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[StMeph]

Honestly everything I just highlighted is pretty short-sighted and makes me smh... I am sincerely sad for the stance of this community on new players. (Which if you have been paying attention we aren't new players, just new to the role. I have a number of 90 toons.)

Gaming should be not be so inclusive that people cannot get off their high-horse and respect people in their party. (I know I cannot win this argument)

You're the only person who sounds like he's on a high horse by claiming to be in the morally superior position while everyone else is doing what is expected of them in groups and dungeons correctly.

If you're not a new player, you should know that the onus is on the player for knowing his role/job for a given pull or dungeon. No one should be expected to hold your hand through something and tell you what to do, or how to do it. The community as a whole is known for being impatient and having a short fuse, especially for old content.

You can't expect GAF to commiserate when you're the one that breached accepted WoW etiquette.

 

[Draxal]

You're the only person who sounds like he's on a high horse by claiming to be in the morally superior position while everyone else is doing what is expected of them in groups and dungeons correctly.

If you're not a new player, you should know that the onus is on the player for knowing his role/job for a given pull or dungeon. No one should be expected to hold your hand through something and tell you what to do, or how to do it. The community as a whole is known for being impatient and having a short fuse, especially for old content.

You can't expect GAF to commiserate when you're the one that breached accepted WoW etiquette.

Cata/Pandaria leveling is so insanely fast that questing should get you through it fast enough.

And the community as a whole known for being impatient and having a short fuse for old content is not a good thing and pretty damning of the player base and it's why lfd groups are always clockblocked due to lack of tanks.

 

[cdyhybrid]

And the community as a whole known for being impatient and having a short fuse for old content is not a good thing and pretty damning of the player base.

Bingo.

 

[Draxal]

I sincerely hope that they are 11 if they make comments like what we have seen. If not that is definitely an adolescent mentality.

And no one says we aren't willing to learn so thanks for that comment. /s Like I said it is just going to get better throughout the run not immediately owning every piece of content.

I do agree with one thing, being upfront might be a thing to embrace. The main thing here is we are alts too but played dps for a long time and intermittently. DPS is easy, do damage, don't pull aggro. A lot dps has the ability to remove threat so really isn't difficult to do your job well.

Honestly everything I just highlighted is pretty short-sighted and makes me smh... I am sincerely sad for the stance of this community on new players. (Which if you have been paying attention we aren't new players, just new to the role. I have a number of 90 toons.)

Gaming should be not be so inclusive that people cannot get off their high-horse and respect people in their party. (I know I cannot win this argument)

But moving on, thanks for at least responding... Sounds like find a decent guild, full of decent people or gtfo.

Man I was having fun playing a healer for once... well that was short-lived...

The responses you got were too harsh, but I'll be frank tanks get shit upon so much this game that if you wife does not have a thick skin, she'll get incredibly frustrated by the game/role

With the caveat that you find a good guild, which is actually easier than you might think. The player base is older now so you should be able to find a guild that would cater to your needs.

 

[Anbokr]

Blue Post from Bashiok:


Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15700583998?page=1

Color me interested.

Definitely excited. Like others have said, armor just hasn't been that exciting aside from a few gems for particular classes here and there. The major reason for this imo was their policy of trying to adapt the raid dungeon into the armor, it just made for some very weird sets that felt arbitrary, and non-class based. You could swap around the paladin, warrior, and dk sets most of the time. Same went for the cloth and the like.

Vanilla and TBC consistently produced some of the best and most iconic class sets, so super hyped to see them go back to that philosophy of just trying to make the coolest class set and not being limited to the raid environment or models for design and inspiration.

 

[Draxal]

Definitely excited. Like others have said, armor just hasn't been that exciting aside from a few gems for particular classes here and there. The major reason for this imo was their policy of trying to adapt the raid dungeon into the armor, it just made for some very weird sets that felt arbitrary, and non-class based. You could swap around the paladin, warrior, and dk sets most of the time. Same went for the cloth and the like.

Vanilla and TBC consistently produced some of the best and most iconic class sets, so super hyped to see them go back to that philosophy of just trying to make the coolest class set and not being limited to the raid environment or models for design and inspiration.

