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World of Warcraft |OT4| "Why do we keep playing? It is simply in our nature."

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M

Mothman91

Member
Bisnic said:
Well, considering all the stuff that you can do at max lvl in this expansion, it's understandable why people barely play their low lvl alts anymore.
Click to expand...

Yep, just got my priest to 90, and have gotten him geared up to 465 ilvl and just have to wait out for resets. Only thing that I have to do now is just do dailies, which is tedious, or else I'd level my alt.
 
R

Rockandrollclown

lookwhatyou'vedone
Sir Abacus said:
Alt progression has gone from quite manageable to utterly demoralizing. It wouldn't be surprising if there just weren't that many people coming up the ranks where there would have been plenty of alts before.
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This has been the case for me. Normally by this point in the expansion I would be leveling a second 90. With how grindy max lvl has become I don't see myself ever leveling an alt again. Blizz's aim was to get people into the world, but I log on to raid and harvest spirits for flask reagents thats it. On the upside its cutting back on my WoW addiction.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
Sir Abacus said:
Alt progression has gone from quite manageable to utterly demoralizing. It wouldn't be surprising if there just weren't that many people coming up the ranks where there would have been plenty of alts before.
Click to expand...

I switched servers like 6 months ago to Zul'jin from Medivh where I'd been since the game launched. I got a shaman to 85 and a warrior to 83 before Pandaria, now I have a DK at 87 (cheating, I know) and have started a priest and a monk. My alt leveling process is still just chain queueing in LFD or BGs while questing.

I understand where you're coming from, but for me, nothing was worse than during BC. I leveled 6 characters to 70, and to this day I sit and do tradeskills and pray for as few Auchindoun dungeons as possible to pop between 58 and 68 because I can't stand to even look at fucking Terrokar, Blade's Edge, or Nagrand again. If anything I'm enjoying leveling alts more now, because the only thing Cata got right was starter content, and I can actually stand about 1/2 of the WotLK zones. The Cata high level questing areas/dungeons are some of my least favorite in the game, but by 83 there's MoP greens that make everything up to 85 cake.

I'm sure by the time I get one character to 90 I'll feel differently, but there's some sick part of me that keeps saying "this ain't no EQ hell level," and also so far I've been really pleased with the MoP zones and dungeons.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
Sir Abacus said:
Alt progression has gone from quite manageable to utterly demoralizing. It wouldn't be surprising if there just weren't that many people coming up the ranks where there would have been plenty of alts before.
Click to expand...

There are a ton of monk tanks in random dungeon queues so you at least have that. Low level questing and pvp is as bad as it's been since TBC, though.
 
L

LadyRiven

Member
Wubby said:
Wubby is #1 in US!



There's a bug causing all the high ranked pet tamers to be deleted off Wowprogress so it's only a matter of time before I get deleted as well. I should be only around 200th in US but the others higher than me have already been deleted. At least I have a screenshot that I was once #1 on wowprogress lol.
Click to expand...

Wow, congrats! I'm also a pet addict. Spending way too much time on it lately. orz
 
E

Evlar

Banned
Alt progression has been pretty smooth since MoP on my server. Lots of monks, of course, but that's fine since they're a hybrid class. Plenty of other classes leveling too. Dungeon finder queues have been breezy.

All in all better than trying to level through Outland when Wrath first released. Billions of DKs, healers getting constantly spammed via whisper to help in instances, long waits for everyone else including tanks.
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Strafer said:
I'm not sure if this is intended but I was able to transmog my gun into a bow, freaking great, hate guns.
Click to expand...

It was always intended that way, but only for guns/bows/crossbows. Which sucks, since i hate daggers on my mage. I want my dagger to look like a staff dammit!
 
B

Berordn

Member
Strafer said:
I'm not sure if this is intended but I was able to transmog my gun into a bow, freaking great, hate guns.
Click to expand...

