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[Tarazet]

WoD already has some good stuff about it imo. The zones were fun to level through, the music and art is all beautiful, and a good number of the raid bosses were good. Just overall it felt a bit light and all the Garrison stuff was super boring.

After the first play through Frostfire Ridge, I thought it would be the best expansion. But after you got through the zones there was nothing left of any real interest. The open world PvE end game was the worst I've ever played in any MMO.

 

[I'm an expert]

Was why i edited in acceptance of bad pugs, referring to that. Wotlk was the turning point from good game to cater to masses. Game has literally never been the same.

 

[Shahadan]

I'm rolling my eyes so hard that my brain is hurting.

Anyway, part 2 of the Chronicles book is releasing in march 2017 apparently. That's a bit far away, and I wonder what they're going to put in that thing.

 

[Data West]

You mention everything but the biggest problem Wrath gave us.

Wrath gave us the Dungeon Finder...

Sure don't miss sitting in Barrens spamming 'Need 1 more for RFK' for 40 minutes until the tank leaves then just quitting because at that point the group is fucked anyways

 

[The1Ski]

The game kind of has to channel players to the newest content. It's sort of unfortunate, but if players weren't pushed through the older zones it would simply take too long for them to discover the fresher and more well designed leveling content, where things like the profession systems can actually be implemented properly.

Yeah i expected as much. It's not like being 5 expansion packs behind in Battlefield.

That's part of the confusion/challenge for me. There's so much content and I'm hoping to take in as much possible.

Question though, is there quest lines or gates to get into content from expansion packs? Or is it all just out there?

 

[Tenebrous]

Sure don't miss sitting in Barrens spamming 'Need 1 more for RFK' for 40 minutes until the tank leaves then just quitting because at that point the group is fucked anyways

I sure miss meeting new people & playing with folk on my server, though. Outside of guildies & friends of guildies, the VAST majority of friends I have in WoW are people I met in the 3 or 4 years I spent playing before the LFD tool was added.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I'm rolling my eyes so hard that my brain is hurting.

So I'm not the only one?

I sure miss meeting new people & playing with folk on my server, though. Outside of guildies & friends of guildies, the VAST majority of friends I have in WoW are people I met in the 3 or 4 years I spent playing before the LFD tool was added.

You want to meet...people that play WOW?

Why?

 

[I'm an expert]

Sure don't miss sitting in Barrens spamming 'Need 1 more for RFK' for 40 minutes until the tank leaves then just quitting because at that point the group is fucked anyways

This is how servers and communities were built. This is what people complain about missing from the current game. Drawing 5 randoms together that will never interact again kills a game like this, even if you got that arbitrary goal of getting some loot done. Now what are you going to do with that loot? Stand in the empty city?

 

[Data West]

I sure miss meeting new people & playing with folk on my server, though. Outside of guildies & friends of guildies, the VAST majority of friends I have in WoW are people I met in the 3 or 4 years I spent playing before the LFD tool was added.

I've never made a friend spamming trade chat to try to get the group done. The only ones I've made have been through guilds and pvp premades. Most people just wanted to get the dungeon done and with how often you have to do them now, not having LFD would be a complete nightmare.

This is how servers and communities were built. This is what people complain about missing from the current game. Drawing 5 randoms together that will never interact again kills a game like this, even if you got that arbitrary goal of getting some loot done. Now what are you going to do with that loot? Stand in the empty city?

I'm going to take that loot and use it to run a raid with a guild run on the server that I'm on. I played Everquest 1 for years, there's plenty of other ways to inspire community participation outside of removing LFD.

 

[Tenebrous]

You want to meet...people that play WOW?

Why?

Because what's the point in playing an MMO otherwise? If WoW were a truly single player game, it'd be one of the worst ever released.

I've never made a friend spamming trade chat to try to get the group done. The only ones I've made have been through guilds and pvp premades. Most people just wanted to get the dungeon done and with how often you have to do them now, not having LFD would be a complete nightmare.

