I dare venture over to MMO champ. As bad as the official forums are, I've always found thata place to be countless times worse.
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World of Warcraft |OT7| Feel the hatred of 10,000 Murlocs
- Thread starter ampere
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I dare venture over to MMO champ. As bad as the official forums are, I've always found thata place to be countless times worse.
Sgtpepper89
Member
Imagine the forums if they accually release a vanilla server and people realise how slow and grindy everything is, and whine about getting ganked 24/7, how CC last forever etc. People will never be satisfied.
SpiceMelange
Member
You'd go through WoW's history of content patches and expansions for progressive servers. For those that want to stick with a single expansion Blizzard could put separate servers for that need.
Robin64
Member
Okay, but then what happens when you get to the end? And how can anyone stick with an expansion, people moan like made when we're stuck with current stuff for a year.
All they would have to do is add achievements on those servers like herald of the titans for the other raids, and people would have motivation to level lock at each tier until they got them. That could be pretty interesting actually. They'd really need to raise drop rates though.
RoninChaos
Member
I think the bigger issue here is that when Vanilla was released, the 1-60 grind was a HUGE chunk of content. Yes, you had end game, but getting 1-60 was a huge time sink and a big deal when you could get it done. That changed with every expansion as the only content for leveling was 10 or 5 levels, which people could blow through, and then it was on to end game. Vanilla had a lot more than end game because of the 1-60 grind. ANd that's not something that's ever going to come back.
Realistically most people probably wouldn't make it that far. EQ2 progression servers were brought up before and those are about what you'd expect, shrinking population and server merges over time and they are no where near the end.
Also don't think it was mentioned but the servers progress at a faster speed, time between patches and expansions is very short, it's not real time. There would be no waiting around with no content for a year.
Robin64
Member
Yeah I figured that'd be the case, but I mentioned that because of "For those that want to stick with a single expansion Blizzard could put separate servers for that need." I bet nobody would want that really.
No argument for me man, I see any server throwback regardless of expansion popular for a while and then completely abandoned because in the end content is king.
The caches were good when you don't have gear and any time you get one it's an upgrade. As the expansion goes on they become useless. Now you can't even get weapons off it unless it's lfr. Overall I wish they weren't even a thing. The only thing I need are boots off archi and the stuff from caches are just gold for me, although at the start, I got an mythic warforged trinket so I was happy as fuck cause it was from a boss we couldn't get to and it help to kill gorefiend
If the only differences between a pristine realm and a normal realm are removed QoL things as well as stuff like heirlooms etc. I am not sure if I would really play there. In the end I only do dungeons with friends most of the time anyway, so nothign would really change for me. If they would however make mobs stronger, THAT would be a whole different beast. Some classes are able to solo dungeons and hunters doing the Ironman challenge don't even have to outlevel mobs until much later, if at all. That's just sad.
Speaking of, I am sad that Legion has killed the Ironman Challenge.
Blizz should make it a real ingame option.
Eh, I don't think it's dead. It just evolved again. It may be easier for the 1-100 content, but Legion content seems to be extremely hard or even impossible for irons.
I mean, I played iron toons since Cata (with 52 being my very first and still highest leveld character). When MoP put many skills behind specs, some classes were more or less dead, especially Warriors. Heck, they have 1 skill that deals damage (except for Victory Rush, which you can't really count). It's horribly boring to play an iron warrior.
But that aside, I am currently trying to solo as much dungeons as possible on a Paladin without overleveling much. I skipped the last few Outland dungeons and I am not 70. If you are interested, here is a thread over on the ironman board I opened several months ago when I started. This "challenge" probably works better with 2 or 3 people, since I am not sure if I can even beat a single TBC Heroic without leveling to 71, which will trivialize it.
http://wowironmanchallenge.proboards.com/thread/825/dungeon-challenge
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I don't know if I'd necessarily want to play on a pristine server.