Yes and no, I think some of the most iconic sets came from Cata (and I hated that xp otherwise), but I do hear you about being limited to the raid environment for inspiration.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I don't think drawing inspiration from the instance is a bad thing, but I think putting the class aesthetic above the instance aesthetic will allow for more freedom.

Making a Mage set and making small touches to give it flavor from the instance, instead of making a cloth set that matches the instance and then making small touches to give it class flavor.

 

[StMeph]

Give me class sets that fit the class over class sets that fit within a raid theme any day.

 

[TatteredHat]

Either way Tier 17 armor is going to be rather disappointing once it's out considering that it looks exactly the same as random pieces from Highmaul. The sets that do look unique are limited to Mythic drops.

Atleast previously the random pieces that looked the same as the set armor came from the same tier rather than from an instance that's been out for months.

 

[ampere]

The ones that fit with a raid kind of make sense, like taking pieces of the enemies and making armor with them, but cool armor > armor that makes sense.

I'll probably keep transmogging to something anyway and Monk class identity is very young.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Blue Post from Bashiok:


Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15700583998?page=1

Color me interested.

Interesting.

I'm of the opinion that Monk T16 is probably the best tier set that I'll ever see in this game, so I'm hoping to be surprised.

(I love the idea of robed monks)

Looking forward to seeing it.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think you could do some pretty cool designs that don't have 10-story-tall shoulder pads and helmets that shoot off fireworks shows, but they'll look odd on the non-human models.

 

[strafer]

I hope they do something awesome with Warlocks.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I sincerely hope that they are 11 if they make comments like what we have seen. If not that is definitely an adolescent mentality.

And no one says we aren't willing to learn so thanks for that comment. /s Like I said it is just going to get better throughout the run not immediately owning every piece of content.

I do agree with one thing, being upfront might be a thing to embrace. The main thing here is we are alts too but played dps for a long time and intermittently. DPS is easy, do damage, don't pull aggro. A lot dps has the ability to remove threat so really isn't difficult to do your job well.

Honestly everything I just highlighted is pretty short-sighted and makes me smh... I am sincerely sad for the stance of this community on new players. (Which if you have been paying attention we aren't new players, just new to the role. I have a number of 90 toons.)

Gaming should be not be so inclusive that people cannot get off their high-horse and respect people in their party. (I know I cannot win this argument)

But moving on, thanks for at least responding... Sounds like find a decent guild, full of decent people or gtfo.

Man I was having fun playing a healer for once... well that was short-lived...

You can't win this argument because your argument is that you and your wives experience is more important than 3 other peoples experience, when you're all paying 15 bucks a month.

You know there are quests you can do, where you can go at your own pace, right? Getting 1-100 with just questing is a totally viable way to do it.

Cata/Pandaria leveling is so insanely fast that questing should get you through it fast enough.

And the community as a whole known for being impatient and having a short fuse for old content is not a good thing and pretty damning of the player base and it's why lfd groups are always clockblocked due to lack of tanks.

Really, really lacking the distinction between LFD and doing a dungeon with your guild. This is why Silver is required to queue for random heroics now, but not required to walk in the heroic and do it the old fashioned way. You can totally skip proving grounds if you have a premade 5 man group.

LFD groups are not meant to be there to tutor you on how to play and hold your hand, that's what guilds are for. LFD is meant for everyone to already know what they're doing, and to get it done as best they can for not being in voice chat and not knowing each other.

You really expect people to invest the time and effort on forming a comradery with people you will never play with again because they're on a different server? Or sometimes speak a totally different language?

 

[SuperDowns]

Cata/Pandaria leveling is so insanely fast that questing should get you through it fast enough.

And the community as a whole known for being impatient and having a short fuse for old content is not a good thing and pretty damning of the player base and it's why lfd groups are always clockblocked due to lack of tanks.

Thank you. And Exactly, would love to contribute tanks and healers and not be shit on.

Look I am not trying to derail this thread, I imagine GAF would rather talk about new content than my struggles to stay relevant in old content. I give you pass to move on, I am just disappointed in the LFD reaction to new players but it sounds like I cannot change peoples perception to 'new players' or old players in new roles. I will look for a good guild and move on. And if anyone has any feedback about that, please PM me.

Thanks.

