-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004
- Thread starter ampere
- Start date
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Four and a half hours in Kara for my first clear, although one and a half hours of that was wiping over and over on the last boss. About 30% of those wipes were poor orb placement, the other 70% because I just couldn't heal and avoid shit at the same time as a Holy Priest. Our mobility is fucking shocking. Prayer of Mending needs to be instant cast again and removing circle of healing from our base moves is a dick move.
The rest of Kara went pretty smoothly to be honest. Most bosses didn't offer more than a couple of wipes and we one-shot a couple of the later ones.
The rest of Kara went pretty smoothly to be honest. Most bosses didn't offer more than a couple of wipes and we one-shot a couple of the later ones.
I finally got around advancing the Artifact quest from Kalecgos. I knew I probably gonna have to hit the raid at some point, but then it smacks me with the "collect 30 thingies" bit. Off to wowhead I go. Looks like at least 2 months of clearing the damn thing every week with average luck. Sure.
No idea why they even bothered sending me into mythic dungeons, if it's supposed to be a raid only thing.
cartographer
Member
The best thing about this expansion right now is that it's saving me a lot of money that I might have otherwise spent on other games. All these new releases in the last few weeks I would have probably bought $120+ worth in games, but because I have WoW I'm not buying them immediately and will probably wait for sales or just won't buy them at all. It also helps I'm still slowly working through Witcher 3 in my WoW downtime, I think I still have 60+ hrs worth of content left in that one alone...
I haven't even used my free boost on an alt yet. I kind of want to level something that wears Plate because that's the only thing I've never played at cap in any expansion. I played mail and cloth in WotLK, and Leather in Mists/WoD/Legion so far. Thinking about Death Knight even though I've heard they're not great right now just because they look cool, my friend I play with already plays Warrior, and I'm not that big a fan of Paladin. Either way I'm still having plenty of fun with Rogue, playing casually and doing a few mythics per week. This expansion is the most fun I've had with this game since WotLK.
I haven't even used my free boost on an alt yet. I kind of want to level something that wears Plate because that's the only thing I've never played at cap in any expansion. I played mail and cloth in WotLK, and Leather in Mists/WoD/Legion so far. Thinking about Death Knight even though I've heard they're not great right now just because they look cool, my friend I play with already plays Warrior, and I'm not that big a fan of Paladin. Either way I'm still having plenty of fun with Rogue, playing casually and doing a few mythics per week. This expansion is the most fun I've had with this game since WotLK.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
This is kinda true. Making me do more Mythic dungeons now for the balance of power quest line after I've collected my 30 essences from Emerald Nightmare. It's like you'd think to expect I've done those dungeons already having cleared EN X many times, but nooooo.
Edit: Apologies, I seem to have used your post as a jumping off point for my own questions, most of what I say below isn't directly addressed to you hah.
It seems to me blizzard wants to force people playing their MMO to actually play an MMO, instead of the current iteration of LFD/LFR where you can turn off your chat and you are basically playing with NPCs with bad AI. And I get that people want solo content, but there is a limit in the end, and if you were counting on Illidain's lame ass redemption story (which has a 100% chance to require Nighthold raid in the end) to tide you over as solo content I don't know how you've lasted this long.
I don't know if there is a good answer to this problem. You CANNOT have easy content with equal rewards to hard content, or your game is broken fundamentally. So do you make the queueable solo friendly content hard with good rewards? Nope, because people HATED cataclysm heroics and MoP LFR, which were actually hard with good rewards. They raged until blizzard changed it back to faceroll. And now the hard low end content is Mythics where people rage about not being able to get into groups because the community decides who to invite. What could the solution be? You want blizzard to require every mythic0 group to have one under-represented class or low ilvl player, affirmative action style? Want blizzard to send out a memo that frost mage isn't actually that bad please take them to your groups! Or is what you really want to get the same rewards from impossible to fail random queued heroics as people get from mythic? Because it is clear no one wants a queue system for mythic0, that was cata heroics and everyone raged against that until it was changed. So what would the actual solution be in this case? Legitimate question, because I don't know if I see one.
