I agree.
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World of Warcraft |OT8| CITIZENS OF DALARAN
- Thread starter ampere
- Start date
:^)
Not really my point. Some specs are bad but they look worse when nobody wants to play them but stubborn idiots.
Lanrutcon
Member
let me have my fun goddamnit T_T
i don't see how this argument makes sense. nobody is playing specs like arcane because theorycrafting, backed up by somewhat inaccurate sims, has suggested that arcane is performing very poorly. now there's some preliminary data and it suggests that.............arcane is performing very poorly.
there are a couple of niche situations where arcane performs well, but it's based on a style of play (NT-quickening) that is quite pathological and very clearly unintentional.
NumberThree
Member
Warlocks are bad because it's idiots who can't play their class properly playing them. Makes perfect sense.
I think the idea is a follow-the-crowd effect which prematurely drains the faction/class of its talent pool thus not giving it a chance to stack up fairly. E.g. Alliance arena PvP.
Lanrutcon
Member
HOW I CAHOSBOLT
wut is havok
lol wand dmage ftw
why deeps so low?!?!
I play a Warlock. Don't judge me.
Some specs have few parses and are much higher and lower than they should be. Arcane is the highest spec for Ursoc H because there are seven parses. In some cases only dedicated players stick with a class, but in others, the numbers look worse because any player serious about their damage knew to stop playing a spec. Like...if you are playing PvE DK and care about your damage you should already know not to play Frost. When fights have few or no parses on multiple fights the numbers are not wholly representative of where things are at.
It's a world quest that appears once every three days, but the world quest is consumed when you *enter* the Withered Training; if you're forced out of it then you don't get it back. You should see it again in a day or two.
Regarding the old god whispers: They're the Old Gods. Are we quite sure they're telling the truth... or lying in order to corrupt us?
Am I the next raid boss?
I think my group is going to get addicted to the mythic+ scoreboard. We weren't planning on pushing past Mythic 4 but then someone beat us on our level 4 keystone time.
Of course our current level 5 keystones are Arcway and Court of Stars. The latter isn't that scary but I've only run the place once and don't know the optimal route. The minigame at the end would make speedruns very amusing for sure.
How does mythic+ gear upgrading work? From what I've seen it goes up 5 item levels each keystone level? So 640 for mythic 1, 645 for 2, 650 for 3 so on. But you can get mythic gear above the level of the dungeon you did, and it can warforge/titanforge. Only the 'level' gear upgrades is capped right now and warforging works fine. We got several 655 items last night.
The best thing about it is the crazy amounts of AP you get from multiple chests. I'll have my next level of artifact knowledge tonight so it'll be even better.
Of course our current level 5 keystones are Arcway and Court of Stars. The latter isn't that scary but I've only run the place once and don't know the optimal route. The minigame at the end would make speedruns very amusing for sure.
How does mythic+ gear upgrading work? From what I've seen it goes up 5 item levels each keystone level? So 640 for mythic 1, 645 for 2, 650 for 3 so on. But you can get mythic gear above the level of the dungeon you did, and it can warforge/titanforge. Only the 'level' gear upgrades is capped right now and warforging works fine. We got several 655 items last night.
The best thing about it is the crazy amounts of AP you get from multiple chests. I'll have my next level of artifact knowledge tonight so it'll be even better.
of course they aren't wholly representative taken on their own, but they aren't. they're backed up by theorycrafting and simulation results. evidently more hard data is needed before we can speak with better confidence about how good or bad a particular class is but i think we're past the point where we need to hold our tongues on saying that warlocks, arcane and frost mages, and DKs need significant work. they're underperforming pretty badly.
Now I want a boss where players have to *deliberately* get themselves killed due to some mechanic, with a free rez, and failing to do so would do something unpleasant to the raid.
i mean, while the idea that they're lies does make sense from the point of view of the old gods being deceivers, sprinkling a bunch of outright false 'spoilers' into the game seems kind of lame from a narrative payoff perspective
if there was more narrative interactivity in wow--like say if you could tell khadgar "i'm not really sure whether assembling these things is a good idea, i think an old god was telling me that they're keys to n'zoth's prison", then i could see it making sense. but since you can't (barring some sort of realm-wide quest where the populace decides whether to do it or not)...
The way it worked on beta was: +2/3=845, 4/5=850, 6/7=855, 7/8=860, 10+=865. Currently I think its suppose to be capped at base ilvl of 850 for the first week but like you said it can still titanforge.