 

[Draxal]

Really, really lacking the distinction between LFD and doing a dungeon with your guild. This is why Silver is required to queue for random heroics now, but not required to walk in the heroic and do it the old fashioned way. You can totally skip proving grounds if you have a premade 5 man group.

LFD groups are not meant to be there to tutor you on how to play and hold your hand, that's what guilds are for. LFD is meant for everyone to already know what they're doing, and to get it done as best they can for not being in voice chat and not knowing each other.

You really expect people to invest the time and effort on forming a comradery with people you will never play with again because they're on a different server? Or sometimes speak a totally different language?

Comraderie no, but some civility yes. Which is what clearly he is complaining about. I've been in some dungeons with some bad tanks in LFD, but the dps were able to carry the group, I mean we grit our teeth, but I try to help them out when possible, because there's only a finite amount of people that can put up with the crap that tanks get.

I don't blame new people for being bad at this game, as the game has a huge learning curve and fighting the UI is the number one part of it.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Thank you. And Exactly, would love to contribute tanks and healers and not be shit on.

Wait in queue for 30 minutes
Join dungeon with skeletons all over the floor
Oh, the tank doesn't know what he's doing and now my dungeon is gonna take twice as long, cost me gold for dying, and may just totally fall apart.


Right, why aren't DPS more empathetic to the plight of tanks and healers?

 

[Draxal]

Wait in queue for 30 minutes
Join dungeon with skeletons all over the floor
Oh, the tank doesn't know what he's doing and now my dungeon is gonna take twice as long, cost me gold for dying, and may just totally fall apart.


Right, why aren't DPS more empathetic to the plight of tanks and healers?

And this is why most tanks/healers I know only do guild runs or with friends, because 90% of the time the dps are the ones that don't know what they are doing.

If not; they're complete jerks about it and will boot any dps that steps out of line (SuperDowns which you do have the option of doing do a vote and you'll get that one annoying dps out of the party instantly, if not they kick you guys and you get an instance right away).

 

[ZenaxPure]

I dunno, I think on the whole T10 and T12 are two of the best looking tiers (taking all classes into consideration) and those sets were based off the raid mobs. But really in general I feel like they do this already whenever they feel like it anyway. Rogue T13 was a batman set, there were no batman bosses in Dragon Soul. This raid tier is a poison themed set, there aren't really any poison themed bosses in the raids. Plenty of other examples for other classes, but, I'm a rogue so those just spring to my mind first.

Also the thought of TBC producing some of the most iconic sets is laughable to me as a rogue, T4 and T6 are easily my least favorite rogue sets (T4 especially is some sort of special kind of awful) and I really don't like the Sunwell leather armor either, the hat looks like a sad face.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I hope they do something awesome with Warlocks.

T17M for Warlocks is pretty neat.

Really, really lacking the distinction between LFD and doing a dungeon with your guild. This is why Silver is required to queue for random heroics now, but not required to walk in the heroic and do it the old fashioned way. You can totally skip proving grounds if you have a premade 5 man group.

LFD groups are not meant to be there to tutor you on how to play and hold your hand, that's what guilds are for. LFD is meant for everyone to already know what they're doing, and to get it done as best they can for not being in voice chat and not knowing each other.

You really expect people to invest the time and effort on forming a comradery with people you will never play with again because they're on a different server? Or sometimes speak a totally different language?

You can be unwilling to hold someone's hand without being a prick about it. There's no excuse for the level of verbal abuse that happens in this game.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

t6 Rogue looks cool because you never worse the helmet, you wore cursed vision instead =p

You can be unwilling to hold someone's hand without being a prick about it. There's no excuse for the level of verbal abuse that happens in this game.

Go ahead and quote me where I said that was ok.

Kicking people or telling them they don't know what they're doing isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to a person.

 

[strafer]

this expansions tiers will only look good on Orcs I feel.

 

[cdyhybrid]

t6 Rogue looks cool because you never worse the helmet, you wore cursed vision instead =p




Go ahead and quote me where I said that was ok.

Kicking people or telling them they don't know what they're doing isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to a person.

You didn't explicitly say it was okay, but you sure don't sound like you have a problem with it.

 

[Draxal]

B please.

I am a healer.

When I am bad, I am bad.

Sometimes it hurts my feelings when someone tells me that I am bad, when I am actually bad. I usually take a moment to feel sorry for myself, and then..

