Anyone know if this boss's weapon model actually drop somewhere? It looks pretty cool.
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=26532#.
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=26532#.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
World of Warcraft |OT3|
- Thread starter charlequin
- Start date
dave is ok
aztek is ok
You're silly.TheYanger said:
And even though the rate might be the same now, it wasn't for 2+ months after 4.2, so yes a 3/7 25 man guild will have more staves than a 7/7 heroic 10 man. As ridiculous as you think it is that a 10 man gets to create a legendary, the real legendary inflation problem comes from 25 man and that is why the Soul Essence drop rate was nerfed.
Bisnic said:
I don't recall ever seeing that, looks neat.
dave is ok said:
It was always the same rate there actually, refer to my post before. And NOW is where it's even worse than before, so saying it like it's a problem that has been fixed is ridiculous. The only values that were changed were 10n and 25h as a net from what already existed, one up the other down, by almost 50%.
People are way too entitled, legendaries SHOULD BE FUCKING RARE.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It kind of reminds me of the radiator on a stick that you could get for PvP at L. 70Bisnic said:
dave is ok
aztek is ok
You say they should be rare but you also say that one raid should have four of them.TheYanger said:
dave is ok said:
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying one NEEDS to have four of them to be equivilent to what the other raid is getting. This is where the idea that 10 mans need them is flawed, because if 10 mans get ONE, 25 mans need 3.6x as many to be equivalent on raid dps impact. That's retarded. Hence, my rant about why 10 mans fuck things up. If 10 mans didn't get legendaries, 25 man could get 1 MAYBE 2 and it would be a-ok like it used to be.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
By that logic, 25 mans should need 5 tanks again. The game's dwindling population can't support that.TheYanger said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You're wasting your time.dave is ok said:
Edit: let's just not go there.
I concede on my previous post, but how do you figure 3.6xTheYanger said:
DPS composition in normal and heroic can vary from 5-7 in 10 man and 15-20 in 25.
1 per 5-7: 20% 16% 14%
3 per 15-20: .20%; 18%; 17%; 16%; 15%; 15%
3.6 per 15-20: 24%; 23%; 21%; 20%; 19%; 18%
4 starts at 26% and ends at 20%.
3.6 through 4 is too much on a 25 man DPS impact perspective.
On the flip side, 2 on 10 spikes up to 40%-%28.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm very interested in how it works...I always thought (but will concede it's WAY too ambitious) that it would be really cool if they could somehow "update" the old raids so that you could run them, and just affix random stat loot to the bosses (which I bet we'll be seeing here). The problem of course is the type of manpower it would take to somehow make the numbers on old raids work (maybe just scale your stats down to the raid level and adjust it for your gear?).ch0mp said:
The problem with a tank legendary is that tanks don't have uniform equipment, of course. Which of course would mean you'd just stack whatever class got the legendary.Mairu said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The problem with Yanger's theory, of course, is that it's predicated on 10m and 25m raids being of uniform difficulty, which of course, Yanger has gone on record, at length, claiming they aren't.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
a.) Most heroic 10 man fights are meant to be two healedTheYanger said:
b.) DPS makes up 50% of the raid for 10 man (60% when you 2 heal), for 25 man it makes up 72% of the raid so if you want 1/5th of your dps having one it is going to be skewed.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Those Looking for Raid comments are interesting. And that it's 25-man only? Really curious to see how it plays out. May have to resub just to get on the 4.3 PTR.
And Rogue Legendary? Really?
I mean, I guess we haven't had a dagger yet, but Rogues have been able to use a lot of Legendaries already. Thunderfury (though ideally given to a main tank), Warblades, and Thori'dal (probably going to be given to Hunters, but infamously the world first was given to a Rogue).
Daggers are so limited in that only Rogues can use them, unless it ends up being a worthwhile stat stick for Hunters as well (if they can even use it.)
One thing is that since raids usually only take 1 Rogue at max in 10s and probably 3 at max in 25s, there won't be much competition for it.
There still should really be a tanking Legendary, whether they have to make it a non-weapon (cloak or trinket or something) or if we end up with a mace/polearm for Druids/DKs one tier and a shield/sword for Paladins/Warriors the next.
I don't think they would dilute the lore of a Legendary like how Quel'Delar works.
And Rogue Legendary? Really?
I mean, I guess we haven't had a dagger yet, but Rogues have been able to use a lot of Legendaries already. Thunderfury (though ideally given to a main tank), Warblades, and Thori'dal (probably going to be given to Hunters, but infamously the world first was given to a Rogue).
Daggers are so limited in that only Rogues can use them, unless it ends up being a worthwhile stat stick for Hunters as well (if they can even use it.)
One thing is that since raids usually only take 1 Rogue at max in 10s and probably 3 at max in 25s, there won't be much competition for it.