Hunter ranged weapons are the only type you're allowed to transmog outside of weapon class, since the animations for the two don't have any gameplay implications and guns are fucking loud.

Meanwhile I can't transmog my Horseman's blade on my mage because it's a main hand weapon and Lo'shan is a one-hand weapon. It's a spellsword, why does that even matter!
 
S

strafer

member
Bisnic said:
It was always intended that way, but only for guns/bows/crossbows. Which sucks, since i hate daggers on my mage. I want my dagger to look like a staff dammit!
Click to expand...

Fuck.

I thought it was bugging out.

Was going to try and turn my spell dagger into a spell sword.

Weekend ruined.
 
T

Tarazet

Member
Gentleman Jack said:
There are a ton of monk tanks in random dungeon queues so you at least have that. Low level questing and pvp is as bad as it's been since TBC, though.
Click to expand...

I was having instant queues leveling up my Warlock and Mage all the way through TLK. Once you get to 85, though, no tanks to be found. In anything short of LFR, running as a tank still results in instant pops.
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Since I don't have an herbalist that can fly in Pandaria yet, my alchemist/scribe just have to take its own herbs from the Tillars farm and 16 Enigma Seeds a day. >_> Kinda sucks to do that annoying farming job all the time, but at least it's free!

Edit : By the way, i'm trying to find the perfect shield to go with my Draenei paladin T5 set, but i can't find anything that have that purple crystal thing look, any ideas?

SFB2G.png
 
L

LadyRiven

Member
Bisnic said:
Since I don't have an herbalist that can fly in Pandaria yet, my alchemist/scribe just have to take its own herbs from the Tillars farm and 16 Enigma Seeds a day. >_> Kinda sucks to do that annoying farming job all the time, but at least it's free!

Edit : By the way, i'm trying to find the perfect shield to go with my Draenei paladin T5 set, but i can't find anything that have that purple crystal thing look, any ideas?

SFB2G.png
Click to expand...

How about this one?
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
So uh, grinding Revered with The Black Prince in about 15 minutes can't be working as intended can it? Surely this will be hotfixed.. xD
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Mothman91 said:
Please elaborate.

:p
Click to expand...

Go to the beaches where your opposing faction mobs spawn ad-infinitum.

Tag everything.

Rinse repeat.

Everything you've touched you get the rep for, you don't have to be the killing blow person. Even NPCs dying from NPC artillery counts.

Effect is doubled in a 2-man party, or quintupled in a full party. :p

Quote to see full thing, lurker proof!

It took me just about 15 minutes for 11k in rep in a 2-man party.
 
M

Mothman91

Member
Nice, is there any nice items for being revered? I don't think you can go pass revered, right? I think they are waiting on next major patch.
 
C

ch0mp

Member
Tarazet said:
I was having instant queues leveling up my Warlock and Mage all the way through TLK. Once you get to 85, though, no tanks to be found. In anything short of LFR, running as a tank still results in instant pops.
Click to expand...
2 dungeons for the first 2 levels, 4 for 87-90. It gets old really quickly.
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Well now its the Fathom Lord boss in SSC that I can't kill, because this asshole got a spell that drains half my HP and can be used multiple times in a matter of secs. And the stupid ghost run from the graveyard AND the walk back to him inside the raid takes like 5-7 mins.

Of course it had to be the boss that drops the T5 pants. /sigh
 
N

Neki

Member
Tunesmith said:
Go to the beaches where your opposing faction mobs spawn ad-infinitum.

Tag everything.

Rinse repeat.

Everything you've touched you get the rep for, you don't have to be the killing blow person. Even NPCs dying from NPC artillery counts.

Effect is doubled in a 2-man party, or quintupled in a full party. :p

Quote to see full thing, lurker proof!

It took me just about 15 minutes for 11k in rep in a 2-man party.
Click to expand...

