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[Ferrio]

Sub builds are primarily for PvP and require you to rely on long ass cooldowns to be effective. Also sub builds must be a dagger/backstab to be effective. Since you didn't get improved backstab, they're you're pretty much worthless right now. Get rid of a few things (like worthless hemmorage) and invest atleast 8 points into combat to get improved backstab.


I personally HATE sub builds.

 

[speshylives]

Understood completely. Like I mentioned, just trying to look for something different while trying my hardest to do a fair amount of damage without requiring to feint or be healed.

Judging by all the pics, I take it you're a Combat rogue?

I haven't tried that yet either, was thinking of doing that next if this experiment didn't work out - which it sounds like it won't :lol

 

[Ferrio]

Ya, I'm a combat rogue, but most my time in the game I was various dagger specs.

Several specs that I'm familiar with:

Combat Swords - Great in PvE
Combat Daggers - Great in PvE
Standard Dagger Build - Default Spec, works well in both
Seal Fate Dagger Build - Less Burst damage than the one above (No preparation) but more constant reliable damage.

 

[speshylives]

I did both dagger builds, but I went on this "I don't want healing kick". Maybe I'll try combat swords next. Hopefully I can swing a second Skullforge Reaver tonight just to mess around with it.

 

[Ferrio]

If you can try getting the dal rends set (easier said than done) since it's pretty much the best thing a rogue can lay their hands until MC.

 

[speshylives]

I've lost that roll about 15 times now at least. The last few runs I was lucky enough to at least score the SC tunic and the Eye of Rend though.


At least for the reaver I can find a group of 5 friends who won't mind letting me take. More than anything, I probably need a new guild on Dalaran rather than the constant respeccing.

 

[Malakhov]

Just had an encounter with a farmer.

I'm sitting at the AH doing nothing, looking for a group for Mara since I'm tired of being ganked by Alliances while trying to grind on harpies. Out of nowhere some lvl 1 named Fgdhj puts up 4 Traveler's Backpacks in a trade window and he says "30g ok?" So I cancel the trade window tell him "what?", he answers me "ok" :lol Now I know this guy is probably a farmer.

I run to the AH to check the prices on the Backpacks just in case it's a good deal, I notice they're selling for about 11-12 golds each so I figure that I'm getting a value of 44-48 golds for 30 golds, not bad. So I send him a whisper "Traveling backpacks ok" to make sure he understands since it's obvious he doesn't speak english.

He comes back running at me, put them in the window again and I say "25 golds", he says "27", I say "26" he says "ok", we're having great discussions so far. So here I go I buy these bags for 26 golds, put them up at the AH for 10 golds each.

He comes back 2 minutes later, puts another 3 bags in my trade window and says "20g", I say "15g", he says "17g", I say "16g" and he says "BEY!" And runs away. Now at this point I'm laughing out loud at this guy, after catching my breath I send him another tell "ok 17g" so he runs up to me and I do the transaction. As soon as I'm done he /quits.

So I put everything up at the AH, they all sold for 10 golds each, so I made 27 golds in profits, not too bad :lol

I <3 teh farmerz!

Up to 300 golds now in two days with incredible luck. Can't grind for xps though, god I remember why I am sick of PvP servers sometimes :/

 

[MrPing1000]

Damn the eastern plaguelands is fun. Plaguewoods are a warrior paradise, there are skele mages that have paper hp and armour and cast a -20int 10min debuff when they die :lol mow through them. I was doing the release the darrowshire spirits quest and a Heart seaking xbow dropped. Easy 30g

Drops quite often.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

EPL is only notable for Tyr's Hand and the lakes.

Edit - The Noxious Glade also if you're farming reputation.

 

[border]

I'm slowing grinding to 60 with my warrior, and after following this thread for some time I'm not sure whether I should be happy or disappointed to finally reach that plateau. Some questions though:

How should I go about finding a good guild for raiding and PvP? How do I make sure I'm not signing up for a shitty guild? I'm still pretty much a noob -- haven't even seen MC, LBRS, Onxyia's Lair, etc. I don't have any +Fire Resistance gear that'd be suitable for going to a place like MC.....and I'd probably have to spend 1000 - 1500g to even be able to afford a decent set of Fire Resistance gear. Since I'm a melee class I would imagine this stuff is important. Can I expect any decent guilds to take me in this state?

If I join a guild, will I be expected to get a microphone and use a VOIP program for in-raid communication? Anybody know if it's possible to use an XBL headset as a mic (I have the Plantronics Halo 2 headset, for what it's worth)?

