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[Robin64]

I'd be curious to know at what level people play who modify their UI.

For example, I play as a Ret Paladin, which means I have the Holy Power "problem" of having to shift my eye. But it's such a tiny movement and can easily be done during an attack anyway. Moreover, I get glowing things appear around my character when special actions can be done.

I feel like this is enough because I never raid above LFR difficulty and the highest level of PvP I take part in is random battlegrounds. My style of play might not be quite optimised, I might be only doing 95% of my potential DPS, whatever, but for what I play it's fine.

 

[idlewild_]

I like raiding as a rogue (sometimes) but on challenging bosses it almost always ends up with the group wiping over and over again while the tanks and healers figure their shit out. So in MoP I'm switching to a tank full time, probably a monk.

You'll get to start being annoyed at dps standing in stupid stuff or not moving fast enough or not switching targets fast enough or not bursting down high priority targets fast enough, etc. etc. I think you'll find once you're on the other side that the dps are more or less just as incompetent in your mind

 

[Acidote]

This patch has been so depressing from dps shamans. As an elemental shaman, both my burst and dps have been butchered, razed to the ground. There's no way I'm playing this if level 90 is anything like what we are now.

 

[Enosh]

Looks like he's a tank, so being a little slower on your rotation doesn't really matter, especially at L75 and with 500% threat. Some of the best tanks I've ever played with have been clickers, as long as you can press a cooldown/taunt at the right time and move at the right time you're golden. Having your health bars all the way in the left corner as a tank is probably not a good idea though, but again, at L75 I'm not sure it matters.

that might have been true at 4.3 with block capped tanks where most of their survivability came from passive mitigation, but in 5.0 with an active mitigation system where you need to react fast to incoming attacks, i can't say I agree anymore

yes it's just lvl 75 which probably doesn't matter, but leveling is the best place to start learning key bindings since you start of with just a few abilities and gradually get more which you can then include in your rotation and keybind them while already being used to the previous abilities

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I'd be curious to know at what level people play who modify their UI.

For example, I play as a Ret Paladin, which means I have the Holy Power "problem" of having to shift my eye. But it's such a tiny movement and can easily be done during an attack anyway. Moreover, I get glowing things appear around my character when special actions can be done.

I feel like this is enough because I never raid above LFR difficulty and the highest level of PvP I take part in is random battlegrounds. My style of play might not be quite optimised, I might be only doing 95% of my potential DPS, whatever, but for what I play it's fine.

It's sort of something that evolves over time due to tastes. I have screenshots I can show from back in Wrath where I had a much clunkier UI than I've had later on, even when raiding HToC. Hell, I didn't have a target of target display for the longest time because I thought that as a tank the boss would almost always be on me, so there was no point having a redundant frame.

Spoiler

Do not make that mistake! Probably cost me a guild membership at the time due to an avoidable error involving target of target.

I'll probably rebuild my UI from the ground up here in the next couple weeks as I resub and prepare for Mists, so I'll post comparison screenshots later if I remember.

Still not really sure what I'm doing for Mists though character wise. I know I'm going to be playing, at least at the content patches (and for 2 months minimum at launch), but I'm not sure yet on what class I want to play and what role. Something I'll have to think about in the upcoming days. Maybe I'll be able to make a choice after fooling around with the new talents, which I haven't paid much attention to.

 

[Shadowhaxor]

This patch has been so depressing from dps shamans. As an elemental shaman, both my burst and dps have been butchered, razed to the ground. There's no way I'm playing this if level 90 is anything like what we are now.

Yep and it sucks. We finally got to a decent point only to be completely dropped on the DPS totem pole (Pun intended). There's no way i'm leveling my shammy over my mage or warrior who have jumped or have stayed at the same level as they were at the end of cata.

 

[Entropia]

This patch has been so depressing from dps shamans. As an elemental shaman, both my burst and dps have been butchered, razed to the ground. There's no way I'm playing this if level 90 is anything like what we are now.

Blizzard really screwed the pooch here.

I'm not sure if you are aware of Ascendance? This is what you get as Elemental: While in the form of a Flame Ascendant, Lava Burst has no cooldown and Chain Lightning is empowered to become Lava Beam.


No cooldown for Lava Burst, your Lava Surge can still proc... you WILL be a burst machine. It's actually kind of sad because Blizzard nerfed Lava Burst's base damage because they've balanced our DPS around this cooldown's usage. So "in theory" our DPS should be pretty good using this cooldown as necessary.