There still should really be a tanking Legendary, whether they have to make it a non-weapon (cloak or trinket or something) or if we end up with a mace/polearm for Druids/DKs one tier and a shield/sword for Paladins/Warriors the next.
I don't think they would dilute the lore of a Legendary like how Quel'Delar works.
Alex
Member
Easy mode through the dungeon finder sounds like a good idea. If they want people to progress past that though they may want to consider to continue breaking down the server walls and take Real ID restrictions off of things, though. Just let people form raid groups, rated bg groups, etc cross realm, of course that'd cut into their bottom line so I doubt it'd happen.
Either way, this still doesn't fix a lot of things. Content like that, especially when made easier and easier, is just so quick to be consumed. They need new types of content and more things like transmogging in the next expansion.
As for the story they're talking about, personally I cannot think of any story or context in any narrative I find less interesting than their dragon flight fare. It is totally not for me.
To be honest, I don't care for most of their big lore pieces, from titans to old gods, when stuff gets that supernatural and easy to maniupulate in terms of writing I just tune out but if I never see another primary colored dragon again it'll be too soon.
I'd like to say that maybe they just need to go back to character stories and keeping things at least pseudo grounded, but StarCraft II didn't exactly thrill me either. Still more interesting than the absurd amount of almighty powers and universe shaping in World of Warcraft to me, though.
Either way, this still doesn't fix a lot of things. Content like that, especially when made easier and easier, is just so quick to be consumed. They need new types of content and more things like transmogging in the next expansion.
As for the story they're talking about, personally I cannot think of any story or context in any narrative I find less interesting than their dragon flight fare. It is totally not for me.
To be honest, I don't care for most of their big lore pieces, from titans to old gods, when stuff gets that supernatural and easy to maniupulate in terms of writing I just tune out but if I never see another primary colored dragon again it'll be too soon.
I'd like to say that maybe they just need to go back to character stories and keeping things at least pseudo grounded, but StarCraft II didn't exactly thrill me either. Still more interesting than the absurd amount of almighty powers and universe shaping in World of Warcraft to me, though.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Alex said:
I enjoy the Burning Legion stuff. Dragonflights are okay, but we've had a lot major stuff with them going on recently. Not a huge fan of the Titan stuff lore-wise, even if I really did like Ulduar. Old Gods are pretty interesting though.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The story in WoW officially makes no sense, not that any of it happens on screen anyways. You know, like when you logged in to 4.2 and Nozdormu was just standing around after being MIA for the entire game.Alex said:
That was assuredly not the world first, but it was hilarious anyways. They need new Quel'delar too. Selling that thing was a hoot and at current prices would fetch a good 30,000 gold.CarbonatedFalcon said:
Fantasy Final
Member
If they use a lockout, that's gonna be a pain in the ass pugging a dps in trade.DeathNote said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I can't wait for them to put the overpowered Warcraft Lore Jesus into the game.
Alex
Member
It seems after me and a friend quit towards the start of Firelands our guild went on to accomplish absolutely nothing, yikes. They're just clearing normal modes every week. On some level, I feel bad, on another I knew we were carrying those knuckleheads.
I can't imagine how much easier things would have been if we hadn't had to deal with the ~3-4 screw ups who had to be babysat every step of the way, no matter how much you tried to teach them it was just in one ear and out the other. Especially people like our Hunter and Mage.
But even if we booted them, there would have been no one to recruit anyway, certainly no one any better. Even on our giant server the available prospects were so mediocre.
I can't imagine how much easier things would have been if we hadn't had to deal with the ~3-4 screw ups who had to be babysat every step of the way, no matter how much you tried to teach them it was just in one ear and out the other. Especially people like our Hunter and Mage.
But even if we booted them, there would have been no one to recruit anyway, certainly no one any better. Even on our giant server the available prospects were so mediocre.
dave is ok said:
A) by that logic I should be basing this on the fact that most 25 man heroics are 3-4 healed. This tier is odd, and I think it's safe to still say your typical raid is 5-2-3 or 18-2-5 in general.
B) that is the correct way to look at it though, you're exactly right: Dps makes up less of your raid in a 10 man, however your actual gain in terms of dps throughput is MORE affected by the staff because of that, not less. Looking at it as a staves per raid is a completely incorrect way to see the issue. On the OTHER hand, if there were for instance a tank legendary, it would make sense for it to acquire at EXACTLY the same rate since blizz just doesn't make fights with tank disparities anymore (Which is also another issue I have and could once again rant about in regards to 10 mans).
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but one of the reasons I generally prefer 25s is more flexibility in setups, especially as a tank when the number can occasionally be pushed up to 3 for certain encounters. With 10s you're absolutely limited to 2.