The main thing I'm interested in is a return to form on some of the RPG elements that made older expansions have some interesting things to do, even if they weren't quite as convenient. Professions particularly were streamlined in MoP and went off the deep end in WoD. MoP paradigm was workable for me, but WoD was outright terrible. As mentioned, recipe collection and rare material collection make for interesting economic gameplay. Sure it may boil down to you buying stuff you need from the AH, but someone else had to do the "hard work" of gathering for that to happen. Not just shuffle over 10 feet in their garrison. Everything being made from one daily CD mat was some F2P bullshit design.
The main thing I'm interested in is a return to form on some of the RPG elements that made older expansions have some interesting things to do, even if they weren't quite as convenient. Professions particularly were streamlined in MoP and went off the deep end in WoD. MoP paradigm was workable for me, but WoD was outright terrible. As mentioned, recipe collection and rare material collection make for interesting economic gameplay. Sure it may boil down to you buying stuff you need from the AH, but someone else had to do the "hard work" of gathering for that to happen. Not just shuffle over 10 feet in their garrison. Everything being made from one daily CD mat was some F2P bullshit design.
Robin64
Member
I guess evolved is the right word. The difference between not having a spec and one being forced on you in Legion will be like chalk and cheese for the 1 to 100 content.
Mind, I wish they'd just support the feature officially. Add a tick to the character creation for it, then all the rules can be integrated ingame properly. Nobody will accidentally equip a green, because you can't.
Mind, I wish they'd just support the feature officially. Add a tick to the character creation for it, then all the rules can be integrated ingame properly. Nobody will accidentally equip a green, because you can't.
I just want a difficulty slider. Heck, just give me something simple like a permanent debuff which I can switch on/off at the same dude that enables/disables my EXP that increases damage taken by X%, reduces damage dealt by Y% but increases chance for loot by Z%.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
These are the first steps. People who are bitching they didn't get all the shit they wanted are so missing any sort of foresight it's disgusting.
Play on these servers if you want to. Overpopulate the hell out of them, give them queue times, crash them. Show them you want the game to be harder and they'll invest more time into doing that. It'll make the next expansion harder, the answer isn't progressive servers, it's making the new game with the same philosophy as the old one.
Why would they waste time re-doing vanilla?
Yep, I largely agree with this. I feel something has definitely been lost in the race to make everything as accessible as possible, and perhaps there's a case for cutting down on some of that to make the world a bigger, more interesting place, with more dependency on fellow players.
Note: I'm not suggesting huge changes like getting rid of dungeon finder or anything like that. No putting that genie back in the bottle anyway.
Novel Mike
Member
Speaking of, I am sad that Legion has killed the Ironman Challenge.
Blizz should make it a real ingame option.
I mentioned that in my video but I'd love to see a Prstine server setup just for Ironman. Nothing drops but White/gray and all of the other rules are in effect. Hell they could setup an account wide achievement for completing it on that server.
I started doing one and recording it over the weekend, figured I need to do it now before it becomes impossible.
This... This is all I want.
I'd agree simply because they said no character transfers, that kills any sort of endgame community when you have to go through a tedious leveling process to reach endgame. It just won't be able to sustain itself in the long term. We have plenty of proof of that from the past when you couldn't transfer from a pve server to a pvp server. They might have a chance if you can transfer between pristine servers but I doubt it'd last forever.
Yeah, the only way it would work if it had some sort of season cycle. But that would just motivate power leveling, which would defeat the purpose.
The complete failure of every game made with that design philosophy in the last 5 years says you actually don't. What you want is time travel.
Got my ring on my DK this morning.
So Hearthstone expansion and Diablo 3 season this week? I guess they don't want anyone playing WoW until Legion
Yep. And just like 40 man raiding in Wildstar, it will be a reminder that the loud minority don't mean shit.
So Hearthstone expansion and Diablo 3 season this week? I guess they don't want anyone playing WoW until Legion
Yep. And just like 40 man raiding in Wildstar, it will be a reminder that the loud minority don't mean shit.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Did you really just do the "You think you do, but you don't" line unsarcastically?
