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[Alex]

Maybe I'm crazy, but doesn't it just seem a little too fast for them to be preparing for an expansion? They've barely released any content for this expansion.

WoW expansions always go right into development as the previous one is released.

Content this expansion has been rather lousy, though, and the concept of it all in general has been as well. Despite it all being on a sameish timeline I do think that they may be eager just to get Cataclysm out of the picture. Remaking the old world was such a huge mistake in the end, it cost them way too much time and effort for content they would've just been better off sidestepping or simply cleaning up in spots.

It will be an interesting Blizzcon though, they have a few decent competitors looming lately and Cataclysm was a bit of a dud so maybe it will light a fire under them. We'll clearly get a new continent with a central theme again, thank god.

I'd really love to see a new content type though, and redone armor models. I doubt the latter will ever happen, I think they'll do facial and hair meshes over, but armor and it's flat textures needs that upgrade just as bad.

 

[Bisnic]

That expansion probably wont release until late 2012, so i dont see why some people worry about it.

Remaking Azeroth was NOT a mistake. The old 1-60 content had to be changed. It was shit and i'm glad they did something. Lvl 85 content probably suffered because of it, but it still had to be done.

 

[markot]

Remaking Azeroth the way they did was stupid though.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Yeah, I don't know how important it was to change the old world. For the sake of leveling new toons, sure, it was nice. But the whole leveling process is so ultra-fast now and a good chunk of the leveling experience is spent in the looking for dungeon finder. That, and any new people starting the game fresh aren't going to really care one way or the other. I think wow is at a point where it just needs to focus on end-game. Doesn't take long to get there and how often does anyone really go back and take in the old world once they've looked at it once or twice?

For myself, I would have really preferred just a whole new area like Northrend/Outland, where the majority of everybody's time is spent. I really don't like the spread out nature of all the cataclysm zones. In a weird way I feel stuck in vanilla. And I'm still pissed that Ironforge and a lot of the other major cities are ghost towns of their former self.

During the LK expansion, my home was ironforge with my hearthstone set to Dalaran. It was great. In Cata i've been forced to stormwind and I hate it. And blizzard's reasoning behind the removal of so many portals goes out the window by having a portal to ALL the new zones in SW, alone. I sit here and think, now why did they remove the portals again? I don't have any high-level horde toons, but I assume the feelings are similar from that side too.

 

[wonderdung]

Maybe I'm crazy, but doesn't it just seem a little too fast for them to be preparing for an expansion? They've barely released any content for this expansion.

Well they did say they were going to start releasing expansions more quickly in an investor call. This was in response to the lackluster response to Cataclysm relative to the other two expansions.

I'm really hoping they learned something from Cataclysm's launch but if what they learned was "wow we really need to release $40 expansions more often instead of providing actual content through patches" then I fear for the future.

 

[Dakota47]

This is sort of a rant. I have picked up WoW again and I have been playing quite a lot the last couple of days. I rolled a Gnome Priest, my first healer ever. Around level 20 I specced Holy, and decided to try and dungeon level my way up to 85. So far so good. Waiting times as a healer in the dungeon finder are mostly non-existent, so it really is a viable option. The thing is though, dungeons aren't hardly as exciting as they used to be. I remember when you had to approach each group of trash mobs with apprehension, cook up some kind of strategy with different classes CC'ing different mobs, in order to survive the encounter. Nowadays though tanks simply go non-stop, attacking multiple groups on their way to a boss. DPSsers who decide to take on mobs on their own aren't in any danger at all. And even a beginning healer like me can get to grips with his new role with relative ease (something that is helped quite a bit by the amazing VuhDo mod btw). There is no real challenge to speak of anymore. I don't mind that dungeons have become more accessible for casual players - that is actually a good thing - but they should still be difficult imho. This way players get the wrong idea about what the endgame content will be like. Or has Blizzard taken out the challenge out of that as well?

 

[Mr. Luchador]

The WoW you knew, isn't the WoW we have now. Its gradually been dumbed down over the years.

 

[Dakota47]

The WoW you knew, isn't the WoW we have now. Its gradually been dumbed down over the years.