I'm going to take that loot and use it to run a raid with a guild run on the server that I'm on. I played Everquest 1 for years, there's plenty of other ways to inspire community participation outside of removing LFD.

I made quite a few, but it's not all LFD. It's the combined effect of the dungeon finder tool & laughably easy content which devalue 5-mans to a point where it's verging on throwaway shite that's not worth doing. Having to speak to people in dungeons was how I made a lot of in-game friends... Shit, even coordinating enchanting mats at the end of a dungeon resulted in more conversation than I see in 20+ WoD random heroics.

Mythic+ will fix that, but I'm not seeing any reason to look outside my guild for that.

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

Tomorrow will be fun, trade chat tears will be the cherry on top. Messing around with all the new specs, outlaw rogue first!

Spoiler

Then priest, warrior, shaman, and monk!

 

[Tarazet]

I've never made a friend spamming trade chat to try to get the group done. The only ones I've made have been through guilds and pvp premades. Most people just wanted to get the dungeon done and with how often you have to do them now, not having LFD would be a complete nightmare.

You used to have to run dungeons more than you do now, if you wanted stuff like fire resist gear. Most people could get away with not doing them whatsoever, and realistically were better off that way because they were hard.

 

[Shahadan]

Tomorrow will be fun, trade chat tears will be the cherry on top. Messing around with all the new specs, outlaw rogue first!

Spoiler

Then spriest/discipline, warrior, shaman, and monk

I'll be so bored without my garrison. Maybe I'll run some old raid to get transmogs, and then...nothing.

 

[I'm an expert]

being in a guild is not what we talking about here. Guild community is different than world community. The rep your name and your guilds name would have mattered. Now, no one looks above your head to see who you are or who you represent, minus the tiny amount of elite guilds. Having friends to play the content with is fine, but if thats your degree of interaction with the community, youre basically ignoring half the game. But at this point that half has been gone so lng people dont even realize or care.

If i logged in every day and only spoke to my guildmates, id never play this game again.

 

[ampere]

This is how servers and communities were built. This is what people complain about missing from the current game. Drawing 5 randoms together that will never interact again kills a game like this, even if you got that arbitrary goal of getting some loot done. Now what are you going to do with that loot? Stand in the empty city?

The fatal flaw was not adding "hard modes" that were exclusive to pre-formed groups, like Challenge Modes or the new Mythic+

If they had added those at the same time, I don't think dungeon finder wouldn't have hurt server community as much. But, the game also is pretty old so it has to evolve

 

[Lomax]

being in a guild is not what we talking about here. Guild community is different than world community. The rep your name and your guilds name would have mattered. Now, no one looks above your head to see who you are or who you represent, minus the tiny amount of elite guilds. Having friends to play the content with is fine, but if thats your degree of interaction with the community, youre basically ignoring half the game. But at this point that half has been gone so lng people dont even realize or care.

If i logged in every day and only spoke to my guildmates, id never play this game again.

Just out of curiosity, why do you continue to play? It does not sound like you have a healthy relationship with this game.

 

[I'm an expert]

The fatal flaw was not adding "hard modes" that were exclusive to pre-formed groups, like Challenge Modes or the new Mythic+

If they had added those at the same time, I don't think dungeon finder wouldn't have hurt server community as much. But, the game also is pretty old so it has to evolve

Heroic tbc pugs were by far the best communities. They tried with heroic wotlk dungeons but we see how that worked.

 

[Tenebrous]

I'll be so bored without my garrison. Maybe I'll run some old raid to get transmogs, and then...nothing.

I'll spend some time with Weakauras & try to get Ignore Pain how I want it. After that, I'm kinda done...

I have 150+ plate items per slot, 75+ shirts, 55~ tabards all in my bags & ready to go. I've all the items needed for all the enchanting illusion things...

What else is there? New graphics? Hurrey for that, at least. I look forward to doing some comparisons between the old Ultra (7) and the new one (10).

Heroic tbc pugs were by far the best communities. They tried with heroic wotlk dungeons but we see how that worked.

As far as 5 mans go, I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[I'm an expert]

Just out of curiosity, why do you continue to play? It does not sound like you have a healthy relationship with this game.

