I've literally never heard of anyone having this problem, I'm kinda with Laughtrey on this one :/ The map absolutely shows you where you need to go at the point that you're talking about.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I've literally never heard of anyone having this problem, I'm kinda with Laughtrey on this one :/ The map absolutely shows you where you need to go at the point that you're talking about.
Talador is somewhat cumbersome in its construction compared to some of the other Draenor zones, particularly around some of the awkwardly gated ogre areas, but I've never really felt absolutely impeded by terrain. In the case of Talador I guess you also just have a massive chunk of the landscape rendered somewhat inert as an Apexis farm zone around Shat, but quests are very clear with markers, and new chains are clearly denoted on the map if they are independent of any lead in (which Talador has to do because it's sort of sloppy). In the instance cited I can only imagine that guards around an enemy faction camp seemed imposing, but for most players these are also less imposing than they ever have been in the game's lifespan.
Talador does have some weird issues where you can pass up on quests as Horde side and lose the POI, but it shouldn't really happen or be that big of a deal as long as you just pick up what's presented to you. As a continent Draenor's crossroads all come together inside Talador, and the zone is sort of a victim to the last minute world design overhauls and locked/incomplete content as it borders Tanaan. Talador's connectors to Nagrand and Shadowmoon Valley also feel rather awkward, a problem that arises with POIs being stuffed in and around bleed channels between zones. Those have largely been deemphasized as players are taxied to zones through the hub of their Garrison.
I'm somewhat baffled as to how someone could have continued navigation troubles, or even find moving around the world to be unintuitive or frustrating though. In at level zones there are rarely if ever any enemies that are a threat, and WoW's immense line of sight leaves very few opportunities to wander into dead ends. Mobility is also rarely impeded with dismounts being fairly infrequent, with mob density only really increasing in quest zones that are rarely throughways.
Talador does have some weird issues where you can pass up on quests as Horde side and lose the POI, but it shouldn't really happen or be that big of a deal as long as you just pick up what's presented to you. As a continent Draenor's crossroads all come together inside Talador, and the zone is sort of a victim to the last minute world design overhauls and locked/incomplete content as it borders Tanaan. Talador's connectors to Nagrand and Shadowmoon Valley also feel rather awkward, a problem that arises with POIs being stuffed in and around bleed channels between zones. Those have largely been deemphasized as players are taxied to zones through the hub of their Garrison.
I'm somewhat baffled as to how someone could have continued navigation troubles, or even find moving around the world to be unintuitive or frustrating though. In at level zones there are rarely if ever any enemies that are a threat, and WoW's immense line of sight leaves very few opportunities to wander into dead ends. Mobility is also rarely impeded with dismounts being fairly infrequent, with mob density only really increasing in quest zones that are rarely throughways.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
you know, i dont really hear the complaints either. WoW is a different kind of game fundamentally from a game like Elder Scrolls or what have you.
just because they are "PC RPGs" doesn't really mean much.
I mean, you either learn it or you don't. It really isn't that hard when you get what's going on. maybe you don't like the questing structure, that's fine, but your definition of exploration is not the same definition of exploration in WoW.
as far as the random elite mobs, that's just telling you to not go there yet. That's part of the exploration aspect -- accidentally stumbling upon something you shouldn't have and have no business being around. the vanilla dragons were an example of that while they were still around.
and usually when you don't understand something about a game you can just google it or ask one of your friends who plays the game (or even us in the thread). its what we all do/did. there's no way to have all of the info about the game explained in a concise manner since there are so many diverse and particular aspects to the game.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
It's interesting how you guys have never experienced these things with WoW, because I have also never experienced them... in any game I have ever played until WoW.
As for the guys that killed me, I went back to this spot and they are Vindicators with almost half a million HP each, and guarding who? Fucking Maraad and Yrel, whom I just defeated the big baddie with. I guess we aren't friends anymore, and they are hanging out on a random ass patio next to Iron Horde trash mobs who are foresting. Because... that's what the cool kids do, I guess. Yeah, actually I guess you guys are right. The questing is really so rational and makes so much sense.