OH WELL. SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP.

After that I read the mechanics of the fight/spell/whatever and figure out what I did wrong. Usually it's followed by a moment of oh my god I'm so stupid.

Why should you get a pass? Seriously, what makes you so special? Is it because people aren't being nice to you about you fucking up the mechanics? Or is it because you're a tank and/or healer, and omigod MORE VALUABLE THAN OTHER PLAYERS duh.

By the way, I'm the type of healer that is okay with a group all pulling <10k dps in a heroic and fucking up all the mechanics... the first couple times. I once got put into a heroic when one of the DPS was running as a bear, didn't know what a DPS spec WAS for a druid (lolwutisferal), and most of the people could not be bothered to read the dungeon journal. I sat with them and typed out a long and not-at-all-ragey explanation of what every single player was supposed to be doing each fight. I think I spent two hours wiping in heroic bloodmines with them.

Would it be nice if everyone did that very nicely to everyone else? Yeah, maybe.

Is that to be expected, or even real life for most people? No.

People pay real money to play this game, and if you're fucking shit up and not bothering to read about each encounter (dungeon journal), don't be surprised if people are short tempered with you. It's not their job to babysit you, and it doesn't matter if you're a special little tank/healer combo.

I actually think that combo is cool, because it's my favorite combo as far as relationships go. & yes, I have a bit of empathy for you in that no one likes to see their partner get shit on, and sometimes react defensively. The best thing for you two to do would be to watch a youtube video on the fight, or consult wowhead. They break apart encounters by role, and explain fairly well what each role is expected to do.

Will you two fuck up? Yeah, probably. Most people do. Will you two get called baddies and be subject to the somewhat elitist and unforgiving community of WoW? Yes. Most likely. Am I sorry that you can't protect your partner's feelings? Actually, yes. I am.

But you're complaining to a bunch of people that have likely been on the receiving end, wiping and wasting time, on stuff that isn't even hard/progression. &, you're giving off this aura like it's not your fault, it's EVERYONE ELSE'S fault, and that's not true. It's your fault. Oh well.

He didn't ask for a pass, he's asking for civility.

He also clearly asked how to get into a better situation in this thread as well which people have given him advice for.

The fact that he plays with SO also excaberates this situation, I know alot of people are fine getting called out but if you call their SO fists are flying.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Either way Tier 17 armor is going to be rather disappointing once it's out considering that it looks exactly the same as random pieces from Highmaul. The sets that do look unique are limited to Mythic drops.

Atleast previously the random pieces that looked the same as the set armor came from the same tier rather than from an instance that's been out for months.

Eh, I feel like Tier 17 N/H Pally set looks good to me and make me feel that I'm a paladin. As much I wanna get the mythic set (helmet looks goofy to me, though), it is currently impossible for me to do it on the current server I'm playing (Saurfang) and I'm still too low to go mythic yet. Though I'm not very well versed when it comes to armor design, so don't take my word for it.

Anyways, there's something that I'm curious about. I did LFR and Heroic, yet I got no stones due to the fact that I killed the 6 bosses on normal. A guildie told me that I can only get stones from once from a boss regardless of difficulty. Is this true?

this expansions tiers will only look good on Orcs I feel.

#savage #lok'tar

 

[LAUGHTREY]

You didn't explicitly say it was okay, but you sure don't sound like you have a problem with it.

If you expect any sort of patience at all when you're in there fuckin up the group and making it wipe, I'm just saying don't be surprised when people aren't thanking you for the privilege.

 

[cdyhybrid]

If you expect any sort of patience at all when you're in there fuckin up the group and making it wipe, I'm just saying don't be surprised when people aren't thanking you for the privilege.

That's fine, let's just call it what it is

 

[Draxal]

That's fine, let's just call it what it is

I think I now know why all tanks in LFD are raging douchelords, or pure saints. Nobody else can deal with this shit.

edit. And only tanks, healers and dps get free passes most of the time.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think I now know why all tanks in LFD are raging douchelords, or pure saints. Nobody else can deal with this shit.

It's a bigger problem than just LFD, honestly.

The truth is that maybe 10% of the playerbase are actually good players, 20% are legitimately bad players (i.e. unwilling to learn how to improve), and the vast majority of the remaining 70% are people that think they're good, but are getting carried by the 10%.

