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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004

C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Tarazet said:
Deadly Boss Mods
Enemy Grid
Details!

Depending on your class, WeakAuras, I find the default UI over the artifact is OK though DBM timers can block your resource bar.
Click to expand...

Enemy Grid will die tomorrow. Broken intentionally with 7.1.

And yeah WeakAuras is a must have, but for someone with little knowledge it's not gonna do much out of the box.
 
T

Tarazet

Member
Rhaknar said:
how is spring blossoms comparable to germination in any way again, apart from saving mana (which granted, is a big thing, especially in a raid).

just going from the tooltip, its a 17k hot vs a 130k hot. Im not being a know-it-all here in any way, im actually asking / wondering / wanting to learn :)
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Efflorescence is a raid heal, Rejuv is a single target HoT. If there isn't a lot of movement you will get huge value out of Spring Blossoms.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Lanrutcon said:
TellMeWhen is a lightweight alternative to WeakAuras. Incredibly simple to configure.
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Sure, but you won't have nearly as much flexibility/power in terms of what you can do. I've used both at one point or another. And if you can find a WeakAuras profile setup already it's pretty much as simple as copy/paste. From wago.io or MMO-Champion or wherever.

thespot84 said:
resubbed after 11 years to check things out. what are some must have addons?
Click to expand...

Also 11 years is a damn long time. Your mind will be blown.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
TheYanger said:
Sad for someone like me that is actually playing frost 'correctly' right now though, since obliterate isn't actually worth casting at all right now, so buffing it is a large buff to the wrong playstyle. IE it's probably like a 5% buff in reality.
Click to expand...

na it's massive for a few reasons and will net frost dk's that change their playstyle much much more than 5% (afaik the runic attenuation ignore frostscythe build was already very very close and competitive with the frostcythe 'correct' build)

1) The new "correct" way to play frost will be to ignore Frostscythe and go Runic Attenuation.
2) Frozen Pulse is being reworked to have nearly double the uptime as it did before at the cost of a small damage decrease (but massive overall damage increase due to uptime).
3) The howling blast and obliterate buffs are just massive, nearly 30% for the former and 20% for the latter -- so even "losing" Frostscythe you gain immense single target through runic attenuation and the raw obliterate buff, and frozen pulse is godly for AoE along with the new howling blast and remorseless winter.

Not even mentioning the rune of razorice change yet which is just a straight up 5% buff to frost damage which is like 60-75% of a DK's damage. These changes also put more value on the belt/helm legs which is pretty nice for people that have those (while the bracers remain godlike). So Frost DK's have 3-4 legitimately strong legendaries (more than most specs).

Massive buffs across the board for Frost, and I honestly think it will surpass Unholy. Will be one of the best melee classes for mythic+ because of the really strong sustained AoE, godlike cleave, decent ST now, and it comes with a brez. Really exciting time for Frost DK mains, Blizzard doesn't usually buff on this massive scale, but this time they actually did and it's going to elevate a weak spec into a very solid position (and they should do this more often when it comes to these lagging specs, the incremental 3-8% buffs once every month or two really does nothing for a spec at the bottom).

Frost will always have scaling issues with the way killing machine works, but I mean if they keep hitting it with large buffs with the introduction of every raid, that doesn't really matter.
 
J

Jrmint

Member
Rhaknar said:
how is spring blossoms comparable to germination in any way again, apart from saving mana (which granted, is a big thing, especially in a raid).

just going from the tooltip, its a 17k hot vs a 130k hot. Im not being a know-it-all here in any way, im actually asking / wondering / wanting to learn :)
Click to expand...
Only costs one global and heals everyone who stands in that area. I find that managing 2 applications of rejuv can be tedious.
I never run germ, it's always SB or Inner Peace in raid personally.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
no 7.1 trailer? :(

I always liked their patch trailers. There story style ones, not the "heres whats in patch X.X" 1min trailers

Jrmint said:
Only costs one global and heals everyone who stands in that area. I find that managing 2 applications of rejuv can be tedious.
I never run germ, it's always SB or Inner Peace in raid personally.
Click to expand...

