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[Angry Grimace]

Let's also not forget that a War the Ancients raids makes no sense at all in terms of the Cataclysm storyline.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Let's also not forget that a War the Ancients raids makes no sense at all in terms of the Cataclysm storyline.

It's gonna show us what Azeroth/Kalimdor looked like before the first cataclysm. That's badass and fits in nice with major change to the world in the past and present.

 

[johnsmith]

The War of the Ancients has a lot to do with Deathwing's history. It's where he really came out as a totally evil dude to the other aspects and had his body torn apart by the demon soul and had to get all those metal plates. Plus all the ancients you help and resurrect in Mount Hyjal died during the war of the ancients. So yeah, I think it fits in perfectly if you know about the lore.

 

[charlequin]

Let's also not forget that a War the Ancients raids makes no sense at all in terms of the Cataclysm storyline.

I don't get that at all. It fills exactly the same role that Culling of Stratholme does in Wrath.

Seems about the same quality of fare to me, although I've gotten more out of the writing this time with the extra slant to the side and the comedy. To be fair I just don't care much about their overarching plots. Deathwing actually got off his ass and did something and looks the coolest, so that's enough for me.

All the top level overarching plotlines in Warcraft are ultimately kind of uninspired and goofy, when you get down to it: it's not like Kael'thas was any less a scenery-chewing villain than Arthas or like any of the biggest lore figures have anything but Big Fancy Star Wars storylines attached to them. All the best things in the lore are the little pieces, the cool world-building touches and entertaining side-stories that you can experience little slices of. Besides that I really just care about going to cool-looking places (check) and fighting cool-looking bad guys (check) and maybe having some hilarious things happen.

If I was going to issue a lore complaint about Cataclysm, it's that the 80-85 zones are so "event-y" that there isn't time for the little quiet, subtle moments in random quest chains off to the side of the most important events going on, but the new 1-60 content is so full of those that I'm not really unsatisfied.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Any tips for tanking the adds and healing the kiting tank in Nef Phase 3?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't get that at all. It fills exactly the same role that Culling of Stratholme does in Wrath.



All the top level overarching plotlines in Warcraft are ultimately kind of uninspired and goofy, when you get down to it: it's not like Kael'thas was any less a scenery-chewing villain than Arthas or like any of the biggest lore figures have anything but Big Fancy Star Wars storylines attached to them. All the best things in the lore are the little pieces, the cool world-building touches and entertaining side-stories that you can experience little slices of. Besides that I really just care about going to cool-looking places (check) and fighting cool-looking bad guys (check) and maybe having some hilarious things happen.

If I was going to issue a lore complaint about Cataclysm, it's that the 80-85 zones are so "event-y" that there isn't time for the little quiet, subtle moments in random quest chains off to the side of the most important events going on, but the new 1-60 content is so full of those that I'm not really unsatisfied.

The War of the Ancients was mostly about the Burning Legion being drawn to Azeroth. I suppose Deathwing was THERE and did something of relevance to his history, but I don't remember that being the main point of that conflict at all.

 

[keeblerdrow]

The way the Burning Legion was ultimately defeated was by each of the aspects lending part of their essences to the thing that became the Demon Soul. Everything that is happening in Azeroth right now is a direct consequence of events that occurred at the end of the War of the Ancients.

 

[Alex]

I just hope Firelands is nothing like Hyjal, it being an outdoor zone and all. Battle for Mount Hyjal was an incredibly lame ass raid.

 

[Entropia]

I doubt it'll be setup like Battle for Hyjal. I have a feeling more like AQ if anything.

 

[Rokam]

It'll be Molten Core with a skyline. So I'm not sure if anyone here plays a warlock, but damn got to 85 and came to the realization it's almost like playing a healer. Just staring at bars waiting for CDs, making sure buffs are up, and watching dot timers. What a thrilling class. :/


Edit: So queue for Heroic HoO need a ring off one of the side bosses as its my last 333 item. Group skips it, can't queue to get others. Awesome design Blizzard. Glad I waited 40 minutes for that. I even asked and the tank was all for it, but the healer refused and he had friends in the group. It's shocking to me that Blizzard has yet to implement some sort of check box for full clear so I get grouped with those people. I don't mind waiting an extra 10-20 minutes if it means I actually get to kill the boss I need.

 

[bunbun777]

The War of the Ancients was mostly about the Burning Legion being drawn to Azeroth. I suppose Deathwing was THERE and did something of relevance to his history, but I don't remember that being the main point of that conflict at all.

