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[Bisnic]

I don't even want to waste time with pugs on the Zandalari heroics. Not only are the queue times much longer than the regular heroics for DPS, the chances of failure and group breaking before we reach last boss are 10x higher, and all this for a slight upgrade from 346 blues to 353 epics? No thanks. My alts will slowly get their VP from regular heroics and enjoy their 346 blues, 359 rep and cheap BOE purples for less frustration thank you.

I have this guy on my guild who is raging everything he is online because his Zandalari pugs have douchebags, noobs or ninjas, all this because he wants to upgrade his 346 blues to 353 epics. Such a pity and a waste of time. I tried to explain to him the same thing i wrote in this post, but he was too mad to even have a reasonable discussion with him. I don't understand these kind of people, they're not even having fun, why bother?

 

[Thoraxes]

The new patch notes make me sad to be a bear tank. I understand we're the best threat generating tanks, but this is going to ruin it now, and we're going to have to heavily depend on misdirects, tricks, and other abilities of that sort. They really need to give threat dropping abilities to warriors.

I just really don't understand the method behind some of these huge nerfs. I'll keep tanking, sure, but my QoL has severely dropped.

Also very odd, bears will now have a passive 24% magic damage reduction, and 18% physical damage reduction. I haven't noticed bears tanking more damage than other tanks, but i'll welcome this until it gets nerfed, anyways.

 

[Alex]

Threat is pretty much irrelevant in this tier for every tank outside of the ridiculous nature of Single Minded Fury and it's ramp up. But that's a problem every tank will occasionally have. Just tell the person to open with autoattacks or have a salv put on them.

The damage reductions are not large, though, but do consider that you simply do way too much threat above other tanks due to the nature of Feral and it's gear and can often outDPS good AoE classes in some situations. It's silly to come out of raid trash with a Feral Tank in 2nd place with 28,000 DPS.

Also, I do not think the damage reduction will be nerfed, Bears were flat out taking too much damage and they seem really afraid to dig into Shield users. The recent change to Holy Shield smacks more of flavor that nerf to me, Paladin desperately needs some life injected into it's tanking.

I figure they'll buff Blood DK before the end of 4.2, as well, although more in QoL ways than potency, cept maybe BShield scaling. Blood DK is a micro nightmare in any high end setting.

 

[Mairu]

Threat is pretty much irrelevant in this tier for every tank outside of the ridiculous nature of Single Minded Fury and it's ramp up. But that's a problem every tank will occasionally have. Just tell the person to open with autoattacks or have a salv put on them.

The damage reductions are not large, though, but do consider that you simply do way too much threat above other tanks due to the nature of Feral and it's gear and can often outDPS good AoE classes in some situations. It's silly to come out of raid trash with a Feral Tank in 2nd place with 28,000 DPS.

Also, I do not think the damage reduction will be nerfed, Bears were flat out taking too much damage and they seem really afraid to dig into Shield users. The recent change to Holy Shield smacks more of flavor that nerf to me, Paladin desperately needs some life injected into it's tanking.

I figure they'll buff Blood DK before the end of 4.2, as well, although more in QoL ways than potency, cept maybe BShield scaling. Blood DK is a micro nightmare in any high end setting.

I don't think I like turning Holy Shield into Shield Block. I hope they do more changes to some of the other Protection Paladin talents since with the recent nerf to WoG it made talents like Eternal Glory and Guarded by the Light (which is even more pointless after the Holy Shield Change) pretty pointless.

 

[Thoraxes]

Threat is pretty much irrelevant in this tier for every tank outside of the ridiculous nature of Single Minded Fury and it's ramp up. But that's a problem every tank will occasionally have. Just tell the person to open with autoattacks or have a salv put on them.

Also, I do not think the damage reduction will be nerfed, Bears were flat out taking too much damage and they seem really afraid to dig into Shield users. The recent change to Holy Shield smacks more of flavor that nerf to me, Paladin desperately needs some life injected into it's tanking.