I was in a UBRS random heroic a few days ago and the only other person that was pulling their weight was the tank. The other two DPS were doing less than half my damage even though I typically only use cooldowns on bosses, they died to fire a lot, the healer really struggled...but I stuck it out and me and the tank ended up killing Zaela by ourselves from 40% health left, because the other 3 were dead.

Honestly, if you're actually good enough that your time is too valuable to be wasted with inexperienced players, you should be good enough to carry the group regardless.

 

[SuperDowns]

Ehhh, his attitude seemed, to me, to be a "but we're so special why aren't people being nice to us when we suck and instead calling us out?"

I play with my SO, and yes, it's true, I get much more prickly when people call him out, especially when they are wrong. But, there's a difference between wishing people would be more civil, and going on a forum and complaining about how OTHER people are on a moral high horse, and how poor little me I just don't get the game I'm not new why are people not being nice about me failing?

Either way, he could "solve" the problem by a) not contributing to it / not being mean, or b) learning how to actually play correctly. Personal responsibility and all. Sure, there will always be dickheads [see my rage-y post in here awhile back about some rogue that pissed me off in LFG], but if you smell shit everywhere you go, check your own shoe.

OH man, have you got plenty of ideas and a need to express them. Look I am in fact okay with people calling out fuck ups. It happens all the time. It is not cool when people spew out "l2p" or "bad" in an effort to browbeat someone out of the LFD system.

 

[TatteredHat]

Anyways, there's something that I'm curious about. I did LFR and Heroic, yet I got no stones due to the fact that I killed the 6 bosses on normal. A guildie told me that I can only get stones from once from a boss regardless of difficulty. Is this true?

Yeah, it's one boss per week regardless of difficulty. There's no difference in droprate either, LFR Kargath has the same stone droprate as Heroic Kargath.

 

[Draxal]

Ehhh, his attitude seemed, to me, to be a "but we're so special why aren't people being nice to us when we suck and instead calling us out?"

I play with my SO, and yes, it's true, I get much more prickly when people call him out, especially when they are wrong. But, there's a difference between wishing people would be more civil, and going on a forum and complaining about how OTHER people are on a moral high horse, and how poor little me I just don't get the game I'm not new why are people not being nice about me failing?

Either way, he could "solve" the problem by a) not contributing to it / not being mean, or b) learning how to actually play correctly. Personal responsibility and all. Sure, there will always be dickheads [see my rage-y post in here awhile back about some rogue that pissed me off in LFG], but if you smell shit everywhere you go, check your own shoe.

I can be alt tabbed and doing zero dps and standing fire and calling you out as the worst fucking healer in the world, so being good or bad so I really think point B has nothing to do with it.

And I don't think he and his wife just got called out, they probably also suffered from some serious verbal harassment, people don't make rage posts like that unless they are really pissed off.

It's a bigger problem than just LFD, honestly.

The truth is that maybe 10% of the playerbase are actually good players, 20% are legitimately bad players (i.e. unwilling to learn how to improve), and the vast majority of the remaining 70% are people that think they're good, but are getting carried by the 10%.

I was in a UBRS random heroic a few days ago and the only other person that was pulling their weight was the tank. The other two DPS were doing less than half my damage even though I typically only use cooldowns on bosses, they died to fire a lot, the healer really struggled...but I stuck it out and me and the tank ended up killing Zaela by ourselves from 40% health left, because the other 3 were dead.

Honestly, if you're actually good enough that your time is too valuable to be wasted with inexperienced players, you should be good enough to carry the group regardless.

QFT

 

[cdyhybrid]

He admitted himself he doesn't know the mechanics and his wife doesn't either.

How is that not him not knowing how to play?

& yeah, if you did that.. I'd laugh at you, then refuse to heal you. It's simple. If I know that I'm doing it right and you're fucking up, but you're the one bitching, then... who cares? In this case, he's the one fucking up but bitching that... other people are calling him and his wife out for it.

Also, lol @ your optimism. WoW forums are FULL of people raging/being pissed off... for no good reason other than that they themselves can't read/want everything handed to them like LFR. From the way he's responded to a whole bunch of people telling him he's in the wrong, I can probably guess why he's getting so much hate.