Yes, I think these aspects suck. That is all I have been saying, just expressing myself about how I feel about my experience, because that is what game discussion is. I even clearly said in my first post that I was mostly just venting about this one aspect. Nobody has to take a vent as an assault saying nobody should ever enjoy the experience. Clearly millions have. However, I don't see how it can even be debated that the world design is incredibly obstructive compared to other games.
As for the guys that killed me, I went back to this spot and they are Vindicators with almost half a million HP each, and guarding who? Fucking Maraad and Yrel, whom I just defeated the big baddie with. I guess we aren't friends anymore, and they are hanging out on a random ass patio next to Iron Horde trash mobs who are foresting. Because... that's what the cool kids do, I guess. Yeah, actually I guess you guys are right. The questing is really so rational and makes so much sense.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
It did not ever show this special one and explain that it meant the normal dude was going to be 10x harder than any elite boss I ever faced except Gom. It only showed the borders for elite/named mobs. I can only assume that it is serving some kind of PvP (I have never touched this part of the game) zoning purpose, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever on a server that is not PvP with a story where both sides are cooperating and mixed camps do exist. As I explained, this resulted in me getting killed by the henchmen of the characters I had just defeated a boss with (not that I realized it at the time, too busy dying in 10 seconds). That's stupid.
Oh on one character I did 3 hours of just trying to reach one place in the barrens because of the stupid endless mountains and map that did not signify where the pass was at all. It sure was a whole lot of fun "exploring" that endless wall of "mountains" walking in a straight line. Finding an appropriate crossing for the massive gorge left by the cataclysm was also a lot of "fun exploring."
hellmonkey
Member
Do you have mob levels and/or HP turned on? Everyone zone in WoD has level 100s areas, you probably wandered into one of those. Also, every zone has group/raid level boss that cannot be solo'd, at least until you hit upper gear levels, and that is one a few. Some bosses still require 20+ geared 100s.
Gold dragon border is generic elite. It hits harder and has more HP, but that's it. Silver dragons are "rare" elites that drop much better loot. In WoD, m any of these rares only give the good loot on the first kill. You really shouldn't have boosted from 30-90, especially ive you've never spent time at max level on any character in WoWs history. There is a lot of mechanics that you learn while leveling from 1-60+. You should probably also refrain from mods until you learn the base game. It sounds like a mod or two might be getting in the way with relaying information to you that the base UI clearly shows.
If you have your heart set on a leveling mod, Carbonite is excellent for that. It is the ultimate handholding mod. If I turned it on, my 5 year old could play Wow. The only other mods I would recommend for a new player are Postal, Master Plan, and Gather Mate + Gather Mate data (or handy notes or some other add on that shows stuff on the map) data.
Sax Russel
Banned
...
Gentleman Jack
Member
I did at one point in my levelling from 90-100 try to fight one of the elite Gronns in Gorgrond, since at that point of the game you are taught to fight gold elites for your outpost progress, but when he flattened me I realized immediately the fight was hopeless and moved on. I haven't gone back to fight him since but that's more me realizing he doesn't drop anything useful and only exists for flavor. It's a pity they just made him Fel Reaver mk. IV and not have both flavor and function in the mobs that just stomp you in the wild. At least the Fel Reaver came into play when you needed a Shattered Halls key.
Is it bad design? Kinda. WoW has trained me to expect useless, dangerous mobs in the wild (Fel Reaver/Storm Giant/Whale Shark) and I'm used to it, but I think they could do so much more.
Is it bad design? Kinda. WoW has trained me to expect useless, dangerous mobs in the wild (Fel Reaver/Storm Giant/Whale Shark) and I'm used to it, but I think they could do so much more.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Postal has an 'open all' feature.
I don't know if there's a mail addon that gets around the paginated inbox.
JSoup
Banned
I clicked "open all", it opened everything, then asked me to wait a moment while it refreshes and get the next batch.
