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World of Warcraft |OT8| CITIZENS OF DALARAN

M

Milennia

Member
Osaka said:
I'm not disagreeing, obviously this was the first time Mythic was cleared the day it got released, but I mean, Lei Shen was more difficult than Ra-Den, for example. That was my point.

However, I don't really think this is that big of a deal. Clearing Mythic EN will still take some more time for the majority of raiding guilds. Only 16 guilds have cleared it so far. We'll see how long Legion's content will last, with Blizzard hyping up the amount of shit they're gonna put out there.
Click to expand...

A big point here is that it doesn't matter if it's their first half tier or not, when simply buffing health values would make fights like elerethe actually good and ilgynoth would be the best boss on the instance, it's very simple and they have already admitted internally content was undertuned

I don't think this will happen with nighthold judging from their most recent testing at least
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
Milennia said:
A big point here is that it doesn't matter if it's their first half tier or not, when simply buffing health values would make fights like elerethe actually good and ilgynoth would be the best boss on the instance, it's very simple and they have already admitted internally content was undertuned
Click to expand...

But what's the alternative? Tuning the content so legendaries are required for 99% of the playerbase to overcome the challenge? Making it so people who want to progres solely through raids are gonna hit a roadblock when entering mythic because they didn't do as many mythics & roll as much titanforged as other folks?

When you design your entire loot system about RNG & give people a means to exploit it in their favour, then tuning for everyone is just flatout impossible.
 
J

jaundicejuice

Member
Call me weird but I sorta like fishing.

3/4's of my current gold output on this Holy Pali is from selling the low level crafting mats (herbs, bolts of cloth and different kinds of leather) you get from the sealed chests you can fish up from schools of fish. The distortion on gold from WoD and Legion makes even low level crafting mats move for a decent price. Well, the gold and people being lazy in general.
 
M

Milennia

Member
Tenebrous said:
But what's the alternative? Tuning the content so legendaries are required for 99% of the playerbase to overcome the challenge? Making it so people who want to progres solely through raids are gonna hit a roadblock when entering mythic because they didn't do as many mythics & roll as much titanforged as other folks?

When you design your entire loot system about RNG & give people a means to exploit it in their favour, then tuning for everyone is just flatout impossible.
Click to expand...

Yep this is for certain an issue however this content was tuned for 850 base meanwhile the content that tier of gear is available in is fairly low and serves as the perfect base for players wanting to get into mythic, this was ridiculous needless to say

You can down elerethe on the second platform with ease and you can kill xavius in 9 attempts as a fresh guild on their first kill
 
O

Osaka

Did not ask for this tag
Milennia said:
A big point here is that it doesn't matter if it's their first half tier or not, when simply buffing health values would make fights like elerethe actually good and ilgynoth would be the best boss on the instance, it's very simple and they have already admitted internally content was undertuned

I don't think this will happen with nighthold judging from their most recent testing at least
Click to expand...

Another thing is the amount of RNG in gearing nowadays so when the fights that might have some sort of dps checks in them, are balanced around your average joe's gear, guilds with a lot of luck with good legendaries will have an advantage early on. That, paired with pure undertuning and the fact that they did class balancing/buffing on the same reset (without looking at the raid tuning also), got us where we are now.

Still though, I doubt even Nighthold will be tuned so that people who put their real lives on the backburner, piss in bottles and raid 10 hours a day for a week or two, will find the thing very challenging. At that point, it'll be too challenging for the general population (of which most raid like 2-4 evenings a week).

Best of luck to Midwinter in Nighthold.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Honestly the Legendary thing seems to be an experiment.

Both the World Quest/Bounty system and the Legendary system is taken from Diablo 3. The Legendaries don't fundamentally change the way you play a character except under specific conditions. Most of them alter a skill.

Compared to say, Tarecgosas staff, none of the legendaries match the power of those type of legendaries. It seems people have an issue with the fact that they're so high ilvl compared to regular drops-

Maybe they could've made the Legendaries start at 840/850, and then having people spend order resources in order to upgrade them. But I feel that Legendaries don't really make them a necessary requirement.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
M

Milennia

Member
Osaka said:
Another thing is the amount of RNG in gearing nowadays so when the fights that might have some sort of dps checks in them, are balanced around your average joe's gear, guilds with a lot of luck with good legendaries will have an advantage early on. That, paired with pure undertuning and the fact that they did class balancing/buffing on the same reset (without looking at the raid tuning also), got us where we are now.

Still though, I doubt even Nighthold will be tuned so that people who put their real lives on the backburner, piss in bottles and raid 10 hours a day for a week or two, will find the thing very challenging. At that point, it'll be too challenging for the general population (of which most raid like 2-4 evenings a week).

Best of luck to Midwinter in Nighthold.
Click to expand...

