MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Val'Sharah emissary sucks, they have the worst world quests that give the least rewards
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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004
- Thread starter ampere
- Start date
Wut? Strange example you picked, H pal is probably the strongest DPS healer in Legion by a long shot. With the legendary belt, a H pal can out burst some DPS classes on ST fights. Depends on gear I guess, but my H pal certainly never felt like it killed things slowly. Might have more to do with how fast DPS scales this expansion (and comparatively how healers/tanks DPS scales less) than actually low healer DPS.
But more than anything, DPSing as a healer feels better rotationally in Legion. Most healers have an actual set of options for DPSing, with things to look out for and monitor versus the "spam this one button forever" that was the case a lot for healers before Legion DPS wise. For example, adding lava surge procs for resto shamans to give them an actual thing to look for when DPSing. And every healer has some option for AoE and some option for ST damage, so they can function at a baseline in all damage situations. Except interestingly enough disc priest, which has no baseline AoE damage ability...
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
They actually had to nerf holy paladin dps at one point so far this expac...
It was getting to be too good on tight checks like Mythic Guarm I think.
It was getting to be too good on tight checks like Mythic Guarm I think.
cartographer
Member
Holy pally can still be at DPS on a lot of M+ boss fights. Fight length is obviously a big factor, and set bonuses have widened the gap, but of that pally can get that burst in it can easily demolish a few specs still.
jaundicejuice
Member
Holy Priest feels alright in PVE. You've got a small damage rotation loop with Smite and Holy Nova providing resets on Holy Fire and Holy Word: Chastise (with a talent choice that causes Serendipity to affect your Holy Words). T'uure can proc and it mimics the damage of Smite, Holy Fire and Chastise as well as your heals.
Like yeah it's not as fast as a pure DPS but the biggest notable difference between maining an Arcane Mage and now a Holy Priest is that while the fights can a little longer you leave them relatively unscathed. I can even pull more mobs as a Holy Priest versus what I could as an Arcane Mage. You can't pull as much as a tank can in PVE, but you can pull more than a straight DPS. While your damage rotation is kind of simple you're also healing yourself through more damage than most dps classes can if they have self-sustain.
Playing PVE as a healer is slower in some ways but not necessarily worse.
Like yeah it's not as fast as a pure DPS but the biggest notable difference between maining an Arcane Mage and now a Holy Priest is that while the fights can a little longer you leave them relatively unscathed. I can even pull more mobs as a Holy Priest versus what I could as an Arcane Mage. You can't pull as much as a tank can in PVE, but you can pull more than a straight DPS. While your damage rotation is kind of simple you're also healing yourself through more damage than most dps classes can if they have self-sustain.
Playing PVE as a healer is slower in some ways but not necessarily worse.
Legion legendaries were included to give players a chance of being surprised by getting an awesome piece of equipment, something that has been missing from WoW for a while. If you could just pick your legendary it would totally eliminate this effect. I agree that some fix needs to be made to the current situation, but any fix that doesn't mesh with the designers original intentions will just prove to them that they should have had no legendaries at all.
I'm within a whisker of reaching rank 8 on the shaman. I'm literally looking for about 2% more dps which could just mean lucky procs, but it just underlines the fact that getting upgrades without raiding is daunting. I wouldn't say I've fallen behind the curve just yet, but 885 equipped and 43 points into Doomhammer is almost ordinary.
Actually this is exactly the use case for AP paragon traits as designed by blizzard. 43 points in your weapon means that you have more paragon points to spend, and 4 more points gets you exactly the 2% damage you need, which you can get without ever setting foot in a raid (or even playing the character from now till then, for that matter). Could technically grind that in random heroics or M+ in a day, albeit extremely tediously. Or just get it passively through order hall missions. Point is, you could never get another piece of gear and will eventually make up the 2% damage.
Which is kind of why the system sucks and is good at the same time. Not saying I like things this way, leads to some issues, but it seems situations like this are more or less what the system is there for.
HappyPuppy
Member
Hi Gaf
Interested in subbing but have a few questions.
How much gold can I make when I only have WoD? Interested in getting a token but I know money is made in the new expansion more efficiently.
Never really played tank before, created a Pally and thought it was fun. In terms of playstyle, How do the tanks differentiate themselves?
What servers are the "Gaf" servers? Checked the googlesheet and we are pretty spread out.
Interested in subbing but have a few questions.