This is a good add-on, thank you.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Your inbox has a hard limit of 50 items in it at once. It can't fetch data more than once every 60 seconds and no addon can get around that. If you have more than 50 things you have to wait 60 seconds between opens. Postal sometimes fails to fetch everything but I haven't found another mail addon quite as convenient.
hellmonkey
Member
I had no idea about this. Y'all must be some hardcore WoW drug dealers or something to have that much mail at once.
JSoup
Banned
I know. I was commenting on how the add-on runs itself, didn't need me to click "open all" again. It just waits for the refresh and keeps on trucking. I like that.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Having strong inbox management is crucial to an efficient auction house game. Knowing the limits just comes with the territory
RoninChaos
Member
WoD's ground layout is AWFUL. Pandaria was superb. WoD doesn't really feel coherent in the way that previous expansions have. Did you just boost straight to 90?
Enosh
Member
hah
log in today see I have new mail, wonder what the hell that is about since I'm too lazy to deal with the AH, look and check some random "jghn" message from someone unknown nick name I was stupid enough to not write down
open it up... some 19k worth of gold
well did not see that one coming, don't know any friend quitting the game atm so no idea who it's from, like said was stupid enough to not write it down and check, might have just been a miss send, my nick name is Árýa and I'm sure there is plenty of Arya, Árya, Ärýa or whatever else on the server
if it is a miss send, would GMs take it away from me if the guy/girl asks for it back? I know it's a scumbag thing to do but (incoming rationalization) I'm not exactly rich and well, not my fault, so unless it's a guildie/friend I'm not sure I'd give it back...
log in today see I have new mail, wonder what the hell that is about since I'm too lazy to deal with the AH, look and check some random "jghn" message from someone unknown nick name I was stupid enough to not write down
open it up... some 19k worth of gold
well did not see that one coming, don't know any friend quitting the game atm so no idea who it's from, like said was stupid enough to not write it down and check, might have just been a miss send, my nick name is Árýa and I'm sure there is plenty of Arya, Árya, Ärýa or whatever else on the server
if it is a miss send, would GMs take it away from me if the guy/girl asks for it back? I know it's a scumbag thing to do but (incoming rationalization) I'm not exactly rich and well, not my fault, so unless it's a guildie/friend I'm not sure I'd give it back...
It is possible but very unlikely, also if it is a random name like that it is probably not someone who is going to contact the GMs.
Gentleman Jack
Member
19k gold isn't very much. You're not bankrupting someone by not tracking down who sent it to return it.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm pretty sure this is a meeting spot for alliance people with the main characters, hence the PvP level obliteration even though they were only 94. However, as I said, that is stupid because in my storyline I am friends with those characters, too. And it is tucked around a corner from a mountain path and a massive tree, so I ran in range of the henchmen without knowing. Maybe a bit careless mount running, but the whole massive area all around it in every direction is level 94 trash mobs unless you wander into a cave with a skull on the map, so I thought it was safe. It's completely different from running into an alliance fort or something. That shit shouldn't be on a PvE server at all anyway, at least not in Draenor where everyone is cooperating.
I don't have the money to keep a sub going (not wisely anyway) now so I don't have the time to go through slowly like I was going to originally. I saved some money elsewhere so I bought one month to actually play the WoD content that I paid for at launch and maybe get gold farm going well enough to get the token train going. It's not my fault if they design the game to jump in at WoD and then suck ass at properly explaining everything when you actually do so.
It's not. It's just dugi essentials which is the most highly recommended mod I could find. All the essentials does really is point you to what you want and tell you how far it is, recommends a flight if it'd be faster. I turned off some shit it does like auto grab and auto equip, and you still have to figure out yourself how to get around stuff, but otherwise it is nothing but helpful.
I played to 20-30 in the areas of several races. I think the Dwarves is probably the best, although the Worgen opener chain was awesome but then you leave completely. I never played Pandaria but I spent a while flying over it to get a look and it did seem pretty good. A lot of insane mountains, too, but at least at 85 you'd be flying around the place.