???

how do you even infer that from the 10 posts i make every two years in this thread..we're talking about how old xpacs shaped and molded current wow.

I play the game for 99% pvp, which still has a community that can endure the pve community changes, if that answers your question. That community is much easier to keep your name in. I still talk to people i grinded grand marshal with.

 

[Tubie]

Wrath wasn't a bad expansion. Literally never met a single person of that opinion.

TBC > MoP = Wrath > Cata >= WoD

For me, in terms of the quality of the raids:

TBC>MoP>>>>>>>Wrath>WoD>Cata

TBC wins because of how much I loved TK, BT and Sunwell, although M'uru was probably the worst fight ever in any expansion. It made my raid leader back then have multiple break downs in the middle of raids.

MoP was overall pretty great (except the daily quests for the rep grinds). ToT was just incredible, one of the best raids in the game. It's my personal favorite. Lei Shen is by far the best raid boss they've ever made, and Ra-den after him was just the cherry on top.

 

[Lomax]

???

how do you even infer that from the 10 posts i make every two years in this thread..we're talking about how old xpacs shaped and molded current wow.

I play the game for 99% pvp, which still has a community that can endure the pve community changes, if that answers your question. That community is much easier to keep your name in. I still talk to people i grinded grand marshal with.

I just made that assessment based on the fact that you said what most people consider the high point of WoW was actually the worst thing to happen to WoW, and you made a statement that basically implied you haven't liked any of the expansions (except MoP I guess) since BC. Which would mean you've played a game you dislike for 10 years, which isn't healthy at all. But if you're that deep in the pvp community and always have been, that explains having a different perspective than most.

Personally I think arena is the worst thing that ever happened to WoW, it fragmented the community, altered the entire way they balanced and designed the game, and pushed a completely unwanted (and largely unsuccessful) attempt to make WoW into an eSport. Which I guess would make BC the worst expansion from that pov.

 

[I'm an expert]

we're going into too dangerous territory now..i cannot follow

 

[Hasemo]

Is it the "What destroyed WoW?" time?

For me it would be the combination of Arenas and flying mounts which seemed to kill most of the world pvp. Dungeon Finder was just a nail in the coffin, which lead to people sitting in main cities, teleporting to dungeons. This point of view might be outdated today though - did something terrible happen with MoP/WoD?

 

[I'm an expert]

Mop fatigued everyone on dailies and hubs and rep grinds..and wod created an actual single player version of the game. The arena excuse is also bs. If you were with us in vanilla you know battlegrounds killed world pvp. And then being able to queue from your city and not having to go to ab or wsg..killed anything left of world pvp. And then being able to warp around wherever the fuck you want without the need to travel or even get a summoning stone killed the remaining morsel..plus flying.

 

[Tubie]

Mop fatigued everyone on dailies and hubs and rep grinds..and wod created an actual single player version of the game. The arena excuse is also bs. If you were with us in vanilla you know battlegrounds killed world pvp. And then being able to queue from your city and not having to go to ab or wsg..killed anything left of world pvp. And then being able to warp around wherever the fuck you want without the need to travel or even get a summoning stone killed the remaining morsel..plus flying.

Oh man, you are reminding me just how much I miss world PvP. It was dirty and unbalanced, but a fuck ton of fun.

Those Tarren Mill v Southshore wars, and the constant PvP at the entrance of every new raid instance or at any world/holiday event. I do miss that a lot.

Even if you were not into PvP full time, you got pulled into that shit constantly (unless you played on a PvE server I guess).

The one thing I miss the most is old AV. I must've played over 200 hours of that BG alone in just vanilla and TBC. It just kinda lost more and more of its appeal once they started tinkering with it.

 

[dimb]

Question though, is there quest lines or gates to get into content from expansion packs? Or is it all just out there?

The only barrier to entering a new expansion is the level requirement.

Wrath wasn't a bad expansion. Literally never met a single person of that opinion.