I'd also like to point out the synergy with this Warrior ability, Skull Banner. Throw down a war banner at your feet that increases the critical damage of party or raid members within 30 yards of the banner by 20%. Lasts 10 sec.

It increases your CRITICAL DAMAGE. Like a good Elemental Shaman does, keeping Flame Shock up on the target, having this banner down with Ascendance popped means your Lava Bursts are going to be critting constantly for an additional 20% damage, that is insane.

Yep and it sucks. We finally got to a decent point only to be completely dropped on the DPS totem pole (Pun intended). There's no way i'm leveling my shammy over my mage or warrior who have jumped or have stayed at the same level as they were at the end of cata.

I was tempted to level a Mage and main it for Mists as they're pretty much always on top, but 1) Our raid shouldn't bring in another cloth caster, and 2) I'm willing to stay with Shaman as I have over the past 7 years.

 

[idlewild_]

that might have been true at 4.3 with block capped tanks where most of their survivability came from passive mitigation, but in 5.0 with an active mitigation system where you need to react fast to incoming attacks, i can't say I agree anymore

yes it's just lvl 75 which probably doesn't matter, but leveling is the best place to start learning key bindings since you start of with just a few abilities and gradually get more which you can then include in your rotation and keybind them while already being used to the previous abilities

You can say the same thing about healers, good healers have to react quickly to incoming damage but I don't think you'll find many people (other than high level arena players, but they only have to heal 2-5 people) arguing that you should not use grid+clique/healbot.

Again, I'm not saying keybinds are not better than clicking, but the benefits are much more heavily skewed for dps than they are for healers or tanks.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I should finally get to start reading the Tide of War book today. Question, if I don't get it finished by the theramore event, will it spoil the book you think if I play it before finishing the book? Not really a fast reader.

 

[Jackben]

I'm thinking of creating a new toon and being a tank, really want to see a lot of group play and tired of waiting in endless ques for a tank. What's a good class/race to start with if I'm new to tanking? Any advice/tips?

 

[strafer]

I'm thinking of creating a new toon and being a tank, really want to see a lot of group play and tired of waiting in endless ques for a tank. What's a good class/race to start with if I'm new to tanking? Any advice/tips?

If you want more health, pick a Tauren.

You want to look cool in gear, pick Orc.

 

[Bisnic]

You can say the same thing about healers, good healers have to react quickly to incoming damage but I don't think you'll find many people (other than high level arena players, but they only have to heal 2-5 people) arguing that you should not use grid+clique/healbot.

Again, I'm not saying keybinds are not better than clicking, but the benefits are much more heavily skewed for dps than they are for healers or tanks.

I never bothered with healbot/grid+clique (and it always amuse me when a new patch comes and some healers REFUSE to heal without those when they dont work properly) What exactly do they do so special?

With the default UI, i just put everyone's health bars next to my character, change the size of the bars to something i like, add class colors and remaining health on them, and click each bars that isn't at 100% while pressing my heal buttons. Incoming heals and debuffs are also shown with the default UI. I healed a few LFR and normal raids that way and i had no problems doing as much healing, if not more, than the other healers. Which i assume some of them did use those addons.

So what am i missing without those 2 particular addons exactly?

 

[Garryk]

I should finally get to start reading the Tide of War book today. Question, if I don't get it finished by the theramore event, will it spoil the book you think if I play it before finishing the book? Not really a fast reader.

The Theramore event happens in the book. Golden said at one point in the book, Jaina is talking to some "soldiers" (your group). In the game you talk to Jaina and go off to do the scenario, in the book Jaina talks to you and goes off and does her own thing. So you are either spoiling the game or part of the book.

 

[idlewild_]

I never bothered with healbot/grid+clique (and it always amuse me when a new patch comes and some healers REFUSE to heal without those when they dont work properly) What exactly do they do so special?

With the default UI, i just put everyone's health bars next to my character, change the size of the bars to something i like, add class colors and remaining health on them, and click each bars that isn't at 100% while pressing my heal buttons. Incoming heals and debuffs are also shown with the default UI. I healed a few LFR and normal raids that way and i had no problems doing as much healing, if not more, than the other healers. Which i assume some of them did use those addons.

So what am i missing without those 2 particular addons exactly?

they don't do much different than what you are doing now, in fact the default UI is basically copying grid's functionality, though grid does have some more customization features. clique just allows you to cast an ability when you click on a unit frame, e.g. you can bind left click to heal, right click to flash heal, shift+left to dispel, etc. etc. I think a lot of people are just assume that the default UI still can't manage these things and/or are just more comfortable with their setup that uses these addons and don't want to go through the setup/learning process again.