Similarly, why do people always need to get things at the same rate as others? For that illidain quest line, why do you need to finish it in the 8 week minimum? Maybe just do 2 or so mythic0 a week, and maybe in a month gear inflation will be to the point where everyone is doing mythic3 baseline and you can get 6 a week, etc. But who am I to talk, I still rage about the 3rd artifact appearance being raid only every chance I get, so I'm probably just a huge hypocrite.
omgomg my first legendary!!!!
wtf.
Yeah, sure, a movement speed buff based on haste when I'm supposed to rack up crit and mastery, in fact my haste is at 5% (1687). What a piece of shit effect.
I wouldn't mind Aggramar's Stride as a DK. I stack haste as much as I can and I'm slow as shit. It'd be really fun in combination with Sephuz' Secret and the Chrono Shard/Strand of Stars set bonus.
Lanrutcon
Member
I don't think Blizzard are doing themselves any favors by gating cosmetic rewards and nostalgia behind mythics, or by sticking with an ancient and completely underdeveloped set of LFx tools that an intern could have designed over a coffee break.
But yeah, Blizzard don't know how to make everyone happy because it's just not that easy. (edit: no, actually not being sarcastic here)
RoninChaos
Member
I think every boss should drop AP tokens no matter what. Especially when you spend 1k gold or resources on bonus rolls and end up with like 5g. That shit is frustrating as fuck.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They should just let you queue up for Mythics. Like...theyre not that hard. Mythic+ tho should be reserved for the lfg tool
I think the reason "Mythic 0" is easy is because they want to ease people back into LFG, rather than have it be a big scary step up from heroic.
It's not like heroics are even remotely close to being relevant content. They come easy in Mythic dungeons and Blizzard has given plenty of reasons for players to do Mythic dungeons. It is a long grind but it is not even one players need to think about because it is tied to a play pattern most players should already be participating in.
Really confused as to why people are bothered by cosmetic unlocks from raids too...
You're not the authority on what MMOs are. Look at every MMO on the market now. That's what MMOs are. Things like LFD/LFR are true MMO systems that almost every MMO now have. You're just holding onto a long passed time where things were different. I'm sick of this idea that my ability to easily match with other players or solo most things is somehow less MMO than forced grouping. MMOs haven't been that way for many years. The genre has evolved. It's not 2007 anymore.
So screw you for telling me that my playstyle is somehow lesser and not "MMO".
I'm not even asking for good rewards or gear. I just want to finish the damn story I started and was completely soloable and easily accessible prior to 7.1. The quest gives like ilvl 850 gear or something. Some low thing no one who does 80 mythic dungeons would even need. I don't care for the gear. I'm just pissed that the quest that was perfectly fine content for super casuals suddenly requires me to do 800 dungeons.
So screw you for telling me that my playstyle is somehow lesser and not "MMO".
I'm not even asking for good rewards or gear. I just want to finish the damn story I started and was completely soloable and easily accessible prior to 7.1. The quest gives like ilvl 850 gear or something. Some low thing no one who does 80 mythic dungeons would even need. I don't care for the gear. I'm just pissed that the quest that was perfectly fine content for super casuals suddenly requires me to do 800 dungeons.
Which quest are you even talking about? The quest that requires you to do 4 dungeons, or the quest that requires you to do 3 dungeons? I wasn't aware playing by yourself meant you couldn't press "i" and click on the premade group finder. PLAYING AN MMO SOLO DOES NOT PRECLUDE INTERACTING WITH OTHER PEOPLE. LF systems aren't 'soloing' any more than the group finder is or queueing up for LFR or anything else. So, yes, when you claim your 'playstyle' is literally not ever seeing another soul or playing with one, your playstyle is in fact not 'mmo' - it's literally in the name.
Breaking News: MMO-developer wants players to group with other players!
Soul Prism of the Illidari, new quest in 7.1. Get 80 badges (max 10 / week) from dungeon bosses.
Soul Prism of the Illidari, new quest in 7.1. Get 80 badges (max 10 / week) from dungeon bosses.
Soul Prism of the Illidari. Which apparently none of you hardcore people even care about since so few of you even know what it is. But fuck me right? I don't deserve any content as a filthy casual who plays differently than you and doesn't adhere to your outdated definition of MMO.
And I never said I don't want to see another soul. Read my other posts on this quest in the last page or two. So kindly fuck off.
I'm fine if it was doable on heroic or normal mode at a reasonable pace. Just as I didn't complain a single word about the required dungeons for the Pillars of Creation.