There was a lot of bad stuff about Wrath. For me it probably outweighed the good. Death Knights were broken beyond belief for way too long, and even after them the class balance never really got to a good place. Inscription was a total bore and had to be walked back and almost pushed out of the game. We got a one two punch of the worst battlegrounds that would ever plague the game in Strand of the Ancients and Isle of Conquest, and the Orgrimmar Arena was so bad that it holds a place in history as the only arena map to be completely excised.

Even using dungeon hubs to reuse assets the offerings were pretty weak. The Nexus and Azjol-Nerub stand out as winners, but if someone was making a list of the top ten dungeons in the game, I'm not sure Wrath would have a significant presence at all. If anything it'd be the foundation for a list of the worst. And the raid scene...was anything less inspiring than hitting cap to see Naxxramas again in a form that had defanged the most intimidating area World of Warcraft had ever known? For as impressive as Ulduar was and continues to be, its time in the spotlight lasted a paltry four months. Crusaders' Coliseum wound up standing as an equally important pillar to Wrath's raid scene, and it should not be remembered fondly in any respect. Icecrown Citadel ended the expansion with a whimper, though it helps that Arthas wound up being a really well designed encounter.

It is usually pretty disheartening to see people retroactively hold up Wrath of the Lich King as some kind of golden era for the game.

 

[I'm an expert]

why i said i didnt want to go down this path lol. anyone who thinks wotlk is the golden age of wow probably joined in wotlk lol. and probably didnt sub from icc to cata release either.

 

[Hasemo]

Right, Battlegrounds came before the Arena. I don't think I had an active account when both of those were being added (extended break), but I remember how much worse the world pvp became. Which was a huge bummer, because it was the most interesting part of the game for someone bored with the PvE after other mmos.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I don't think anything killed WOW. It's a victim of its own success, its genre, and some poor design decisions.

Because what's the point in playing an MMO otherwise? If WoW were a truly single player game, it'd be one of the worst ever released.

I would have agreed with you until I started interacting with most of WOW's playerbase. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all WOW players are awful people or anything, I just have zero desire to interact with the vast majority of them because of the way they behave.

I just want to find a solid guild to raid with and if I never speak to anyone else in game I'll be perfectly content.

 

[Freeman76]

why i said i didnt want to go down this path lol. anyone who thinks wotlk is the golden age of wow probably joined in wotlk lol. and probably didnt sub from icc to cata release either.

I've played since beginning, my golden era was TBC but MoP wasnt far behind at all and WoTLK was up there too. Stop generalising everyone with your bullshit logic, different people like different things, leave it that.

 

[I'm an expert]

But your opinion fits exactly into my generalization o_o

 

[Shahadan]

The only good thing I have to say about WoW players (and most dickheads I still have on my ignore lists are from BC) is that they help me stay in shape since I decided to do push ups and squats whenever someone was wasting my time or just being a dickhead on purpose.

Needless to say, I'll probably never be fat as long as this game exists.

Although to be fair, I can extend this to most multiplayer games. But raids are an endless source of waiting around for no fucking reason.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

trade chat is going to be a zoo tomorrow

well, more of a zoo

 

[Ogawa-san]

I might redownload it and resub for a month for no other reason but to look at my giant transmog gallery, and to gleefully vendor everything in my void storage and bank.

Seriously, it's the mother of all QoL changes.

That and the long overdue death of dual specs.

 

[Zelias]

EU, so no pre-patch until tomorrow. In the meantime, been trying out DH on the Beta. I'm seriously impressed - Frost DK will still probably be my main, but really tempted by DH as the first alt I level.

 

[Data West]

trade chat is going to be a zoo tomorrow

well, more of a zoo

Blizz needs to test out the silence feature anyways

 

[Shahadan]

EU, so no pre-patch until tomorrow. In the meantime, been trying out DH on the Beta. I'm seriously impressed - Frost DK will still probably be my main, but really tempted by DH as the first alt I level.

Same here. I usually level my monk after my priest but DH is probably more fun....ugh decisions, decisions.

 

[Westlo]

Wrath wasn't a bad expansion. Literally never met a single person of that opinion.

