Bro you should know by now people complaining about story stuff are also the people that pay 0 attention to story stuff as it happens. Garrosh's path was set out in front of us the moment he had that conversation with Saurfang in Warsong Hold at the start of Wrath but I doubt many people even paid attention to that stuff. That's just how these things go, pay attention to nothing, complain about everything.
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World of Warcraft |OT7| Feel the hatred of 10,000 Murlocs
- Thread starter ampere
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Bro you should know by now people complaining about story stuff are also the people that pay 0 attention to story stuff as it happens. Garrosh's path was set out in front of us the moment he had that conversation with Saurfang in Warsong Hold at the start of Wrath but I doubt many people even paid attention to that stuff. That's just how these things go, pay attention to nothing, complain about everything.
But like Jania is kinda right. Horde didn't Care about all these war crimes until They started happening to their own. It was all fine and dandy until that point.
i kinda agree with Nobbel's opinion on the subject that Disbanding the horde wouldn't have been such a bad thing if handled properly
Lanrutcon
Member
"Ok, fellow humans: everything with green skin gets thrown into the ocean, and someone please get those flasks away from the Forsaken before we burn them."
Well it did have depth after it too, they just threw that part away and reset him to the early WotLK state of "only the strongest may survive" and continued with that mindset.
Jaina's path is not really that illogical or evil. She can be a little intense but she's kind of been the biggest victim of the tyrannical and bloody rule of Garrosh. I can't really see her becoming someone players fight.
Warlords of Draenor really hurt the storytelling of WoW as a whole. We really did not get much perspective of what the Horde would become or what kind of transition there would be now that they weren't being manipulated for ill by Garrosh. Sort of a hard storyline to put on hiatus when half of the playerbase belongs to it and they are left in the lurch.
We are kind of getting strong leadership from neutral sources for both factions now though. Khadgar has become one of my favorite characters and I'm glad he'll continue to play a prominent role moving forward.
Warlords of Draenor really hurt the storytelling of WoW as a whole. We really did not get much perspective of what the Horde would become or what kind of transition there would be now that they weren't being manipulated for ill by Garrosh. Sort of a hard storyline to put on hiatus when half of the playerbase belongs to it and they are left in the lurch.
We are kind of getting strong leadership from neutral sources for both factions now though. Khadgar has become one of my favorite characters and I'm glad he'll continue to play a prominent role moving forward.
There are reasons Garrosh used his own bomb after he got on someone else's case about using one to kill others. It is very much explained, not in game yeah, but it is there.. It does not wipe away his character, it in fact builds on it instead.
If you want to get on Blizzard's case for putting character building inside novels and short stories you certainly won't get any argument from me, but, that doesn't change the fact that this stuff is out there and explained.
Isn't the point of his character to be some depressed brute with daddy issues still trying to do his best and doomed to make mistakes?
He had reasons to do most of the things he did.
He tried to do the whole warchief thing the right way but was unprepared and went too far. That's interesting to me and the most development anyone in this game ever had. ANd to me it made sense. Maybe not clear enough or handled the best way, but things are there.
Jaina on the other hand, was stupid as fuck.
What the fuck are you talking about? His storyline was completely 180d for Mists.
You must pay 0 attention to story stuff lolol
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Semi-related question to the lore talk: I was just finishing up Dominance Offensive the other day for the mounts, and aside from the perhaps-obvious inference, how did Jaina find out that the Sunreavers helped the horde steal the bell, thus breaking the neutrality and having her go on her pogrom in Dalaran?
I missed most of MoP, so it was kind of an 'oh yeah, Jaina's still pissed' moment when she showed up at Khadgar's sanctuary during questing and told him off for letting a horde member in.
Was it just a continuation of the post-cata 'no brakes on this train' with her progression?
Side-note, I kinda thought Lorthremar would take Warchief before Sylvanas, given his relatively large involvement in the Dominance offensive and, to a lesser extent, the Sunreaver Onslaught and the Siege of Org raid.
But I suppose that would go against the 'renewed' focus on fighting that Sylvanas brings, especially with what happens to Varian.
I missed most of MoP, so it was kind of an 'oh yeah, Jaina's still pissed' moment when she showed up at Khadgar's sanctuary during questing and told him off for letting a horde member in.
Was it just a continuation of the post-cata 'no brakes on this train' with her progression?