I personally don't have to get things at the same rate. It just needs to feel reasonable to me. And when we start talking about things in months (in plural) as a baseline, something went wrong somewhere.
I think Blizzard got a lot of things right in Legion and how certain system and rewards are set up and paced. And it make this crap stick out all the more.
You don't deserve to see content you aren't willing to do. Period. Soul Prism of the Illidari is something you can do over whatever amount of time you choose, and if you're not doing the easiest content, it takes a mere like 11 dungeons. It literally scales to the difficulty you're willing to engage with (Down to not doing it at all, if it REALLY triggers you that fucking much). The very fact that it takes so many is WHY it's spread over such a long period - to save players from themselves. This is something they've gotten pretty good about doing in general, it's why raids open so slowly for example, and why Mythic 2 spamming was nerfed.
Sorry, this is an MMO. EVERYTHING you do involves other people to different degrees. If you don't want to do it, don't, but don't expect the game to cater to the playstyle that is essentially the antithesis of the entire genre. That's like blaming Call of Duty for you not wanting to play the multiplayer but that you can't get all of the achievements if you don't do it.
cartographer
Member
Criticisms focusing on "but it's an MMO, of course you have to group" seem to sort of be missing the point, IMO.
For one, one of the silly things is requiring you to go back to mythic dungeons you've already done AFTER you've cleared non-LFR EN for weeks (ones that already have other story-related quests associated with them). Finding that silly isn't being adverse to grouping.
I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing people to do mythic dungeons. I do think it's a bit of a crutch in Legion content though. It's not that it's hard (because it isn't, just inconvenient). It's that they rely on it too much, and for many it will seem grindy.
A far as mythic (or heroic or normal) grinding for the Illidan thing, for whom is that compelling content? For people that run keystones regularly, they won't even notice it. For those that don't, all it serves as is a frustration. I got my 10 this week without noticing and it will likely continue that way as long as I'm playing during this period, but I don't really think it's a good quest or good gating.
There's also a little bit of an issue here in that it's connected to a storyline that up to this point has been completely (I believe) solo only. That's not uncommon in Legion, but I can certainly understand the frustration of booting up 7.1 for the first time looking forward to progressing the next part of this story and then being hit with that. They could have presented the gating much better.
No need to condescend to people over this.
For one, one of the silly things is requiring you to go back to mythic dungeons you've already done AFTER you've cleared non-LFR EN for weeks (ones that already have other story-related quests associated with them). Finding that silly isn't being adverse to grouping.
I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing people to do mythic dungeons. I do think it's a bit of a crutch in Legion content though. It's not that it's hard (because it isn't, just inconvenient). It's that they rely on it too much, and for many it will seem grindy.
A far as mythic (or heroic or normal) grinding for the Illidan thing, for whom is that compelling content? For people that run keystones regularly, they won't even notice it. For those that don't, all it serves as is a frustration. I got my 10 this week without noticing and it will likely continue that way as long as I'm playing during this period, but I don't really think it's a good quest or good gating.
There's also a little bit of an issue here in that it's connected to a storyline that up to this point has been completely (I believe) solo only. That's not uncommon in Legion, but I can certainly understand the frustration of booting up 7.1 for the first time looking forward to progressing the next part of this story and then being hit with that. They could have presented the gating much better.
No need to condescend to people over this.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is that quest for 80 dungeons necessary for anything? If its like, a necessary quest, fuck that 80 drop thing.
Blizzard's answer to all this is basically "there will be catch up mechanics." But what that ends up doing to me is making me wonder why even bother right now. Like with artifact power, why care about it when artifact knowledge means that in two weeks every item will be worth double what it is now? To a certain extent it's nice not feeling that pressure, but in another way it makes the futility of the underlying system so apparent I start to not want to participate at all. It's a very fine line for them to walk.
that can't be right. We did I think a +7 or +8 Neltharion's Lair and got two chests. Each chest had 7 or 8 of those thingies in it. It just capped me at 10 and the rest went to my mailbox. After doing a bunch of mythic+ I have pages and pages of Thaumaturge Whatsisname spamming me with messages about all those macguffins that I found and never picked up.
The reason to do it now is so you can have it now instead of in two weeks
You could just log in every few days for a few months until you have AK25 and then start gathering AP, but you wouldn't be playing the game those few months.