It's not so much once the fight is going, that's fine. With the increase in damage reduction, we'll be getting less rage, and when we take less damage vengeance won't stack up nearly as quick as it needs to, and overall, threat is going to be an even larger problem at the beginning of any fight more-so than it already is now.

Also, as for our current tanks in my guild, i've actually been the one taking the most normal amount of damage compared to our pallies, DKs, and warriors. I honestly have no idea why, but that's the main reason why the buff made no sense to me. It's due to the situation i'm currently in, which I recognize isn't applicable to all of WoW's playerbase.

 

[Alex]

Damage taken depends on content and the gear (DK's are godlike in 5 mans, etc), in heroic raiding it's currently Paladin = Warrior > Amazingly well played DK > Druid > Not-so-amazingly well played DK.

DKs and Druids also just do not scale quite as well as the shield users currently, hence why they're screwing around with all of this. Lots o' data from Firelands testing.

I don't think I like turning Holy Shield into Shield Block. I hope they do more changes to some of the other Protection Paladin talents since with the recent nerf to WoG it made talents like Eternal Glory and Guarded by the Light (which is even more pointless after the Holy Shield Change) pretty pointless.

I feel like the best thing they could do for Prot Paladin in terms of just being interesting is take another pass on Holy Power. Right now it's basically ShoR for single target, Inquisition for multi and every 20 you throw up a WoG. It's pretty simple compared to what it should be.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Our guild was "Insomnia" on Draka Alli. We managed server first Nefarian (reg), but could only get to about 3/12H because there were no great players to recruit on Alli side. Draka isn't a bad server, it has a good size population, but it just wasn't working out for progression raiding.

Eh, it's kind of worse on the Horde side with a smaller pool of people. I originally transferred to be with Unbridled in Wrath and was with Misplaced Priorities (25 man) for a couple of weeks in Cata, but neither worked out for me.

But I do know of Insomnia - saw quite a few of you in Tol Barad in the early weeks of Cata (was pretty active in there.) I know I was a bit shocked to see the "Defender of a Shattered World" title on one of you in the first week or two of release around doing Tol Barad dailies.

 

[TheYanger]

Probably stems from the imba of shamans and pvp racials in vanilla.

You mean the imba of paladins being better at most things?

Horde just gets more Blizz love, it wasn't more popular until the end of BC in general. But yeah being on a great server makes a HUGE difference. we have GDKPs and pug friendly groups on mal'ganis that are as good as legitimate guilds on bad servers, it makes playing with alts way better and gives org a lot of life.

Had no idea there were so many other M'G players here either

 

[Swag]

Had no idea there were so many other M'G players here either

What guild are you in?

Edit: Judging by the date you posted you killed Sinestra, I'm gonna guess Juggernaut

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

You mean the imba of paladins being better at most things?

Horde just gets more Blizz love, it wasn't more popular until the end of BC in general. But yeah being on a great server makes a HUGE difference. we have GDKPs and pug friendly groups on mal'ganis that are as good as legitimate guilds on bad servers, it makes playing with alts way better and gives org a lot of life.

Had no idea there were so many other M'G players here either

Bloodlust mothafucka

Seriously, like 75% of top PVE guilds are horde because of this.

 

[Tamanon]

Bloodlust mothafucka

Seriously, like 75% of top PVE guilds are horde because of this.

Wait, I thought Bloodlust was in BC, when the Alliance also got their first shamans. I thought the vanilla popularity was due to Tremor and Poison/Disease cleaning totems.

 

[Hixx]

Wait, I thought Bloodlust was in BC, when the Alliance also got their first shamans. I thought the vanilla popularity was due to Tremor and Poison/Disease cleaning totems.

Paladins and Dwarf Priests > shamans in vanilla.

Fear Ward trivialized a lot of mechanics for Alliance, where Horde tanks would have to stance dance.

 

[Tamanon]

Ah the ol' "Dwarf priests only" days. And now they're incredibly rare, lol

 

[markot]

Remember wotf pre nerf >_<

And those damn 2h wf crits.... always had you checking your combat log for 'wtf how?!'