Again, I haven't had the kind of troubles I've had with this game in my entire life of gaming. Maybe it is uncommon to have this shitty of an experience, or maybe you guys lucked out, I don't know. I just know that the nature of this experience navigating the world has been uniquely terrible with WoW and definitely the worst in any RPG I've played, which is a whole fucking lot of RPGs in the last 20 years. If being MMO is an excuse, I'm forced to wonder why other MMOs were so much better for me in these aspects. Also, nothing else has been troublesome. The game has been lovely otherwise, even maybe the best MMO out there.
hellmonkey
Member
Having strong inbox management is crucial to an efficient auction house game. Knowing the limits just comes with the territory
I wish I had time to be an AH flipper. Im sure I could easily add a 0 to the 415k gold I have right now. Other than mounts and game time, theres nothing else Id buy though. I don't mind dropping 10k on a few pieces for a fresh 100, but im not going to spend 50-100k a piece for armor/weapons.
I think you're just used to playing MMOs with more guided questing. Like, there is literally an arrow in the middle of the screen directing you to the next quest objective in half the MMOs you described.
WoD and, to some extent, MoP both use non-linear questing. That just means that a zone might have 6 different quest hubs and instead of being led from 1 to 2 to 3, you are free to do them in whatever order you want and in some cases need to explore them yourself.
It's a little less new-player-friendly than the 1-60 stuff, but is greatly appreciated by existing players because it makes the quest experience more interesting. Rather than following rails, the game encourages a *slight* amount of exploration in the later expansions.
This is still *immensely* more player-friendly than any quest design for the first ~6 years of the game's lifespan, and is still very easy for most people to grasp, which is why people are having problems taking your complaint seriously. You could always start a new character and get used to the quest flow from 1-90 before diving into WoD content. It goes fast.
WoD and, to some extent, MoP both use non-linear questing. That just means that a zone might have 6 different quest hubs and instead of being led from 1 to 2 to 3, you are free to do them in whatever order you want and in some cases need to explore them yourself.
It's a little less new-player-friendly than the 1-60 stuff, but is greatly appreciated by existing players because it makes the quest experience more interesting. Rather than following rails, the game encourages a *slight* amount of exploration in the later expansions.
This is still *immensely* more player-friendly than any quest design for the first ~6 years of the game's lifespan, and is still very easy for most people to grasp, which is why people are having problems taking your complaint seriously. You could always start a new character and get used to the quest flow from 1-90 before diving into WoD content. It goes fast.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
You can /reloadUI to get around the mail time limit, but of course it counts as a new session, so if you're tracking gold or something that can mess up your data.
hellmonkey
Member
Were you in shadowmoon valley? I haven't come across any Alliance only camps in any other part of Dreanor. Blizz puts extra tough NPC guards in its starting area to help prevent griefing. Those NPCs have a crazy range and really high damage. Back in TBC, if you flew even close to other factions camps, you would get sniped out of the sky from a crazy distance.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Yeah Auctioneer does not like it when you reloadUI
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
No.
Well through this process I have come to learn that there is Fort Wrynn, which is appropriately tucked away from anything else and walled up and dressed in Alliance banners, and then there is this random open camp I ran across next to the Iron Siegeworks tree cutting area, and it looks exactly like any other Draenei camp I had been freely interacting with the entire time, and even had my two "friends" inside of it, whom I had just finished a major story arc with.
Make sense... on a PvP server... in a realm that does not have cooperation between the factions as the established context.
Yes, and I'm not a dumbass and perfectly understand that, which is why I have explained many times now that I have no problem understanding what points I need to get to or reading a map. My problems are 100% the actual physical design of the world, which is supremely annoying to navigate compared to other games. My comment about a trail on the ground was purely in context to absurd winding paths and mountain-walled realms except for the one specific way (not indiscernible on the map even when you're standing on it) that will let you over to where you want to be.