The question you'd have to ask yourself is whether you want to play now or play when it's easier.
You can only get 10 a week and they drop like candy, so getting 80 in a span of 2 months is not much work.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is it only from mythics tho? Its already a pain being a dps tryinf to get into groups.
So, I did like 5 or 6 Mythics (not +) and only got 1 for each of them. Doesn't feel like they're dropping like candy.
Some people in this thread seem to be saying they got like, 3+ (or even as many as 10?) in one run?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I think for Mythic+ you get one for each difficulty you are on.
I did two Mythic+3 and got 3 soul prisms on each final boss. Not a confirmed thing, but I would imagine that if you did Mythic+10 you get them all in one run. Maybe check the WoW subreddit.
I did two Mythic+3 and got 3 soul prisms on each final boss. Not a confirmed thing, but I would imagine that if you did Mythic+10 you get them all in one run. Maybe check the WoW subreddit.
This is correct, and the quest even says right on it you get more for doing higher difficulty dungeons. Either way, 10 dungeons a week is hardly a massive undertaking to ask at the low end. If anything the only bad part of the quest is the mail constantly trying to send them to you when you're capped. If there wasn't a cap I'd have finished it this week already from barely doing anything.
From what I understand drop rate is 100% in Mythic. Mythic+ adds another 100% for each +. So Mythic +5 drops 5. Mythic+10 drops 10.
Normals I've seen no report of it dropping at all and Heroics have about a 10% drop rate.
The reason I'm mad about it is that I won't be getting into any Mythic group ever so at 10% drop rate I would need to do roughly 800 runs to continue this previously solo story quest. The quest is now asking me to play hardcore, either mythics, or 800 heroic dungeons to continue the Illidan story line and get a ilvl 850 piece of loot.
And apparently I'm asking to be catered to and asking for too much and don't deserve content because I can't get into mythic groups and think running 800 heroics is beyond unreasonable.
Normals I've seen no report of it dropping at all and Heroics have about a 10% drop rate.
The reason I'm mad about it is that I won't be getting into any Mythic group ever so at 10% drop rate I would need to do roughly 800 runs to continue this previously solo story quest. The quest is now asking me to play hardcore, either mythics, or 800 heroic dungeons to continue the Illidan story line and get a ilvl 850 piece of loot.
And apparently I'm asking to be catered to and asking for too much and don't deserve content because I can't get into mythic groups and think running 800 heroics is beyond unreasonable.
"I can't get into mythic groups" is literally a fallacy though. If you're not willing to try, you have no place complaining about it. Your complaint is bullshit and the notion that it's a 'bait and switch' is bullshit too - they've been pushing you to do SOMETHING challenging with other players for the entire expansion. It scales the challenge to your skill level and level of commitment. If you're not willing to commit to doing a fucking mythic 0, (10 dungeons a week at that level, at worst), then you're actively fighting against what the game has been pointing you towards literally the entire time. Honestly, I didn't even think they could drop on Heroic, it's certainly not how you're meant to do it.
It's the same as complaining that you can't get pvp rewards without pvping, or raid rewards without raiding, or that Mythic 2 drops better gear than heroic. You're already not doing Karazhan, Arcway, or Court of Stars if you're not willing to step foot into the difficulty, the game is designed for you to do these activities, but it's not going to force you. This thread and the last one have repeated time and again that if you are getting declined, just list your own group, you can even automatically accept players fi you want it to be like LFG, set a minimum ilevel if you're worried (you shouldn't be, mythics are quite easy). There is NOTHING stopping anyone from doing this content at the most basic mythic level except for whatever mental blocks you're putting up yourself.
cartographer
Member
It's really not like that at all though. At what point in the Illidan storyline to this point was there an indication that this was a mythic dungeon storyline?
If you think how it is set up is fine, then that's OK. But to be fair to this guy, this comparison is pretty far off.
At what point was there an indication that it wasn't? It's an expansion storyline, that we KNOW continues into the raid even in the long run. By that logic, when you first log into the game you're fighting wolves alone in Elwynn forest, what indication was there that you'd be grouping with other people at all? To pretend that you're being sold on something that was a bait and switch is intentionally obtuse and willfully ignorant. Any 'epic' questline that is ever put into this game is going to require you to do something 'challenging' (I use that term very loosely) and PROBABLY with other people.