Oh he was there. He convinced the other dragon aspects to put their power into a weapon which he used to not only kill the burning legion with but then he killed night elves and then used it on the dragons themselves. The dragons retreated and never were the same again.

The Old Gods were the ones to convince DW of this. They knew that this would bring Sargeras to Azeroth, and in effect release them from their chains.

I sometimes wonder if it was the OG's themselves that got Sargeras to eventually go crazy and join the dark side....

 

[dimb]

In the first year of vanilla, counting the stuff it launched with, there were 6 endgame 5-mans and 4 total raids: Onyxia, Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, and Zul'gurub. From the release of Molten Core to the release of Blackwing Lair, there was an eight-month gap. Sure, there were more "major" patches, but some of them added nothing in terms of PvE end-game content.

In the first year of Wrath, there were 12 five-mans added (all endgame-viable due to heroics) and five or seven raids (counting Vault of Archavon, depending on whether you count Onyxia and Naxx as new.) It was six months from the expansion release until the first new raid content was added with Ulduar.

When 4.1 comes out, it'll be up to seven or nine five-mans (depending on whether you count SFK and Deadmines) and five raids (counting Baradin Hold.) If it hits in April, it'll be five months from the expansion to the first major patch.

In conclusion: it's possible that by the numbers the actual boss count is going to turn out lower, but in general the idea that content used to come out more quickly or in significantly greater volume simply isn't true.

Also: less than 1/10th of a percent of all raiding guilds have cleared all the current raid content including Sinestra, and maybe 10% of raiding guilds have downed even a single heroic boss, so the idea that there's this dearth of content and everyone is out of stuff to do already is pretty ridiculous to me.

Or, shorter version:

Sorry. Guess I need to specify that to me personally, hard modes aren't new content. They might be a way to keep busy, like playing MGS3 on European Extreme instead of Normal or something, but it's still the same bosses.

I also don't think all content added needs to be PvE related. Anything can keep the game fresh from new quest lines to weather to PvP zones. It keeps the game feeling fresh.

Also, I don't think your numbers are particularly fair. Pure number of dungeons/raids is kind of a meaningless number beyond the setting changes. To begin with, the reality of the situation is that Vanilla's end game content lasted by far the longest. I don't know how to put it exactly, but the length that it took to do everything also made this content relevant for a longer period of time. You're pointing out that there were 12 5-man's at the end of Wrath but I assure you that I didn't want to run them very often, and they were poorly tuned and balanced to match. Naxxramas was a gimped version of an instance that had already been run, and the remaining "raids" were one boss and done quickies. You are seriously overselling Wrath.

Cataclysm has at least improved upon that, but the five mans are still poorly tuned and largely irrelevant after a few shots, and the boss count still feels low. It would be unfair to include BWL before Cata's next expansion hits, but the core numbers are pretty similar. 14 bosses for Cata versus 11 for Vanilla. The problem is that Vanilla grew exponentially, with BWL nearly doubling the number of available raid bosses. The game was also setting up AQ 20 and 40, which was released in January of the next year and were both large instances. I don't expect the Cata patches to include more than 6 or 7 bosses.

I think what's really missing is those smaller patches though, to keep people busy in the interim between large raid additions to the game. As it is they seem non-existent in Cata, but they did a great job of keeping players at least thinking new things were going on in the world in old WoW.

 

[Ferrio]

I'm kinda curious how they're going to handle deathwing's destruction in the next expansion. Going to be weird to see stormwind still in ruins, and zones on fire still.

Also prediction about the end of this xpac. When deathwing dies he turns back normal briefly, and tells you about the old god (N'Zath) that turned and where it currently is. The final boss/instance of the xpac will be N'Zath.

 

[KernelPanic]

Edit: So queue for Heroic HoO need a ring off one of the side bosses as its my last 333 item. Group skips it, can't queue to get others. Awesome design Blizzard. Glad I waited 40 minutes for that. I even asked and the tank was all for it, but the healer refused and he had friends in the group. It's shocking to me that Blizzard has yet to implement some sort of check box for full clear so I get grouped with those people. I don't mind waiting an extra 10-20 minutes if it means I actually get to kill the boss I need.

As much as I love my enhance shaman I've pretty much gone resto, most of my heroic runs only resto gear drops anyway.

Waiting 30-35 mins for a group that may disband 5 minutes in is just ridiculous.