 

[Bisnic]

they don't do much different than what you are doing now, in fact the default UI is basically copying grid's functionality now, though grid does have some more customization features. clique just allows you to cast an ability when you click on a unit frame, e.g. you can bind left click to heal, right click to flash heal, shift+left to dispel, etc. etc. I think a lot of people are just assume that the default UI still can't manage these things.

Yeah i guess... i wonder how many with those healing addons haven't bother to check the improvements of the default UI since then. Well i suppose once you're used to something, you don't want anything else.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

If you want more health, pick a Tauren.

You want to look cool in gear, pick Orc.

Hey hey hey.

Tauren warriors are awesome. (They're both good though. I have Tauren and Orc warriors and love them both.)

 

[Treemonkeys]

You'll get to start being annoyed at dps standing in stupid stuff or not moving fast enough or not switching targets fast enough or not bursting down high priority targets fast enough, etc. etc. I think you'll find once you're on the other side that the dps are more or less just as incompetent in your mind

Wasn't really talking about incompetence, just that tank/healer roles are typically more complicated and take more time for the group to figure out.

Does anyone use Open Raid and know it's proper etiquette? I get accepted for a raid an hour after posted start time, can't go, get lots of negative feedback. Kind of annoying.

 

[Treemonkeys]

I never bothered with healbot/grid+clique (and it always amuse me when a new patch comes and some healers REFUSE to heal without those when they dont work properly) What exactly do they do so special?

With the default UI, i just put everyone's health bars next to my character, change the size of the bars to something i like, add class colors and remaining health on them, and click each bars that isn't at 100% while pressing my heal buttons. Incoming heals and debuffs are also shown with the default UI. I healed a few LFR and normal raids that way and i had no problems doing as much healing, if not more, than the other healers. Which i assume some of them did use those addons.

So what am i missing without those 2 particular addons exactly?

They are just a crutch to some people, my g/f is one of those healers that will not heal without them.

 

[DJ Lushious]

Does anyone use Open Raid and know it's proper etiquette? I get accepted for a raid an hour after posted start time, can't go, get lots of negative feedback. Kind of annoying.

I use OpenRaid. Pretty much if you can't make the raid, then don't sign up. Or if you do sign up, but then can't make it, then you can remove your "coming" status. Etiquette pretty much follows these simple rules.

 

[Entropia]

Wasn't really talking about incompetence, just that tank/healer roles are typically more complicated and take more time for the group to figure out.

Does anyone use Open Raid and know it's proper etiquette? I get accepted for a raid an hour after posted start time, can't go, get lots of negative feedback. Kind of annoying.

As long as you're accepted and stated "I can definitely go" you should make sure that you are available during the raid.

 

[ampere]

Man, my rogue only needs heroic tier helm to finish out his DS gear. I really just wanted to leave him decked out from DS and retire him. The helm dropped last night but I lost the roll. I guess I have one more week to get lucky.

I like raiding as a rogue (sometimes) but on challenging bosses it almost always ends up with the group wiping over and over again while the tanks and healers figure their shit out. So in MoP I'm switching to a tank full time, probably a monk.

My rogue is only missing the heroic spine trinket to be full BiS, but I gave up on it since we get the strength trinket 50% of the time.

I'm also going Monk Brewmaster from rogue, have you tried it out on beta? Pretty fun

 

[Chris R]

So hit 78, just to find out Hyjal starts at 80

Why the sudden change from the previous expansions?

 

[Learn2read]

 

[Robin64]

So hit 78, just to find out Hyjal starts at 80

Why the sudden change from the previous expansions?

Less zones, easier to tune.

 

[strafer]

What is Vanilla? ;P

 

[Jackben]

What is Vanilla? ;P

Jesus Christ himself.

 

[Entropia]

So hit 78, just to find out Hyjal starts at 80

Why the sudden change from the previous expansions?

Less zones, easier to tune.

Also has to do with stat inflation from Wrath content to Cata content. A level 78 whose leveling and using gear from getting Wrath quests/dungeons would most likely get their ass kicked early on.

 

[Sciz]

This patch has been so depressing from dps shamans. As an elemental shaman, both my burst and dps have been butchered, razed to the ground. There's no way I'm playing this if level 90 is anything like what we are now.