Every game made with that design philosophy was an unpolished piece of shit. I want the game to foster a community of players instead of disposable groups and a world that is a character itself again. I don't want time travel.
If there was some secret about getting past all the bugs in the attunement process for Wildstar then let me know. I got stuck trying to get Malgrave Trail Silver and it didn't get fixed for months.
Wildstar is also not WoW. It's irrelevant.
Wildstar was built off the ideas of vanilla WoW incorporated into a new game. It is literally
AnathemicOne
Banned
Pristine servers would be something I'd like to try out. Modern content without the implemented anti-social features (X-Server, Dungeon/Raid Finder, etc.) would be something I'd be really interested in. An actual community I can experience/participate in within modern WoW is what I really want out of this game.
jaundicejuice
Member
There are aspects of Wildtstar that are designed to appeal to MMO players wanting a more difficult, vanilla WoW-like experience and people always use that as the excuse for why the game failed to gain any traction, completely ignoring its many other issues. A total lack of server stability that went on for weeks and weeks, beyond the usual launch hiccups one expects, completely tanked their f2p re-launch. Carbine never resolved the issue, it just sorted itself out as fewer and fewer people logged in to play the game.
See, this is what I don't get. I hear it over and over and over. "The game should foster a community." Except, none of the things people say fostered a community, actually did so. Areas with elites during leveling? People were already skipping them in vanilla. No LFD? You think trade chat groups made people like each other? Do you know how my guild mates and I would treat the randoms we'd add to our groups?
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Yeah except did you play it at all?
There's a little thing called execution you're missing from the equation there. Wildstar was a janky pile of ass. Game should've had at least another 6 months in development.
Oh, the shit my guild used to talk when we had to fill out our groups with a random healer or something.
This is a big point. A lot of the QoL features that have been added over the years have actually been anti-social features. I noticed they didn't mention Dungeon/Raid finder as something they would remove, but it would be nice.
jaundicejuice
Member
I don't get how removing Cross-Realm Zones would help foster community. I play a lot of PVE content and without CRZ most of older zones would be flat out dead. Completely empty. I've played on two of the largest NA PVE servers, I can't imagine how dead the game would seem without it on a medium pop server, nevermind low pop.
There's this myth that realms used to be wondrous places where everyone knew everyone and you helped your fellow players and seeing someone out in the world led to cooperation and support and endless friendship. Apparently CRZ kills that because the names now have a realm after them. And realm hoppers steal all the rares (which is true) but that's only a problem because they come from other realms.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
people have this notion that because randos from servers unknown are playing, you have no impetus to get to know them.
that may be true, but the same was said of rando from your server, too. at least in my experience.
Yeah it's ridiculous. In vanilla I joined a guild with my friends I had before WoW and never interacted with any sort of larger community in the way people are describing. The people outside my circle of friends in vanilla were the same as they are in modern WoW, faceless nameless people who we stuck in our dungeon groups to fill a role. It was not this magical place where I made friends with every person I came across, I ignored people just like I do now, and I got annoyed when they were killing shit I wanted to kill.
Dunno, servers crapping themselves randomly out sounds like Vanilla WoW to me.
Don't forget the part where you log back in after they crash and you and your 39 Naxx raiding partners are underneath Hillsbrad dead in a pile for some reason and when you pan your camera around you see every other major guild in the exact same way. Then you have to spirit res (because ghosts can't go underground obviously) and go back to Naxx only to discover the past hour of trash you cleared is back.
I still never figured out how that one happened, but it sucked balls.
jaundicejuice
Member
How I imagine leveling on pristine realms will go is they'll look a lot like the regular PVE/PVP realms. There will be super active 1-10 and 10-20 zones, then every zone from there on after will become more and more sparsely populated until you get to the point where you're the only person questing in a zone. In regular servers that's just because a lot of people just spam dungeon and battleground queues, while the pristine realm higher level zones will just be dead at that point.