 

[Angry Grimace]

Bloodlust mothafucka

Seriously, like 75% of top PVE guilds are horde because of this.

Horde was not more popular than Alliance in vanilla for a lot of reasons; bloodlust is pretty useless when your DPS threshold is 10% lower because you're threatcapped due to tranquil air sucking compared to Blessing of Salvation plus not having fear ward sucked ass.

 

[Alex]

Bloodlust didn't come in until BC, which also gave both factions access to Paladin/Shaman so it's probably not a good scale to go by!

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Horde was not more popular than Alliance in vanilla for a lot of reasons; bloodlust is pretty useless when your DPS threshold is 10% lower because you're threatcapped due to tranquil air sucking compared to Blessing of Salvation plus not having fear ward sucked ass.

The fact that totems, unlike blessings, had a range on their buffs was a huge pain in the ass too. I'm sure fights like Twin Emps were really fun when Shamans would have to drop new totems down on every switch.

 

[wonderdung]

Horde had better PVP racials in classic, Alliance had better PVE. Excluding human rogues, which sucked in PVP.

I miss pink trinket + nuke shamans and ret bombing paladins a little to be honest. I really want Blizz to setup a server running the last patch before TBC.

 

[Trasher]

I haven't played WoW since March...

I check my email today, and there's a message from Blizzard notifying me of a 72 hour ban for using hacks. I've never used a hack once in my life. There is also a message notifying me that my account has had its password changed. Awesome!

So I sent in a ticket of my situation. Is there anything else I need to do to check my computer for keyloggers or anything? I use a Mac fyi.

This may explain why my RealID friends list was cleared when I was on SC2 the other day...

 

[man of science]

No authenticator?

 

[Trasher]

No authenticator?

I've had an account since release. Never had a reason for an authenticator until now apparently lol.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Bloodlust didn't come in until BC, which also gave both factions access to Paladin/Shaman so it's probably not a good scale to go by!

Yeah I was wrong. Still doesn't change the fact that most of the top guilds were/are horde. probably trying to emulate Nihilum.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah I was wrong. Still doesn't change the fact that most of the top guilds were/are horde. probably trying to emulate Nihilum.

The top raiding guild in vanilla wasn't Nihilum, it was Death and Taxes, which was an alliance guild.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

The top raiding guild in vanilla wasn't Nihilum, it was Death and Taxes, which was an alliance guild.

They were bested by Nihilum.

 

[wonderdung]

I check my email today, and there's a message from Blizzard notifying me of a 72 hour ban for using hacks. I've never used a hack once in my life. There is also a message notifying me that my account has had its password changed. Awesome!

So I sent in a ticket of my situation. Is there anything else I need to do to check my computer for keyloggers or anything? I use a Mac fyi.

This may explain why my RealID friends list was cleared when I was on SC2 the other day...

Hm, I use a mac as well. As far as I'm aware the only problems are web/email based phishing schemes. You know, people sending out emails from "Blizzard" saying things like "your account has been banned for 72 hours." Doesn't rule out the possibility of real keyloggers, but I believe the email stuff is much more common. It's a pain because now my mail provider filters legit email from Blizzard as well.

Authenticator is worth your while if you have a WoW account linked to your battle.net account. I'll admit it's a pain in the ass to type in the code every time you start SC2, but it's probably worth it just to be safe.

 

[Trasher]

Wow. All of my characters have been restored already. That was fast.

 

[Angry Grimace]

They were bested by Nihilum.

Even assuming that was true, (which it isn't because we were talking about vanilla and Nihlum had a total of 2 world firsts in vanilla, one of which was C'thun, which was bullshit) I don't' see where you're getting your theory that all the raiding guilds were horde in Vanilla, because they weren't.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I don't' see where you're getting your theory that all the raiding guilds were horde in Vanilla, because they weren't.

It gets tiring trying to talk with you when you put words into my mouth.