This is, in fact, great advice for anyone that thinks it's too many dungeons. Dunno why it didn't cross my mind. Literally a single glance at the LFG tool will find it LITTERED with groups who are flat out begging to carry you through your mythic + key with no expectation that you even have a single brain cell. All it takes to get that started is one single mythic dungeon run, for all time. From then on you never have to do one again.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Would you be fine with there being a quest that required 80 essences that only dropped from mythic Xavius? I mean, if you complain youre just not trying hard enough am I right? Sucks to be you!
This whole "Youre not trying" is bullshit. Some people dont have time to get into mythic groups. Some people do try but end up not getting in because PUGs are stringent.
Poijt blank, its a bad quest. Just as bad as tbe Corrupted Essence not dropping from LFR.
Hell the legendaries from both Mists and Draenor could be done in LFR. So why the fuck did they decide to do ludicrous quests like this.
Why would I have a problem with that quest? Content is designed around what it's designed around. I'm not sure what is more ludicrous about a quest that can be done with a premade finder carry group than one that can be done in LFR.
I don't complain that there are pvp quests or rewards that I don't do (because I don't care about pvp). I don't complain that there are pet battle quests or rewards that I don't see (Because I don't care about pet battles). I don't complain when there's a rep to grind that I don't want to grind (because I don't like to grind reps). Things in this game are fucking optional, if I want something, I'll do it, if I don't think it's worth the effort, I don't. Seems really complicated doesn't it.
Also, your analogy is shit in the first place since there's a HUGE difference between "Hey what if something else required this thing that is out of reach for 90% of the population" and "Hey here's a thing that literally anyone who even attempts to do it will succeed at doing"
We say "You're not trying" because it's fucking true. Literally press i, click 'sign up' on a mythic carry group, and link them your key. It's not possible that anyone has tried this and continually failed to find a group. IMPOSSIBLE.
The reason to do it now is so you can have it now instead of in two weeks
You could just log in every few days for a few months until you have AK25 and then start gathering AP, but you wouldn't be playing the game those few months.
The question you'd have to ask yourself is whether you want to play now or play when it's easier.
Well yeah, but say I go home tonight and decide to do world quests for AP. I might get enough for 1/3 of a level, probably not even that much. And even if I do that every day, the way the scaling is, I'm never going to end up that far ahead of where I am just from the basic emissary rewards and such (it's not like I'm going to actively avoid AP of course). So I really can't "have it now" personally any more than I already do, but in another way I have it anyway, so it's okay. Basically it just means AP is never really a motivator for me.
I understand why the system is how it is, and I do like it to an extent. I can play just fine without feeling the need to power grind and that's great. But the same development mindset is what creates two month long gated quests like everyone here is complaining about. I know the skinner box mentality is part of what drives me to play and when those systems get exposed as meaning fairly little (ie we know a catch up mechanism will come eventually that negates the grind and removes the cap) it removes some of that (arguably unhealthy) motivation to play. Like I said, it's a tough line for them to walk, and I think they are doing well with it in some respects but badly in others (fuck Nomi so hard).
cartographer
Member
It seems like many were under the impression that this wasn't going to be a questline that required repeated mythic dungeon runs (or an arduous heroic grind as a substitute). Given that this is largely a storyline put into the game to appeal to nostalgia and it's part of expansion that Blizzard pushed in large part based on storylines (like order campaigns) aimed at solo or light play, I don't think that impression is any way unreasonable.
I'm not pretending that it's a bait and switch. But I do hold that this is way different from:
because those reward systems and content are much clearer than the situation here.
Nomicakes add-on
Robin64
Member
Nobody's mad that there are things in the game that require you to group with others, or even do so in a manual way. The upset is coming from the fact that an entirely solo storyline, full of interesting scenarios, suddenly switches gears and becomes about endlessly running dungeons (or somehow getting into high Mythics).
It's the change in what you were doing that is irking people.
It's the change in what you were doing that is irking people.
Azzurri
Member
I agree, it's just a story quest that was meant to be soloable and fun to do, it's not high end content that should require a ton of time to do.
cartographer
Member
It's also worth mentioning that grouping is explicitly prohibited in many (possibly all, I haven't tried) of the preceding scenarios.