I haven't done all raids in all expansions but I believe Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple was exactly that. You had to die and do stuff as a ghost.
You didn't die *deliberately*, though. You were selected for death, tried to die as elegantly as possible (i.e. far enough from Gorefiend), then played through the ghost minigame before dying 'properly'.
Just a mechanic of "Boss is immune, damage dealt to player X hurts the boss, adds exist where if ability Y hits player X, they die instantly without harming the boss" would be interesting, I think.
I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice going Frost DK now. It definitely feels underwhelming in DPS, but I do still find the spec fun.
I'd rather drink paint stripper than play Unholy, so my only alternative would be to level a different class. And then go through gearing up again. And AP grinding. And Suramar progression to unlock two dungeons. I'd honestly rather just quit than do that again, so I guess I'll be sticking with Frost and hoping Blizzard fix it. At least I have a guild that is happy for me to remain Frost.
And to think I was tempted to main Havoc DH before the expansion released. Kicking myself for that now :/
I'd rather drink paint stripper than play Unholy, so my only alternative would be to level a different class. And then go through gearing up again. And AP grinding. And Suramar progression to unlock two dungeons. I'd honestly rather just quit than do that again, so I guess I'll be sticking with Frost and hoping Blizzard fix it. At least I have a guild that is happy for me to remain Frost.
And to think I was tempted to main Havoc DH before the expansion released. Kicking myself for that now :/
neurosisxeno
Member
I wouldn't worry about it. That fight is probably a bad indicator, it was my impression that Ursoc was the closest to a Patchwerk style encounter. Generally it's Outlaw > Assassination > Sub for Normal, but Sub isn't too terrible. The problem is mostly that not a lot of people are playing Subtlety. If you look at any fight Sub doesn't even show up on the list because there are too few samples to draw from. Looking at the Parses for each fight, there is literally 1 entry for Sub on Heroic Dragons of Nightmare. If you do something like Ursoc Normal, Sub is middle of the pack and about 8-10% behind Outlaw/Assassination.
To view various settings go here; https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/
I think the issue is that most people heard Outlaw was going to be the highest DPS spec, so they leveled Outlaw and are still ignoring their other artifacts because they want to get those traits unlocked ASAP. Give it a little bit (like a month) and you might start to see more people playing the other 2 specs, and the damage might change. Or you could get into a raiding guild, get on some parses that prove it's viable and enlighten people
We will know their intentions soon enough. They are supposed to be doing a sweeping balance pass after getting this weeks raid data. I'm leveling my Rogue just in case the changes to Frost DK aren't in line with what is needed. Frost DK needs a boost in the 30% range, and if that doesn't appear to be happening I'm swapping mains.
wait until the first balance pass. if blizzard fuck that up badly then i'd start to consider rolling a different class or spec.
withered training with hunter was whatever, I dont need any more chests but I still cleared it because...I dont know why. I started with 650 mana only and ill just do 400 next time, just need the rep now.
Great run with the monk tho, 2 large chests 2 medium chests, 550 score, 3 upgrades for the next run AND 850 boots from the chest to upgrade my 830 ones. Very happy
Went as Windwalker, who needs tanks
Great run with the monk tho, 2 large chests 2 medium chests, 550 score, 3 upgrades for the next run AND 850 boots from the chest to upgrade my 830 ones. Very happy
Went as Windwalker, who needs tanks
I don't know how you manage those outdated numbn\ers to show up, cuz those are all wrong. Can't put a pic cuz im at work but ill keep it with a link directly to what you posted
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/#aggregate=amount
neurosisxeno
Member
He only showed Dragons of Nightmare. I could skew it as well by only showing Il'gynoth.
As I said, Ursoc is probably the best indicator of class potential. Here.
Lanrutcon
Member
burning all the way through 1 mana bar with AP, RoP and horn of valor up,evocating, then burning through a second mana bar on 4 arcane charges without conserve because the boss is nearly dead = 3k dps higher than the tank on mythic+ arcway. thanks blizzard, great dps class!
neurosisxeno
Member
Lots of fights have lots of different mechanics. This is like saying Butcher was indicative of the class balance in Highmaul when stuff like Enhance was super busted on stuff that was actually hard like Imperator.
