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davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Eh, it's cheap and fast content for them. I severely doubt it would mean "less dungeons" -- just a diversification of existing content by making previous ones viable again.
I wonder if they'll only have the selection or if they'll keep expanding on that list
They're using it as a bonus holiday sort of thing to make people show up and play on those weekends. The events will probably make more people log on overall since you can't just do it whenever you want
I wonder if they'll only have the selection or if they'll keep expanding on that list
They're using it as a bonus holiday sort of thing to make people show up and play on those weekends. The events will probably make more people log on overall since you can't just do it whenever you want
People have literally been asking for it for YEARS.
For most of the playerbase these dungeons might as well be new, at that. I bet not even 50% of us in this thread ever did those BC heroics as current content.
Robin64
Member
Thing is, I've seen people complain before (and been in the situation where) because they are working the weekend or out or something, and they play mostly in the week. So for a bonus thing, like extra honor in battlegrounds, it's not too bad. But for an entire feature, it doesn't sit well with me.
The intent is nice, though, and I'd like to see what the other events alluded to are.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Seems more like a bonus, still. The gear isn't going to be better than what you can get otherwise it'll just be "usable"
They probably also don't want people spending a lot of time in them anyway, so it makes sense to me. It'll be annoying for achievements.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
They're doing them only on the weekend so the playerbase is concentrated into them, and not spread out over Normal/Heroic/Challenge Mode/Mythic and now Timewalker. I imagine very quickly the novelty will wear off, and people will be sick of doing those old dungeons for the 500th time. I'm not excited for doing the dungeons I already do while leveling up/when they were max level content.
They won't be hard or take much time at all. You can pretty much solo it on certain classes while at that actual level, and they're even letting us keep our level 100 talents and abilities. Besides the strats should also be well known, shouldn't have too many groups of people who all don't know the fights.
It was late Wotlk they introduced the dungeon finder, not early BC. It was introduced with the ICC heroics. Realm cultures are extinct now that cross realm and realm transfers have totally ruined faction balance and any semblance of community on your own server. People don't even bother making friends anymore because everyone is so disposable it doesn't matter.
Garrisons have made WoW into facebook game: The expansion. It's the same exact problem as dungeon finder except even worse since we're not in a city together anymore even, we're all in our own phase. They probably won't do that again, especially with the commander of the Alliance/Horde forces thing. I really hate being the super-hero of the game, I liked it better when we we're 'generic folk hero X'. Now we're godkillers.
They won't be hard or take much time at all. You can pretty much solo it on certain classes while at that actual level, and they're even letting us keep our level 100 talents and abilities. Besides the strats should also be well known, shouldn't have too many groups of people who all don't know the fights.
It was late Wotlk they introduced the dungeon finder, not early BC. It was introduced with the ICC heroics. Realm cultures are extinct now that cross realm and realm transfers have totally ruined faction balance and any semblance of community on your own server. People don't even bother making friends anymore because everyone is so disposable it doesn't matter.
Garrisons have made WoW into facebook game: The expansion. It's the same exact problem as dungeon finder except even worse since we're not in a city together anymore even, we're all in our own phase. They probably won't do that again, especially with the commander of the Alliance/Horde forces thing. I really hate being the super-hero of the game, I liked it better when we we're 'generic folk hero X'. Now we're godkillers.
I'll take those over vanilla LBRS, Mara or ST anyday lol.
I heard Cataclysm heroics were insane though, has any GAFer done those back in the 85s?
Acidote
Member
I did them pre nerf as many others here. BC heroics were way harder.
I can still remember my first heroic Shadow Labyrinth like it was yesterday.
It lasted 6 hours.
But it was fun.
Cataclysm heroics were meh except for some bosses.
Absolutely. I still have really fond memories of BC-era heroics - Cata heroics were a step(or three) up from WotLK, but didn't live up to the hype at all.
People have too much nostalgia for the TBC heroics, they weren't that hard, especially compared to Cata launch heroics. Like Shadow Labs, really? Murmur was literally the only boss in there with mechanics. The first boss spit acid on you and feared party members and the second boss mind controlled the entire party occasionally, that was it. TBC heroics were "hard" because there was a lot of trash and it was poorly designed. Cata dungeons were hard because each boss had mechanics that all 5 players actually had to participate in and blizzard got really happy with soft enrages on bosses which meant your DPS couldn't suck.
