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[Gemüsepizza]

A lot more than 1% of people do regular raids. Hell, that's probably the vast majority of the people left, since raiding is the only quality content once you hit 100 in this expansion.

I did not say that only 1% do regular raid. But their reward system is catering to the 1% in a way that is not healthy for the game. Even normal and heroic raiders got shat on with the those new second-rate tier set designs. Anyone below mythic level doesn't even receive a raid title anymore. They should focus on LFR, normal and heroic. Maybe make mythic an esport thing. But the message they are giving now to people who don't raid mythic is "Sorry, you're just a pleb. Enjoy your crappy items." They won't. They will just leave.

You're right. They make a game for a small % of their playerbase because they hate money, and their investors let them get away with it.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm? Because it doesn't work.

Besides the fact that they didn't really add anything to the raids besides valor points in 6.2.3, it's mostly 5 man content anyway.

5 man content which was released years ago.

Also, the game started to hit rock-bottom after LFR was introduced. People don't stick around if they can beat everything in one sitting. There's no point in playing if you can clear it right when it's unlocked, thats why they stagger the release dates of the wings now, so people stick around instead of one-and-done'ing it.

Jesus Christ. You can't be serious? Correlation does not imply causation. The introduction of LFR has nothing to do with players leaving.

Stop and ask yourself this. When was the game hardest, or most time consuming? Now, when did the game have the most subscribers?

It's obvious.

The times are changing. People demand better games, more content to play. They are not willing to put up with this shit anymore. You are also once again confusing correlation with causality. Just because more people were playing at that time, doesn't mean that it's because the game was so hard. There are countless other reasons for this.

And if what you say would be true, Blizzard should now begin to make content much harder, introduce attunements, buff farming, remove LFR/LFD and much more. Believe me, you don't want to see this happening.

 

[ampere]

Just read the patch notes. Cute, but that won't stop the sub loss. Blizzard needs to stop shitting on the average gamer, and they need to stop catering to mythic raiders. They need to realize that the times are changing and that you can't build a game around a few hardcore gamers anymore. But they don't seem to get it. They didn't even adress the LFR situation in any way. I will wait until Blizzcon, but if they continue on this path I'm gone.

If LFR has too many rewards it discourages participation in normal/heroic/mythic, which they want people to do. Otherwise not sure what you are getting at

 

[Gemüsepizza]

If LFR has too many rewards it discourages participation in normal/heroic/mythic, which they want people to do. Otherwise not sure what you are getting at

And that's a problem why? Because I don't think that's Blizzard's problem right now. Their problem right now is players are leaving in droves. So you can either insist that LFR doesn't deserve those items and then deal with the sub loss, or you can revert the LFR changes and have people sub again.

I mean the the LFR system in MoP did work. Why did they saw a need to change it? And don't get me wrong, that was not the only thing that was wrong with WoD. They are trying to fix at least some of the other problems, like not having enough 5 man content. But I don't think that's enough.

 

[phierce]

People have left and are leaving due to a lack of content and content not being released quickly enough, not just because of what the content is.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Believe me, you don't want to see this happening.

Why? Cause the game will be fun again AND I get to read more salty forum posts?

Whatever would I do.

Blizzards current financial strategy:

1.) Make content nobody does
2.) ???
3.) Profit.


You remind me of the PvPers who insist the most important thing in the game is PvP, and most people play the game to PvP. If that were really the case, why were all the WoD PvP features cut besides Ashran? You really think Ashran would be allowed to exist if a significant amount of subscriptions relied on it? You think people only sub to WoW to do LFR? What do you think they did before LFR? Sit around waiting for someone else to carry them?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Why? Cause the game will be fun again AND I get to read more salty forum posts?

Because the number of subscribers would drop to <1 million. That's why. But keep believing.

 

[Sax Russel]

Finished my 3rd ring tonight, both my alts are in mostly full heroic gear now too @_@. In MoP I somehow churned out 5 cloaks, but I don't see anything like that happening in WoD. I guess we've still got a..... while for Legion though, even optimistically.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Because the number of subscribers would drop to <1 million. That's why. But keep believing.

:lol

LFR ain't saving subscriptions. You could put Mythic Archimonde gear on every LFR boss and people would still be leaving.

 

[Maddrical]

And if what you say would be true, Blizzard should now begin to make content much harder, introduce attunements, buff farming, remove LFR/LFD and much more. Believe me, you don't want to see this happening.