TBC > MoP = Wrath > Cata >= WoD

For me I'll go based on playtime......

MOP - Pretty much the only XP I didn't really quit for a significant period of time..... my focus here was playing the AH
TBC - Pretty much just did Arena for the first 3 seasons and quit until Wrath... didn't want to touch raiding since I was burnt out doing that shit in Naxx....

Big gap

Wrath - I didn't even make max level before I quit... came back a few times (usually the major patches) and quit
Cata - Again didn't even make max level before I quit, came back in the final 3 months and started playing the AH which led into that being my focus for MOP
WOD - I actually leveled two characters to max level! Quit shortly after because there was f all to do. Playing the AH got boring by this point as well...

Legion actually looks promising though...

 

[daedalius]

Normalized pvp got me interested again, will be watching tomorrow. Might have to resub for a month to check out the changes to my shaman and warrior.

Wotlk was my favorite expansion, but I wasn't subbed much during the icecrown raid or the tournament raid. I raided like crazy during naxx and ulduar(still my favorite raid). I also started at in the original beta, vanilla wow still probably has stolen the most of my life.

 

[Robin64]

The new PvP sytem, with ease of entry and skill > gear, means I'll probably return to this aspect of the game in Legion. I played a few 110 BGs on beta this week and they felt pretty good. Fights felt like fights, where on live I just get one hit by some Supreme Awesome Gladiator or whatever.

 

[HunRevan]

Whats the ETA for the pre-patch?

 

[Robin64]

Whats the ETA for the pre-patch?

"We will be performing scheduled maintenance beginning on Tuesday, July 19th, 05:00 (PDT) and we expect the service to be available again at approximately 11:00 (PDT)."

So add a few hours to that, probably.

 

[Robin64]

This is a great little tool.

http://www.kruithne.net/recipes/

Pop in your details and scroll down to the Unavailable section to see if you can craft anything that is no longer available to learn. Boom, extra goldmine.

 

[Micapo]

0 Big Crates of salvage left. Garrison resources spent. What a time to be alive.

Only thing I haven't decided on if I'm gonna trade my ~10k Primal Spirits (spread out on 2 servers on several characters) for Savage Bloods and then those for golden purses of blood or whatever they're called or not. What did you guys do with your primal spirits and savage bloods?

 

[Tacitus_]

Wrath babies were the worst.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

This is a great little tool.

http://www.kruithne.net/recipes/

Pop in your details and scroll down to the Unavailable section to see if you can craft anything that is no longer available to learn. Boom, extra goldmine.

But, but...

My main has enchanting and alchemy

No one needs outdated consumables.

I don't think I have any other Wrath-era characters (at least on my main server now) that would have stuff.

I know I have a learned rich purple silk shirt recipe on a level ~40 priest on a backwater server. Could try and make some gold there. But that's not unobtainable, just rare.

 

[Tenebrous]

This is a great little tool.

http://www.kruithne.net/recipes/

Pop in your details and scroll down to the Unavailable section to see if you can craft anything that is no longer available to learn. Boom, extra goldmine.

Flawless Arcanite Rifle.

Still, kinda cool to have 100% on both my main profs (well, except for one engineering recipe we shall never talk about).

 

[Rhaknar]

Wrath was the death of wow. People think it was cata, but the insane burnout from the wotlk drought, the mass welfare epics, the acceptance of bad pugs, the avoidance of pvp balance, the dawn of official ilvl. It was the breaking point. Also the zones and leveling are trash, I dont think Ive ever even been to the random jungle zone in the top left of the map. The only redeeming thing is the lore.

the entitlement is palpable

 

[I'm an expert]

no clue what you want to say, so will assume youre agreeing with me

 

[Lanrutcon]

Loved Wrath. BC blew my little mind, but Wrath? Wrath was a new level of quality in my eyes.ICC during its prime was the pinnacle for me. Arthas was the endboss of WoW, bringing WC3 to a conclusion.

Not saying Cata/Mists/WoD didn't have their own areas of excellence, but I'll always remember Wrath as the high point.