What are the coordinates? I see no areas getting shelled, unless I need to be friendly?
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Neki said:
What are the coordinates? I see no areas getting shelled, unless I need to be friendly?
Click to expand...
The initial faction footholds need to be built, eg you need to have done atleast the first storyline with the new faction. Then two beaches just outside them in Kasarang turn into warzones.
 
E

eudaemonic

Member
Tunesmith said:
The initial faction footholds need to be built, eg you need to have done atleast the first storyline with the new faction. Then two beaches just outside them in Kasarang turn into warzones.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, that's why I wasn't seeing them either. On the plus side, it was stupid easy to get from half friendly to honored tonight with the Prince just killing for the tokens that drop off the opposite faction. Didn't take too long killing one of the Alliance quest guys (who wasn't on tonight's playlist) and grabbing 33 points each kill and he reset fairly quickly.

One thing I wish they'd clarify was the 30 token quest items. Wasn't till I already blown 30 commendations that I learned it turns into a five man boss (the crab one at least) and I had 0 people on in my guild and no one seemed interested in helping out. So when dailies reset, it'll be gone and I have had wasted 30 for absolutely nothing. >.>

On a side note, I saw a couple of Alliance camped out in the Horde base who were killing NPCs but not getting PvP flagged. I'd imagine they were rep grinding? Do you get more points for killing peons and stuff inside the opposing base?
 
T

Tarazet

Member
eudaemonic said:
Ahhh, that's why I wasn't seeing them either. On the plus side, it was stupid easy to get from half friendly to honored tonight with the Prince just killing for the tokens that drop off the opposite faction. Didn't take too long killing one of the Alliance quest guys (who wasn't on tonight's playlist) and grabbing 33 points each kill and he reset fairly quickly.

One thing I wish they'd clarify was the 30 token quest items. Wasn't till I already blown 30 commendations that I learned it turns into a five man boss (the crab one at least) and I had 0 people on in my guild and no one seemed interested in helping out. So when dailies reset, it'll be gone and I have had wasted 30 for absolutely nothing. >.>

On a side note, I saw a couple of Alliance camped out in the Horde base who were killing NPCs but not getting PvP flagged. I'd imagine they were rep grinding? Do you get more points for killing peons and stuff inside the opposing base?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Even if you're running solo you can grind to Revered in an hour just by killing the opposite faction's NPCs on the beachhead.

We managed to 2 man the tiger (Guardian Druid and a Demo Warlock), but he was a real pain without a dedicated healer. He can't be tanked and does large amounts of unavoidable random damage. Only thing that saved me was Symbiosis so the lock could keep Rejuv on me, and we both had to use our battle-rez.
 
R

Rokal

Member
The tiger can be tanked, everyone just needs to stay in melee range. If someone is out far he'll ignore the threat table. Pretty easy to solo as a tank, just takes a while.
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
eudaemonic said:
Ahhh, that's why I wasn't seeing them either. On the plus side, it was stupid easy to get from half friendly to honored tonight with the Prince just killing for the tokens that drop off the opposite faction. Didn't take too long killing one of the Alliance quest guys (who wasn't on tonight's playlist) and grabbing 33 points each kill and he reset fairly quickly.

One thing I wish they'd clarify was the 30 token quest items. Wasn't till I already blown 30 commendations that I learned it turns into a five man boss (the crab one at least) and I had 0 people on in my guild and no one seemed interested in helping out. So when dailies reset, it'll be gone and I have had wasted 30 for absolutely nothing. >.>

On a side note, I saw a couple of Alliance camped out in the Horde base who were killing NPCs but not getting PvP flagged. I'd imagine they were rep grinding? Do you get more points for killing peons and stuff inside the opposing base?
Click to expand...

Those NPCs aren't PVP flagged so they're just regular mobs, and yep that sounds like what I was doing. You can do it either at the Alliance base or Horde base. Horde base has more mobs if you're Alliance and vice versa. I'm Alliance and did it at the Alliance base however as there was no rep-grinding competition so I had the entire beachfront to myself and my Party partner.