Our guild finally got its first legendary. A Demon Hunter got the boots! http://www.wowdb.com/items/137022
Yeah my Pally is on this too
Thank god for the companion app, this morning the 2nd(I hope) last one I needed to do completed right as the servers shut down.
Although it was strange, the mission had like 12 minutes left when the announcement of 15 minutes kicked in... the servers went down about 30 seconds before the mission finished.
neurosisxeno
Member
That's exactly what I'm saying. A fight like Il'gynoth is would show a spec like Assassination as garbage because switching targets crushes our DPS, when in fact for every other fight Assassination is like top 5 and generally at least as good as Outlaw (according to Heroic parses at least).
I wouldn't worry about it. That fight is probably a bad indicator, it was my impression that Ursoc was the closest to a Patchwerk style encounter. Generally it's Outlaw > Assassination > Sub for Normal, but Sub isn't too terrible. The problem is mostly that not a lot of people are playing Subtlety. If you look at any fight Sub doesn't even show up on the list because there are too few samples to draw from. Looking at the Parses for each fight, there is literally 1 entry for Sub on Heroic Dragons of Nightmare. If you do something like Ursoc Normal, Sub is middle of the pack and about 8-10% behind Outlaw/Assassination.
To view various settings go here; https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/
I think the issue is that most people heard Outlaw was going to be the highest DPS spec, so they leveled Outlaw and are still ignoring their other artifacts because they want to get those traits unlocked ASAP. Give it a little bit (like a month) and you might start to see more people playing the other 2 specs, and the damage might change. Or you could get into a raiding guild, get on some parses that prove it's viable and enlighten people
Appreciate it
I'm sticking with sub no matter what but this post put my mind somewhat at ease
It's a pvp talent (which is kind of an awkward system), so it's not gone completely
they really should have had a beta.
Because it's one of the best melee dps specs in the game?
Not in PvP it isn't.
The primary point of what I was saying was that the Patchwerk sim is not really very valuable with the way bosses are designed in modern WoW, and people should probably stop using it to tear others down. It would be nice if people would stop tearing others down period, though.
withered training with hunter was whatever, I dont need any more chests but I still cleared it because...I dont know why. I started with 650 mana only and ill just do 400 next time, just need the rep now.
Great run with the monk tho, 2 large chests 2 medium chests, 550 score, 3 upgrades for the next run AND 850 boots from the chest to upgrade my 830 ones. Very happy
Went as Windwalker, who needs tanks
Yeah, I'm finding withered training generally easy as windwalker due to all of the cleave abilities it has to easily pick up stuff around it. But I still haven't cracked 400 score, because I always end up getting killed by Dro.
ToyMachine228
Member
Can anyone recommend any good tools for seeing how an item will change your DPS compared to an item that you currently have equipped?
All those meter logs seem so hard to trust. So many variables and changing rankings depending on a few factors. Look at how Retribution paladin is #1 by a mile right up to iLevel 841, then drops like a stone.
I guess it's nice to see Shadow Priest consistently high. We deserve some time in the spotlight after all these years.
edit-
Also, I'm realizing every guide out there says to go for a different second golden trait than I did on my Xal'atath. How fucked am I? I know we'll all have all the traits eventually (next month), but fuck. I wish the respec cost wasn't so high. I've invested 86k AP into the weapon so far, and it would cost 24k now to refund that. Too big a price.
I guess it's nice to see Shadow Priest consistently high. We deserve some time in the spotlight after all these years.
edit-
Also, I'm realizing every guide out there says to go for a different second golden trait than I did on my Xal'atath. How fucked am I? I know we'll all have all the traits eventually (next month), but fuck. I wish the respec cost wasn't so high. I've invested 86k AP into the weapon so far, and it would cost 24k now to refund that. Too big a price.
https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn
The screenshots don't really give you a good idea of what it does but basically: You input the stat weights for your class/spec, and then you can compare an item vs. what you have equipped and it'll help indicate if it's a true upgrade or not.
My only issue is that if you're playing multiple classes/specs you have to search around to find the best (and most reliable) stat weights.
Example of how it works:
I'm an Elemental Shaman have an 845 Neck on with Versatility and Mastery on it.
I get a drop for a 840 neck that has Haste and Crit on it.
It does a comparison, and I've indicated that Crit is my best stat, Haste is neck, Versaility slightly behind haste, and mastery is at the bottom.
It'll give them both a 'score' which will tell me that the 840 neck with haste/crit is better.