How much gold can I make when I only have WoD? Interested in getting a token but I know money is made in the new expansion more efficiently.
Never really played tank before, created a Pally and thought it was fun. In terms of playstyle, How do the tanks differentiate themselves?
What servers are the "Gaf" servers? Checked the googlesheet and we are pretty spread out.
Dog Problems
Banned
They should have just copied Chen with it and placed the keg under the arm and kept the pole like normal, with it either being on the back or resting on the shoulder like the other Brewmaster appearances.
You can make a reasonable amount of gold even with only WoD, but some of the easiest methods for gold making won't be available to you. You can still run old raids, which is a decent source of gold when vendoring all mats, that is what I did back during WoD (though it was nerfed a bit since). Then once you have some capital to start with you can use it to play the AH, buy low sell high that type of stuff if you are so inclined, which doesn't really have a ceiling for gold earned, just depends on your luck and skill. Also some things where expansion doesn't matter can make solid gold, like battle pets, depending on your server.
There are a few ways tanks differentiate themselves now. All tanks for the most part have a few things in common: some form of active mitigation for physical and magical abilities (press this button quite often to boost your defense), a big "take less damage" type emergency ability, and reasonable ranged and AoE abilities for picking up mobs. They each have their own uniqueness, I'll try to go through them below:
- Druid: most would say is the most powerful tank right now, has a lot of HP and increases armor, so it has a smooth damage intake curve. Lots of short recharge defensive cooldowns. Pretty low on the DPS end tank wise.
- Pally: Has a ton of raid/party utility, with lots of blessings and ways to help teammates. A lot of damage reduction cooldowns as well. A bit of a spiky tank, designed around getting hit hard and dropping low, but being able to then use a defensive ability or a self heal to stabilize. Probably the tank with the highest DPS potential based on talents. Very low mobility, comparable with DK.
- Monk: Also strong, but feels weaker in easier content and stronger in harder content because of how stagger works, which is weird. Very mobile tank, but not a ton of damage reduction cooldowns available to it. A bit odd in how it takes damage, can never really be topped to full HP, so an issue for some healers to deal with.
- DH/DK - putting these together, these are the "self heal" style tanks, designed around taking spiky damage and then healing a lot of it themselves. Because of this and how legion works, they are seen as kind of weak, at least for raiding. DH is super mobile, probably the most mobile tank, while DK is the least mobile.
- War: Honestly, haven't played war tank since 7.1.5 when they totally changed how it worked, so not too sure how they play or where they stand. What I can say though is they have the lowest self healing of any tank (actual healing, they have plenty of "healing" through absorbs), but a lot of mobility, a good amount of offensive and defensive CDs, and some reasonable utility.
My personal favorites are druid and pally, in terms of power, playability, and fun, but lots of different opinions based on how you ask. As for GAF server, because of how raiding in WoW is, there isn't really a server, we are all scattered about. But you can do basically anything cross realm, so your server almost doesn't matter at all. Only thing that actually matters is faction.
HappyPuppy
Member
Sweet, thanks for the reply. Cool didn't know there were cross realm interactions, that's neat.
Question about Pally, is the healing gameplay similar to Holy Priest? I really enjoyed playing Prot Priest but Holy wasn't my thing, felt too whack-a-mole, prefer to mitigate than to heal.
Hmmm I'm intrigued by Monk, I like mobility and Pally does feel like a big turtle.
Which tanks would require more precision or reactionary gameplay? In terms of fun I value more pressing a button at the right time or anticipating certain actions, compared to waiting on a CD, a proc or a certain bar to fill.
Thanks for the answers.
jaundicejuice
Member
Even though it's been simplified a bit in Legion, arguably in a good way, Brewmaster is probably the tank spec you're looking for if you want more rewarding button presses, precision or reactionary gameplay.
Like Paladin, every Monk spec is in a really good place.
Edit: Back to the discussion of healer dps in PVE, looking at the Icyveins guide for leveling the Holy Artifact in 7.1.5, the Focus in the Light trait is one of the earlier traits you can acquire while leveling T'uure but literally the last talent the guide recommends you get.
While Focus in the Light does nothing to increase your healing throughput like everything else in T'uure's talent tree does, it does provide a 30% slow to targets affected by Holy Fire and Holy Word: Chastise and provide you with a 30% movement speed increase while Focused Will is active. So while you're getting punched in the face, you can slow enemies and increase your movement speed with two damage spells you're heavily using in your basic damage rotation. That's huge if you're leveling in PVE as Holy and it's a one tier talent, so you're not deviating too far away from your first Golden Trait if you're following this guide.