I wish this would happen. It won't, though.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I think there's far, far more to WoW's sub decline than simply how difficult the content is and whether or not that challenge keeps players coming back. Wrath was an ENORMOUS expansion but at launch it had far and away the least challenging raids at launch. The sheer variety of content at max level is what kept me around. A storyline that was begging for conclusion from the end of Frozen Throne was finally getting some closure. The lore of each zone was fully fleshed out and tied back to things that had been simmering since Vanilla (Varimathras's betrayal). Daily quests and group quests gave you a reason to leave Dalaran, as well as ridiculous amounts of gold, rep, and gear rewards. World PvP objectives with PvE rewards made sure people kept that content going. 3 puggable raids at launch. Daily Heroic challenges. Rep grinds got you really cool mounts, item enchants and useful items. I mean, you always had something to do every day that advanced what you wanted out of an RPG, be it lore, gear, or economic gain.

And then the casual market left. I wouldn't strictly blame LFR, but rather the gradual erosion away of what kept everybody's interest in Wrath. No way WoW was going to maintain 10+M with Arthas dead. Just not a chance. The new lore was weird and kind of crap. More time was spent making sure content below the level cap was amazing, which meant long time players had no investment to go back and getting anything out of it, leaving them with a sense that the raid/pvp/dungeon content got shortchanged as a result (no Abyssal Depths raid, Well of Eternity got turned into a 5-man). Casuals came and went for the same reasons casual gamers come and go; their time got sucked into their cel phones and sitting in front of a computer for 3 hours a night just lost everybody's interest. Pandaria didn't stand a chance with them gone. WoD spent millions creating a mobile phone game experience in a subscription MMO, and kept that market's interest for about as long as your usual phone gamer invests in their phone games. GG, Blizz.

They probably can't reverse this trend, either. I'm pretty pessimistic about Legion, but I'm willing to let Blizzcon change my mind. We'll see.

 

[Daniel R]

I've played WoD for almost a year by now, and only just now I found that you could actually enter the tree in the southern part of the garrison.

How peculiar.

You need to go there for one of the garrison campaign quests. That is how I found out about it.

 

[ampere]

And that's a problem why? Because I don't think that's Blizzard's problem right now. Their problem right now is players are leaving in droves. So you can either insist that LFR doesn't deserve those items and then deal with the sub loss, or you can revert the LFR changes and have people sub again.

I mean the the LFR system in MoP did work. Why did they saw a need to change it? And don't get me wrong, that was not the only thing that was wrong with WoD. They are trying to fix at least some of the other problems, like not having enough 5 man content. But I don't think that's enough.

Rewards motivate players to do harder content and that's good design. People quit WoW because it's over 10 years old and hard to stay fresh and they don't release content fast enough. The solution is to get expacs out every 18 months or less and keep getting a lot of people to come back for that.

 

[Tarazet]

Rewards motivate players to do harder content and that's good design. People quit WoW because it's over 10 years old and hard to stay fresh and they don't release content fast enough. The solution is to get expacs out every 18 months or less and keep getting a lot of people to come back for that.

The rate that content patches have been coming out for games like Marvel Heroes, Warframe... hell, even the lowly SW:TOR is about to have its fifth expansion pack and the game was released less than 4 years ago. Blizzard needs to get their heads out of their asses and do something to justify our sub fees.

 

[strafer]

Wow, they really care about this Pepe thing.

Twitter is blowing up.

 

[Robin64]

Wow, they really care about this Pepe thing.

Twitter is blowing up.

Can't say I do, though. Feels forced.

 

[StMeph]

LFR ain't saving subscriptions. You could put Mythic Archimonde gear on every LFR boss and people would still be leaving.

This.

Rewards motivate players to do harder content and that's good design. People quit WoW because it's over 10 years old and hard to stay fresh and they don't release content fast enough. The solution is to get expacs out every 18 months or less and keep getting a lot of people to come back for that.

If LFR rained Mythic gear, it wouldn't make a single difference because it wouldn't do anything to prolong a user's subscription. Once they're done with gearing from LFR, they're done, and there's nothing that would push them to move on to Normal or higher. Many do, but there's obviously a vocal share of players who only want to do LFR, yet demand better rewards for it.

But people DO seem to come back for expansions, and WoD had a huge bump in returning players between the included level 90 boost and the setting (for whatever inexplicable reason).

 

[Entropia]

Wow, they really care about this Pepe thing.

Twitter is blowing up.

Can't say I do, though. Feels forced.