Side-note, I kinda thought Lorthremar would take Warchief before Sylvanas, given his relatively large involvement in the Dominance offensive and, to a lesser extent, the Sunreaver Onslaught and the Siege of Org raid.
But I suppose that would go against the 'renewed' focus on fighting that Sylvanas brings, especially with what happens to Varian.
Lanrutcon
Member
Who the fuck is Lorth...oh, wait. She's that Blood Elf chick with the fabulous hair? Look, I know we're running out of candidates here but let's maintain some standards at least. What's Lor'themar going to bring to the table? sandwiches and a highly aggressive sense of fashion?
Lanrutcon
Member
It's a running joke: of all the faction leaders, he's one of the least known. Did they ever even give him a unique model?
HarryDemeanor
Member
I'm still confused as to where they're going with Jaina. She just shows up at random points to complain about the Horde and then leaves.
I hope she's a raid boss in Legion.
I hope she's a raid boss in Legion.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I don't think so. Him and Gallywix forever generic scrubs.
It's especially awesome for Gallywix, as all his art shows him as this fat, bulbous-chinned slob. Lor'Themar at least actually just looks like a pretty run of the mill Blood Elf.
She just goes to Darnassus after the bell is stolen and her investigation leads her to a portal that links back to Dalaran. When she confronts Aethas Sunreaver he admits to facilitating the attack.
Maybe I'm missing something but I can't really find the proper justification. Garrosh was bloodthirsty and rash but his good moments all emphasized the value he placed on honor.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Wait, seriously? Like, after the horde player leaves with the bell, the Sunreavers didn't take the portal down?
That's.....something. Lol.
Part of it is probably the strain of being a 'better' Warchief for the Horde than Thrall was, but yeah, it seemed a bit too much, too fast, especially with the 'classic' bad guy stuff of the lesser races getting kicked out of Org, etc...
Maybe it's just supposed to be residual traces of magic or something. It's depicted pretty crudely so it just looks like they left the portal up though.
jaundicejuice
Member
People act like Garrosh was horrified by the use of the mana bomb in Stone Talon Mountain and that there was some sharp change of character with what was done to Theramore. Garrosh dropped Overlord Krom'gar off of the top of Cliffwalker Post because Krom'gar and his warband slaughtered a village of Tauren. Garrosh sent Krom'gar to secure Stone Talon Mountain for the Horde and all Krom'gar did was massacre Cliffwalker Post in order to bomb a druid school that was shared by the Tauren and Night Elves to test out Krom'gar's mana bomb. Krom'gar and his warband were claiming that the school housed some sort of Alliance weapon, they even murdered the son of the chieftain of Cliffwalker Post to perpetuate that lie and then the village in order to carry the test out. The Tauren of Cliffwalker Post were dead set against the bombing and so Krom'gar got rid of them.
bruh he wasnt corrupted by the old gods
I deleted that after like five seconds when I realized what I was saying.
Some of the quests in Pandaria did seem to suggest that Garrosh was corrupted by the Sha. I'm not entirely clear on whether that was what caused him to try to claim the power of Y'shaarj for himself and order his team to start excavating, or if it was his plan from the beginning and the corruption was just a side effect.
Some of the quests in Pandaria did seem to suggest that Garrosh was corrupted by the Sha. I'm not entirely clear on whether that was what caused him to try to claim the power of Y'shaarj for himself and order his team to start excavating, or if it was his plan from the beginning and the corruption was just a side effect.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Garrosh wasn't corrupted. The Sha influence may have drove him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise, but in the end he took the remainder of Y'shaarj's power for himself.
Could always be "back" as a spirit. Trolls do that stuff
lol
Maybe if they didn't have to deal with the gameplay issues of factions they'd do something crazy like this
That's exactly what happened. That's why we fought the Sha of Pride underneath the vale.
The entire storyline for the expansion was that there was a land grab war between the allies and the horde, and that the shas, by proxy Yshaarj, are able to subvery and twist your emotions and make them extremely intense. Garrosh wanted the bell, I kind of forget what the deal with that was, but the implication was always that the sha were making this entire conflict worse. Garrosh was as 'corrupted' as anyone else ever was. His imperialistic tendencies and the conflict at hand (again, there WAS a heavy horde vs ally implication in the expansion, I think people just don't think of the pvp stuff much when they discuss lore for some reason, but it's why we had a major pvp themed patch) were greatly amplified by the sha and made him kind of bloodthirsty and sure of what he was doing, the sha of pride fed on that and turned "I want to do what is best for the horde" into "I AM DOING THE BEST THING FOR MY PEOPLE" ignoring any consequences to anyone else. His pride led him to thinking he could harness Yshaarj, and in the end Yshaarj was the one using him. That final phase on heroic is Yshaarj getting garrosh to willingly give himself over in order to fulfill his desires.
