I don't believe they even gated Ulduar like they did with ICC. It was just... here's your content, have fun for the next 6 months. And it worked. I don't recall another raid tier without artificial barriers keeping the top guilds so busy for so long.
Progression in Ulduar felt like it really meant something... but at the same time the sheer length of the instance made it brutal on farm.
Raid tiers have a tendency to overstay their welcome lately... I'm hoping we start hearing about the next raid before too long. In a month mid-tier guilds will be at 8/13 heroic or so and everyone else will be really burned out on this content.
AdventureRacing
Member
Karazhan is still my favourite raid by far. My guild regularly goes back and raid it for fun, love the atmosphere of the place.
I am in the minority in hating Ulduar. It was too big both in physical size and boss amount. I didn't like signing up for a Raid and giving up most of my day. It also burned my laptop dead by the size of the place. Major resource hog. I also hated the encounter design's lack of common sense, though all of wotlk suffered from that. Too many major hostile aoes the same color as the ground and other spells. Everything became a mess. I found Uldy to be visually unintuitive.
Alex said:
I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of it. I've been a combat rogue for the last 3 years and honestly regardless of what spec you choose it can be a bit boring. It also doesn't help that they're not afraid to drastically change a whole class's playstyle but are terrified of introducing any new changes in us. Seriously, look at any major patch notes and they are rarely longer than 4 lines for rogues. I'm not saying they should change things just for the sake of it, but god damn, I still play almost exactly the same as I did years ago.
Also, I still think Shadowstep or some variation of the ability should be available to all 3 specs.
cubicle47b
Member
Big surprise, Etoilet hates something about WoW.
Ulduar was a pretty good instance. It took a little too long to clear and I'm not fond of every fight (heroic XT 25 stands out) but it was visually amazing, most fights were great and a few were amazing (heroic Mimiron). Plus I got to dominate the damage meters on FL+4 because I was a Holy Paladin.
We killed heroic Chimaeron last night. It's a bit of a tense healing fight but pretty rewarding. We'll probably do heroic Atramedes next.
Ulduar was a pretty good instance. It took a little too long to clear and I'm not fond of every fight (heroic XT 25 stands out) but it was visually amazing, most fights were great and a few were amazing (heroic Mimiron). Plus I got to dominate the damage meters on FL+4 because I was a Holy Paladin.
We killed heroic Chimaeron last night. It's a bit of a tense healing fight but pretty rewarding. We'll probably do heroic Atramedes next.
charlequin
Banned
Alex said:
This is what everyone always seems to say. Whenever I talk to any of my friends who were playing during Wrath, they just tell me how amazing Ulduar was and then turn around to say how much they hated ToC. None of them can really explain why very well though!
wonderdung said:
Precedent suggests we'll probably see 4.1. drop somewhere between April and June, so... less time than we've already put into the expansion, probably, at this point.
Me, I'm hoping to actually start prodding my guild into starting on the current raid content in the next couple weeks, lulz.
cubicle47b
Member
charlequin said:
TotC normal modes were a joke, the place had no atmosphere, Faction Champions was a terrible fight, and between 10 and 25 and normal and heroic modes you could do the place up to 4 times in a week. I didn't hate it but I don't think it was very good. Both of our heroic Anub'arak kills (10 and 25) were satisfying, though. Both were top 200 US, IIRC.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Everyone knows BC raids are the best. Ulduar hard modes were fun though.
charlequin
Banned
Zaptruder said:
My wife does!
ToyMachine228
Member
Zaptruder said:
Our Hunter is our top DPS every fight. Pushes 20k. Pretty crazy.
I don't know why, but I still consider Ulduar to be the best of the WotLK raids. The introduction of hardmodes in there was really well done, and I REALLY liked the idea of fight mechanic based hardmodes, where you had to be geared/skilled enough to even be able to get the hardmode to pop (XT, Hodir, Council, etc.), and I really wish that method was brought back.cubicle47b said:
Also heroic Chimaeron still scares me as a tank. Just waiting to die is always scary when you're so low all the time.
Johnlenham
Member
I did through most of Lichking till late Icc when I went to Dk tank, Just got my copy today and im back to playing hunter for now. Might main as I put alot of effort into him pre ICCZaptruder said:
charlequin said:
I had specced into it this week due to a missing tank healer, not realizing how strong the buffs were, I played the spec last night and it is pretty much terribad again..or rather I should say why the fuck would you play disc when holy is so much more versatile?