Twitter/people clinged to Pepe, so Blizzard like any sane corporation started shoving it in our faces.

 

[Tacitus_]

Pepe is love, Pepe is life.

 

[ampere]

I drink a lot of water

#ifoundpeepee

 

[Schweinehund]

It is pretty absurd that they are making tier pieces so rare (& powerful) this expansion, and it's obvious they're doing it as a carrot on a stick. I think this is the longest I've taken to get a 4 piece (think this will be the 8th week clearing normal) and I feel like I'm holding the raid back without my 4p.

I personally don't care if the set pieces are in LFR or not but world bosses should still drop the pieces.

I wouldn't quit if I got my 4p either, I'd probably quit once I kill heroic archimonde. Not because of achievements because that's basically where the game ends for me. I don't have the time investment or the willpower for mythic raiding.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

But people DO seem to come back for expansions, and WoD had a huge bump in returning players between the included level 90 boost and the setting (for whatever inexplicable reason).

Even though I knew they were trying to be manipulative, I was still excited to have my nostalgia tickled.

But they totally...pointlessly..took us back to Draenor. Instead of giving us Shattrath as a raid or Tempest Keep 2.0, we got..ogres and orcs.

Instead of having the Black Temple as our capital city, we got garrisons.

Hell the most connection we got was Gruul, who was 1/4th his normal size and barely had the same mechanics as his BC self. Other than that it was the biggest waste of time ever.

 

[Robin64]

I really do hope they let races other than orcs have a spotlight in Legion. Just need a little break from them.

 

[Fjordson]

Instead of having the Black Temple as our capital city, we got garrisons.

This was a real bummer for me. Always love getting new cities.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I really do hope they let races other than orcs have a spotlight in Legion. Just need a little break from them.

Legion sounds like it will be spotlighting NEs and Tauren.

 

[dimb]

Legion sounds like it will be spotlighting NEs and Tauren.

Tauren? They don't even have a highlighted representative...

 

[jaundicejuice]

My sub ran out last night, while I've got another time card I don't really feel the need to use it. I didn't even use any of the time in my last couple of weeks. I might come back for Legion but it can't be WoD 2.0.

 

[Jag]

This was a real bummer for me. Always love getting new cities.

I don't think we're getting a new city in Legion. Just an improved Dalaran I think?

 

[Fjordson]

I don't think we're getting a new city in Legion. Just an improved Dalaran I think?

I think you're right. Still, I'll like that way more than Stormshield / Garrisons. Even original Dalaran is still cool imo.

 

[Severance]

I resubscribed to WoW after leaving during Cataclysm and spending a couple years with FFXIV. Coming back has a lot to do with Legion for sure. Anyway I can't help but feel that a lot of WoW's subscriber loss has to do with it being.. old. I can't believe it's been (almost) 11 years. WoW is not the pop culture icon it once was. I simply think the market for a $14.99/month MMORPG is shrinking. FFXIV caters to casuals and has much less hardcore raiding available.its definitely lost subscribers after its first expansion which released 6 months ago

Anyway I'm glad to be back. I'm just digging in to Warlords of Draenor but it feels good. WoW still has some magic to it. Even after 11 years no other MMO has been able to match the complete WoW experience. We will see what the future holds and whether it keeps me around.

 

[Fjordson]

Anyway I'm glad to be back. I'm just digging in to Warlords of Draenor but it feels good. WoW still has some magic to it. Even after 11 years no other MMO has been able to match the complete WoW experience. We will see what the future holds and whether it keeps me around.

Totally agree. I came back a few weeks ago after letting my sub drop earlier this year (late March I think it was) and it's been a lot of fun.. WoW doesn't quite hold my attention 24/7, all year every year like it used to, but it's still a blast for me whenever I do come back.

And I'm still at the point where any new WoW expansion gets me excited so I'm very much looking forward to Legion.

 

[RoninChaos]

It's also losing subs because the only thing to do is raid. There's nothing else. That's the biggest problem. Even the garrison funnels you into raiding.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Tauren? They don't even have a highlighted representative...

Actually yeah, Undead will probably get more shine, but we're supposed to be finding a long lost tribe of Tauren in the Broken Isles, IIRC.

 

[StormyTheRabbit]

Actually yeah, Undead will probably get more shine, but we're supposed to be finding a long lost tribe of Tauren in the Broken Isles, IIRC.

You recall correctly. They are descended from moose.

 

[dimb]

Actually yeah, Undead will probably get more shine, but we're supposed to be finding a long lost tribe of Tauren in the Broken Isles, IIRC.