I appreciate how Blizzard went all out to make the game more accessible. I just don't get why they took out the challenge as well. This way there is no sense of achievement at all.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I appreciate how Blizzard went all out to make the game more accessible. I just don't get why they took out the challenge as well. This way there is no sense of achievement at all.

I think, sadly, the majority of WoW players want easy mode, and they were unsubbing due to difficulty/feeling left out of content. It really is easy mode now, though.

 

[Alex]

Azeroth was indeed very dated and in need of some tune ups, but they went about it in a silly manner. I'm on a full population server and if I do a fly by and /who each of these zones I go over, do you know how many people I see scurrying about? Zero in every single zone. That's also the number of people in our guild that went back and leveled something new from start to finish. There weren't even very high numbers of people in them when 4.0.6 was fresh.

Personally I would have been cool with them doing something drastic with game content in order to put even higher level people back in these zones back on the ground again, in addition to the Cataclysm remake. It would have also been fine to simply retool the content and flow of it to make it more palatble and quick for newbies and perhaps just give legacy players that skip button they've been whining for.

I just don't think that redesigning the landscape and the majority of the content for the launch world of a seven year old MMO with no additional functionality was a very good idea and is ultimately what shot this expansion in the leg. If you were a capped player and just didn't want a new alt for one section of the game, and that's was probably damn near everybody, then what you got was a rather meek add-on pack for Wrath of the Lich King rather than a full blown expansion. Reforging Azeroth was a giant undertaking and even now they're struggling to catch up.

I'm about burnt for now, but I have a lot of faith in the next expansion though, lessons learned and looming threats will cause them to step it up. Blizzcon will be really interesting.

I appreciate how Blizzard went all out to make the game more accessible. I just don't get why they took out the challenge as well. This way there is no sense of achievement at all.

There was never any challenge in lowbie content, even at launch. Blizzard holds an odd philosophy to things where everything prior to cap is just about soaking in all of the content quickly and casually and then you're instantly propelled against a gigantic brick wall. End game is certainly laddered infinitely better than back in the day, though.

Still, I wish there was a heroic leveling system or some such, I made a post about this before, but it would be a really marvelous thing for us more inclined players.

 

[Dakota47]

There was never any challenge in lowbie content, even at launch. Blizzard holds an odd philosophy to things where everything prior to cap is just about soaking in all of the content quickly and casually and then you're instantly propelled against a gigantic brick wall. End game is certainly laddered infinitely better than back in the day, though.

I disagree. Dungeons in vanilla and TBC were quite the challenge. Most of them took at least an hour to complete, if not more. Nowadays it takes about ten minutes to do SM:Library.

 

[Alex]

A lot of them still take awhile just because they're such gigantic, convoluted affairs. It's part of the reason why short, winged experiences like Scarlet Monastery caught on and paved the way for the future.

I don't agree that the leveling dungeons were ever particularly challenging, but I would concur that they were better balanced and at least less fodder-ish than they are today. Blizzard has a tendency to turn old content into simple mow-down experiences when a new expansion comes out.

Like today, where the Cataclysm leveling dungeons are reasonably balanced for players in their range, but when the next expansion comes I'm sure some swing of the pendulum will take care of that, much like BC did it to classic's and LK did it to BC's and Cata did it to LK's.

I've always, since launch, railed on WoW for pre-end game difficulty though. Leveling is too easy and the total lack of tension and almost discouraged grouping is what turns alts into absolute trudges of agony to me.

Their combat engine and dungeon designs are always so great at cap, it's a shame they have to cater to the worst possible players to such an extreme for everything prior.

 

[Bisnic]

This is sort of a rant. I have picked up WoW again and I have been playing quite a lot the last couple of days. I rolled a Gnome Priest, my first healer ever. Around level 20 I specced Holy, and decided to try and dungeon level my way up to 85. So far so good. Waiting times as a healer in the dungeon finder are mostly non-existent, so it really is a viable option. The thing is though, dungeons aren't hardly as exciting as they used to be. I remember when you had to approach each group of trash mobs with apprehension, cook up some kind of strategy with different classes CC'ing different mobs, in order to survive the encounter. Nowadays though tanks simply go non-stop, attacking multiple groups on their way to a boss. DPSsers who decide to take on mobs on their own aren't in any danger at all. And even a beginning healer like me can get to grips with his new role with relative ease (something that is helped quite a bit by the amazing VuhDo mod btw). There is no real challenge to speak of anymore. I don't mind that dungeons have become more accessible for casual players - that is actually a good thing - but they should still be difficult imho. This way players get the wrong idea about what the endgame content will be like. Or has Blizzard taken out the challenge out of that as well?