 

[ILOVEASIANS]

I remember Death and Taxes first Sapphiron intro video way back when. Had Rammstein playing during it. Remeber getting chills the first time I watched it. Especially since my guild was awful and we had about a 0.0001% chance of seeing it when it was relevant.

 

[markot]

Horde had better PVP racials in classic

They still do

 

[GLopez12]

Human is probably just behind Rocket Jump, Arcane Torrent and War Stomp.

 

[Alucrid]

So I was talking to a friend and he started to play WoW again. I'm think about it too...I'm gonna have a lot of down time t his summer and there's not many games coming out that's g oing to eat up my time. Should I dive back in? How much would the total cost of everything be?

 

[Angry Grimace]

It gets tiring trying to talk with you when you put words into my mouth.

Yeah I was wrong. Still doesn't change the fact that most of the top guilds were/are horde. probably trying to emulate Nihilum.

Yeah, that's a real strawman.

 

[water_wendi]

Yeah, that's a real strawman.

i just wanted to echo that during vanilla there was no question, at all, that Alliance had the best raiding guilds.

 

[Miletius]

Isn't Vodka Alliance and a top raiding guild still? I remember being on the Mannoroth server with them back in the day (I was horde)-- man they lasted a long time.

In Vanilla Paladins and Dwarf Priests made for the best raiding guilds. In BC I think it was questionable -- Space Goat racial gave a lower hit cap, while Horde had... WotF? Not sure, horde had something I think. Ranged pull for BE Paladins, yeah, horde had jack but I think the 1 percent hit wasn't enough to break anybody's guild.

Nowadays nobody has an advantage so I think people gravitate towards the side that is cooler to them, I guess.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Isn't Vodka Alliance and a top raiding guild still? I remember being on the Mannoroth server with them back in the day (I was horde)-- man they lasted a long time.

In Vanilla Paladins and Dwarf Priests made for the best raiding guilds. In BC I think it was questionable -- Space Goat racial gave a lower hit cap, while Horde had... WotF? Not sure, horde had something I think. Ranged pull for BE Paladins, yeah, horde had jack but I think the 1 percent hit wasn't enough to break anybody's guild.

Nowadays nobody has an advantage so I think people gravitate towards the side that is cooler to them, I guess.

I don't know, but the assertion that Nihilum was the best during Vanilla/early TBC before D&T broke up is kind of silly; they were definitely in the hunt, but hardly the definitive No.1, especially not in vanilla. They never really got to be on clearly on top until up around T6, by which point D&T had already broken up and they were competing with other sponsored guilds like SK Gaming, etc.

The first real serious raid guild was a guild called "Conquest." They were mostly known because they had the audacity to post videos/written accounts of boss encounters. Many WoW players aren't really familiar with the way it was in Everquest when guilds simply didn't explain boss encounters because they didn't want anyone else to know how to beat it.

 

[wonderdung]

Human is probably just behind Rocket Jump, Arcane Torrent and War Stomp.

Rocket Jump a PVP racial? I think I'd have a tough time deciding which is best among Human free trinket, Gnome escape artist, Tauren warstomp and Belf arcane torrent. All situational. WOTF is still pretty good as well unless you PVE at all.

I expect racials to be the next thing Blizzard removes in the name of balance. Or better yet I'd like to be able to mix and match them from a pool that is the same for each faction. But that's just a dream that will never happen.

i just wanted to echo that during vanilla there was no question, at all, that Alliance had the best raiding guilds.

There are racials and paladins and etc to consider, but I suspect this was mostly because Alliance initially had the highest populations. My server actually made a recruitment video for horde because of the imbalance on a lot of day 1 servers.

While there are a lot of horde the situation has hardly resolved itself. There are servers that are totally and completely dominated by one faction or the other. I really hope we don't keep arguing about which faction was "better" in classic, though, because it has no relevance to anything today.