It seems like several of the later quests are asking me to do 5-man groups in dungeons that are typically done as 10-man. Do I have any hope of finding groups for this without an enthusiastic and generous guild? I can't even start grinding Argent Dawn reputation until I do a 5-man Stratholme run, but most people seem to think that's suicide.

 

[Ferrio]

I'm slowing grinding to 60 with my warrior, and after following this thread for some time I'm not sure whether I should be happy or disappointed to finally reach that plateau. Some questions though:

How should I go about finding a good guild for raiding and PvP? How do I make sure I'm not signing up for a shitty guild? I'm still pretty much a noob -- haven't even seen MC, LBRS, Onxyia's Lair, etc. I don't have any +Fire Resistance gear that'd be suitable for going to a place like MC.....and I'd probably have to spend 1000 - 1500g to even be able to afford a decent set of Fire Resistance gear. Since I'm a melee class I would imagine this stuff is important. Can I expect any decent guilds to take me in this state?

You just hit 60, no raiding guild will want you right now. You're going to have to do a lot of Pugs and try to get your Blue class set or something equivilent. Also the experience you get from these non raid end game instances will get you better prepared for raid instances.

If I join a guild, will I be expected to get a microphone and use a VOIP program for in-raid communication? Anybody know if it's possible to use an XBL headset as a mic (I have the Plantronics Halo 2 headset, for what it's worth)?

Yes, any serious end game raid guild will require you to do so.

It seems like several of the later quests are asking me to do 5-man groups in dungeons that are typically done as 10-man. Do I have any hope of finding groups for this without an enthusiastic and generous guild? I can't even start grinding Argent Dawn reputation until I do a 5-man Stratholme run, but most people seem to think that's suicide.

End game instance quests are pretty worthless unless there's a specific item you want. So unless there's an item in the quest that you can get better from just boss drops, then there's no point. THat's usually why you don't see many people 5 manning, the rewards aren't very good compared to the effort.

 

[Ferrio]

Looks like Thunderfury was nerfed into oblivion on 1.9. Many people reporting the weapon is even close to what it's needed to make, and that regular BWL drops can out perform it.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Also, you're a warrior and warriors are now more popular than rogues according to the census. You're going to have a hell of a time getting a group for anything at all.

 

[Malakhov]

Just tanked Sunken Temble as a 49 warrior, let's say the last boss was quite something to tank him being 6 lvls higher than I and elite.

Great fun and great xp though!

 

[border]

Also, you're a warrior and warriors are now more popular than rogues according to the census. You're going to have a hell of a time getting a group for anything at all.

You always seem to take a curt sort of pleasure in telling people they are going to have an awful time playing this game

I get unsolicited whispers from at least 1 person needing a tank nearly everytime I spend more than 10 minutes in Orgrimmar. For 50-60 characters on my server, Rogue is still the most popular class, with Shaman and Warrior tied for 2nd. I'm not really worried about getting pugs (just worried about getting good pugs).

End game instance quests are pretty worthless unless there's a specific item you want.

Well the 2 quests I have are for initiating Argent Dawn rep collecting and Master Axesmith. You'd think there would be some people interested. Most of the other late dungeon quests I'm not interested in.....hell, I'm kind of infuriated with blacksmithing as it is.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I get unsolicited whispers from at least 1 person needing a tank nearly everytime I spend more than 10 minutes in Orgrimmar. For 50-60 characters on my server, Rogue is still the most popular class, with Shaman and Warrior tied for 2nd. I'm not really worried about getting pugs (just worried about getting good pugs).

I mean getting into a raiding guild.

Also, I'm a 60 warrior.

 

[border]

I mean getting into a raiding guild.

Ahhhh, ok. That was my main concern.

Playing around with the census tools, it looks like warriors only outnumber rogues if you add in the really low-levels. I imagine a lot of people start warriors and then quit just because it's so bland at first. Or maybe they're just starting warriors because their 60 rogues don't have much to do because their group role still seems kinda screwy.

 

[Malakhov]

Did more instances, dinged 50 tonight, got 2 lvls since I've started replaying my Warrior yesterday, not bad.

 

[LukeSmith]

Looks like Thunderfury was nerfed into oblivion on 1.9. Many people reporting the weapon is even close to what it's needed to make, and that regular BWL drops can out perform it.