The 87 ability and 90 talents are both straight dps increases, and substantial ones. As the saying goes, Don't Panic.

I'd also like to point out the synergy with this Warrior ability, Skull Banner. Throw down a war banner at your feet that increases the critical damage of party or raid members within 30 yards of the banner by 20%. Lasts 10 sec.

It increases your CRITICAL DAMAGE. Like a good Elemental Shaman does, keeping Flame Shock up on the target, having this banner down with Ascendance popped means your Lava Bursts are going to be critting constantly for an additional 20% damage, that is insane.

I haven't been able to find a post on it anywhere, is the extra crit damage % additive or multiplicative, i.e. ele gets 270% crits or 300%?

 

[Chris R]

Less zones, easier to tune.

Guessing that MoP will be the same then?

Kinda a letdown since I was rushing to 78 on my Shaman to try to have him ready for MoP but now that I have to go back to zones I don't like to level in I'm betting I won't make it.

 

[The Lamonster]

Guessing that MoP will be the same then?

Kinda a letdown since I was rushing to 78 on my Shaman to try to have him ready for MoP but now that I have to go back to zones I don't like to level in I'm betting I won't make it.

Dungeon Finder till your eyes bleed.

 

[sazzy]

I was wondering when this would be posted.

 

[Tarazet]

I'm thinking of creating a new toon and being a tank, really want to see a lot of group play and tired of waiting in endless ques for a tank. What's a good class/race to start with if I'm new to tanking? Any advice/tips?

I cut my teeth on an Undead Blood DK, then leveled a Belf Paladin, then switched my original character, a Troll Druid to be a tank. The Druid is by far the most fun and effective, and has the best get-out-of-shit-free buttons. The rotation is quite easy to get a hang of too.

Single target: FFF, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, Thrash, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, repeat. If you get a Mangle proc, use it immediately, then continue from there with the normal rotation.
Multiple target: Mangle, Swipe, Thrash, Swipe, repeat. If you get a Mangle proc, use it immediately then throw in a Lacerate to fill in the gap before continuing.

 

[DJ Lushious]

The rotation is quite easy to get a hang of too.

Single target: FFF, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, Thrash, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, repeat. If you get a Mangle proc, use it immediately, then continue from there with the normal rotation.

Replace all of those repeat thrashes with Faerie Fires. You only want to throw a thrash on when the debuff is about ready to fall off the enemy or your Mangle, Lacerate, and Faerie Fire are on CD. The reasoning behind this is that Faerie Fire hits harder than an application of Thrash.

 

[Chris R]

Dungeon Finder till your eyes bleed.

I'm finding that grinding quests I know is easier that queuing as a DPS now that I have 280% flight, but I do queue with my pally duo I'm setting up for RAF.

 

[mclem]

I'd be curious to know at what level people play who modify their UI.

For example, I play as a Ret Paladin, which means I have the Holy Power "problem" of having to shift my eye. But it's such a tiny movement and can easily be done during an attack anyway. Moreover, I get glowing things appear around my character when special actions can be done.

I feel like this is enough because I never raid above LFR difficulty and the highest level of PvP I take part in is random battlegrounds. My style of play might not be quite optimised, I might be only doing 95% of my potential DPS, whatever, but for what I play it's fine.

I've actually done the most modification than ever for this change. Before I was basically content with a HoPo addon putting my bars front-and-centre (plus the usuals of Grid, Omen, Recount, PallyPower scattered at appropriate locations around the screen but rarely actually referred to in combat). With the latest changes and the added complexity of the new rotation, I got WeakAuras and set to extensively customising my setup so I had all the important cooldowns visually available.

Speaking of which, I ought to expand my WeakAuras setup to notify me about Sacred Shield and Weakened Blows!

That said, it's still the default UI at the heart of things. And I do feel rather guilty as a tank not having my health bar somewhere directly in front of me, but I've never felt it to be a problem.

As for the actual level I play at: Persistent but mid-range raider. Can do heroics, nowhere near first kills on them. The sort of person the timed buffs were *for*!

I'm thinking of creating a new toon and being a tank, really want to see a lot of group play and tired of waiting in endless ques for a tank. What's a good class/race to start with if I'm new to tanking? Any advice/tips?

Dwarves have a fairly good tank cooldown; not brilliant, but another tool to add to the repertoire.

 

[Jackben]

I actually did want to try out an Alliance toon since I've never really made one before and want to try that side of the content. Will probably try Dwarf, thanks.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'd be curious to know at what level people play who modify their UI.