They don't want you to use shields as your main healing..but the whole tree/mastery reveolves around shields, I'm really sick of the knee jerk reactions that priests have had since cataclysm. What was the point of beta and PTR?
wonderdung
Member
charlequin said:
cubicle nailed it. Between 10 and 25 mans it was being run way too often. It was short and Blizz tried to stretch it for way too long.
Heroic Anub'arak was an amazing fight, though. We only killed it once but that kill is still one of my favorite moments in a 6 year WoW stretch.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Zaptruder said:
i do.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Alex said:
Lucky dog. You didn't have to suffer thru that thing after it. Going from the arguable best to the rock bottom worst they've done was raw.
ToC was made on the cheap.
Lackluster art, reused art, less art.
Shitty, silly lore reasons. Rob Liefield-level dialog/plotting. Characters doing stupid things.
Immediately made everything in Ulduar short of Val'nyr and some trinkets useless.
Running the thing 4 times.
Started the trend of running long-outgeared heroics and 10-mans for Emblems of McGuffins to earn the right to wear gear you "earned" already from dead bosses.
Bosses mechanically weren't all bad, though. I liked FC, for example.
All in all though, it was an embarrassment to the Blizzard name. For them to make something arguably worse and unloved as their rookie attempt at PvE endgame (Molten Core) that late into the game, is sad. I'd expect simplistic crap like this from NCsoft or something, not from "the best MMO developers bar none."
I'm envious of a spec that isn't recklessly experimented on every 4 months, myself. I do feel for the lack of "ins" for that class, though.
Ramirez said:
Dexa said:
davepoobond said:
charlequin said:
ToyMachine228 said:
Sai-kun said:
Fair enough. Just assumed from the lack of hunter talk that no one really plays one
Anyone have an idea of what kinda nerf they're gonna hit aimed shot with?
Would Blizzard rescind the entire buff that 4.06 gave?
ToyMachine228
Member
Will post one more time just in case...My guild on Alterac Mountains-US needs a Priest. We're 11/12. We're a really tight 10-man guild of friends, and friends of friends. Our Priest just had a work change so he won't really be playing anymore. Need someone to take his place. PM me if interested.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
ZA did have something unique with its trollish qualities not seen elsewhere in the game but kara was so blah. Both were great for getting your alts some gear though.
ToyMachine228
Member
zugzug said:
This can't so some crazy coincidence...Has to be a joke. I know Mets' brother in real life. So he and the Balance Druid you are referring to, are kind of friends of mine.
We are Alliance by the way. Really, if there's any Priests looking for a new guild, or a new start on a different server or whatever, PM me.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Zaptruder said:Fair enough. Just assumed from the lack of hunter talk that no one really plays one
Anyone have an idea of what kinda nerf they're gonna hit aimed shot with?
Would Blizzard rescind the entire buff that 4.06 gave?
reduction on weapon damage it deals, probably. its at 240% right now, so it'll probably be down to 200% or something like that. the base damage will probably get nerfed too.
they said they were gonna buff Aspect of the Hawk though, which is desperately needed, considering 700 ap is balls and i dont even use it anymore. Aspect of the Fox has way more benefits to it than 700 ap has to offer.
the only thing that'd make me switch would be if it were 700 agility or 2000+ ap.
Finally got Heroic Cho'gall last night, what a bitch ass fight, sheesh. Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for this tier is great, shit has been murderously hard on a whole, not always due to encounter design, but the ever changing hotfixes and bugs and general untuned-ness of them has made it a looong road. I really hope the next tier is more thoroughly gone over by Blizz, a vast majority of the issues with the current fights were identified during beta and simply ignored. Frustrating to relearn shit every week, or just see them nerfed into oblivion when it was obvious they needed it beforehand.
Plus since Wrath has been such a joke for a year and a half everyone sucks way more ass than otherwise should. ugh.
Plus since Wrath has been such a joke for a year and a half everyone sucks way more ass than otherwise should. ugh.
charlequin
Banned
Ramirez said:
With the usual EJ caveats ("sim it," "details may vary based on your gear and rotation," etc.) my understanding is that crit and haste both deliver significantly more DPS increase per point than mastery for MM in the current tiers. Because the MM mastery procs additional shots (so they happen more due to haste and do more damage due to crit) there's a tipping point at which once you have crit X and haste Y, points into mastery become more valuable than raising crit and haste more, but current gear won't really get you high enough to hit those points so it's better to swap mastery gear for crit gear whenever possible and reforge all mastery you're left with (i.e. you want to be as low as possible.)
- Status