In terms of DPS - Thunderfury for Rogues is still the highest damage weapon in the game, regardless of the proc nerf. However, can I justify using 10 elementium to make an orange weapon for someone, when I can use those same 10 elementium (in Ore form) to craft three Blessed Qiraji items from Ahn'Qiraj? As a raid leader I really can't. I'll finish one of ours for the guild and likely that will be it.

The Blessed Qiraji staves are almost as good, if not as good for offensive casters as the Staff of Shadow Flame from Nef. The shields you construct are superb, some of the other Blessed Qiraji weapons (a 1h axe) aren't so hot compared to Nefarian loot, but both the healing staff and the casting staff are superb pieces for 3 ore and would benefit the raid group more, in my opinion.

 

[Stuggernaut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch_fullscreen?video_id=Yhm1ClW5uAY&l=117&fs=1&title=Frost Shock

:lol

 

[JackFrost2012]

Discussion thread in the main forum.

 

[Zaptruder]

In terms of DPS - Thunderfury for Rogues is still the highest damage weapon in the game, regardless of the proc nerf. However, can I justify using 10 elementium to make an orange weapon for someone, when I can use those same 10 elementium (in Ore form) to craft three Blessed Qiraji items from Ahn'Qiraj? As a raid leader I really can't. I'll finish one of ours for the guild and likely that will be it.

The Blessed Qiraji staves are almost as good, if not as good for offensive casters as the Staff of Shadow Flame from Nef. The shields you construct are superb, some of the other Blessed Qiraji weapons (a 1h axe) aren't so hot compared to Nefarian loot, but both the healing staff and the casting staff are superb pieces for 3 ore and would benefit the raid group more, in my opinion.

The blessed Qiraji ranged weapons are a complete joke.

 

[SyNapSe]

Is it impossible to farm the items out of instances anymore? A few days back I had a 58 mage friend run my druid through SM library for the Illusionary Rod that Doan drops. After the first run we did 2 more but Doan wasn't there.. I had us exit the game after the 2nd one and he still didn't pop.. Is there a timer now?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Is it impossible to farm the items out of instances anymore? A few days back I had a 58 mage friend run my druid through SM library for the Illusionary Rod that Doan drops. After the first run we did 2 more but Doan wasn't there.. I had us exit the game after the 2nd one and he still didn't pop.. Is there a timer now?

You have to reset the instance. You were doing the same instance as before with respawns.

The easiest way to reset is just to have a guildy start a group and invite you so that you join their new instance.

 

[Ripclawe]

EPL is only notable for Tyr's Hand and the lakes.

Edit - The Noxious Glade also if you're farming reputation.

tyrs hand is bleh now with the respawn time changed and the loot table seems to have changed. Thankfully got my tiger mount money before the nerf.

I have never known noxious glade to be that good for farming.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I have never known noxious glade to be that good for farming.

They all drop Invader Scourgestones and they're 57-60 non-elites.

 

[border]

try to get your Blue class set or something equivilent.

How do I go about getting this set for warriors? Would I be seen as a worthy addition to a guild if I just got the Champion's Battlegear set, or do I need something that is more based around Stamina and Defense bonuses? For someone just starting into the end game material, is it better to go for +Defense gear or +Fire Resistance gear?

Also, should I re-spec to Protection now that I am nearly at 60? Mortal Strike has been awesome for non-dungeon PvE (and very useful for non-raid instances), but I'm not sure if it will hold up as well for the raid instances. I have really enjoyed PvP since it's a way to progress without guild help, but I worry that if I switch to Protection then I won't be of much use in Battlegrounds.

I heard a little bit about Ahn'Quiraj on a podcast recently, and they claimed it was a dungeon that was meant for groups with multiple tanks.....hopefully this will bump up the demand for Horde Warriors a bit.

 

[Ferrio]

How do I go about getting this set for warriors? Would I be seen as a worthy addition to a guild if I just got the Champion's Battlegear set, or do I need something that is more based around Stamina and Defense bonuses? For someone just starting into the end game material, is it better to go for +Defense gear or +Fire Resistance gear?

Also, should I re-spec to Protection now that I am nearly at 60? Mortal Strike has been awesome for non-dungeon PvE (and very useful for non-raid instances), but I'm not sure if it will hold up as well for the raid instances. I have really enjoyed PvP since it's a way to progress without guild help, but I worry that if I switch to Protection then I won't be of much use in Battlegrounds.

I heard a little bit about Ahn'Quiraj on a podcast recently, and they claimed it was a dungeon that was meant for groups with multiple tanks.....hopefully this will bump up the demand for Horde Warriors a bit.