Though it's not like having 3 tanks is a huge burden or anything - you're probably going to have 3 main tanks (or 2 main tanks and 1 or 2 backups) anyway in case people don't show up, or to take advantage of a certain tank's class abilities.
--------
That said, I feel like I'm probably going to main as DPS next expansion if I decide to play that. Only tanking for 5-mans or offtanking for raids.
It's not the responsibility of the job or anything, and I think I'm probably above average (not necessarily stellar), but the past two times I changed guilds to tank, it didn't end successfully, compared to easing into the role in the guild I spent most of Wrath with.
There's just so much scrutiny on you when trying out to be a main tank that it's easy to underperform (or seem underperfoming), much more so than it is with DPS and Healers. You have to know the encounters much more in-depth, and sheer experience with an encounter plays a larger part than it does with the other roles. If you're not in on the ground floor, it's kind of hard to mesh well.
I'd transfer my main and an alt (or two) and start fresh on a different (old and/or high pop) server and ease my way in as DPS. If it led back to tanking full time? Great. Otherwise, I'd probably enjoy the game without having to deal with the social stresses as well.
Though it's not like having 3 tanks is a huge burden or anything - you're probably going to have 3 main tanks (or 2 main tanks and 1 or 2 backups) anyway in case people don't show up, or to take advantage of a certain tank's class abilities.
--------
That said, I feel like I'm probably going to main as DPS next expansion if I decide to play that. Only tanking for 5-mans or offtanking for raids.
It's not the responsibility of the job or anything, and I think I'm probably above average (not necessarily stellar), but the past two times I changed guilds to tank, it didn't end successfully, compared to easing into the role in the guild I spent most of Wrath with.
There's just so much scrutiny on you when trying out to be a main tank that it's easy to underperform (or seem underperfoming), much more so than it is with DPS and Healers. You have to know the encounters much more in-depth, and sheer experience with an encounter plays a larger part than it does with the other roles. If you're not in on the ground floor, it's kind of hard to mesh well.
I'd transfer my main and an alt (or two) and start fresh on a different (old and/or high pop) server and ease my way in as DPS. If it led back to tanking full time? Great. Otherwise, I'd probably enjoy the game without having to deal with the social stresses as well.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
http://www.wowpedia.org/Med'anRambaldi said:
no way, I can't even picture itTheYanger said:
wonderdung
Member
Let me get this straight...
Wrath has an easy tier (10 man) and a normal tier (25) with heroics available for each. No one really complains, it seems like an ok system.
Cataclysm removes this because they want to create less gear. This creates a ton of balancing issues, fucks over their legendary distribution, and makes raids too hard for casual players. Non-casual players feel unrewarded because the fights are less complicated (to account for 10 mans) while casual players are frustrated because progression is too hard for them.
Blizzard correctly realizes that the easy tier (10 man) was useful to solve both of these problems, so they re-add it in a way that doesn't solve any of the existing problems that they created by merging 25 and 10 man gear.
Excellent!
Wrath has an easy tier (10 man) and a normal tier (25) with heroics available for each. No one really complains, it seems like an ok system.
Cataclysm removes this because they want to create less gear. This creates a ton of balancing issues, fucks over their legendary distribution, and makes raids too hard for casual players. Non-casual players feel unrewarded because the fights are less complicated (to account for 10 mans) while casual players are frustrated because progression is too hard for them.
Blizzard correctly realizes that the easy tier (10 man) was useful to solve both of these problems, so they re-add it in a way that doesn't solve any of the existing problems that they created by merging 25 and 10 man gear.
Excellent!
dave is ok
aztek is ok
10 man has been harder than 25, as hard as 25 and easier than 25. It all depends on the fight. Most of T11 was harder in 10 man, most of T12 is easier in 10 man. Fights like Heroic Shannox and Alysrazor are harder in 10 man still.wonderdung said:
The whole "10 man is easier than 25!" complaint is mainly butthurt hardcore 25 man raiders.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's nothing new that that certain people's primary interest in the game is the game being as exclusionary as possible and that they then try to find ways to argue that the way they play the game is the only acceptable method. I just can't see why anyone cares whether they have 10 man mode or 25 man mode.dave is ok said:
In all fairness to what wonder is saying in Wrath, 10 man mode was universally easier than 25.
developer interview said:
Deathwing fight consists of Malygos phase 3 confirmed
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Angry Grimace said:
Ewwwwww.
Malygos was (and still is, as I don't think they ever fully fixed it) a buggy mess in phase 3.
What's that? The UI swap didn't work properly? Well then proceed to be useless and/or die.
Alex said:
It was fine when it worked right. The difficult thing at first was getting everyone to learn how to actually use the vehicle on the spot, with no previous practice. And no, that crummy daily doesn't count.