Btw, don't worry about those tokens you hand in for quests. You'll have 1000 of them by the time you've grinded your rep with the Prince (in addition to tons of Motes and cloth). :p
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
Rokal said:
The tiger can be tanked, everyone just needs to stay in melee range. If someone is out far he'll ignore the threat table. Pretty easy to solo as a tank, just takes a while.
Click to expand...

Yeah, seems like all three are solo-able, at least by a tank type class. Someone released the Crane while I was soloing the tiger, and that worked out, sooo..

Not that it's time efficient or anything.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
LFR Remaining Bosses Counter Removed

Right, so with 5.1 the game no longer tells you how many bosses are left for the group you’re being matched with for Raid Finder (LFR).

To explain why we made the change, let’s go back to the problem everyone was experiencing before. Let’s say a fresh LFR group is put together, they get two bosses down, and then wipe a few times on the third and lose 10 people who think they’re too cool for wiping. Now the group is down to 15, waiting for 10 new people, the queue eventually pops for those 10, and most of them see 2/6 and hit cancel. The raid still isn't full, the matchmaker has to go looking again for more people, and meanwhile as time ticks on people from the original run are getting more frustrated. Maybe a few of them leave, and then there’s even more spots to fill. Plenty of times everyone just gives up and the entire run falls apart, all those people are back in the queue, and they’ll be-damned if they join an in-progress run to fall apart again!

These kinds of things happen all of the time, and in the vast majority of situations it’s simply because people don’t like the idea of joining an in-progress run, even if it would have succeeded.

You may think we’re trying to be underhanded, but the reality is we’re trying to help people be more efficient with their play time. What most people don’t realize is that if they get and complete an in-progress run, the next time they queue they will preferentially be placed into a fresh instance. What everyone should be doing, to be the most efficient, is joining and sticking with their runs to completion. If they join an in-progress group they can catch up on those other couple bosses they missed immediately after, and if they have the time, they’d be wise to down the ones they've already killed again for extra Valor.

The patch has only been out a couple days of course, but personally I think there are some people who don’t realize yet how an in-progress run, and that extra Valor, can directly translate to improved items through the new upgrade system. An in-progress run is very likely better bang for the buck to your character power due to item level upgrades than hitting cancel over and over to get a fresh run and then hoping for a boss drop.

There are of course other issues that cause LFR groups to fall apart, like boss difficulty, and those are the kinds of things we’re looking at bigger solutions for. Losing a couple people doesn’t need to mean the whole run is doomed.

Can't people who just joined leave immediately upon seeing that it's not a fresh run and just queue again? I believe if a boss is killed you don't get deserter for leaving so this doesn't fix the issue you're trying to fix really.

There's a deserter debuff given if you don't stay and participate in the raid.

Let's expand your Scenario. I queue as a Healer, I get a group that is on last boss. We kill the boss. However, now I still need the first two bosses. So I queue and zone in, guess what? The groups is on last boss, the one I have already killed. So I drop group as soon as I zone in. Exactly what has this fixed?

Is this a hypothetical situation? If you're solo-queuing you should be getting a fresh instance when queuing again after completing the previous in-progress run. It's not an absolute guarantee, but pretty close to one.

What if you are valor capped for the week? What good does killing bosses again do? Or what if you have limited play time, and would rather queue once and get your LFR done in one go? This change doesn't stop 2/6 queues from showing up. It isn't going to speed up anything. Everyone who would have gotten a 2/6 and skipped it, is now forced to do that 2/6 and then hope the next queue works as intended putting you in for the first boss, and then dropping, creating another 2/6 for someone else. I don't see how that helps at all.

Matching random people together with differing interests, preferences, and goals is always going to mean people will be leaving when they feel they want to for... whatever reasons they deem necessary. If you want to have a group that's organized and sticks together, queuing to be matched with strangers has a higher chance of not offering that experience. What we can do, and will continue to strive for, is lessening the social burdens of being matched with strangers in an unknown situation and reducing some of the behaviors that may cause more degenerative uses of the tool - ideally through positive reinforcement, but that's not always possible.