Looking at another genre, it's kind of like comparing GTA to Sleeping Dogs. The latter just blows ass for getting to where you want to be, with endless pointless blockades that easily could have allowed alleyways or whatever. And still there are some like Saint's Row that give you total transport freedom, where maybe you lose something in your learning of the map and exploration, but the convenience when the quests start stacking high is quite nice.
What the fuck, that last page.
Dice, you should calm down. You're in a thread devoted to WoW, complaining about some of the core concepts of the game. Sure that's fine, but you're continuing to argue and trying to convince veteran players that the experiences they've had over years is not right.
Just stop, and go play a different game.
Dice, you should calm down. You're in a thread devoted to WoW, complaining about some of the core concepts of the game. Sure that's fine, but you're continuing to argue and trying to convince veteran players that the experiences they've had over years is not right.
Just stop, and go play a different game.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Off the top of my head I can think of several 'why is this travel path so fucked' moments in WoD.
The area directly west of the Alliance Garrison in Shadowmoon is a mess. Some parts phase you back into your garrison, causing mobs to vanish and reappear as you head back to the northwestern coast.
Traversing Northern Frostfire east to west is a goddamn nightmare. Literally impassible despite being able to ride quite far into what is otherwise a dead end. You have to double back and ride around a mountain or several crevasses to get around sensibly and the map is zero help.
Spires of Arak. The first time I tried to get to Skettis proper for the Apexis grind I got lost and spent 30 minutes looking for one ramp that wasn't blocked off by a wall.
Gorgrond: Getting pushed into combat because you passed hostile npcs that fight each other is never fun, and there are minimum three spots this will always happen as you level through the zone because they clog up chokepoints. This is horrible, and getting out of combat is a chore for classes that can't simply press Invis or Vanish.
It's not the worst possible zone flow they've ever built (sup Blade's Edge Mountains, sup most of Vanilla Kalimdor) but it is the sort of thing you scratch your head about because you know there had to be complaints about it during alpha/closed beta/open beta.
The area directly west of the Alliance Garrison in Shadowmoon is a mess. Some parts phase you back into your garrison, causing mobs to vanish and reappear as you head back to the northwestern coast.
Traversing Northern Frostfire east to west is a goddamn nightmare. Literally impassible despite being able to ride quite far into what is otherwise a dead end. You have to double back and ride around a mountain or several crevasses to get around sensibly and the map is zero help.
Spires of Arak. The first time I tried to get to Skettis proper for the Apexis grind I got lost and spent 30 minutes looking for one ramp that wasn't blocked off by a wall.
Gorgrond: Getting pushed into combat because you passed hostile npcs that fight each other is never fun, and there are minimum three spots this will always happen as you level through the zone because they clog up chokepoints. This is horrible, and getting out of combat is a chore for classes that can't simply press Invis or Vanish.
It's not the worst possible zone flow they've ever built (sup Blade's Edge Mountains, sup most of Vanilla Kalimdor) but it is the sort of thing you scratch your head about because you know there had to be complaints about it during alpha/closed beta/open beta.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I am calm. Now. I was frustrated and venting at first, but I said so.
No, I'm explaining the nature of my experience to some people who didn't seem to understand. Some new persons have come in and I explained to them as well with responses particular to the ideas they brought forward. If you are perceiving an agenda to convince everyone, you are reading that into things.
There are many things I like about this game more than any other MMO I have played. I also have a particular agenda to get a certain amount done with the month of it I bought, and completing the WoD content that I paid for. I don't think any dissenting opinions about any aspect of the game should be muted. There are certainly enough people on here bitching about PvP stuff I don't give a single fuck about, but I'm not telling them to go away and play something else. I don't partake in those discussions. If you don't want to discuss the issues about world traversal that I have raised, don't discuss them.