Fortunately I like healing so far, I may respec my druid to resto again and give it a shot to compare druid to shaman healing. I haven't quite gotten the grasp of resto shaman just yet.

 

[Thoraxes]

Let's also not forget that a War the Ancients raids makes no sense at all in terms of the Cataclysm storyline.

It'll probably mention the creation of the then named Dragon Soul, Deathwing's betrayal, hints of the Old God influence that corrupted Deathwing, not to mention the closing of the portal that was being used to summon Sargeras into the world, which also made the well of eternity explode (when it closed) to create the Maelstrom, which, judging by Thrall's current position and actions, the Maelstrom is expanding, and threatening to start to swallow all of Azeroth into its abyss.

Pretty much everything in the game now has everything to do with the events of what happens in the War of the Ancients.

Also

Spoiler

Broxigar and Malorne die

;_;

I just wonder which version of the events they'll use though, I kinda liked the novels, and additionally, this may be able to push forward the bronze dragonflight timeline even more, to see if the theories of Nozdormu being the creator of the infinite dragonflight is true!

 

[Kraftwerk]

Man i cant wait for the Deathwing fight. 1 Billion HP in hard mode, awwwww yeeeeeee.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Edit: So queue for Heroic HoO need a ring off one of the side bosses as its my last 333 item. Group skips it, can't queue to get others. Awesome design Blizzard. Glad I waited 40 minutes for that. I even asked and the tank was all for it, but the healer refused and he had friends in the group. It's shocking to me that Blizzard has yet to implement some sort of check box for full clear so I get grouped with those people. I don't mind waiting an extra 10-20 minutes if it means I actually get to kill the boss I need.

Is there something preventing you from running hHoO with some guildies or find 4 other people in trade chat and run it with them? It's not like the introduction of the Dungeon Finder made it impossible to gather people and run a dungeon.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Is there something preventing you from running hHoO with some guildies or find 4 other people in trade chat and run it with them? It's not like the introduction of the Dungeon Finder made it impossible to gather people and run a dungeon.

Guildies maybe, but 4 others from trade? like anyone is going to run an instance for one boss instead of queuing up

 

[keeblerdrow]

I'd just advertise that you're putting together a full run of heroic HoO. It used to work all the time because people are bored enough. Even now. You just won't get the immediate gratification rush that LFD gives now.

 

[Rokam]

Not in a raiding guild, and my friends usually aren't on at 5 AM. I understand why people skip bosses, I don't understand why Blizzard hasn't implemented some sort of system to ensure a full run for those who need it.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Because they shouldn't have to program in social skills any further than they already have?

 

[Rokam]

I don't believe asking in trade for a group is a social skill, and I don't think most people join a group to be sociable. But I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, as this could go on for hours.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Did the healer have 2 people he/she queued with? If so, it'd require the tanks vote to kick you. You and the tank had the leverage. He's the leader and they can't kick either one of you.

 

[Miragith]

Edit: So queue for Heroic HoO need a ring off one of the side bosses as its my last 333 item. Group skips it, can't queue to get others. Awesome design Blizzard. Glad I waited 40 minutes for that. I even asked and the tank was all for it, but the healer refused and he had friends in the group. It's shocking to me that Blizzard has yet to implement some sort of check box for full clear so I get grouped with those people. I don't mind waiting an extra 10-20 minutes if it means I actually get to kill the boss I need.

I would've tanked it for you buddy. Maybe tonight before raid!

 

[KernelPanic]

I don't really get the point of optional bosses, players will usually take the quickest route to the end of an instance especially as the loot from heroics bosses becomes less and less valuable.

I'm about 50/50 on PuG'ing HoO, speed run vs. full clear.

 

[Rokam]

Did the healer have 2 people he/she queued with? If so, it'd require the tanks vote to kick you. You and the tank had the leverage. He's the leader and they can't kick either one of you.

Aye 3 of them were guildies. So no stalemating them sadly.

And yeah optional bosses are really stupid on Blizzards part. If only they had an example they could look at from Wrath so they wouldn't do it again....

 

[davepoobond]

I'm kinda curious how they're going to handle deathwing's destruction in the next expansion. Going to be weird to see stormwind still in ruins, and zones on fire still.

Also prediction about the end of this xpac. When deathwing dies he turns back normal briefly, and tells you about the old god (N'Zath) that turned and where it currently is. The final boss/instance of the xpac will be N'Zath.

how do you know we won't kill N'zath first and Deathwing will be "beyond repair"?