That's why most of us advised him that as the tank, it's part of his responsibility to at least have a basic understanding of the encounter, or at the very minimum let people know you haven't done it before so they can teach you.

Still doesn't excuse the venom being spewed by a lot of the players.

 

[Draxal]

He admitted himself he doesn't know the mechanics and his wife doesn't either.

How is that not him not knowing how to play?

& yeah, if you did that.. I'd laugh at you, then refuse to heal you. It's simple. If I know that I'm doing it right and you're fucking up, but you're the one bitching, then... who cares? In this case, he's the one fucking up but bitching that... other people are calling him and his wife out for it.

Also, lol @ your optimism. WoW forums are FULL of people raging/being pissed off... for no good reason other than that they themselves can't read/want everything handed to them like LFR. From the way he's responded to a whole bunch of people telling him he's in the wrong, I can probably guess why he's getting so much hate.

So you're okay with harassment and laugh it off that's fine. Other people aren't, and it's something that's not good for this game.

That's why most of us advised him that as the tank, it's part of his responsibility to at least have a basic understanding of the encounter, or at the very minimum let people know you haven't done it before so they can teach you.

Still doesn't excuse the venom being spewed by a lot of the players.

Or for his case, if they got a thin skin work on joining a guild. And the game doesn't actually do a good job of teaching it until proving grounds in MoP which is decent but not enough.

 

[Draxal]

Yes. It is his understanding, as the healer, to know what to watch out for as ranged. It is also his wife's responsibility, as a tank, to understand what to do.

I don't find "l2play" or "lol you suck" to be venomous. If it gets really bad, though, there's always the /rightclickignoreplayer function.



Harassment?

Harassment is when someone is salty about your progression, blames it on your gender, and then takes pictures of your kid's elementary school and sends it to you.

Harassment is when someone hacks your phone and starts spoofing calls to you from your boyfriend's number.

Harassment is not when someone says "lol you suck l2play kthx" when you are fucking up. At least, I hardly think that's "harassment." It's just someone not being nice about you sucking at what you're doing.

It's fine to suck at stuff. Are we seriously attempting to give trophies to everyone for being able to log into a game? I thought that's what Timeless Isle and LFR were for...

Blizzard Tos.

Harassment or Defamation
Insulting other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people in-game and externally.
Note: Ongoing harassment will lead to more severe penalties.

It's a minor violation as Blizzard realizes most people don't realize they're harassing people. Obviously you are specifying much more serious ongoing harrassment/stalking/ etc etc.

 

[cdyhybrid]

It's not even about people's feelings, honestly. It's better for the game if you help these people get better instead of just bashing them.

More good players means a better experience for everyone.

 

[eudaemonic]

Those are my favorite ones ;_;

Wish they'd bring these back.

They did... on my follower. :/

 

[Draxal]

It's not even about people's feelings, honestly. It's better for the game if you help these people get better instead of just bashing them.

More good players means a better experience for everyone.

Yes and no. I have no need to do lfr/lfd as I'm strictly an Ashran hero atm.

I'm guilty of the past of doing an /emote thinks you are bad. in the past I wanna say in Dal or Shattrah. A 13 year old kid thought I was talking about him and was really upset and hurt about it and I had about a 15 minute minute convo with him, and some of this shit these people are going through. You don't know the situations these players are in, some are in awful shape.

 

[Blu10]

From someone who main'd a tank for years in progression for years, having just come back, leveling them up, I skipped all dungeons and went quest only. Still haven't ( now that I've hit 100) stepped foot in a dungeon or raid with him, even though I easily could from a gear perspective. It's too daunting. My life has changed since I have played, and so has the game.

I now would basically have to learn every single fight for lfg/lfr, so I started a dps.

I literally only have to worry about standing in bad stuff now. The difference is remarkable.

Calling him out for being"bad" is a disservice to both him and his SO. If I was the right faction, and server, I'd gladly join them.

The level of hate that is typically spewed by folks, that in all reality just want to be carried in this game is amazing. Especially considering the amount of stuff the tank needs to know offhand.

 

[B-Dubs]

From someone who main'd a tank for years in progression for years, having just come back, leveling them up, I skipped all dungeons and went quest only. Still haven't ( now that I've hit 100) stepped foot in a dungeon or raid with him, even though I easily could from a gear perspective. It's too daunting. My life has changed since I have played, and so has the game.