This sounds like the kind of lore that would actually make me mad.

 

[CassSept]

Actually yeah, Undead will probably get more shine, but we're supposed to be finding a long lost tribe of Tauren in the Broken Isles, IIRC.

That's what, a third long-lost Tauren tribe?

Can we start guessing what long-lost Tauren tribe we will meet in the 8th expansion?

 

[JSoup]

That's what, a third long-lost Tauren tribe?

Can we start guessing what long-lost Tauren tribe we will meet in the 8th expansion?

 

[iirate]

Actually yeah, Undead will probably get more shine, but we're supposed to be finding a long lost tribe of Tauren in the Broken Isles, IIRC.

You recall correctly. They are descended from moose.

This sounds like the kind of lore that would actually make me mad.

That's what, a third long-lost Tauren tribe?

Can we start guessing what long-lost Tauren tribe we will meet in the 8th expansion?

Is sorta more important than just another tribe this time, since we're going to Highmountain, the original homeland of the tauren.

Even then, yeah, we'll probably be lucky to even get archaeology fragments for them.

 

[StMeph]

Is sorta more important than just another tribe this time, since we're going to Highmountain, the original homeland of the tauren.

So the original home of cow-people was on a mountaintop.

What the fuck.

 

[Entropia]

So I hit 100 on a Warrior I was leveling on Ciaossu's server. I went Gladiator spec, seems like it's pretty fun too

 

[Dinjooh]

So I hit 100 on a Warrior I was leveling on Ciaossu's server. I went Gladiator spec, seems like it's pretty fun too

Warriors have a spec called Gladiator?

The fuck?

I even have a Warrior close to level 90, what the actual fuck.

 

[Entropia]

Warriors have a spec called Gladiator?

The fuck?

I even have a Warrior close to level 90, what the actual fuck.

It's technically Protection spec, but there is a level 100 talent choice called Gladiator spec. It's basically a Prot DPS stance.

 

[Dinjooh]

It's technically Protection spec, but there is a level 100 talent choice called Gladiator spec. It's basically a Prot DPS stance.

I'm guessing this was a 6.0 thing?

I should probably go back and read a summary since there's obviously something I've missed big time.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's just a sword and board dps stance that you can't switch from once you've entered combat. It's for warriors who don't have (or don't want) 2 sets of gear just so they can contribute to the numbers. It used to be stupidly overpowered but has since gotten nerfed into oblivion.

 

[ampere]

Glad is decent, but the problem is that Warriors have 2 other dps specs that are better at single target (Fury) and cleave (Arms). So it doesn't really have a niche

3 dps specs for a hybrid is too many. It's generally been too many for pures too

 

[Gentleman Jack]

3 dps specs for a hybrid is too many. It's generally been too many for pures too

Ain't that the truth.

"Good spec, good spec, shit spec for suckers" is how it's been for every pure DPS spec every raid tier this expansion.

 

[Dog Problems]

Are there totem weapons in the game? I saw a Tauren NPC using one. I did a Google search and found old stuff saying there is nothing like that in the game so I thought I'd ask and see if that's changed.

 

[JSoup]

Are there totem weapons in the game? I saw a Tauren NPC using one. I did a Google search and found old stuff saying there is nothing like that in the game so I thought I'd ask and see if that's changed.

Nope (or at least not yet, maybe with Legion super weapons). The Tauren NPC you saw was Olin Umberhide, who is supposed to be that Tauren from the Vanilla intro movie.

 

[Tacitus_]

Nope (or at least not yet, maybe with Legion super weapons). The Tauren NPC you saw was Olin Umberhide, who is supposed to be that Tauren from the Vanilla intro movie.

There are also NPCs who have totems as weapons. Tauren Warriors in the Hyjal raid at least.

 

[Dog Problems]

Ah, thanks for the info. I figured there would be totem weapons in the game by now.

 

[Schweinehund]

Any arms warriors lurking?

Got my 4p & arch trinket and was fooling around making arms my OS for certain fights. Confused as to how the rotation values sudden death & siege breaker now. Icy-veins says to only spam mortal strike during Colossus Smash, so siegebreaker when CS and MS are off CD within a CS window or do I want until CS debuff is gone and both are on cooldown? Also curious if I should just spam Colossus Smash as soon as it refreshes or if I should wait for the current debuff to drop.

edit: Oh, looks like taste for blood is better than sudden death. Well that solves one issue.