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

It's gonna show us what Azeroth/Kalimdor looked like before the first cataclysm. That's badass and fits in nice with major change to the world in the past and present.

It could foreshadow a showdown with Azshara.

I just hope Firelands is nothing like Hyjal, it being an outdoor zone and all. Battle for Mount Hyjal was an incredibly lame ass raid.

Except Archimonde. (MENAK SHEE THRESH!!!!)

Edit: So queue for Heroic HoO need a ring off one of the side bosses as its my last 333 item. Group skips it, can't queue to get others. Awesome design Blizzard. Glad I waited 40 minutes for that. I even asked and the tank was all for it, but the healer refused and he had friends in the group. It's shocking to me that Blizzard has yet to implement some sort of check box for full clear so I get grouped with those people. I don't mind waiting an extra 10-20 minutes if it means I actually get to kill the boss I need.

This is what happens when you funnel people into dungeons where they need nothing IN them, just for having gone IN them. I pray the token + mcguffin thing doesn't happen again, as that cements this mentality.

I think what's really missing is those smaller patches though, to keep people busy in the interim between large raid additions to the game. As it is they seem non-existent in Cata, but they did a great job of keeping players at least thinking new things were going on in the world in old WoW.

Again, funneling. I mean, hell, I raided hard for 3 years and I still wouldn't want JUST raids (this explains why I didn't like the loot or challenge payoff dichotomy of Wrath raiding either).

 

[Ferrio]

how do you know we won't kill N'zath first and Deathwing will be "beyond repair"?

Because N'zath is the bigger fish. Deathwing is a peon compared to it story wise. Also the whole redemption bullshit metzen likes to pull.

 

[Meatfist]

Another WoW addict checking in.

Any holy paladins around? I recently leveled a paladin to 85 between raids on my hunter and I'm finding healing heroics immensely satisfying. I'd like to hear your stories as far as general healing strategies and AddOns used.

 

[davepoobond]

Because N'zath is the bigger fish. Deathwing is a peon compared to it story wise. Also the whole redemption bullshit metzen likes to pull.

uhhhh how about yogg saron being killed before arthas? yogg saron was technically a bigger threat than lich king.


I dont think it's going to play out so plainly as you put it. Deathwing is the big boss of the expansion whether or not you like it. I don't see N'zath's face plastered on the box of Cataclysm, do you? It would be pretty hoky and Final Fantasy-esque to all of a suddent have a "more menacing threat" be the true antagonist of this expansion.


This is a western game, so Deathwing will be the last boss. Not to mention they spent a lot of time on modeling him.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Another WoW addict checking in.

Any holy paladins around? I recently leveled a paladin to 85 between raids on my hunter and I'm finding healing heroics immensely satisfying. I'd like to hear your stories as far as general healing strategies and AddOns used.

Grid+Clique+DBM and you're set.

 

[TheExodu5]

Man leveling 70-80 is like hitting a brick wall. It takes a good 8-10 dungeons for a level. Oh, and non-heroic wotlk gear sucks. Spell plate all over the place. Next to no tanking plate.

 

[Ferrio]

uhhhh how about yogg saron being killed before arthas? yogg saron was technically a bigger threat than lich king.


I dont think it's going to play out so plainly as you put it. Deathwing is the big boss of the expansion whether or not you like it. I don't see N'zath's face plastered on the box of Cataclysm, do you? It would be pretty hoky and Final Fantasy-esque to all of a suddent have a "more menacing threat" be the true antagonist of this expansion.


This is a western game, so Deathwing will be the last boss. Not to mention they spent a lot of time on modeling him.

But Yogg was a side story. N'zath is the direct reason why Deathwing is a threat. Maybe they will save him for next expansion though.

 

[Manus]

Ugh, I'm to a point where I'm sick of all these hotfixes and so many frequent changes. I'm tempted to not play for a month or two till they can make up their mind on some changes.

 

[Einbroch]

Last night on WoW tonight, forever. What should I do? I have about 10k gold, thinking about giving it away to lowbies that I know don't have high level mains.

 

[Alex]

Last night on WoW tonight, forever. What should I do? I have about 10k gold, thinking about giving it away to lowbies that I know don't have high level mains.

Make em jump through hoops for it! MAKE THEM EARN IT.