If you want 5 mans that are actually a challenge and bosses that require some strategy, you'll have to wait for the lvl 80+ ones. Especially the troll heroics with random people.

But yeah, they should make all of them at least somewhat difficult. Having to wait for high lvls to see that is kind of stupid.

 

[devildog820]

Heroics are also bad judges of your dps, especially depending on your class. I can probably put out 20k in heroics and 23-25k in raids.

Right, but my DPS in those same heroics went from 4k to 13k.

 

[Dakota47]

If you want 5 mans that are actually a challenge and bosses that require some strategy, you'll have to wait for the lvl 80+ ones. Especially the troll heroics with random people.

But yeah, they should make all of them at least somewhat difficult. Having to wait for high lvls to see that is kind of stupid.

Good to know. Regretfully I still have about 45 levels to go until 80. On the other hand, leveling is quicker than it ever was, especially in dungeons it seems. Without quests it takes about three dungeons per level, with quests even less.

 

[Bisnic]

Good to know. Regretfully I still have about 45 levels to go until 80. On the other hand, leveling is quicker than it ever was, especially in dungeons it seems. Without quests it takes about three dungeons per level, with quests even less.

It will slow down a little once you reach 60, and even more once you reach 70. 70-80 can be painful for some, since many of us saw Northrend stuff plenty of times in the last 3 years.

 

[Mairu]

60-70 is the worst since the entire expansion is closer to the old ways of wow than the new ways and nothing has been redesigned as far as the quests or anything

god i hate outlands

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Good to know. Regretfully I still have about 45 levels to go until 80. On the other hand, leveling is quicker than it ever was, especially in dungeons it seems. Without quests it takes about three dungeons per level, with quests even less.

Eh, 1-60 i was doing 15-30 minutes per level questing. I'm gonna time it and see for 32-33 just now.

 

[devildog820]

Good to know. Regretfully I still have about 45 levels to go until 80. On the other hand, leveling is quicker than it ever was, especially in dungeons it seems. Without quests it takes about three dungeons per level, with quests even less.

Yeah, the Zandalari stuff can still cause wipes if you don't have appropriate CC and don't know exactly where to stand. Hell, I see PUGs wipe all the time in the Stonecore (heroic) at Ozruk because of various reasons.

My take on the redesigned content was that it was a great thing for new players. Granted, there are more older players than new, but that's not a sustainable business model. When I was leveling my first character, I saw all the comments from Wowhead for older versions and was amazed. It would have taken me much longer to level to 85 and I probably would've gotten bored before then. Mainly because I knew there were several expansions so why would I want to spend the time on Vanilla? It felt like I was missing so much. I don't have the nostalgic attachment to those zones and I really enjoyed my leveling experience once I got the hang of it.

Burning Crusade, though, was more painful than Northrend. The BC stuff was a blast of cold water after the Vanilla stuff. I power leveled through that area. For whatever reason, I just didn't like it, even the dungeons, that much.

 

[idlewild_]

60-70 is the worst since the entire expansion is closer to the old ways of wow than the new ways and nothing has been redesigned as far as the quests or anything

god i hate outlands

at least 60-68 is super fast. 68-80 in Northrend is a complete nightmare.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Took me 12 minutes to go from 32 to 33 questing.

I'm in heirlooms tho.

If it took you 3 dungeons and some questing to get to 35, that's horrible :|

 

[Dunlop]

On the other hand, leveling is quicker than it ever was, especially in dungeons it seems.

trying to keep my interest in WOW up (I don't play at all outside of raids anymore), I tried to level a Shaman.

With BoA gear and guild perks, I hit level 21 while the mobs for my quests were still level 11 (so no xp). It actually slowed me down.