Im mostly doing 5man stuff on the druid tbh
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Rhaknar said:
no 7.1 trailer? :(

I always liked their patch trailers. There story style ones, not the "heres whats in patch X.X" 1min trailers



Im mostly doing 5man stuff on the druid tbh
Click to expand...
Didn't we get it already? With Moroes shanking the random lost dude outside the tower?
 
T

thespot84

Member
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Sure, but you won't have nearly as much flexibility/power in terms of what you can do. I've used both at one point or another. And if you can find a WeakAuras profile setup already it's pretty much as simple as copy/paste. From wago.io or MMO-Champion or wherever.



Also 11 years is a damn long time. Your mind will be blown.
Click to expand...

I'm sure. still leveling so mostly vanilla stuff right now. i haven't seen anything past BC yet apart from panderia.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
huh 865 bracers from emissary cache which are actually a upgrade.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
Anbokr said:
na it's massive for a few reasons and will net frost dk's that change their playstyle much much more than 5% (afaik the runic attenuation ignore frostscythe build was already very very close and competitive with the frostcythe 'correct' build)

1) The new "correct" way to play frost will be to ignore Frostscythe and go Runic Attenuation.
2) Frozen Pulse is being reworked to have nearly double the uptime as it did before at the cost of a small damage decrease (but massive overall damage increase due to uptime).
3) The howling blast and obliterate buffs are just massive, nearly 30% for the former and 20% for the latter -- so even "losing" Frostscythe you gain immense single target through runic attenuation and the raw obliterate buff, and frozen pulse is godly for AoE along with the new howling blast and remorseless winter.

Not even mentioning the rune of razorice change yet which is just a straight up 5% buff to frost damage which is like 60-75% of a DK's damage. These changes also put more value on the belt/helm legs which is pretty nice for people that have those (while the bracers remain godlike). So Frost DK's have 3-4 legitimately strong legendaries (more than most specs).

Massive buffs across the board for Frost, and I honestly think it will surpass Unholy. Will be one of the best melee classes for mythic+ because of the really strong sustained AoE, godlike cleave, decent ST now, and it comes with a brez. Really exciting time for Frost DK mains, Blizzard doesn't usually buff on this massive scale, but this time they actually did and it's going to elevate a weak spec into a very solid position (and they should do this more often when it comes to these lagging specs, the incremental 3-8% buffs once every month or two really does nothing for a spec at the bottom).

Frost will always have scaling issues with the way killing machine works, but I mean if they keep hitting it with large buffs with the introduction of every raid, that doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...

Razorice doesn't buff your obliterate damage, it would buff your frostscythe damage. Similarly you lose the damage buff from pillar of frost (which would be even larger if you had the legendary, I don't), the frozen pulse change isn't as much of a buff as you're making it out to be - Even without the change I'm getting procs on well over half of my autoattacks, with the change it'll be say, 95% of them, but it'll also hit much more weakly. It's still a buff don't get me wrong, but it's smaller than it sounds if you were playing right (If you were using obliterate, your uptime would be lower). Luckily(?) for me I've got the stupid howling blast helm, which DOES slightly favor obliterate play, if I could get the rune refund legendary it would push it over for sure.

All in all it ends up being like a 10-15% buff to an obliterate oriented spec, but that spec was already way behind frostscythe. I guess we'll see, but suffice to say the sims for frost have been wrong since the beta, just like they were wrong for assassination rogues etc, the spec isn't as bad currently as they'd have you believe because the playstyle the sims use isn't correct, similarly the buffs affect the sim more than they should because of that too.