If I ever decide to stop for good, I will totally have a ball with all the money I've accumulated. What they need is an item in the toyshop that allows you to put gold on the end of a string and trail it along back a mount.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I like how Blizzard still hasn't fixed Lady Naz'jar's Spirit of Redemption bug so you just randomly waste an hour in the queue when some stupid saps queue for more people after it breaks.

 

[Sai-kun]

Last night on WoW tonight, forever. What should I do? I have about 10k gold, thinking about giving it away to lowbies that I know don't have high level mains.

transfer to executus-alliance and give it to me

thanks in advance

 

[Pollux]

i know this is going to be ignored among the huge thread, but I've been playing for about 6 months now, and was wondering....what realm do most GAFers play on?

also is there a GAF guild or something?

if someone would please PM me with this stuff I would really appreciate it....thanks in advance.

 

[Rokam]

But Yogg was a side story. N'zath is the direct reason why Deathwing is a threat. Maybe they will save him for next expansion though.

I'd like to see Deathwing swoop in and steal our kill on N'zoth. Basically uses us as pawns to weaken him, and now he has no puppetmaster and is free to do his own bidding. Make the final patch chaos for the most part. No redemption pure evil.

 

[Cyrillus]

Last night on WoW tonight, forever. What should I do? I have about 10k gold, thinking about giving it away to lowbies that I know don't have high level mains.

Do it up old-school style; make a youtube video of you sharding your gear to some emo rock song.

 

[TheExodu5]

Last night on WoW tonight, forever. What should I do? I have about 10k gold, thinking about giving it away to lowbies that I know don't have high level mains.

Sell your account on Craigslist.

 

[davepoobond]

Sell your account on Craigslist.

then get it back saying you were hacked

and then sell it again. you could probably only get away with it twice.

 

[Entropia]

i know this is going to be ignored among the huge thread, but I've been playing for about 6 months now, and was wondering....what realm do most GAFers play on?

also is there a GAF guild or something?

if someone would please PM me with this stuff I would really appreciate it....thanks in advance.

The closest you will get is "In Defense of the Genre" Horde on the Area 52 server.

 

[Einbroch]

Nah mang, I can't sell my account. How much would I fetch for it anyway? Probably not much since it maybe takes two weeks to get to 85 nowadays.

 

[TheExodu5]

A friend of mine got $550 for his normal raid geared 80 Mage in WotLK.

 

[Flib]

Well my guild finally fell apart and the main core (me and about 4 others) app'd and got pulled into one of the top guilds on our server for 25's. They weren't recruiting tanks, so I got pulled in as boomkin, which I'm worried about because my gear is kind of terrible (it was my offspec).

Anyway, tonight was the official start of my initiation period, and a tank was gone so they actually pulled me in as one of the tanks for the raid. Did Blackwing Descent up through Atramedes, and then tanked heroic Halfus, which we got the guild's first heroic kill of, and then took down Twin Dragons.

Kind of in a weird spot now, as I've shown myself as a capable tank who they like, but now I have to perform as a Boomkin, unless I get pulled into to tank one of the new 10mans they may form. Iit was fun to finally be back to progressing though.

Also, I feel bad for healers and interrupters on heroic halfus. Dear lord.

 

[Entropia]

Also, I feel bad for healers and interrupters on heroic halfus. Dear lord.

Yeah, I got brought along to a Heroic Halfus in a 10 man, I pretty much was on Halfus the entire time to interrupt. :|

 

[theinfinityissue]

But Yogg was a side story. N'zath is the direct reason why Deathwing is a threat. Maybe they will save him for next expansion though.

oh. I thought it was kinda weird that Cho'gall and all those folks were ranting and raving about C'thun or Yoggs who are both already dead. I thought he was trying to resurrect one of them, I didn't even realize a third player had entered the fray. It's funny, trying to level so fast and get to raiding you don't even notice the context for the actions you're undertaking.

I bet this N'zoth guy is gonna be one hell of a fight, him being the last (?) old god. That drives me nuts tho, where in the Cata content is the name N'zoth even mentioned?

edit: Wow, looking deeper this seems really cool. There are apparently Puzzle Boxes of Yogg Saron you can pick up with archaeology that give out these crazy whispers possibly about N'zoth, I'm going to finally have to buckle down and level Arc. A couple of them I saw, "'There is a little lamb lost in dark woods...', and 'The silent, sleeping, staring houses in the backwoods always dream... It would be merciful to tear them down...'" totally give me a vibe of the Goldshire kids, my favorite wow mystery ever.

The stuff blizz does with the old gods is so much cooler than the lich king, deathwing stuff.