I find it hard to even consider it an argument, all you have to do is go back and look through the dungeon journal for TBC and remember how simplistic the game was back then. That was still the WoW where most classes had 1 or 2 button rotations. I mean the hunter class at that point was literally all about putting your entire rotation inside a macro and spamming it.
Simpler bosses, simpler class design. Mechanically TBC heroics just don't hold a candle to Cata ones.
I find it hard to even consider it an argument, all you have to do is go back and look through the dungeon journal for TBC and remember how simplistic the game was back then. That was still the WoW where most classes had 1 or 2 button rotations. I mean the hunter class at that point was literally all about putting your entire rotation inside a macro and spamming it.
Simpler bosses, simpler class design. Mechanically TBC heroics just don't hold a candle to Cata ones.
Cata heroics were hard, but they were fair. TBC heroics still had broken classes and at the start, 360 degree cleaves so melee wouldn't get invited.
Some major downplaying going on here.
For example, 3rd boss has add spawns, tank kiting, teleport->AOE, healer or tank banish, with the latter two interacting unhappily with adds mechanic.
I healed as resto druid, so no pug invites either because I didn't have CD-less resurrection.
Didn't really bother mentioning the third boss because he wasn't that special by modern standards. Murmur would actually still hold up in a modern heroic, warlock dude would not.
Exactly, TBC heroics were "hard" for all the wrong reasons. Cata heroics were hard because of the actual skill involved in playing your class and doing the boss mechanics. A lot of the difficulty of TBC was making sure you had the right group comp in a dungeon, that was more of an annoyance than a challenge.
I was actually glad I switched from rogue to shaman at the very start of TBC at the time. Like guys sap broke stealth when you used it unless you took talent points out of increased damage talents and put them into a crappy sap talent. That was a mechanic they thought good until 2.1, long past the life of heroic dungeons for anyone raiding. Not to mention sap is a bad CC in general because you can't reapply it in combat and you can't use it at all on packs that saw through stealth. Blehhhhh.
I feel like I remember TBC heroics fondly because a) I exclusively healed, and b) I played shaman. Healers are the role that gets the most gameplay from highly-tuned enemies, and shaman is pretty much the quintessential "5 man support" class. Cata dungeons were often far more mechanically involving, but still not on a level that would challenge raiding veterans. Overtuned mobs felt more entertaining at the time, I guess(except the trash pull before the final boss of Underbog - fuck those giants).
It's the guild mount IIRC. Horde gets a scorpion.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Hopefully if the reaction to timewalking is overwhelmingly positive and the playerbase demands it, they will drop that weekend nonsense. Gotta do arcatraz every day like the good lord (illidan) intended.
Ugh, WoW is just getting way too simple these days.
Works for me. Most of my guilds strats can be distilled to "stay alive until the boss dies" anyway.
Well I mean that's kind of the thing to me, it's not like the cata dungeons were light on their tuning either. Ridiculous amounts of avoidable one shot mechanics even on trash mobs alongside soft enrages which made healing really tight even with 3 strong dps. Like Ripsnarl when he got some stacks going of his buff, god the tank damage was so real.
I have to imagine this is some sort of test bed for the concept. It still seems really early based on PTR impressions. Like apparently it felt more like a leveling dungeon with everyone in heirlooms (trash and bosses died instantly). I think it would be really crazy if they eventually got every single dungeon in the game into it and you could run them any time, that'd be near 100 dungeons you could potentially queue for (counting separate wings of dungeons as their own dungeon since that is how the LFG tool does it).
Reminder: BlizzCon tickets are on sale tonight at 7 PM PDT / 10 PM EDT. - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/blizzcon-november-6-7-2015-tickets-15752495137
I'm going to try and get one.
I'm going to try and get one.
Maybe Cata just felt more manageable because resto shaman's healing kit was so much better by that point. Chain heal was OP in TBC, but that didn't do much in 5 mans, and shaman's really lacked otherwise from a healing perspective. At the same time, I still consider early Cataclysm to be where resto shaman peaked(from a design perspective as opposed to a balance one).