EDIT: To clarify, it should be simming correctly, it's just not as large a buff when compared to the previous 'correct'. This is small potatoes to fiddle over, I realize.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Interesting. Im learning my frost dk, and I always thought you just obliterated single target and scythed on 2 or more targets
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's their intention, but ob is just too weak to do that, and frankly it feels terrible to play that way (The intention if you have FS would be to use it for cleaving OR for killing machine procs even on single target).
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
TheYanger said:
Razorice doesn't buff your obliterate damage, it would buff your frostscythe damage. Similarly you lose the damage buff from pillar of frost (which would be even larger if you had the legendary, I don't), the frozen pulse change isn't as much of a buff as you're making it out to be - Even without the change I'm getting procs on well over half of my autoattacks, with the change it'll be say, 95% of them, but it'll also hit much more weakly. It's still a buff don't get me wrong, but it's smaller than it sounds if you were playing right (If you were using obliterate, your uptime would be lower). Luckily(?) for me I've got the stupid howling blast helm, which DOES slightly favor obliterate play, if I could get the rune refund legendary it would push it over for sure.

All in all it ends up being like a 10-15% buff to an obliterate oriented spec, but that spec was already way behind frostscythe. I guess we'll see, but suffice to say the sims for frost have been wrong since the beta, just like they were wrong for assassination rogues etc, the spec isn't as bad currently as they'd have you believe because the playstyle the sims use isn't correct, similarly the buffs affect the sim more than they should because of that too.
Click to expand...

I never said razorice buffed obliterate at all; the razorice change is just a nice buff (~3-4%) to frost dk overall. Yes, anytime you switch talents, you lose something and gain something else (i.e. frostscythe --> RA). I'm well aware that dropping frostscythe means less overall frost damage. Whenever you drop X for Y, you're losing something related to X, but the gain from Y is so massive in this case that it doesn't matter.

You're wrong about the obliterate build being massively behind frostscythe. In the context of mass AoE or sustained cleave fights, sure, frostscythe wins out. However, on single target (aka heroic nythendra and ursoc), runic attenuation is already (on live) the better build.

These changes just solidify that runic attenuation is going to be the best build on a majority of fights (even non-ST). The buff in general are much more of a single target buff (~14-16%) than AoE, of course. But that's what frost DK needed, a big ST infusion, and that's what it got.

BreezyLimbo said:
Interesting. Im learning my frost dk, and I always thought you just obliterated single target and scythed on 2 or more targets
Click to expand...

This is their intention for frostscythe vs. obliterate from the legion beta forums:
Devs said:
Q: Is Frost Scythe intended to be tuned as a replacement for Obliterate when Killing Machine is up even against a single target (...) ?

A: [Versus a single target,] Frostscythe is intended to be higher priority than Obliterate with Killing Machine, and lower priority than Obliterate without Killing Machine, at any reasonable amount of Mastery.
Click to expand...

Their intent isn't always hit though, lol. Regardless, come 7.1 you really won't be using frost scythe at all in the vast majority of cases (mythic+ and raids). The Runic Attenuation/Frozen-Pulse build is just going to be so incredibly strong and the massive obliterate buff makes it worth trading out FS for RA despite Obliterate not scaling with frost dmg modifiers.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
Anbokr said:
I never said razorice buffed obliterate at all; the razorice change is just a nice buff (~3-4%) to frost dk overall. Yes, anytime you switch talents, you lose something and gain something else (i.e. frostscythe --> RA). I'm well aware that dropping frostscythe means less overall frost damage. Whenever you drop X for Y, you're losing something related to X, but the gain from Y is so massive in this case that it doesn't matter.

You're wrong about the obliterate build being massively behind frostscythe. In the context of mass AoE or sustained cleave fights, sure, frostscythe wins out. However, on single target (aka heroic nythendra and ursoc), runic attenuation is already (on live) the better build.

These changes just solidify that runic attenuation is going to be the best build on a majority of fights (even non-ST). The buff in general are much more of a single target buff (~14-16%) than AoE, of course. But that's what frost DK needed, a big ST infusion, and that's what it got.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm saying though, Attenuation is decidedly NOT the better build right now. Reality and theorycraft/sims not matching up is generally a failing of the theory/sims, not reality.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
TheYanger said:
This is what I'm saying though, Attenuation is decidedly NOT the better build right now.
Click to expand...

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't think it is black and white at all. Attenuation is the better build on ST fights like Nythendra and Ursoc. Fscythe is the better build on AoE fights like Ilgy, Cenarius, etc...