For example, I play as a Ret Paladin, which means I have the Holy Power "problem" of having to shift my eye. But it's such a tiny movement and can easily be done during an attack anyway. Moreover, I get glowing things appear around my character when special actions can be done.

I feel like this is enough because I never raid above LFR difficulty and the highest level of PvP I take part in is random battlegrounds. My style of play might not be quite optimised, I might be only doing 95% of my potential DPS, whatever, but for what I play it's fine.

I don't spend much time looking at my Holy Power - MSBT tells me if I cap, and the rotation is just building HP until you either cap or have no HP builders. Ret Paladin isn't GCD capped so it's not really a big deal.

 

[Safe Bet]

..it's just unfortunate that with Cata Blizzard made it impossible to live anywhere else but Org or SW.

*eyeroll*

Only noobs hearth anywhere else but Dalaran.

 

[Bisnic]

*eyeroll*

Only noobs hearth anywhere else but Dalaran.

Mages don't need to hearth there.

 

[idlewild_]

Mages don't need to hearth there.

only noobs play mages

 

[Bisnic]

only noobs play mages

Fine, no more portals for you. I'll put you in the official secret Mages Black List Of No Portal.

 

[Entropia]

The 87 ability and 90 talents are both straight dps increases, and substantial ones. As the saying goes, Don't Panic.


I haven't been able to find a post on it anywhere, is the extra crit damage % additive or multiplicative, i.e. ele gets 270% crits or 300%?

I'm not sure... from my understanding things like this are additive, not multiplicative. I've asked another theorycrafter about it.

Multi, except it's 259% & 290.8%

 

[The Lamonster]

Do you guys think there will be any major server issues (a la Diablo III) on day 2 (Sept. 26)?

Thinking about asking off work...

 

[Bisnic]

Do you guys think there will be any major server issues (a la Diablo III) on day 2 (Sept. 26)?

Thinking about asking off work...

I doubt it, past expansions had more stable launches, and there was more people back in Lich King and Cataclysm early days. They didnt have to go from 0 to 6 millions players in one day either.

 

[Entropia]

Good writeup about the changes to PvP gear; http://www.orcisharmyknife.com/2012/09/minipost-pvp-gear-now-better-for-pve.html

 

[The Lamonster]

I doubt it, past expansions had more stable launches, and there was more people back in Lich King and Cataclysm early days. They didnt have to go from 0 to 6 millions players in one day either.

That's what I figured but wanted to get a second opinion, thanks.

Good writeup about the changes to PvP gear; http://www.orcisharmyknife.com/2012/09/minipost-pvp-gear-now-better-for-pve.html

Blocked. Feel like pasting it?

 

[Entropia]

That's what I figured but wanted to get a second opinion, thanks.



Blocked. Feel like pasting it?

Patch 5.0.4 brought a ton of interesting changes, including a change to PVP gear that removed Resilience as a stat, introducing "PVP Resilience" and "PVP Power". If you're not into PVP, this probably seems like a rather unimportant change that won't affect you.

However, what many people don't realize is that when Blizzard changed the current tier of PVP gear, they also - for some reason - changed PVP gear so that they are perfectly acceptable options for PVE content as well!


"Wasted stats" = no more!
One of the two biggest strikes against using PVP gear in PVE has been one simple fact - normal PVE gear comes with two PVE secondary stats (such as Crit, Spirit, Hit, etc.) while PVP gear only had one PVE stat and Resilience, which was useless in PVE. Therefore it was almost always a severe handicap to use PVP gear and "lose" an entire secondary stat.

However! The PVP armor that you can currently buy for honor now comes with two secondary PVE stats, making this gear absolutely fine for PVE content! (They also have PVP Power and PVP Resilience, but these are irrelevant for this discussion.)


And the real kicker? The PVP gear is ilvl 390, which means its primary stats (Intellect/Strength/Agility) AND secondary stats will be higher than any 378 PVE piece (such as Firelands or Dragon Soul 5-man drops), AND higher than 384 PVE pieces (such as LFR Dragon Soul pieces).

If you're wearing pieces from Firelands, End Time, Well of Eternity or Hour of Twilight, the 390 PVP pieces WILL be better. It's not even worth delving into comparisons, it's not even close.

Things are a little fuzzier when it comes to 384 LFR pieces, specifically gem sockets and set bonuses. Generally, the PVP gear will have just as many sockets as the 378 pieces (or more), but some of the 384 LFR pieces will have an extra socket. However, don't be fooled by that alone - remember that having an extra socket but 30-40 less base Intellect (or other primary stat) is basically the same thing, except it'll cost you an extra gem just to equal out.