How much have you found this kind of stuff in other games? Because I haven't at all. Here-to-there was just never ever an issue unless it was specifically designed to be a puzzle like Hexen or trap like Dark Souls or something. That's what really leaves me wondering and at times frustrated if I just have one thing I want to get done before bed.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I do both. I'm also following E3. I'm pretty good at multitasking. I also tend to explain things in elaborate detail so there is no misunderstanding even though it often gets missed/ignored anyway and I have to explain things repeatedly. It's how I am on the internet with any topic so I'm used to it. ^_^
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
They have an explanation on how to play, it's called 'play the game 1-89'.
You boosted to 90 without ever getting there first.
It's like starting a game on insane difficulty then complaining about it being too hard. Maybe the onus is on them to restrict the level 90 boost until you've leveled a character there first, but maybe it's pretty obvious that when you start 90% of the way through leveling, you've jumped in the deep end, no matter what game you're playing.
Also I don't know why you refuse to believe it, but those leveling addons are not necessary and if anything are just making it worse, probably by removing crucial information or taking you on quests that you aren't ready for either. But whatever, keep shooting yourself in the foot. If you're having problems on what is essentially the tutorial for WoW you aren't going to do any better when you hit 100, I guarantee that.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
The physical design of the world has nothing to do with skill in the game. My complaint is not from any missions being too hard, it is from shit getting in my way. Even if I always knew the ways to go 100% of the time, it'd still be needlessly obstructive. I keep explaining myself over again because somehow this point is continually missed and some other narrative is repeatedly attempted to be forced on what I'm saying. If you want me to shut up about it, please stop acting like I am saying other stuff to make me look bad, or if that isn't what you're doing, please pay attention to what I am actually saying.
Me dying from those guys had nothing to do with skill (PvP area enforcers, which I have since discovered they were, are made to be unbeatable for anyone) and everything to do with their incredibly random placement on the corner of a crossroads from a twisting mountain path and giant tree blocking view, on a server where they aren't even relevant. It was part bad luck catching their agro along that path, sure, but also part bad design, and also one quick instance that is very minor to my main point about the overall experience of traversing the game world.
Because you are ignorant about the nature of it and assuming it is some sort of fast leveling overhaul thing. It is not an elaborate addon at all. All it does is look at what quests I have accepted, find the one physically closest to me (or the one I have manually selected), and tell me the fastest route as best as it can figure, which is a flight path if that is best first, and then the straight direction it is in.
This doesn't weave around mountains and shit for me, but it is very helpful in terms of picking flight destinations and making sure I don't get utterly turned around in twisty paths. It removes no information whatsoever. It is extremely highly regarded and trusted by tons of people. If it did shady shit, people would have called them out on it by now. It doesn't. It doesn't replace any features, and it doesn't advise anything except which armor to wear if you let it (I don't).
You're complaining about what is literally the most focus-tested, user-friendly MMO on the marketplace. I'm sorry you had to walk around a mountain to finish a quest or whatever, but maybe go play FFXIII instead of complaining about how confusing the quest content is an 11 year old MMO.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Sorry for trying to constructively respond to people who are ignoring what I'm saying and/or characterizing me in insulting ways based on a narrative of things I never complained about. Am I supposed to throw a reactive tantrum or let you guys openly mock me instead? Would that not be arrogant? Am I just supposed to fall in line and agree with every world design decision that Blizzard ever makes and consider it "different" not "worse" just because this is a community thread?
I still don't see why my complaints are in a special class that should never be brought up or discussed while the complaints other people have are perfectly welcome. They are allowed to disagree with and discuss design choices Blizzard makes and I'm not? Why? Just because their disagreements are more common?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
And by saying that, you have clearly revealed that you have been completely ignoring me as well as all the completely unrelated advice other people have offered me when they also missed/ignored what the actual issue was, and you are simply annoyed by all the words in the big posts for you to breeze over. Thanks for letting me know.
Well, I'm glad at least one person actually bothered to read what I was saying, and had also experienced some of the same annoyances. Maybe we'll talk about it with each other a bit, if they respond again. In the meantime, people who don't want to discuss it are free to not do so. I promise I won't respond to people who don't talk to/about me.