Currently during testing the instance is tuned much tighter scaled to 890+ gear which will be more than we have going in most likely so I'm looking forward to the instance spell blade in particular feels like more of a progress boss that anything in EN combined

Ty for best wishes we hope to do well
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Anyone testing Kara in the PTR? I need deets fam!
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Magnus said:
For all its supposed virtues, that addon seemed like huge fucking pain in the ass. I couldn't make sense of its options and menus at all. Wasn't worth it. I raid just fine without whatever it's supposed to do for me. I can't even remember what its purpose was. I get most of the alerts I need as is.
Click to expand...

It is very esoteric if you're not using other people's setups but the gist is Weakauras is a tool to tell you whatever you need to know however you want it to be known. Any encounter info Deadly Boss Mod provides, for example, can theoretically be remade in Weakauras if you dedicate a few weeks to designing it.

dapazRq.png


There's a lot of weaknesses of the default UI, most notably the amount of space your eyes have to travel to keep track of all your information. Top left for resources/target/party, top right for buffs/debuffs, bottom left to right for cooldowns, middle for procs and general information. A properly set up Weakauras reduces the amount of time you spend looking for information, giving you more time to process and react to information.
 
S

Sarcasm

Member
Why I just used a few other addons and everything is in the middle now lol.

Didn't have to spend hours following a tutorial to have it not end up like the tutorial. I don't have that much time to fiddle around especially since roughly three addons got me the results I wanted. Maybe in a few months when I have time I will attempt it again.

I found presets but they weren't useful heh.
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
Milennia said:
You can down elerethe on the second platform with ease and you can kill xavius in 9 attempts as a fresh guild on their first kill
Click to expand...

Willing to bet it takes us more than that, haha. Anything under 30 & I'll be pleased, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Only had 2 hours of mythic so far, but tonight (Sunday EU) we'll hopefully be able to take down Elerethe & Ursoc.

Data West said:
that is one busy interface
Click to expand...

worstui.jpg
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
I'm watching the Warcraft movie and it is not very good lol...Not that I expected otherwise of course.

I also expected it to be full of fan service but still... It's like they have a quota of references to the game to maintain.
 
R

Renekton

Member
Question: which class/spec right now has the least complexity for relatively decent DPS?

(accounting for mobile nature of Legion boss fights)
 
M

MrPing1000

Member
Did Mythic +9 Vault of the Wardens with my guild tonight.

Took 1hr35mins :D Second boss is insanely hard with necrotic. Think we wiped 10-12 times on it.

Was a lot of fun though, felt like an achievement just killing him (rest of the bosses were pretty easy) Then of course I get a mythic 9 ring with high haste on it, bad for resto shaman.
 
V

v1perz53

Member
Rizzi said:
I know that. I wanted more crit. :(
Click to expand...

Leech (and other tertiary stats like speed) don't take the place of other stats, they are in addition. Without the leech you'd have gotten the same crit, but no leech. Never complain about leech, greatest thing blizz has ever implemented!

Finished a Mythic +7 today with some friends, felt pretty good. Overflowing is harder than I thought it would be, especially when your healer is quite drunk. A little irritating that the debuff lasts a minute and persists out of combat, so if you mess up and don't wanna start the next pull with a 2 million absorb shield on your tank, they need to remove a piece of gear and put it back to get below 100% HP so you can actually heal off the shield.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Honestly, I hope Blizzard learns that people are sick enough of RNG and that Legion's emphasis on it is going to drive people away from it long-term because there are no static goals and it's all random luck based.

This is, by far, the biggest fault of this expansion. And could be the thing to put me off it long-term. RNG has always been too much in WoW. They needed less of it, not to double down on it.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Data West said:
Honestly, I hope Blizzard learns that people are sick enough of RNG and that Legion's emphasis on it is going to drive people away from it long-term because there are no static goals and it's all random luck based.

This is, by far, the biggest fault of this expansion. And could be the thing to put me off it long-term. RNG has always been too much in WoW. They needed less of it, not to double down on it.
Click to expand...

So instead of 840 gear in a mythic with the chance of it becoming much better, it would be better if it was just 840 forever? Wouldnt that just make stuff irrelevant much faster?

Hell I do some heroics still to help out some friends or something and in the back of my mind I think "well at least there's a chance I can get lucky and get a upgrade".

What am I missing? Or is it about the legendaries?
 
V

v1perz53

Member
I know its weird to a lot of people but as someone who doesn't raid in any kind of progression sense, I... quite like the RNG systems in the game. When I was gearing up and around 840 ilvl, it was so awesome to get an 850 item from a heroic. Or when I did that world quest today and the relic was upgraded to 875. Same with legendaries. I just do Mythic+ with friends, and I'm the only one with a legendary (and it is a pretty bad one). We've still cleared mythic+ +7 just fine, and I'm sure anyone in our group will be super excited when they get their legendary, I know I was pumped when I got mine even if it was kind of shit. All of the RNG, for my style of play, just ends up being nice bonuses on top of what I am doing. And I've never felt entitled to have BiS gear on my characters, so it doesn't bother me that other people have legendaries that make their character stronger than mine, maybe I'll get it one day maybe I won't, but my character is strong enough to do the content I want to do without it.