The point being that a 15% buff that prompts a switch to the RA build for 80-90% of fights/content, is a 15% buff to ST (which is where Frost suffered most). That's the most important part of this buff which is what I'm trying to emphasize; you aren't giving up any single target damage by swapping out frost scythe is the point I'm trying to get across. Yes, nothing is black and white and this isn't a flat 15% buff to every single frost DK log. It's simply a massive single target buff without losing much AoE at all, in fact, I believe the number crunchers have determined that you still beat out Fscythe in 2-3 mob cleave scenarios as well.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
Anbokr said:
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't think it is black and white at all. Attenuation is the better build on ST fights like Nythendra and Ursoc. Fscythe is the better build on AoE fights like Ilgy, Cenarius, etc...

The point being that a 15% buff to the RA build is a 15% buff to ST, which is where Frost suffered most. That's the most important part of this buff, you aren't giving up any single target damage by swapping out frost scythe is the point I'm trying to get across.
Click to expand...

There's nothing to 'agree to disagree' about. The highest parses are all frost scythe spam, and it's not because there's some great skill cap at work here, it's because the sims/theory is wrong. This makes a 15% buff not ACTUALLY a 15% buff because it's buffing the playstyle that is behind in the first place, while also gutting the utility/bonus of "Hey, most fights aren't single target, so I just flat out do more all the time" which Frostscythe currently enjoys.

You're free to think whatever you want to, but the logs agree with me.
 
M

Mothman91

Member
piqYdJj.jpg
Click to expand...

Second legendary from Nightfallen WQ chest.

Too bad it's one of the ok ones. Really really want the belt because it's the best one.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
TheYanger said:
There's nothing to 'agree to disagree' about. The highest parses are all frost scythe spam, and it's not because there's some great skill cap at work here, it's because the sims/theory is wrong. This makes a 15% buff not ACTUALLY a 15% buff because it's buffing the playstyle that is behind in the first place, while also gutting the utility/bonus of "Hey, most fights aren't single target, so I just flat out do more all the time" which Frostscythe currently enjoys.

You're free to think whatever you want to, but the logs agree with me.
Click to expand...

The logs don't agree with you. Heroic Nythendra and Ursoc (aka single target fights) are topped by Runic attenuation logs, not frost scythe.

Runic attenuation is the better single target build on live over Frostscythe. Frostscythe is the better build on 4/7 fights and in mythic (with lots of AoE), and is what many people gear for (both builds also have different stat weights). With BiS gear in each respective build (and without), RA is better on ST fights 9/10 times. That's not an opinion.

Anyhow, I don't think our little back n forth is the least bit productive at this stage and we're arguing over if this is a 10% or 15% buff yadiya. It's dumb.

The main point being that frost DK's are getting a massive buff come 7.1, and the biggest buff of any spec in 7.1 (Fury's buff is only a net gain of 5-7%, and the rest of the buffs for various specs are pretty negligible). Along with nerfs to Fire Mage and MM, frost is going to be a pretty damn good spec imo. Now nerf spriests before we gotta see Valor logs of Spriests doing fucking 750k+ on fights, blizzard. It's amazing to me that they've left S2M as is because the other two choices aren't competitive, yet are content to dick Arms' focused rage up the ass despite the same exact scenario - the other two talents aren't remotely competitive.
 
T

th3dude

Member
Bah, just watched a really good video guide on how to play Outlaw Rogue and now I want one.

Don't want to level from scratch. But that $60......
 
A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
th3dude said:
Bah, just watched a really good video guide on how to play Outlaw Rogue and now I want one.

Don't want to level from scratch. But that $60......
Click to expand...

I actually find both dagger specs more fun, but YMMV.
 
M

MrPing1000

Member
Ursoc mythic down, such an awesome fight for resto shamans such as myself. Makes me look like a healing god.

Whereas Nightmare Drakes... not so much. A few hours of wiping, so many abilities to handle at once, people can't avoid shit.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
I like Outlaw. People complain about RNG but I find it keeps the spec interesting. Yes, it feels bad when you keep rolling shitty buffs, but when you hit a good roll and unleash the pain train it's great.