I used to think the level 90 boost was a good thing, Dice has convinced me otherwise.
There's next to no penalty for death in WoW and there are loads of graveyards so corpse runs take very little time and yet you're complaining about that one time you bumped into NPCs that killed you and mobs that are a few levels higher than you? Learn from it and move on like everyone else did when the guards at Gadgetzan or the welcome bear in western plaguelands killed them 10 years ago.
It's not Blizzard's design that is at fault, you just have a horrible attitude.
There's next to no penalty for death in WoW and there are loads of graveyards so corpse runs take very little time and yet you're complaining about that one time you bumped into NPCs that killed you and mobs that are a few levels higher than you? Learn from it and move on like everyone else did when the guards at Gadgetzan or the welcome bear in western plaguelands killed them 10 years ago.
It's not Blizzard's design that is at fault, you just have a horrible attitude.
It's great if the player is coming back to WoW for the expansion and wants to try out the new content with a different class or character.
If a player is new to the game though, it's probably the worst decision one could make.
Validate your over priced undergrad degree in English elsewhere.
I totally agree, I should have been more specific.
I levelled a monk to 60 then used the boost so I had a max level enchanter ready to go, it was a nice little freebie.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
*sigh*
I am not fixated on that instance at all, and it was like 5% of my annoyance in the moment. Do we all understand what anecdotes are? Do we understand why people use them when expressing their feelings about a much larger, pervading, general issue?
And do we understand how the capacity to learn and work around the faults of a game does not mean they are no longer faults, and other games can reveal superior design choices for different aspects of a game world? Are we capable of discussing the aspects these things themselves, particularly if we disagree on whether or not they are faults, rather than complaining about our preconceived notions of the person who brings up the topic?
Although, if we are going to continue down this path rather than game discussion, anyone else who has been ignoring me the whole time feel free to also jump in and make up some shit about what my attitude is concerning something else entirely from the issue I'm talking about. We could save time by getting it all covered in one post.
Again, I promise I won't explain anything to people who aren't speaking to/about me.
Edit: Be mindful that, while you may have some kind of perception that I am obsessively and persistently raging about this aspect of the game, I'm not. I had some annoyance build up, and made a venting post, and would have happily left it there and moved on. It is not a HUGE DEAL to me, but just one thought I have about the game design. I'm not coming back to just post on the same topic over and over again as if it is continually on my mind. I am directly responding to people who responded to me, and I will continue to do so, especially if they continue misrepresenting my position, attitude, and character based on their assumptions.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
You seem upset. Let's try something new:
Doesn't WoW have really great gamefeel? I think Blizzard is practically the Nintendo of PC in that respect. Everything always just feels right with controlling your character and activating abilities and such. It's always snappy with just the right delay and physics and feedback elements. Some games tend to focus on polishing animations so far that controls feel kind of loose/sloppy, but Blizzard keeps it tight and natural to the kind of action taking place, and pays attention to rhythms of abilities in the major combinations you'd want to be using them.
I also really like how they handle builds and specs. They keep them grouped into specializations so you don't have to bother with too much researching into calculating all the best synergies, and you can respec not completely for free but for fairly low investment, so you can put in the effort and have the reward of growing power, but not have to repeat things you've done before over and over just to try out a different take on the same class. It keeps it fresh and will surely offer some nice flexibility to endgame so you can work around particular raids or the builds of guildmates.
Doesn't WoW have really great gamefeel? I think Blizzard is practically the Nintendo of PC in that respect. Everything always just feels right with controlling your character and activating abilities and such. It's always snappy with just the right delay and physics and feedback elements. Some games tend to focus on polishing animations so far that controls feel kind of loose/sloppy, but Blizzard keeps it tight and natural to the kind of action taking place, and pays attention to rhythms of abilities in the major combinations you'd want to be using them.
I also really like how they handle builds and specs. They keep them grouped into specializations so you don't have to bother with too much researching into calculating all the best synergies, and you can respec not completely for free but for fairly low investment, so you can put in the effort and have the reward of growing power, but not have to repeat things you've done before over and over just to try out a different take on the same class. It keeps it fresh and will surely offer some nice flexibility to endgame so you can work around particular raids or the builds of guildmates.