First of all, most guilds you're going to join will probably have well established tanks. Meaning you might just be a very minimal tank, or will be a DPS warrior. If you plan to tank, then yes you need stamina and defense. Basically anyone that's in high end raids will probably have 2 to 3 sets of gear. Most warriros in my guild have 3 sets (fire res, damage, tanking), and I (rogue) have 3 (HP, damage, fire res).

The more you options you have the better you'll look to guilds.

As for fire res, it's not needed unless you go to MC, which probably won't be for awhile, and definitely won't be going to AQ.


But right now I'd suggest you just run lots of pugs and try to get hang of regular 60 instances, while trying to pick up gear along the way. During Pugs is probably your best bet of getting snagged into a guild if you impress them. Right now you need to learn how to play the game.

 

[Malakhov]

I specced into Prot this afternoon since all I do is instances since I've hit lvl 50 and I'm on a PvP server, so yeah you should spec into Proc if you wanna run instances, it helps a whole lot.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Also, should I re-spec to Protection now that I am nearly at 60?

I find the Prot tree completely useless and unnecessary for tanking. The only sort-of okay talents in the tree are Last Stand, Iron Will, or Anticipation if you're not geared-up in enough blues yet, and all of those talents can be used in a generic 31/5/15 Arms build.

I find it a bit alarming that there are people that are actually willing to completely gimp their PVP game and their solo farming damage potential by dropping Arms or Fury just to get 2 seconds taken off their Taunt cooldown and a weak +700 armor talent buff.

 

[LukeSmith]

I find the Prot tree completely useless and unnecessary for tanking. The only sort-of okay talents in the tree are Last Stand, Iron Will, or Anticipation if you're not geared-up in enough blues yet, and all of those talents can be used in a generic 31/5/15 Arms build.

I find it a bit alarming that there are people that are actually willing to completely gimp their PVP game and their solo farming damage potential by dropping Arms or Fury just to get 2 seconds taken off their Taunt cooldown and a weak +700 armor talent buff.

Yeah why would anyone ever want defiance?
You do play this game, right?

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Protection specialization may not be critical for Dungeon tanking but it is for Raids. Defiance can help a lot and extra Rage-burners are always useful so Shield Slam is helpful too since it generates a lot more Hate than the other two 30-Point abilities. The latter is debatable though, but in the least you should have the core innate bonuses like Defiance, Toughness, and so forth.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yeah why would anyone ever want defiance?
You do play this game, right?

Yes, and I've main tanked all of MC and Onyxia without a single point in Prot, without difficulty and without deaths.

Why would I want Defiance when I can hold aggro fine without it? I don't see the point in me wasting 5 talent points just because the DPS classes can't wait for me to get a few sunders in before they attack.

Toughness

A shitty 5 point talent. If you have 8000 armor, you will have 8800 after the talent buff. If an enemy hits you for 1500, you're only mitigating 34.2 damage per hit. This also ignores the fact that against elemental or magic-using enemies, this talent does absolutely nothing since magic doesn't factor armor. I don't understand why anyone would want to blow 5 points in this talent when Iron Will is in the same tier and gives you 15% resistance to stun and charm. That's a far, far more effective talent, imo, especially if you're already an orc warrior.

 

[LukeSmith]

Yes, and I'm main tanked all of MC and Onyxia without a single point in Prot, without difficulty and without deaths.

Why would I want Defiance when I can hold aggro fine without it? I don't see the point in me wasting 5 talent points just because the DPS classes can't wait for me to get a few sunders in before they attack.

Horde, right?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Horde, right?

haha touche. I'll give you that one talent.

 

[hobart]

I don't see the point in me wasting 5 talent points just because the DPS classes can't wait for me to get a few sunders in before they attack.

See... I just want intelligent guild members. WTB Brains for my guild, 2500g. kthnx.

 

[LukeSmith]

haha touche. I'll give you that one talent.

The importance of Defiance - in non-salv raids (which soon the Horde will have anyway) - isn't really expressed in MC/Onyxia.

Sure, she wing buffets, but she doesn't really have the touchy aggro cap like boss mobs in BWL (beginning at Broodlord and through Flamegor(though any decent guild won't ever see Ebonroc or Flamegor hit their aggro caps)) - which is where threat generation becomes important as your healers have to generate less threat over time than your tanks or pure hilarity ensures.