I like the idea of vehicles, but they've been clunky ever since they were implemented. They never turn quite right, and the abilities always seem to have a delay compared to your normal ones.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm assuming you mean Flame Leviathan and not Malygos because otherwise this entire quote makes no sense :-DAlex said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
One thing that it seems like they aren't talking about that seems critical for Raid Finder to work at all that they aren't talking about is getting the in-game voice chat to not be fucking terrible. I really can't see how trying to get 25 RANDOM people who you cannot kick out of the group at will to sign onto a single vent/mumble server is going to work well.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Angry Grimace said:
It'll be so easy that raid chat will suffice. That and/or huge extra telegraphs of information somehow.
I don't know. They may get it to work, but it's certainly not going to be elegant. I'm really curious as to how it's going to hold up over time as well.
And I kind of have to agree that merging 10 and 25 lockouts/loot has caused more problems than it solved (if it really even solved any.) That and to a lesser extent the homogenization of heroic modes (from non-existant/modular to binary) are two of the biggest things where I really think Blizzard made poor decisions that have ultimately not been in the best interests of the game or the player base, but perhaps only for ease of development.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think the funniest thing ever is that it's a raid group, but all the bosses are now tank and spank.CarbonatedFalcon said:
As a Rogue, the orange dagger news is welcome, but then, as pointed out, we got first dibs on the warblades and second dibs on TF for the most part as well...
What irks me is that Blizzard essentially admitted they were too lazy to make each class an epic quest / legendary unique to them with a quest chain like back in the day. They used the words "too much work" but that's shocking considering how much they take in revenue.
Thats what will kill WoW, remember when everyone said "Blizzard will kill WoW" but meant it will be with the next big thing, turns out it's mostly their complacency and apathy.
What irks me is that Blizzard essentially admitted they were too lazy to make each class an epic quest / legendary unique to them with a quest chain like back in the day. They used the words "too much work" but that's shocking considering how much they take in revenue.
Thats what will kill WoW, remember when everyone said "Blizzard will kill WoW" but meant it will be with the next big thing, turns out it's mostly their complacency and apathy.
wonderdung
Member
dave is ok said:
No, I'm talking about Wrath, where 10 man was intentionally significantly easier than 25. Blizz took this easy/casual raid setup out of the game with Cataclysm and has been trying to fix all the problems they created by doing that ever since. 10 man used to be the way you geared your alts or did casual weekend raids or whatever, now that's gone. They've correctly identified it as a problem and so they're adding this new extra-easy raid finder thing.
They need to just go back to the old system, but they can't really do it outside of a full expansion pack as it kills a large number of guilds every time they change the "real" raid size.
Also I didn't know Alys and Shannox were harder on 10. I've killed both on 10h but not on 25h... I'd expect that Shannox is worse on 25 because it gets so crowded and Alys is worse on 25h since it's a "no one screws up for 2 or 3 5-minute phases and you win" fight. More people == more chance to screw up. It's of course possible that they're both harder on 10 but I'm not sure how they would be.
Edit: This was my 226th post... I'm not the only one that chuckles every time I see a number that used to be a gear item level am I?
Alex
Member
Yeah, the Druid set is pretty solid. It has a nice color tone with nothing ridiculous or clashing on it and it actually somewhat resembles armor and even has reasonable hints of a class theme going on again! It also meshes a lot more from piece to piece than most stuff.
It's really nothing fancy, but that's kind of a plus in this game with how overbearing things can be, heh. It's not offensive on my eyes and to me that's all I ask.
Still really want to see actual models being rendered for each piece instead of just two, they could do *SO* insanely much more. However, back in reality if they would simply lay off trying to paint the Sistine Chapel on generic pieces from 2004 with the overly organic, monster hide-type manner they insist on as of late it would be swell enough.
It's really nothing fancy, but that's kind of a plus in this game with how overbearing things can be, heh. It's not offensive on my eyes and to me that's all I ask.
Still really want to see actual models being rendered for each piece instead of just two, they could do *SO* insanely much more. However, back in reality if they would simply lay off trying to paint the Sistine Chapel on generic pieces from 2004 with the overly organic, monster hide-type manner they insist on as of late it would be swell enough.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
My bad. I thought you were talking about Cataclysm.wonderdung said:
I actually meant to type Bethtilac instead of Shannox, which was much harder on 10 man. Shannox is pretty even, but on 10 you have less people to break Face Rage. Heroic Alysrazor was harder on 10 because people can't die at all, 25 manhaving a few people die probably won't affect your kill.
I wonder what will they do with loot from the raid finder. It can't be the same as doing the 10 man normal version of Deathwing or else no one will bother doing it, so what will it be?
What about previous Tier raids?
Or maybe no loot at all to make it simpler and just make the raid finder give a good amount of Valor points.
What about previous Tier raids?
Or maybe no loot at all to make it simpler and just make the raid finder give a good amount of Valor points.