....Now I'm back to just raiding again

 

[C.Dark.DN]

trying to keep my interest in WOW up (I don't play at all outside of raids anymore), I tried to level a Shaman.

With BoA gear and guild perks, I hit level 21 while the mobs for my quests were still level 11 (so no xp). It actually slowed me down.

....Now I'm back to just raiding again

you're not forced to finish the zone...

and you don't have to discover flight paths anymore

 

[Bisnic]

trying to keep my interest in WOW up (I don't play at all outside of raids anymore), I tried to level a Shaman.

With BoA gear and guild perks, I hit level 21 while the mobs for my quests were still level 11 (so no xp). It actually slowed me down.

....Now I'm back to just raiding again

So why don't you just change to a zone made for your lvl instead of staying in one where you don't get XP at all from kills? I don't understand you.

 

[devildog820]

and you don't have to discover flight paths anymore

Yeah I thought that too. In Northrend that was true, but in the two main continents, I did still have to discover each flight master.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Need to worry less about mob xp and more about yellow quest xp. If you're doing green or grey quests, the same amount of effort could be put into yellow quests that yield double or triple the experience.

Level 33-34 for me right now is about 8 yellow quests. Probably 20 green.

Yeah I thought that too. In Northrend that was true, but in the two main continents, I did still have to discover each flight master.

not for me right now. they open up as you level.

 

[Dakota47]

Took me 12 minutes to go from 32 to 33 questing.

I'm in heirlooms tho.

If it took you 3 dungeons and some questing to get to 35, that's horrible :|

It's not like I am in a hurry, it was just an observation. Plus I find questing really too boring these days. At least dungeons offer non-stop action with next to no traveling. I basically never have to leave Stormwind's main square.

not for me right now. they open up as you level.

Confirmed. It seems level dependent though when a new flight path appears.

 

[devildog820]

Confirmed. It seems level dependent though when a new flight path appears.

That makes sense, I just hit 79 and the green exclamation points no longer appear.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

It's not like I am in a hurry, it was just an observation. Plus I find questing really too boring these days. At least dungeons offer non-stop action with next to no traveling. I basically never have to leave Stormwind's main square.



Confirmed. It seems level dependent though when a new flight path appears.

I find dungeon leveling 1-60 boring. Between the map telling you where to go, the quest tracker saying what you need to get, the shiny things on the ground, the red name plates on mobs you need to kill, and leveling in 10-25 minutes per level I find quest leveling 1-60 to be non stop action.

Old world dungeons, which I've done a million times, is slow leveling and some groups go slow. Queue times can be slow.

60-85 questing I hate.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I got a wild hair to level up Inscription on an alt. Real easy after leveling up Herb, which is easy.

As of right now I have to do northrend research, minor research, and book of glyph mastery to learn all glyphs? I should probably wait until they revamp it, but is there a decent way to farm the books?

Excluding darkmoon cards, glyphs, and fortune cards, is there any decent way to make money with it right now?

 

[SUPARSTARX]

lol

First PUG raid since I renewed. Haven't played for months.

Same crap! I guess people forgot we used to clear this in greens, blues, and level 80 epics.

 

[Bisnic]

First rule of WoW : Dont pug raids if you want to have fun.

 

[Alex]

I've never pugged a raid, myself, I think I'd lose my mind. The player base is such utter miasma.

I love the horror stories though, it sounds like they could have a nerfed down raid where the primary objective is simply to walk down a hall and loot a chest and people would still want you in full Firelands gear to be invited.

 

[TheYanger]

lol

First PUG raid since I renewed. Haven't played for months.

Same crap! I guess people forgot we used to clear this in greens, blues, and level 80 epics.

Remember, THOSE people never did it in appropriate gear, because those people are fucking awful at wow. Pugs are aids, and these are the same kinds of people that can't do random heroics without 15% buffs and T11 epics and shit (Whereas good players remember doing them before they all got nerfed in quest greens).

 

[ch0mp]

Funny thing is in BH it really doesn't matter how well you're geared. We went in last night with a 20 man group and killed occu'thar with 30 seconds on the enrage.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Funny thing is in BH it really doesn't matter how well you're geared. We went in last night with a 20 man group and killed occu'thar with 30 seconds on the enrage.