I do remember some of the Cata 5 man achievements being really tough for sure.
RoninChaos
Member
This is what made me quit a few months ago. Garrisons effectively make most of what you do a single player, isolating experience. For as much as blizzard talked about trying to get people out into the world, the garrison mechanic kept you in one place. I remember discussing it with some people, might have been here, and no one said they felt the way I did. That's obviously changed. The fact that the garrisons are basically a chores list is very problematic. At least dailies got you out into the world.
I also am really turned off by the continue removal of things since SOO. I feel like they were trying to appeal to the hardcore complainers who chew through content and quit as they're the main ones who complain. And if you look at it, despite all these things that were added to keep them happy, people are still leaving.
For me, the best way to sum it up is that this expansion was wholy underwhelming. Once again blizzard's actions always go two steps too far. When people said they didn't want a shit ton of daily walls like we had in MOP, at first they removed the reputation walls so people could play how they wanted. That was great. But with this expansion they took it one step further and just got rid of dailies and had you sit in your own little castle thing. The community in this game can be shit sometimes, but I'm still playing a massively multiplayer online role playing game. Not a single player game where I sometimes run into people in the world. Actively trying to keep me out of the world with the garrison thing really killed it for me.
And shit like this is baffling. It's them just making choices arbitrarily and then fucking up the follow through. You can't talk about immersion when the main activity of your day to day is sitting in an instanced area. You never cross into other zones, you can't really explore unless you have flight paths. I was less immersed in this expansion than I have been when I've been able to fucking fly!
This expansion feels like cataclysm to me but obviously with a strained set of resources. I think if they didn't have the people from Titan come back this expansion STILL wouldn't be out. The stuff we were promised came in either altered, late or we still haven't seen it. Interesting ideas but poorly executed. I don't care at all about alternate Draenor or anything in it. I was really tired of fighting garrosh and orcs only to have a completely new expansion with garrosh, his pops and more fucking orcs. Leveling was fun but that's really been it.
Also, ironically, I was more hyped for this expansion than I have been since Lich King. The stuff blizz did before hand, things like the stories of the clans and everything was FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC. Hell, the story telling while leveling was great. But combining that awesome stuff with shit like garrisons and making this expansion really unfriendly to alts, all while breaking professions and gathering (something I greatly enjoyed) just dragged me out of it. My wife raided hardcore for a bit and quit because the amount of other things to do just fell flat.
And Yanger, I don't know if you ever went blood but the changes they made to blood just pissed me off. I was curious if it was the same for you. It reminded me of the changes they made to warriors when BC hit. I had a blast on my warrior until BC. Death Knights have been my favorite class since they were introduced, and they really sucked all the fucking fun out of them for me.
Leveling is definitely one of the redeeming qualities of the expansion. It's pretty quick and easy and has a good flow to it.
Gameplay-wise I actually think it might be my favorite leveling experience. I really liked the whole outpost thing since it gave you a neat special ability in that zone. Some were more boring than others obviously but I liked how they mixed things up in each zone. Also personally enjoyed bonus objectives, I know early on a lot of people weren't too hot on Gorgrond but it was actually the zone I had the most fun in (not my favorite zone, but just again gameplay-wise the most fun). Tons of bonus objectives and the elite rare spawns that gave quest items lead me to just explore the zone at my own pace going wherever I wanted. Didn't really do the quests in the zone until I exhausted the other stuff there.
I'm assuming that, given when Titan was cancelled, the Titan team didn't have too much of an impact on this expansion, as it was probably already fully scoped out by that point. The real test is how quickly the next expansion hits, what its content level is like, how frequently it gets patches, and what the turnaround time between it and its following expansion is.
While I enjoyed leveling this expac, I still don't think any expansion has matched WotLK's pacing, quest design, zone design, art, music, and lore. I wonder if any of the concepts they can wheel out at this point will have the built in level of investment that expansion had.
While I enjoyed leveling this expac, I still don't think any expansion has matched WotLK's pacing, quest design, zone design, art, music, and lore. I wonder if any of the concepts they can wheel out at this point will have the built in level of investment that expansion had.
Timewalking sounds amazing. I am still really frustrated at the Brewmaster changes though 
trying not to think about my favorite spec being ripped apart mechanically and numerically.