TL;DR: I might have a gambling problem.
 
C

cartographer

Member
th3dude said:
Bah, just watched a really good video guide on how to play Outlaw Rogue and now I want one.

Don't want to level from scratch. But that $60......
Click to expand...
Level one from scratch. By the time you're done they might have fixed Outlaw.

I do find it fun to play though despite complaints. Just when it's bad it is really, really bad.
 
C

ChrisMahoney

Banned
Would anyone who is on an alliance populated server be able to do me a huge favor and go to Tol Barad and invite me to their group? I need to enter the Tol Barad raid alliance side but Horde control the zone 100% of the time on my server :\
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
ChrisMahoney said:
Would anyone who is on an alliance populated server be able to do me a huge favor and go to Tol Barad and invite me to their group? I need to enter the Tol Barad raid alliance side but Horde control the zone 100% of the time on my server :
Click to expand...

If you are on a couple hours I can hook you up at Sargeras.
 
P

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
th3dude said:
Bah, just watched a really good video guide on how to play Outlaw Rogue and now I want one.

Don't want to level from scratch. But that $60......
Click to expand...

What's the video?

cartographer said:
Level one from scratch. By the time you're done they might have fixed Outlaw.

I do find it fun to play though despite complaints. Just when it's bad it is really, really bad.
Click to expand...

I doubt there's any meaningful fix coming to outlaw in the future. Blizzard has stated that they like RtB functioning the way it currently does, that chasing the elusive 6 buff is what makes the spec exciting and fun. They went on to say they do feel the spec is slightly underperforming with tuning coming, presumably with these small damage buffs of non-Run Through abilities.

Honestly I have never had a more frustrating experience with this game than I had playing outlaw, burn phases or blood lusts going by with my having to reroll 4-5 times feels absolutely awful. This combined with the nature of the buffs and reroll rules means that some of the time even when you do nail that roll it could be in the form of resource generation during your cooldowns, which is worthless, or damage buffs during your downtime leaving you energy starved and feeling equally bad.

If you can deal with the lows go ahead and play the spec, but I switched to Assassin and haven't regretted it at any level. I feel like I can play the game on my own now with my damage being tied to my ability, rather than playing well and hoping the right buffs line up to do my damage.
 
S

Sölf

Member
Hey everyone,

We’ve seen some talk among the community that you might be expecting to hear some news on legacy servers at BlizzCon, and we just wanted to take a moment to let you know that while we’re still discussing the possibility, we won’t have any updates to share on that until after the show.

These past few months we’ve been laser-focused on the launch of Legion and getting Patch 7.1: Return to Karazhan ready to go (it’s almost here!), as well as prepping for BlizzCon—which is always a huge undertaking itself. You’ve heard us say that the launch of Legion was just the beginning of the story we want to tell in this expansion. What we will focus on at BlizzCon is how the team is committed to making sure we bring you a steady stream of content going forward, and we can’t wait to share what’s next for Legion.

Thanks for your patience, and we’ll see you at BlizzCon.

-J. Allen Brack and the World of Warcraft development team
Click to expand...

Huh.
 
S

Strimei

Member
Oof, I got real lucky off the WQ to kill a rare mob and finish Neltharion's Lair. The head piece I got from it proced like mad, ilevel 880.
 
S

Sölf

Member
I am not even sure if I would play vanilla WoW. I played that, but I was a total noob back then. It would definitly be fun to actually see all the content and do dungeons at intended level or stuff like the T0.5 quest. Or old Alterac Valley. <3

And on the other hand I know - even though I probably know all quests by now - that it will take weeks of leveling and doing professions and what not to actually get to the higher levels. And I have to somehow manage to get through the level 25-35 range, which I absolutely hate on Horde. I hate Thousand Needles until the Salt Plains, I hate Desolace and I hate Arathi. And Stranglethorn is only worth doing at 35+. D:
 
A

Ark

Member
No prot warrior changes at all.

Seriously considering levelling both my prot pally and xferring him. Might level a Brewmaster, they sound fun.
 
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