I don't read the books, I don't troll lore forums, I have no doubt that I COULD be wrong, but this was always the pretty clear basic outline of the plot from where I sat, just doing the quests and raids and everything else as they hit.
Nope, not at all. But keep beating that drum. Frankly I don't care.
And things started out honorably. After all the Cata stuff went down Garrosh knew that a lot of people in the Horde did not like him (Vol'jin felt he was ripping apart what he and Thrall built, Sylvanas hated him for a lot of reasons, mainly racism, and Baine lost all respect for him because half of Thunderbluff had been murdered because of his actions). Not only that the Alliance had built a stronger presence in traditionally Horde lands (which lead to stuff like an entire Tauren village being massacred) which all the Horde agreed was a bad thing.
Garrosh wanted to try and mend those fences a bit by running the Alliance out of Kalimdor and alot of stuff happened along the way. I'm not gonna bother going over that entire book but Theramore wasn't the only thing that happened in it, there were more traditional clashes between the two factions before the bomb came into play. But the short of it is that Garrosh wanted to show the other leaders of the Horde that he could be a strong leader for them. He just let his thirst for that go too far which lead to all the Theramore shit. After that there was pretty much no turning back in his mind.
This is such a horrible change and the reasons for the change are idiotic.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745744692#18
There are so many bosses that you cannot properly do as melee without that max camera zoom out.
Good luck seeing shit when the camera is this close.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745744692#18
There are so many bosses that you cannot properly do as melee without that max camera zoom out.
Good luck seeing shit when the camera is this close.
Lanrutcon
Member
"We want parity between the non-raiders who have absolutely no need for this and the raiders that absolutely do."
Blizzard. Really?
The interaction emphasizes that the route taken was underhanded, and not what Garrosh or his Horde believed in though.
Between this and his interaction with Sylvanas it's pretty clear that Garrosh was not willing to do whatever it took just for power. Part of why he is reprimanding Krom'gar is because he wants to be a warrior, not a murderer. Even as a warmonger, Garrosh's major scenes in Cataclysm revolve around criticizing those who cast away their dignity for power.
All of these values were thrown out of the window in Mists though, where suddenly he's saying stuff like this:
I get that there was pressure for Garrosh to be powerful, but it's just impossible for me to connect the dots between Cataclysm and Mists.
Using the bomb on Theramore almost works in a contradictory fashion though. Who are these cowardly tactics supposed to impress? I get that you are saying stuff happened...but it just doesn't feel like enough to so radically alter his beliefs and behavior. The perspective that orcs have, which should be drilled into Garrosh, warns of the danger carried with casting aside tradition and honor and simply pursuing power.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
As someone who cares too much about WC lore I saw chronicle volume 1 in a comic book store yesterday and bought it and I'm really enjoying it.
As a means of unifying 20 years of lore to make sense before Legion it's great at it. There are retcons but they don't bother me and help to unify the lore, and I honestly forget a lot of the details to consider stuff retcons anymore. I'm sure the Well of Eternity wasn't always formed by Aman'Thul ripping Y'shaarj from the surface of the world and having him bleed ichor that would form the Well, but its cool. I really appreciate when origin stories in fictonal settings feel like real mythological stories of the Greeks or Japanese or Native Americans. Ive never read any of the books aside from a trilogy about Furion that I forgot the name of years ago so this is helping me contextualize a lot of lore events like the War of the Shifting Sands and the origins of the titanic watchers. Also the Black Empire is so cool. With this, I doubt Blizzard will be able to resist eventually going back to primordial Azeroth or a pre sundering world. Its far to ripe for cool stuff to ignore. It also has me excited to explore the Emerald Dream and maybe other planets in the Great Dark Beyond like Argus. The descriptions are so fascinating and interesting. Art is fantastic as well.