 

[Mairu]

Rocket Jump a PVP racial? I think I'd have a tough time deciding which is best among Human free trinket, Gnome escape artist, Tauren warstomp and Belf arcane torrent. All situational. WOTF is still pretty good as well unless you PVE at all.

I expect racials to be the next thing Blizzard removes in the name of balance. Or better yet I'd like to be able to mix and match them from a pool that is the same for each faction. But that's just a dream that will never happen.

war stomp is awful wat

 

[speedpop]

Rocket Jump a PVP racial?

I can think of several dozen ways to implement it into various scenarios in BGs, and that's from simply jumping around on my alt Mage in Orgrimmar.

war stomp is awful wat

Saved my Shaman arse several times in Arathi. Don't know what crack you're smoking.

 

[Dresden]

Rocket jump is amazing. Great escape tool. Only thing more annoying than a resto shaman is a goblin resto shaman.

 

[FLEABttn]

Isn't Vodka Alliance and a top raiding guild still?

Semi-tangent. Their MT for a lot of TBC (Bharak) was someone I used to play with in vanilla a lot. He took a guild bank with him when he transfered to join Vodka, became their MT for TBC, first Illidan kill the Bulwark of Azzinoth drops, he gets it, gquits on the spot and sold his account for $1,600 20 minutes later. Those were the days~

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Yeah, that's a real strawman.

Seriously, like 75% of top PVE guilds are horde because of this.

75% = Most of them = Not all of them

Where is your brain? You even quoted me on that post. You are the first person on my ignore list.

 

[Angry Grimace]

75% = Most of them = Not all of them

Where is your brain? You even quoted me on that post. You are the first person on my ignore list.

What the hell is wrong with you? That's an extremely semantic argument which has no logical connection to your underlying point.

It's like basic conversation skills elude you and you're required by law to take everything completely literally. You claimed most raiding guilds were horde because they were imitating the best guild from vanilla/TBC Nihulum. Every point of that argument is and was wrong, and then in response to being told this logically, you get pissed off and overly agitated about the semantics (i.e. because I said, "not all guilds were horde" and you freaked about about the distinction between "most" and "all" even though your underlying point was clearly wrong and just made up). In any case, I can tell it wasn't worth arguing the point, because you're just making things up.

Can't say I'll miss your witty repartee. And don't think I'm fooled into thinking you aren't reading this: nobody who doesn't use ignore list regularly is capable of just not clicking the "show post" button anyways.

Valor Gear:

Now all I need is the Elder Wand.

 

[B-Dex]

Saw this today and had to post it:

 

[markot]

0/10 >.<

 

[Hexadecimalt]

*fucking terrible cgi bad pun image*

Why would you post something like that?

 

[Saren is Bad]

Saw this today and had to post it:

http://i.imgur.com/72EYp.jpg

People honestly think that is funny? Or clever? Or anything besides gooey shit?

 

[markot]

It doesnt even make sense... at all >_<

 

[Chris R]

Paladins and Dwarf Priests > shamans in vanilla.

Fear Ward trivialized a lot of mechanics for Alliance, where Horde tanks would have to stance dance.

Exactly this. Playing Horde in vanilla was hardcore mode. Sure it sucked not getting kills as fast as the alliance guilds, but when my guild finally killed Nef we felt so damn good. Cutman tank hoooooooooooo!

 

[GLopez12]

Rocket Jump a PVP racial? I think I'd have a tough time deciding which is best among Human free trinket, Gnome escape artist, Tauren warstomp and Belf arcane torrent. All situational. WOTF is still pretty good as well unless you PVE at all.

Yes. Rocket Jump is probably the best racial in the game. It has many, many uses for both offensive and defensive play.

Escape Artist is nice, but it's not as good as the other racials because there are so many roots and snares in PVP now.

WOTF is also pretty good, but it's just not as good as Rocket Jump, War Stomp, Arcane Torrent or Every Man for Himself.

I'd say it goes Rocket Jump > Arcane Torrent > War Stomp > Every Man for Himself > Will of the Forsaken > whatever.