Like Paladin, every Monk spec is in a really good place.
Edit: Back to the discussion of healer dps in PVE, looking at the Icyveins guide for leveling the Holy Artifact in 7.1.5, the Focus in the Light trait is one of the earlier traits you can acquire while leveling T'uure but literally the last talent the guide recommends you get.
While Focus in the Light does nothing to increase your healing throughput like everything else in T'uure's talent tree does, it does provide a 30% slow to targets affected by Holy Fire and Holy Word: Chastise and provide you with a 30% movement speed increase while Focused Will is active. So while you're getting punched in the face, you can slow enemies and increase your movement speed with two damage spells you're heavily using in your basic damage rotation. That's huge if you're leveling in PVE as Holy and it's a one tier talent, so you're not deviating too far away from your first Golden Trait if you're following this guide.
MW and WW in mythic raiding are not in a good place. MW is by far the worst raid healer with weak toolkit, lower throughput, and insane mana issues. WW's damage is too honest, okay for progression, not good for farm. Has no crazy interactions like a DH or Fury warrior. Very high theoretical AOE damage while dealing with SEF bugs. ST is weaker than all the melee. Poor scaling. After CoF nerf, we were basically left in the dust. My level 35 trait Fury warrior bursts higher than my 54 trait 4 piece 907 WW. Great balance.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
As a die hard battle pet collector with 817 unique pets, ive gotten Knockoff Blingtron and Albino Buzzard recently and just decided to sell them because i either have 819 unique battle pets to brag to no one about or 250,000 more gold
Depends what kind of content you're doing. For mythic raiding MW and WW have issues (arguably MW having more issues than WW), but for M+ dungeons both are quite great. WW's burst AoE, Leg Sweep and defensives are some of the best toolkit for M+ of any DPS, and similarly MW can easily handle anything in M+, plus an AoE stun on a healer is super useful and Life Cocoon becomes an exceptional tool in a small group setting. Plus the fantastic mobility of both is much more of a boon in M+ than Mythic raiding.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The problem with the Legendary system is pretty simple: somehow, after 10 years of the game existing, Blizzard managed to not realize people would get mad if you put a super RNG based system in the game and some of the options out of that system were blatantly worse than others.
The biggest problem is that the type of fun surprise they were trying to implement with legendaries already exists in the game and got expanded in the same expansion - getting Warforged or Titanforged gear already does a version of the "you randomly got a super awesome item" that manages to not feel fucking terrible because people are just less likely to be disappointed getting a Draught of Souls and it not proccing a Titanforge because you still get Draught of Souls.
The biggest problem is that the type of fun surprise they were trying to implement with legendaries already exists in the game and got expanded in the same expansion - getting Warforged or Titanforged gear already does a version of the "you randomly got a super awesome item" that manages to not feel fucking terrible because people are just less likely to be disappointed getting a Draught of Souls and it not proccing a Titanforge because you still get Draught of Souls.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's motivating, sure, but people shouldn't get pissed off when they get them, they should be happy. Right now, lots of players just get pissed off when they get them.
finally beat heroic gul'dan last night, then we went and bumped off mythic skorpyron. Of course I died on both kills because healers forgot I exist/passive AOE got a bunch of scorpions on me. I was fine on every other pull until those.
convergence of fates has been very nice so far (BoS Frost DK, seal of necrofantasia). I can use two breaths on the pull and still have one up every other time. I haven't run sims in a long time so I should probably get on that as I'm starting to accumulate a lot of sidegrades. But I just don't feel super motivated about the game anymore and there are no other DKs in my guild left to have meter fights with.
convergence of fates has been very nice so far (BoS Frost DK, seal of necrofantasia). I can use two breaths on the pull and still have one up every other time. I haven't run sims in a long time so I should probably get on that as I'm starting to accumulate a lot of sidegrades. But I just don't feel super motivated about the game anymore and there are no other DKs in my guild left to have meter fights with.
AlimNassor
Banned
Hit level 78. Died during a dungeon because, the healer decided to ignore me and the tank let everyone kill me. I still got top dps.
Does anyone actually raid or is it solely at endgame? Are there a ton of fun raids at endgame or is it just 1 or 2?