As for set bonuses? Critics will be quick to point out that using PVP gear means you'll lose out on the PVE tier 13 set bonuses. And they're not wrong. But don't just ignore the PVP set bonuses! You have to ask yourself - what is more valuable? Your 2/4-piece set bonus from using 384 LFR gear? Or higher base Intellect/Strength/Agility, higher secondary stats, and the PVP 4-piece bonus of +160 Intellect/Strength/Agility? Not to mention the varying utility bonuses that also come with a PVP 4-piece set. Granted, some of them are useless in PVE, but some are still okay, such as increased movement speed after Dispersion for Shadow Priests. And some are pretty good!

Need some hard facts? Okay. How about Holy Paladin? Let's compare a full 5-piece LFR set with the 5-piece PVP set. For this comparison, all sockets filled with +50 Brilliant Queen's Garnets and using Burning Shadowspirit meta. Enchants ignored because they would be identical.

Holy Paladin LFR (384) 5-piece
2898 Stamina
2247 Intellect (+1693 from gear, +554 from gems)
2315 secondary stats
Reduced mana costs after Avenging Wrath
+5% increased Holy Radiance healing

Holy Paladin PVP (390) 5-piece
3065 Stamina (+167 increase)
2427 Intellect (1863 from gear, 404 from gems, 160 from 4pc bonus) (+180 increase)
2548 secondary stats (+233 increase)
+160 Intellect (already added in)
+400 PVP Resilience
+10% increased Holy Shock damage and healing

Just think how many gems/enchants 180 extra intellect and 233 extra secondary stats are. And that Holy Shock heal bonus isn't garbage, either.



Persuading the haters
Now, I mentioned two major strikes against using PVP gear in PVE content, stats being the first. The second is the stigma. I guarantee many people will get a sour look on their face at the very NOTION of using PVP gear in PVE content. Granted, previously they had good reason. But now? When PVP gear sports two full secondary stats like any PVE piece? This attitude no longer makes sense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 390 PVP gear, and in fact, it's as good as - if not better - than anything short of regular 397 Dragon Soul drops.


As of 5.0.4, if you automatically dismiss PVP gear as being unsuitable for PVE content, you are a) out of touch, b) WRONG.

Now, this PVP situation isn't a miracle solution. The gear is useless for tanks, since PVP gear doesn't come with Block, Parry or Dodge. And the weapons/shields/off-hands still only have one secondary stat (and are ilvl 384), so they're still not worth using in PVE. (Generally. There are exceptions but this is beyond the scope of this post.)

But the armor is great. And while many people aren't intent on pre-raid gearing up for Dragon Soul this late in the expansion, it's a nice way to replace those 1-2 pieces you haven't been able to get LFR drops for, improve your Armory profile for upcoming Mists guild applications, or even just to kit out your offspec before the expansion hits.

Personally, Fabulor's Retribution set is garbage, so I've been collecting a Ret PVP set to have an easier time leveling once he hits Pandaria. And I picked up the Holy PVP ring to replace my 378 one, since I can't win the Ring of the Riven from LFR-Hagara to save my life.

Now, it does appear that Mists PVP gear will continue to have two secondary stats as well as PVP stats. Take for example, the Dreadful Gladiator's Ornamented Headcover, which has a familiar-looking 2pc bonus, and a 4pc bonus that would still be pretty nice in PVE. That being said, I'm not sure how they will match up against equivalent PVE pieces. Something to keep in mind in the future, in any case!

PS: I do NOT recommend trading in/farming JP to exchange for Honor Points to buy the 390 PVP gear, because you're better off spending those JP on the ACTUAL PVE purchasable pieces, which are ilvl 397, and therefore superior.

 

[The Lamonster]

Thanks! That's great news. I may finally invest some time into getting PvP gear.

 

[ampere]

Yeah because of the pvp gear change it's possible that some of the entry level pvp pieces at level 90 will be good pre-raid gear.

Personally I'll mainly do rep and heroics to gear up, but there could be a few pieces of pvp gear that are really well itemized for certain specs.

 

[Sciz]

I'm not sure... from my understanding things like this are additive, not multiplicative. I've asked another theorycrafter about it.

Multi, except it's 259% & 290.8%

Did he mention how the math on that works out? I keep throwing the numbers together, but the results aren't those.