In weaker gear it's a DPS race. The first or second week of Cataclysm I definitely wiped multiple times on Argaloth due to weak DPS. I had to have some ruthless gear checks (not fun for either party) on people for a couple weeks there at least. Tank/Healer gear was mostly a non-issue. With gear inflation from all the T11 gear people should at least be in now, it's a non-issue.

 

[Alucrid]

Well a lot of the times stuff dies so fast that if you play a class that benefits from any sort of ramp up time at all, your DPS is going to be lower than it could be. As a quick example, if you're a class that has dots, the dot won't be able to tick its full duration in a heroic dungeon as it might in a raid. That's lost DPS when the mob dies before the dot runs out - in some cases it's probably better not to apply dots/debuffs at all. Also of note is that raids will almost always have more buffs that benefit your spec that you would be missing in a heroic. 20% melee haste (or similar) is pretty significant if you have it in one and don't have it in the other.

And in regards to selling that weapons - just congrats. Older servers generally do better with players who have been around and stockpiled gold, combined with the fact that you had no competition. If you were the only person on the server to sell that specific weapon in a given week, then whoever bought it may have really wanted it and didn't want to wait possibly another week for a better price. I know I bought two Soul Blades before I stopped playing for 21-22k each and that was pretty reasonable considering I had 70-80k gold at the time. They were BiS besides one of the random drops off Heroic Al'Akir though, so it was worth it. Some stuff I definitely wouldn't pay for though.

Ugh, I'm kind of tempted to get back into the game just to play the economy part of it, and I may do so to scratch that itch before Diablo comes out. EVE definitely has a more complex economy than WoW, but I don't like it quite as much, especially when I already know the inner workings of WoW's economy.

Yeah, that playing the AH is too much work for me. I might try it once I get my alt with JC to 85 though. I'm just really happy that I don't have any more financial troubles in WoW lol.

As fir PuG raids, yeah. I always feel like half the group is competent and can easily get the strat down, while the other half is dumbshits. Thankfully I just go on guild runs for the most part. I didn't go on this one 25 PuG since I'm doing some FL content with another group of people and the leader said to keep BH free since we were gonna clear that real fast. Well the T12 hunter gloves dropped and ruthless hunter bracers iirc. I was sad...got 3/5 ruthless now though. Also, Hunter + DK is the worst arena team ever. Trying to get over a Pally/DK team is damn near impossible. I really want to get rid of these stupid ZA shoulders / head piece. Look terrible.

 

[Saren is Bad]

I appreciate how Blizzard went all out to make the game more accessible. I just don't get why they took out the challenge as well. This way there is no sense of achievement at all.

The problem deep down is that most players suck at the game. Like, suck horribly.

 

[Alucrid]

The problem deep down is that most players suck at the game. Like, suck horribly.

I always bring this up, but I liked when I had full tier 2 because it meant that I didn't suck ass.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Remember, THOSE people never did it in appropriate gear, because those people are fucking awful at wow. Pugs are aids, and these are the same kinds of people that can't do random heroics without 15% buffs and T11 epics and shit (Whereas good players remember doing them before they all got nerfed in quest greens).

Many BH pugs can consist of people from the top guilds on the server along with scrubs.

In this scenario, the raid leader is 6/7 Normal firelands. 370 equipped tank. Since he has Obsidian Cleaver, Scales of Life, and Shard of Torment I'd say one of the main tanks.

He's just an asshole.

NO ONE was clearing Occu'thar in a full party with Quest greens/heroic blues. It didn't exist. Not saying it isn't possible.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

The problem deep down is that most players suck at the game. Like, suck horribly.

I mean, you can train people who have potential and are simply inexperienced with the game and you'll see huge improvements in DPS/Healing Output/Raid Awareness/Whatever Else, but that takes time, and the person has to want to improve their play as well.