I now would basically have to learn every single fight for lfg/lfr, so I started a dps.

I literally only have to worry about standing in bad stuff now. The difference is remarkable.

Calling him out for being"bad" is a disservice to both him and his SO. If I was the right faction, and server, I'd gladly join them.

The level of hate that is typically spewed by folks, that in all reality just want to be carried in this game is amazing. Especially considering the amount of stuff the tank needs to know offhand.

Pretty much. Tanks are expected to know pretty much every aspect of every fight and everyone's favorite way of cheesing the fight even if it's some obscure thing that literally no one does. Seriously, I had a dps rage quit on me the other week because I didn't know some overly complicated cheese strat that I had literally never heard of before. We're also required to interrupt, because no one else will, and manage the healer's mana despite that not actually being our job, if you need to drink then say so. Then there's the times you get stuck with shitty heals and dps, who don't care to learn or even try, and are expected to carry them through an instance.

It's a lot of shit to know and you're absolutely right that people just want to be carried. If someone's willing to learn then I'm more than willing to slow down a bit to help them out, it just makes the game better for everyone that way. It has been that way since vanilla when I would set up PUG MC runs in the vain hope my second binding would drop, those that were willing to learn kept coming back and eventually went off to raiding guilds and those that didn't, didn't.

Out of curiosity, what do tanks need to know? The way I hear about it... keep aggro, face the boss in the right direction, move him correctly when needed, don't stand in shit, use defensive cool downs.

DPS - don't stand in shit, interrupt, dps the right things, do the mechanics (clicking things, running around the room, moving to the right location, etc)

Healer - keep everyone alive.

Healing feels like the easiest job TBH. I tried raiding/dungeoning as shadow and QQ it was so much harder.

Asking this since I actually am curious about tanking someday on my pally. After I learn how her skills work, that is..

DPS will hardly, if ever, interrupt. If you want a spell interrupted then you've got to do it yourself. You're also the de-facto leader so you've got to know the fight and all the tricks so you can explain it. The tank's job is basically to make sure the group runs ok, you're usually in-charge.

Also DPS will hardly ever move out of shit, so the healers wind up having a much harder job than they should. Honestly, I consider myself lucky if the DPS remembers their rotations let alone anything else.

 

[Draxal]

But that's... not your fault. That's not stuff you actually are supposed to know for your class. That's stuff you are learning in order to compensate for other people not knowing their class.

There's a difference between not knowing a fight/mechanics, and not being able to carry everyone else.

There's also a middle ground, in which you know your own mechanics and can do those correctly. If other people fuck it up.. that's not you needing to know how to tank.

This is the expectation level of a tank in modern wow, especially in lfd. They get blamed for everything.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Out of curiosity, what do tanks need to know? The way I hear about it... keep aggro, face the boss in the right direction, move him correctly when needed, don't stand in shit, use defensive cool downs.

DPS - don't stand in shit, interrupt, dps the right things, do the mechanics (clicking things, running around the room, moving to the right location, etc)

Healer - keep everyone alive.

Healing feels like the easiest job TBH. I tried raiding/dungeoning as shadow and QQ it was so much harder.

Asking this since I actually am curious about tanking someday on my pally. After I learn how her skills work, that is..

The good tanks (essentially, the ones that can carry a group) need to know everyone's role and everything they need to do for each fight.

Tanks are the de facto leaders of the group, so you need to let healers know if there's a buff they need to dispel, and know what the healer's mana is at so you don't pull too quickly for them. You need to set the kill order if the DPS doesn't know it, including marking mobs/areas. You need to keep the mobs from killing DPS if it's avoidable (i.e. not getting the group cleaved/breathed on). You need to watch for tunnel-vision DPS or healers accidentally proximity agroing mobs as they're jumping in circles because they have ADHD.

All this while also doing significant damage through proper execution of your rotation, while also keeping yourself alive with active mitigation (also through proper execution of your rotation). Plus, you need to watch your HP so you know when you use emergency cooldowns.

Nothing prevents healers or DPS from assuming a lot of these responsibilities, such as setting kill orders or explaining mechanics, but the honest truth is that most the time the DPS isn't going to do it, and neither will the healer to a lesser extent.