In any case, I don't think anyone thinks any part of the game is perfect, and so much like everything we do it's going to be an ongoing iterative process. Feedback on what you think we can do to make things smoother for you is always helpful.

As one of the people who requested this change a month ago and is quite pleased with it, I'd like to point out that it's been working in Dungeon Finder for a long time now. Initially I thought nerfing end bosses in LFR was the only solution, to reduce the number of people who leave towards the end. But then it was pointed out to me that Dungeon Finder enjoyed great success simply by hiding the number of dead bosses on the confirmation screen. It's not some radical new change; it's just taking a successful improvement to Dungeon Finder, and extending it to LFR.

I'll add that it'simply selfish to want the freedom to leave raids early, but not also accept the responsibility to sometimes be called upon to finish a half-completed raid. Trying to only benefit and never contribute is cheating the system. It's standard game design not to reward people who try to cheat. Nothing surprising here.

You're awesome.

And you're exactly right, you can't have it both ways. Leave whenever it suits you AND expect there to be fresh raids waiting for you each time. It'd be great if that was possible, but it is an MMO with lots of other real live people playing. Ideally though cooperating to complete a raid is rewarding enough for everyone that it's generally functioning in a way that makes everyone want to cooperate.

I think the domino effect that this will cause will force most everyone to queue 2 times for every raid.

How are you not queuing twice, or more, waiting for a 0/6 run?

Anyway, there are still plenty of runs making it to completion, which means less people joining in-progress runs, and that only increases as people learn the fights and their gear improves.
Click to expand...
 
U

Ultratech

Member
So that's why they removed the bosses killed counter...

(At least there's an addon that tells you it. Hehe.)

Also didn't realize they changed the rewards for random Scenarios, which can now drop 450, 463, or 476 gear.

Bisnic said:
Well now its the Fathom Lord boss in SSC that I can't kill, because this asshole got a spell that drains half my HP and can be used multiple times in a matter of secs. And the stupid ghost run from the graveyard AND the walk back to him inside the raid takes like 5-7 mins.

Of course it had to be the boss that drops the T5 pants. /sigh
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that move only works on you if you use Mana.
(i.e. You might need some outside help.)

Sir Abacus said:
The patch notes this time around have been a god awful piece of shit. Why even bother with them at this point?
Click to expand...

I know, right? Lots of crap they left out of the patch notes.

And they would nerf nodes as soon as I'm finally able to get 500 in BS on my DK. (;_;)

Here's their reply about it though:
Lack of Complete Patch Notes

Maybe I'm just ignorant of the reason here but is there any reason that the absolute full list of changes in a patch are not listed? For example, the stealth nerf to Spectral Guise, the change in pvp power as it relates to healing, etc. were not mentioned. Most of the times people have to find these out for themselves then wait for confirmation on their respective forums. Any ideas?
I compile the notes, so I should probably explain a bit.

Essentially, the development of every World of Warcraft patch is a highly iterative creative process. Like most creative processes, there's a little bit of chaos involved, with discreet sub-teams working on individual projects, but also coordinating closely at the same time, so there's always a frenzy of activity going on at any given moment. With that in mind, there's not one comprehensive, monolithic source of information on what's being changed. Instead, information needs to be solicited, provided, re-phrased, confirmed, re-confirmed, edited, and revised as the patch is developed and I compile the notes. That also means that if there's an omission, you can be reasonably certain that it wasn't intentional. It's also worth noting that, as the code changes to resolve issues and implement new features, sometimes things go unexpectedly wonky with older parts of the game.

I'm careful to compile the notes as completely as possible, but it's not unlikely that some things will slip through the cracks from time to time. Perhaps an item didn't follow a typical development pipeline, or something was fixed at the last second. And of course, there will be rare occasions when I simply make an error and omit something that should have been included.