To bring up a related point, I really would like to see Heroic or "Challenge" quests that really require a good deal of individual skill to complete. Paired with achievements this type of thing could act as a sort of certificate of gameplay ability which would ultimately be a better measure than the raid achievements we have now. We all know that unless you're in a really top-tier guild, every 25-man is dragging along at least 3-4 subpar players, but they might remain for social reasons and still get all the achievements that the raid as a whole earns. Whereas I might be a more skilled player than someone who has earned raid achievements I don't have, that doesn't mean I am not capable of earning them given a raid of like-minded and equally skilled individuals. Finding that right group of people is the difficult part.

There's a lot of social game in raid dynamics in addition to the actual gameplay which is more or less relatively simplistic. Coordination between 10 or 25 people is the difficult part - avoiding/dealing with chain reactions of errors in play.

I'll freely admit I'm not the best at the social game and that's at least part of the reason why I would like to see a system that is more qualitative in regards to skill (as it would make my life easier finding and staying with a guild.)

I forget if there was anything else I really wanted to say though I do agree - more people are bad or average at WoW than good, but that's just how the Bell Curve works.

 

[zugzug]

I appreciate how Blizzard went all out to make the game more accessible. I just don't get why they took out the challenge as well. This way there is no sense of achievement at all.

I luved the first week of Cata where one mob in Tol Barad Pen, would force me to eat/drink aftewards 2 mobs I had to be good, 3 I had to run to reset.

Blizzard just give me a hardmode server where i get that feeling just from everyday questing, and in 5mans hardmode server ftw.

 

[Alucrid]

I mean, you can train people who have potential and are simply inexperienced with the game and you'll see huge improvements in DPS/Healing Output/Raid Awareness/Whatever Else, but that takes time, and the person has to want to improve their play as well.

To bring up a related point, I really would like to see Heroic or "Challenge" quests that really require a good deal of individual skill to complete. Paired with achievements this type of thing could act as a sort of certificate of gameplay ability which would ultimately be a better measure than the raid achievements we have now. We all know that unless you're in a really top-tier guild, every 25-man is dragging along at least 3-4 subpar players, but they might remain for social reasons and still get all the achievements that the raid as a whole earns. Whereas I might be a more skilled player than someone who has earned raid achievements I don't have, that doesn't mean I am not capable of earning them given a raid of like-minded and equally skilled individuals. Finding that right group of people is the difficult part.

There's a lot of social game in raid dynamics in addition to the actual gameplay which is more or less relatively simplistic. Coordination between 10 or 25 people is the difficult part - avoiding/dealing with chain reactions of errors in play.

I'll freely admit I'm not the best at the social game and that's at least part of the reason why I would like to see a system that is more qualitative in regards to skill (as it would make my life easier finding and staying with a guild.)

I forget if there was anything else I really wanted to say though I do agree - more people are bad or average at WoW than good, but that's just how the Bell Curve works.

Bring back the hunter staff quest!

 

[water_wendi]

I appreciate how Blizzard went all out to make the game more accessible. I just don't get why they took out the challenge as well. This way there is no sense of achievement at all.

The problem you are running into has to do with heirlooms. When people are decked out in gear thats way better than what dungeons offer for the same level, the lower level dungeons are a cake walk. If you want to see real fun (sarcasm here) try Battlegrounds.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Oh, I guess I wasn't paying too much attention when I was listening to the bits of it live via the DiabloCast, but WoW lost another 300k subscribers over the past quarter (in addition the the 600k earlier in the year.)

They did say patch 4.3 should be coming this year and will be the largest content release since the base Cataclysm expansion itself, providing both dungeon and raid content that they hope will keep current players interested and interest lapsed players. http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2400-WoW-Lost-300k-Subscribers-Patch-4.3-this-year-Blizzcon-2011-Tickets-Blue-Posts

Definitely think they realized that they dropped the ball massively and have lost a lot of momentum. Losing 8% or so of your base in 6 months is huge. To be honest, the content provided in 4.1 and 4.2 should have been in the same patch which should have released 1-3 months earlier than it did. I certainly hope that they get their shit together and at least have something on the PTR by October. If extensive and well-designed raid content isn't coming, I have no reason to resub again being only slightly tempted by lapsing addictive hooks at the moment. Fantastic content would get me excited, but the team seems to have lost a bit of the old magic. Cataclysm made strides forward in some areas, but lost ground in many others.