LOL those placeholders crack me up.
trying not to think about my favorite spec being ripped apart mechanically and numerically.Ugh, WoW is just getting way too simple these days.
LOL those placeholders crack me up.
RPGCrazied
Member
You always go? lol Seems like. I might get the virtual ticket this year, depending on how much they are going to sell that goody bag.
HarryDemeanor
Member
I'm passing this year. Gotta save up right now.
RPGCrazied
Member
Yeah, then waiting another 6+ months for it to come out. I wish they weren't so freaking slow.
Look at Everquest, that game has like what, 20 expansions? lol
I actually liked having 2 year cycles for BC and Wrath. It gives you time to experience the expansion as a meaty era of the game. But that was because the content was paced so much better. When I came back for WoD I couldn't believe how long it had been since SoO came out. The same shit happened with Cata and it will probably happen again now.
Wrath and BC did a far better job with patches.
Wrath and BC did a far better job with patches.
Overall I'm happy with WoD.
Garrison chores don't feel any different to me than repetitive dailes like the Crusader's Colesium. Really don't care about the lack of flying. As a tank I like the mechanics of dungeons (movement / positioning) compared the MoP (more adds!). BRF is the best raid since Ulduar, and being able to raid normal/heroic mode without commiting to a schedule is awesome.
If I could make one change, it would be to make the war planning table in Ashran active. If I could manage followers from there I'd camp in Ashran and port back to my garrison once a day instead of holing up in my garrison like a hermit.
Garrison chores don't feel any different to me than repetitive dailes like the Crusader's Colesium. Really don't care about the lack of flying. As a tank I like the mechanics of dungeons (movement / positioning) compared the MoP (more adds!). BRF is the best raid since Ulduar, and being able to raid normal/heroic mode without commiting to a schedule is awesome.
If I could make one change, it would be to make the war planning table in Ashran active. If I could manage followers from there I'd camp in Ashran and port back to my garrison once a day instead of holing up in my garrison like a hermit.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Never played EverQuest but how much content did those expansions have back then compared to what they're coming out with now?
EQ only very recently even started having patch cycles. EQ had a ton of content in an expansion but back in the day it wasn't as 'designed' as wow stuff is, it's apples and oranges. Like, mechanically EQ is simplistic from a gameplay perspective, so you can make a bunch of nearly patchwerk style mobs slap em in a zone and just tune it for the appropriate gear. I imagine most of EQ's development cycle was artwork.
So an expansion every 6 months to a year was necessary becaues that expansion came with all of the content you were going to get, and it took that 6 months to consume it (longer for 99% of the game's population). In terms of sheer number of zones they pumped them out way faster than wow though.
And it has 21.
Nature of the themepark MMO though right? like, Blizz created this style of mmo basically, and they're the ones that have to live with it. Content consumption is faster and creation is longer (due to it needing to be a bit more in depth). EQ was much more deliberately paced and content was often gated by sheer numbers instead of mechanical complexity so their turnaround was much faster.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Imagine if they had decided to stick to the Ulduar style of hard-modes for every tier thereafter. Woulda been amazing, but have released at a glacially slow pace.
Well that's kinda cruddy. Numbers may be placeholder though.
Well that's kinda cruddy. Numbers may be placeholder though.
That has to change, it doesn't make much sense.
Welcome to patch 6.2! You only have 1k resources? Sucks to be you, but you gotta farm a lot of that if you want to play the new content.
Oh man, I've been out of the loop on WoW for a few months. When did 6.2, Hellfire Citadel, Mannoroth (!) and Archimonde (!!!) get announced! Also, great to see Tanaan finally happen.
I think I may actually resub to check this all out! Hoping for some catchup mechanisms as an LFR/Normal Raider that bailed in January, and never really sank my teeth into 6.1.
I think I may actually resub to check this all out! Hoping for some catchup mechanisms as an LFR/Normal Raider that bailed in January, and never really sank my teeth into 6.1.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Could be done day 1 if those numbers don't change and you stock 10k, full cache waiting and full work orders at a lumber yard/trading post.
But that would be crazy people talk. Those numbers gotta come down, gating a questing hub behind a huge currency grind is going to cause the playerbase to revolt.