In all cases, we try to make the notes as informative and complete as possible, while also keeping them relevant for 99% of players.

Because if they detailed everything that went into a patch it'd be about ten pages long and everyone would whine about that. I agree that they could be a touch more extensive though.
That's not precisely the case, but we do try to keep things relatively concise. Admittedly, there are many changes that occur that wouldn't mean anything at all to 99% of players, and really crunchy notes of that sort have historically always been omitted.

They do not mention the ones which are apt to upset a large majority of the players.
That's not the case either; there are notes in virtually every update that we know will upset someone. We don't shy away from providing information that needs to be provided, and I'm afraid that you are ascribing a motivation to an event that is actually happenstance.

So it's just coincidence that almost all of the stuff that you "forgot" to put in the patch notes are things that negatively impact the game?
I have a question for you: Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?

This should most definitely been in the patch notes yet absolutely nothing has been said about it from Blizzards end.
Indeed, it should have been. The fact that completing a partially cleared instance should cause your next Raid Finder queue to always be a fresh instance should also have been noted as well.

I'll be adding both of those to the notes shortly, in fact.

The advantage is you can simply ignore addressing the issue like is almost always done with "stealth nerfs." Just change it and not say a word.
I still don't see how that's an advantage. We always have the option of discussing a topic or not. 'Hiding' something would just make people grumpier when it sneaks up on them, which makes it even harder to speak about it in a constructive atmosphere.

I'll be honest: I'm having a hard time picturing how you think things work around here. I admit to having a nice diabolic cackle now and then, but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.
Click to expand...


Also, apparently Viscidus, Twin Emperors, C'Thun, Al'ar, and Reliquary of Souls got hotfixed, so you can actually solo them now. (Or they're easier to kill at least.)
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/246579-you-can-solo-gunship-cthun/

And other undocumented changes:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_5.1.0_(undocumented_changes)
 
M

mclem

Member
Have the spawn rates of rare mobs increased, too? I'm sure I saw far more than usual while pootling around yesterday.
 
M

Melhisedek

Member
Anyone using Windows 8? and if yes how is your performance? Mine is pretty much lower. Like in 15-20 FPS lower (struggling to get 60FPS outside in Pandaria) This is using same settings as Win 7 and latest drivers for nvidia.

Spec

3570 @ 4.5
8Gig RAM
560ti

This is a fresh install of Win8 so I guess there are no conflicts.
 
E

Evlar

Banned
Melhisedek said:
Anyone using Windows 8? and if yes how is your performance? Mine is pretty much lower. Like in 15-20 FPS lower (struggling to get 60FPS outside in Pandaria) This is using same settings as Win 7 and latest drivers for nvidia.

Spec

3570 @ 4.5
8Gig RAM
560ti

This is a fresh install of Win8 so I guess there are no conflicts.
Click to expand...
Yes on Windows 8, and no difficulty. Saw no change at all when I upgraded. I have an ATi card; perhaps the nVidia drivers are the problem?
 
T

Tarazet

Member
I think the removal of the LFR bosses completed was a great change. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I'm pretty sure I did get fresh runs of every one when I ran them on Tuesday. Now if only they would drop some of those stupid tier pieces.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
Ultratech said:
Also, apparently Viscidus, Twin Emperors, C'Thun, Al'ar, and Reliquary of Souls got hotfixed, so you can actually solo them now. (Or they're easier to kill at least.)
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/246579-you-can-solo-gunship-cthun/
Click to expand...

Just duoed these with a friend two days ago and was wondering how the heck some classes could solo them.

Ultratech said:
And other undocumented changes:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_5.1.0_(undocumented_changes)
Click to expand...
The entrance to the Black Temple has been partially boarded up (the portal is still usable).
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand this one. Cosmetic nonsense I assume?
 
J

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Nice, I got stuck at Twin Emps the other day. Gonna log in and get some payback now :)

edit: twin emps still suck
 
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