But, yeah if you're an Alliance warrior tank 31/20 A/Fury, the tank for the guild who killed Nefarian first was 31/20 at the time - it's just not a luxury non-salv raiding can enjoy because threat generation (in terms of warrior aggro vs. healing aggro) is given high priority at end game.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Nonetheless it's still worth it for a tank when an entire raid and guild is relying on you to be 100% the up-most perfect defensive machine possible. (This refering to the current major goal, whether it be learning Nefarian earlier this Autumn or Ahn'Qiraj Temple right now).

 

[LukeSmith]

Nonetheless it's still worth it for a tank when an entire raid and guild is relying on you to be 100% the up-most perfect defensive machine possible. (This refering to the current major goal, whether it be learning Nefarian earlier this Autumn or Ahn'Qiraj Temple right now).

Or Nefarian in June when the majority of the raiding playerbase will be at him

 

[nataku]

So Illidan Alliance players suck, horribly. Worst PvPers I've ever encountered. AV losses on a daily basis (I think they win once or twice a month) and the players are generally pretty rude. No one listens in AV... most players there seem to think you can do everything solo and win.

I need a new server. PvP is what I would prefer, and some fairly even BG matches would be nice. People that know how to listen and actually plan out how to win would be a big plus... Anyone know of a good server?

Definitely gonna go Horde this time as well. Going from 1-60 and getting my gear again will suck but... it's either that or I quit.

 

[epik]

Cry some more, honestly. Who listens in a pug anyway? Dont expect 40 randoms to listen to orders in an AV game let alone any BG.

Warsong ftw.. Its a different perspective beating the game and all. I look at things differently and I dont plan to flame. Yes the guild that I am in, are expert players. <Insomniacs> ... Good luck to all new comers.




P.S Nefarian fight is long ... but so easy -.-

 

[Ramirez]

LoL,be an elitist jackass more please.

 

[LukeSmith]

Cry some more, honestly. Who listens in a pug anyway? Dont expect 40 randoms to listen to orders in an AV game let alone any BG.

Warsong ftw.. Its a different perspective beating the game and all. I look at things differently and I dont plan to flame. Yes the guild that I am in, are expert players. <Insomniacs> ... Good luck to all new comers.




P.S Nefarian fight is long ... but so easy -.-

I'm sure Ebok would be thrilled to see you representing <Insomniacs> so well on the internet.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

So Illidan Alliance players suck, horribly. Worst PvPers I've ever encountered. AV losses on a daily basis (I think they win once or twice a month) and the players are generally pretty rude. No one listens in AV... most players there seem to think you can do everything solo and win.

I need a new server. PvP is what I would prefer, and some fairly even BG matches would be nice. People that know how to listen and actually plan out how to win would be a big plus... Anyone know of a good server?

Definitely gonna go Horde this time as well. Going from 1-60 and getting my gear again will suck but... it's either that or I quit.

Come roll Horde on Bloodscalp; even numbers worldwide, and the alliance can't win AV worth shit. Ride through their lines past them as a distraction; they'll follow you, desparate for that 10 rep with Stormwind/Ironforge/etc. Better yet is the listening involved on my end, people know when a charge is made to charge, fight on the flag, etc. Pug wins of 50 minutes are not uncommon.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Come roll Horde on Bloodscalp; even numbers worldwide, and the alliance can't win AV worth shit. Ride through their lines past them as a distraction; they'll follow you, desparate for that 10 rep with Stormwind/Ironforge/etc. Better yet is the listening involved on my end, people know when a charge is made to charge, fight on the flag, etc. Pug wins of 50 minutes are not uncommon.

Those Alliance warriors must be Protection specced.

 

[Ferrio]

Rag down for the 2nd time, went down like a bitch first try. Also got my BloodFang pants!

 

[Ikse]

Our guild killed Hakkar for the first time tonight on our first attempt. Anyone else find the fight a bit underwhelming, especially compared to the fun fights with Tiger and Panther priests.

 

[Ferrio]

Our guild killed Hakkar for the first time tonight on our first attempt. Anyone else find the fight a bit underwhelming, especially compared to the fun fights with Tiger and Panther priests.

General concensus. That's why they're nerfing tiger/panther and inreasing hakkar's difficulty.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Those Alliance warriors must be Protection specced.

Self serving, more like it. Fishing, trying to ninja a graveyard half-assed, capturing mines, etc. It's like the good ones get their TUF, Don Julio's, and TIO, and amscray to the greener HK pastures of AB.

 

[hobart]

General concensus. That's why they're nerfing tiger/panther and inreasing hakkar's difficulty.

What you guys do about Spider boss? We've got a strat but have yet to find the right group to fully listen to what we need to do.

Heard they were nerfing Spider as well, actually.