 

[B-Dubs]

This is the expectation level of a tank in modern wow, especially in lfd. They get blamed for everything.

Modern? That's been the expectation since vanilla! The only difference now is we aren't struggling with abilities that don't cover the situations we're expected to handle.

 

[Draxal]

Modern? That's been the expectation since vanilla! The only difference now is we aren't struggling with abilities that don't cover the situations we're expected to handle.

I think this is the result of the cc change as that shifted more responsibility to dps back in the day, but it was too hard to coordinate cc in lfd so thus removed.

Threat was an issue as well, you could also blame bad dps for pulling threat (Hi uber geared Vanilla fury warriors) where you can't do it now.

I remember back in a heroic MT where I had to cc 3 mobs on my lock (banish/fear/succubus seduce).

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think this is the result of the cc change as that shifted more responsibility to dps back in the day, but it was too hard to coordinate cc in lfd so thus removed.

Threat was an issue as well, you could also blame bad dps for pulling threat (Hi uber geared Vanilla fury warriors) where you can't do it now.

I remember back in a heroic MT where I had to cc 3 mobs on my lock (banish/fear/succubus seduce).

I played a Warlock in vanilla as well, so I remember it well.

I also played a Combat daggers Rogue, so literally all I could do was a shitload of damage to a mob someone else was tanking. Pulled agro off so many shitty tanks...

 

[Draxal]

I played a Warlock in vanilla as well, so I remember it well.

I also played a Combat daggers Rogue, so literally all I could do was a shitload of damage to a mob someone else was tanking. Pulled agro off so many shitty tanks...

Probably screaming at you for lacking to feint, and you just got unlucky with sword spec/windfury procs.

Don't think you had salv back then until some later patch (C'thun time?) so it was really double edged for horde compared to alliance.

 

[B-Dubs]

I think this is the result of the cc change as that shifted more responsibility to dps back in the day, but it was too hard to coordinate cc in lfd so thus removed.

Threat was an issue as well, you could also blame bad dps for pulling threat (Hi uber geared Vanilla fury warriors) where you can't do it now.

I remember back in a heroic MT where I had to cc 3 mobs on my lock (banish/fear/succubus seduce).

I always loved bringing locks along for just that reason, they were always so much more responsible than other classes. Probably because of all the different CC abilities and stuff like life tap. I can tell you though, even with CC after the sheeps were out on a pull a lot of DPS stopped paying attention to anything but their numbers. Then there was stuff like not all rogues taking that talent that let them keep stealth after a sap or people dpsing CC'ed targets. Shit man, the stories I could tell.

You're right that it does feel like it got worse after lfd was introduced, but part of me thinks that's more about bad players not being avoided as much. Sure you could avoid the shitty guys on your server though experience and word of mouth, but on someone else's server? Good luck!

 

[cdyhybrid]

Probably screaming at you for lacking to feint, and you just got unlucky with sword spec/windfury procs.

Don't think you had salv back then until some later patch (C'thun time?) so it was really double edged for horde compared to alliance.

I would hold back for the first 10 seconds of the pull, use Feint on cooldown, and Vanish on cooldown to reset my agro.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Probably screaming at you for lacking to feint, and you just got unlucky with sword spec/windfury procs.

Don't think you had salv back then until some later patch (C'thun time?) so it was really double edged for horde compared to alliance.

Tanks had a hell of a time holding threat until Wrath due to BS like parry haste, threat-drop mechanics and randomly targeted mind controls, to say nothing of rage starvation and needing hit and expertise to even hit bosses. It wasn't hard at all to pull threat attacking from behind the boss with an effective crit rate approaching 45%.

 

[Blu10]

Really you need to know every fight backward and forward, as well as every path through the individual dungeons. You lead the group, so you are expected to be know and be able to answer any any questions. From leveling up my dps, it is apparent that if you don't know what path to take, or miss a cool down, you'll be immediately insulted.

Really, to be an effective tank, you need to thoroughly understand ever fight (backward and forward), be able to give constructive criticism, and realize your own failings so you can correct them

Although you, could just as easily learn the layouts, and paths through the dungeons, and raids, and call everyone else "bad" when you eventually wipe.