All that said, the system is AWFUL for raiding, especially higher end and progression. There will be plenty of guilds that recruit solely based on having a legendary, and players that will get sat for not having met RNG checks. I remember my days as a raid leader, and this system would be a nightmare if I still was.
 
T

Tarazet

Member
Tried soloing old raids today as Enhancement in 848 gear.

Mogu'shan Vaults 25H - faceroll, killed Elegon before he dropped the floor. Hardest boss was Four Kings because if you have two bosses up for too long, you can get permanently pinned which is a wipe.

Throne of Thunder 25H - cleared up to Dark Animus, which is utterly impossible to solo. Called it quits at that point because I'd already sunk 2 hours into the run and finished the important bosses to clear. Tortos and Primordius were super fun, challenging and hectic.

Highmaul 10N - Face-tanked Kargath and got him down on the second try. Insufficient DPS to kill Butcher before he smacks me down. I even tried Ascendance to front-load more damage but it didn't help.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
I also cant solo 25m normal Dark Animus, let alone heroic (well to be honest I only tried it one reset on normal, I didnt try heroic). Wiped like 5 times from being overwhelmed by the adds in seconds even with Monk rolls so I gave up. I really want T15 too :(

Oh thats right I did it normal because I wanted the green-ish T15 not the heroic red.
 
R

Renekton

Member
Rhaknar said:
So instead of 840 gear in a mythic with the chance of it becoming much better, it would be better if it was just 840 forever? Wouldnt that just make stuff irrelevant much faster?

Hell I do some heroics still to help out some friends or something and in the back of my mind I think "well at least there's a chance I can get lucky and get a upgrade".

What am I missing? Or is it about the legendaries?
Click to expand...
It seems to mostly cheese off hardcore players, but casuls like my friends couldn't be happier.

There is always something worthwhile doing.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
I found out recently the posse I play with, who ive known in wow since vanilla and have played with on and off, are all a bunch of old geezers like me. In fact at 37, im one of the youngest. One of the cats in our mythics is 47 (!).

I dont know why that surprised me (since the game is like 12 years old or whatever) but it did.

So what im saying is, get off my lawn damn it!
 
E

erawsd

Member
Rhaknar said:
So instead of 840 gear in a mythic with the chance of it becoming much better, it would be better if it was just 840 forever? Wouldnt that just make stuff irrelevant much faster?

Hell I do some heroics still to help out some friends or something and in the back of my mind I think "well at least there's a chance I can get lucky and get a upgrade".

What am I missing? Or is it about the legendaries?
Click to expand...

For me its solely the legendaries, outside of that I think titanforging and being able to trade personal loot make the "regular loot system" better than its ever been. However, when it comes to legendaries I would have preferred something more like MoP, which was still heavily influenced by RNG/luck rolls, but being able to see the progress I'm making toward it made a huge difference.
 
O

Osaka

Did not ask for this tag
erawsd said:
For me its solely the legendaries, outside of that I think titanforging and being able to trade personal loot make the "regular loot system" better than its ever been. However, when it comes to legendaries I would have preferred something more like MoP, which was still heavily influenced by RNG/luck rolls, but being able to see the progress I'm making toward it made a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Personally I didnt enjoy the "collect 1240 pebbles and turn em into a legendary"-quests of MoP and WoD. The items didnt feel very special to me like that.

Once they get the Legion legendary system to actually work and increase drop chance over time if you're being unlucky, I think it's not too RNG-ish. Once it's actually confirmed to work like that, people not getting a legendary can also think that "oh well, it'll drop eventually".

I think the Legion legendaries are a great carrot to do various content daily, and the surprise element of it is fun to me. Then again, I love Diablo 3 and have hundreds if not thousands of hours put into it.

I got my first (and only) legendary so far from a heroic Xavius kill.

The fact that the legendaries are random drops is also kind of cool in a social way, cos you share the "surprise moment" with your guild and it's not like just "oh yay you also got the 1240 pebbles now grats for achievement......". Not sure if I'm crazy but even the point where you can yell at your friend for getting their 3 legendary before you get your first. Way more engaging than some quest reward.
 
R

Rizzi

Member
v1perz53 said:
Leech (and other tertiary stats like speed) don't take the place of other stats, they are in addition. Without the leech you'd have gotten the same crit, but no leech. Never complain about leech, greatest thing blizz has ever implemented!

Finished a Mythic +7 today with some friends, felt pretty good. Overflowing is harder than I thought it would be, especially when your healer is quite drunk. A little irritating that the debuff lasts a minute and persists out of combat, so if you mess up and don't wanna start the next pull with a 2 million absorb shield on your tank, they need to remove a piece of gear and put it back to get below 100% HP so you can actually heal off the shield.
Click to expand...

Did not know that.
 
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