Does anyone actually raid or is it solely at endgame? Are there a ton of fun raids at endgame or is it just 1 or 2?
Nobody really raids until end game, save for some random RP guilds and whatnot usually, or those looking to get transmogs that go in 20 levels later.
There's currently three raids up in the xpac, Emerald Nightmare, Trial of Valor, and the Nighthold, with the next one coming up in the next 2 months or so. Generally the latest raid is what most people actively pursue, though you'll see some pugs for the older stuff at times for people gearing up alts or completing quests. And there's a tool called Looking for Raid that has them broken into chunks (3 bosses a piece usually) that a lot of people run every week (it's usually stupidly easy).
There's currently three raids up in the xpac, Emerald Nightmare, Trial of Valor, and the Nighthold, with the next one coming up in the next 2 months or so. Generally the latest raid is what most people actively pursue, though you'll see some pugs for the older stuff at times for people gearing up alts or completing quests. And there's a tool called Looking for Raid that has them broken into chunks (3 bosses a piece usually) that a lot of people run every week (it's usually stupidly easy).
No one likes the ap grind or the legendary system. Id probably switch mains if it wasnt for 54 traits.
AlimNassor
Banned
That's lame. That means I'm stuck running 3 raids forever? Aren't there like dozens of lower level raids and people just ignore it in favor of those 3?
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
The end of PvP Season 2 has been announced (though without date), and in the Dungeon Preview: Cathedral of Eternal Night there's this:
Patch 7.2 released in March maybe? Two Tuesdays remain.
More like the latest raid (or two if they do a split release). You have to understand that the previous raids are both "been there, done that" and are outdated for player progression. Whenever Blizz patches in a new tier, the focus shifts to that.
Of course, some people do run older stuff if they like how some items look, rare mounts / pets, if they want achievements and even occasionally just for fun. But these are the exception, not the rule.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Rösti;232032204 said:
Usually they announce the end of PvP seasons two weeks ahead of time, but this time they didn't give a date like they normally do.
So, maybe? We'll probably know if/when PTR updates with a release build.
No, nothing is forever. The game is always moving forward. Look at it this way : if we were stuck doing ten year old raids this whole time it would be way worse. The old setups were designed around aspects of the game that don't even exist anymore.
I hear a lot that the legendary system sucks, but boy.. for something that sucks, people sure do fixate on it. They just keep spinning that hamster wheel.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Completed the Death Knight class mount quest on the PTR. Really underwhelmed with the mount itself. It looks like something stuck in 2004 graphically compared to the rest of the class mounts.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
WyndhamPrice
Member
People still run those old raids for Transmog gear and achievements. I spent a few weeks soloing Lich King and Cataclysm content because I wanted the mounts you get for getting all the achievements. It's pretty fun to roll into one of those old raids and smoke everything on your own at the highest difficulty.
Aesthetically it's great with some amazing art. Can't wait to read it.
Blizz has done some silly things with WoW's story, but overall I still love the Warcraft universe lore.
The thing with the raids is, every expansion has them, but as soon as a new one hits, those raids become irrelevant. Each expansion has a gear reset where you basically exchange all your hard earned gear in the last expansion with new one some time before the max level of current one. For example, let's say a raid weapon from a level 80 raid would give you 120 DPS. Then maybe at level 84 you start seeing weapons with 117 DPS and at 85 you see weapons with 130 DPS. So on one hand, you are now much stronger than you were before at level 80 and all the gear you can earn solo is better than those raid items.
So, yeah, as others have said, unless it's raids from the current expansion or you are part of a special guild that stops its level at specific points, you can either do those raids alone or, if they are from the last expansion, with a small group. But don't expect to get anything useful aside from transmog, mounts, pets or achievements.
Okay this Treasure Hunt stuff in Draenor is the worst. And expecting you to get 100 of these just to fly, when it feels like you need to fly to even obtain 95% of the damn things is ridiculous. It's like they wanted noone at all to fly this expansion. I spent a considerable amount od time checking out all the content in Panda dud to not having seen it before, but this Treasure Hunt alone is making me just want to get the hell out of Draenor and never look back. Honestly it would have been fun had they been placed normally, but it feels each one is placed in areas to troll you or to just feel as frustrating as possibly can be
And here I am, having a blast with those treasures. Searching for them was one of the best things in Draenor, imo.