Who knows, maybe people will come back for pristine realms, maybe some tight knit guilds will come out of those early questing and dungeon groups, maybe zones like Un'Goro Crater or Outland's Nagrand will be super-active but it just seems so unlikely.
I'm more keen to see Legion's flex-leveling applied to the whole game, then you could play a zone from start to finish and get decent exp out of it, or maybe you could start in any expansion you wanted. It would be awesome to finish a starter zone and just go play MoP or Cata instead of grinding the same starter zones in 1-60 Azeroth over and over.
Oh but it wasn't random, it just required lots people killing mobs and getting a specific item, the new f2p currency, to drop. The more it happened, the more bogged down the server would get until the game became unplayable and the server would have to restart. It happened like clockwork, every few hours the servers (all two of them, one PVE, one PVP) would get taken down for maintenance. They basically didn't do a large enough, staggered stress test. They had more people hammer on their servers during the f2p re-launch than they did when it was sub-based, not necessarily a bad problem, and they introduced new issues with some of their f2p currency system. You would come home from work and try to log in just to be met with an incredibly laggy game if the servers weren't down maintenance or you weren't stuck in a queue waiting to see if the game was a laggy mess when you could log-in.
They did add extra mega-servers but the issues persisted and what people may have had patience in 2004 with WoW, they sure as shit didn't in 2015 with Wildstar. After two or three months the population began to drop off and recently NCSoft laid off half of Carbine's staff with the other shoe expected to drop for the remaining staff soon. Probably depends on how well the re-re-launch goes on Steam.
Who knows, maybe people will come back for pristine realms, maybe some tight knit guilds will come out of those early questing and dungeon groups, maybe zones like Un'Goro Crater or Outland's Nagrand will be super-active but it just seems so unlikely.
I'm more keen to see Legion's flex-leveling applied to the whole game, then you could play a zone from start to finish and get decent exp out of it, or maybe you could start in any expansion you wanted. It would be awesome to finish a starter zone and just go play MoP or Cata instead of grinding the same starter zones in 1-60 Azeroth over and over.
Oh but it wasn't random, it just required lots people killing mobs and getting a specific item, the new f2p currency, to drop. The more it happened, the more bogged down the server would get until the game became unplayable and the server would have to restart. It happened like clockwork, every few hours the servers (all two of them, one PVE, one PVP) would get taken down for maintenance. They basically didn't do a large enough, staggered stress test. They had more people hammer on their servers during the f2p re-launch than they did when it was sub-based, not necessarily a bad problem, and they introduced new issues with some of their f2p currency system. You would come home from work and try to log in just to be met with an incredibly laggy game if the servers weren't down maintenance or you weren't stuck in a queue waiting to see if the game was a laggy mess when you could log-in.
They did add extra mega-servers but the issues persisted and what people may have had patience in 2004 with WoW, they sure as shit didn't in 2015 with Wildstar. After two or three months the population began to drop off and recently NCSoft laid off half of Carbine's staff with the other shoe expected to drop for the remaining staff soon. Probably depends on how well the re-re-launch goes on Steam.
Apparently according to preach Suramar will be nothing like other zones in WoW. Currently it has almost no item rewards and no dailies, instead it is a zone full of story quest and has no trivial quests also it is way bigger than any other zones. According to him it feels like you play a single player game and not an MMO, a series of quests which you have to pay attention to. Watch the whole video if you want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1-bQIHGQ24
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Rewards could very well just not be in the beta yet. Wouldn't be surprised if it has a lot of artifact-related stuff.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
but preach isn't complaining about it, he's praising it to heaven and back
Normally they do that in an entirely negative light though
He is actually being really positive about Suramar. Obviously it's not all finished yet but the way he was describing it reminded me of how questing was in the Secret World which I absolutely loved. Would be amazing to have a zone in WoW that flowed like the zones in that game did.Regardless though I think the idea of a max level questing zone is really cool, hope it turns out well.