 

[burgerdog]

^
If you're hoping that they put the PTR up in October then expect the patch to hit on December 27th(last Tuesday of the year, and still 2011!) 4.3 PTR needs to go live any day now in order for them to deliver the patch in Oct-Nov.

 

[TheYanger]

Many BH pugs can consist of people from the top guilds on the server along with scrubs.

In this scenario, the raid leader is 6/7 Normal firelands. 370 equipped tank. Since he has Obsidian Cleaver, Scales of Life, and Shard of Torment I'd say one of the main tanks.

He's just an asshole.

NO ONE was clearing Occu'thar in a full party with Quest greens/heroic blues. It didn't exist. Not saying it isn't possible.

Of course they didn't, but the kind of people in that screenshot are ABSOLUTELY the kind of people that couldn't even do like heroic SFK or something without getting absolutely carried with full 346s until it got nerfed. Gear is absolutely a valuable metric for something like firelands or something, but for T11 and BH it just tells me that the person acting like an ass needs to feel superior,c ause I almost guarantee I could find tons of random people in greens that would shame them at their class.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

If I wanted to give a better estimate, I'd say PTR up in 3-6 weeks with them shooting for a release in November (maybe the last week in October?). Probably paired with a decently sized 4.3.x of bug fixes, balance changes, and maybe a smidgen of extra content before the year is out. Also expecting gating of some sort for at least some of the patch content.

October for PTR being up was my "Are you fucking kidding me, surely you must have something to show by now?!" date. Even with my change in estimates, it's still likely that a PTR will be up for at least some amount of time in October.

I'd also wager that depending on what we get in 4.3, we get some sort of 4.4 around March or April with a new expansion relatively soon. If 4.3 is large, and 4.4 is small, this is more likely to happen than if 4.4 is large as well. Given the current state of the narrative and the proposed old god/War of the Ancients raids, I doubt that we'll be facing Deathwing in 4.3, so a massive "filler" 4.3 and at least somewhat large 4.4 seems likelier. Given that case, the content could be stretched a little longer, especially with a supplementary one-off raid, and we would see a new expansion Q3 or Q4, rather than what I estimate is looking to be a solid late Q2 or Q3 2012 release.

Either way, Cataclysm is shaping up to be the worst overall expansion so far unless Blizzard shapes up in terms of actual content delivered, and speed of delivery.

The optimum lifecycle of an average patch should be between 4-6 months which is just enough time IMO for progress to be just about finished for a middle-high end guild. No shame in being a heroic boss or two shy of completing the tier. The best guilds should have either completed the content or be working on the final boss at this time, and worse guilds should have at least finished normal modes (if the normal modes aren't actually that hard), and be maybe halfway through progression on hard modes.

 

[Negator]

Tanked a heroic for the first time with my alt paladin, get a Hyacinth Macaw in my Exotic Treasures.

Sold it for 12K, LOL

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Of course they didn't, but the kind of people in that screenshot are ABSOLUTELY the kind of people that couldn't even do like heroic SFK or something without getting absolutely carried with full 346s until it got nerfed. Gear is absolutely a valuable metric for something like firelands or something, but for T11 and BH it just tells me that the person acting like an ass needs to feel superior, cause I almost guarantee I could find tons of random people in greens that would shame them at their class.

This is so true. I hate having people that suck and don't care that they suck in raids, but I hate having cocky/arrogant douche bags in raids, even more. It totally ruins the enjoyment factor. That aside, raid pugs seem to go really well on my server. I don't know if it's because I'm on an older server or what.

Tanked a heroic for the first time with my alt paladin, get a Hyacinth Macaw in my Exotic Treasures.

Sold it for 12K, LOL

Oh man don't even get me started on the Exotic Treasures reward bag. Nothing like giving all the players who were already getting instant queues even more stuff. I know it's an attempt to make more people tank and heal, but the queue times on my server are hardly any better. If the bags gave gold, profession mats, or anything else (even a unique companion/mount reward specific to the exotic treasures bag), I'd be okay with it. But the fact that players are getting really, really hard to get mounts and companions is absolutely retarded in my opinion. Nothing like giving away stuff that takes other classes months to years to get, who were already the ones having to wait through 30-45 minute queue times. Genius...