Yep, I agree. Really tight controls is one of the things Blizzard seems to do best. It's been that way since the beginning with Warcraft. Same feeling in Diablo, Starcraft, Heroes, Hearthstone, and I'm assuming Overwatch as well.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Please, I am not ignorant of what addons can do, WoW, or leveling. I know what I am talking about. Leveling addons are shit, and you are causing your own problems. Carbonite, Zygor, Dugi, Questhelper. Most of them are shit for the first time through because you focus on the addon that you can't supplement with past experience like following roads or reading signposts. Not to mention it's a huge disservice to the game itself which is supposed to be about discovery and exploration instead of following the most efficient path. Keep shooting yourself in the foot though. It's becoming wildly entertaining for us, we've never seen such a self-admitted noob that refuses to learn.
You stumbled into an Alliance base, you aren't allowed to do that. You aren't allowed to do that in any MMO with factions. Just like you can't walk into Solitude as a Stormcloak in Skyrim. It's irrelevant if you aren't on a pvp server or further ahead on the quest line, the world doesn't phase and progress you ahead based on what quests you have/haven't done because then the playerbase out in the world is split between places where you can see certain things and where you can't. There are neutral areas like Dalaran and Shattrath but the world isn't split into your own little special stage every time you complete a questline.
"Hey are you here? I'm near the people where you do such-and-such quest."
"I can't see you, I didn't do that quest yet, now I'm being killed by a mob and you can't help me because of weird phasing. Oh well."
A badly designed game is one that doesn't follow it's own rules. WoW follows its own rules, the world doesn't progress, your character does.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Yeah, I'm interested to see how it goes with Overwatch. FPS is a completely new format for them. It's hard to tell from videos what "school" of FPS controls they're leaning towards. It doesn't seem like id Software/Valve kind of directness, but it clearly isn't slow/assisted like Far Cry. Maybe more somewhere around Halo.
Wait, this isn't WoW discussion now. RIP.
If you disagree, you disagree. The expression of feelings a person feels in different experiences is not a matter of objectivity to try and beat each other over the head with. I find it kind of amusing how far people are going to make assumptions about me to justify to themselves that a person ought not ever feel the way I do about navigation in WoW, so that way they can think of my emotional experience as objectively incorrect.
Wait, this isn't WoW discussion now. RIP.
You're assuming that I'm doing that and not learning the world, as if I haven't played through dozens of big ol RPG gameworlds that didn't even have maps. Summarized as concisely as possible, I think the process of learning this particular world is over-annoying compared to other RPGs because of how it is designed.
If you disagree, you disagree. The expression of feelings a person feels in different experiences is not a matter of objectivity to try and beat each other over the head with. I find it kind of amusing how far people are going to make assumptions about me to justify to themselves that a person ought not ever feel the way I do about navigation in WoW, so that way they can think of my emotional experience as objectively incorrect.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
There's nothing to assume. You did something only noobs do, and threw a tantrum, while saying you aren't a noob because you've played other RPGs, and say the game should give you a dotted line in the exact right direction every time. The thought that you are not attentive enough to see what level mobs are or how to avoid them isn't your fault, it's the games of course.
At the very least you have to know that when you say you don't like the way the world works because of apparently arbitrary dangers in the world, and then say you never leveled up past 30, no one is going to take your opinion seriously, because you've never been in a tough zone, or had to do anything besides kill sheep at that point. Things gradually become tougher and tougher as you level up, and you are clearly not ready for 90-100.
At the very least you have to know that when you say you don't like the way the world works because of apparently arbitrary dangers in the world, and then say you never leveled up past 30, no one is going to take your opinion seriously, because you've never been in a tough zone, or had to do anything besides kill sheep at that point. Things gradually become tougher and tougher as you level up, and you are clearly not ready for 90-100.