I just have one question -
As a means of unifying 20 years of lore to make sense before Legion it's great at it. There are retcons but they don't bother me and help to unify the lore, and I honestly forget a lot of the details to consider stuff retcons anymore. I'm sure the Well of Eternity wasn't always formed by Aman'Thul ripping Y'shaarj from the surface of the world and having him bleed ichor that would form the Well, but its cool. I really appreciate when origin stories in fictonal settings feel like real mythological stories of the Greeks or Japanese or Native Americans. Ive never read any of the books aside from a trilogy about Furion that I forgot the name of years ago so this is helping me contextualize a lot of lore events like the War of the Shifting Sands and the origins of the titanic watchers. Also the Black Empire is so cool. With this, I doubt Blizzard will be able to resist eventually going back to primordial Azeroth or a pre sundering world. Its far to ripe for cool stuff to ignore. It also has me excited to explore the Emerald Dream and maybe other planets in the Great Dark Beyond like Argus. The descriptions are so fascinating and interesting. Art is fantastic as well.
I just have one question -
what happens if Azeroth, the Titan - awakens from slumber? From what I understand Azeroth is so special because it contains what might be the last of the sleeping Titans who would be even more powerful then Aman'thul or pre corruption Sargares which is why the Legion and Void Lords are so obsessed with the planet and its so special. The most powerful being in the universe is essentially up for grabs sleeping right under our feet. If Titans are literally living planets and their skin are mountains and rivers, what happens to Azeroth if he wakes up?
Lanrutcon
Member
Apparently it happens in a book, which means it might as well have not happened.
It did a good enough job building it up over the course of the novel. Honestly I don't feel like regurgitating 200 or so pages of text, if people want to they can read the book themselves (though overall I actually think it is a fairly boring book). My only comment on the whole thing is that it should have been part of the pre-MoP event. I actually didn't get to the book until sometime after the expansion came out but it filled in a lot of blanks between the end of Cata and the start of MoP.
Not explained yet. I imagine they purposefully left it that way for the future.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I dunno if Garrosh's actions make more sense in some book or some crap but it didn't feel like a huge stretch to me. Although in the fight he turns comically evil, I guess you could blame that on the Sha of Pride and Y'shaarj.
The final mythic phase of his fight is pretty dope tho
The final mythic phase of his fight is pretty dope tho
spleenpoker
Member
Can someone recommend a youtube video to watch that goes into detail about the story so far? I didn't raid at all in WoD so have no idea what's happened. I want to be completely caught up especially regarding character plots. I see everyone mentioning Jaina, can't even remember the last time I saw her in a cutscene :/
Thanks everyone
Thanks everyone
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/
Haven't played since November but was planning on coming back to Legion, this change is actually making me reconsider coming back. In the past I've had the game reset my camera settings and the max default just makes the game unplayable to me, it's like playing at 60 FOV or something.
A huge majority of people seem to play with those max settings and no one on Reddit or on the forums are happy about this change, I'll be such a fucked up move if they don't revert this change.
Haven't played since November but was planning on coming back to Legion, this change is actually making me reconsider coming back. In the past I've had the game reset my camera settings and the max default just makes the game unplayable to me, it's like playing at 60 FOV or something.
A huge majority of people seem to play with those max settings and no one on Reddit or on the forums are happy about this change, I'll be such a fucked up move if they don't revert this change.
Can someone recommend a youtube video to watch that goes into detail about the story so far? I didn't raid at all in WoD so have no idea what's happened. I want to be completely caught up especially regarding character plots. I see everyone mentioning Jaina, can't even remember the last time I saw her in a cutscene :/
Thanks everyone
you can go to nobbels channel and pick your way through all of wods content if you're really interested.
he covers everything.
most useless change yet.
i have been playing at max camera distance for the entirety of WoW and this fucking blows.
People whine about the stupidest shit. Your average wow boss isn't even CLOSE to the size of a Fel Reaver - a mob intentionally designed to be huge. if anything playing at max zoom makes most bosses look like ants. That's the entire point of the change. Anyone that thinks you can't see shit without zooming out a mile into the sky is blind.
EDIT: And as I suspected just from looking at the screenshot, the fel reaver one is flat out lying. Disingenuous posts from people ion reddit and elsewhere trying to support their dumb point. That's literally the default zoom. You can see more than twice that in actuality.
EDIT: And as I suspected just from looking at the screenshot, the fel reaver one is flat out lying. Disingenuous posts from people ion reddit and elsewhere trying to support their dumb point. That's literally the default zoom. You can see more than twice that in actuality.