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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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Teknopathetic
Member
"It seems like everybody on message boards is either so bad at PVP that they want their class to get a Win Button, or an unstoppable uber-monster."
Well, the big thing I want is that resisted AOEs don't pull you out of stealth or possibly non-damaging AOEs, too. And multi-shot won't hit you if they can't see you.
Everything else doesn't really bother me.
Well, the big thing I want is that resisted AOEs don't pull you out of stealth or possibly non-damaging AOEs, too. And multi-shot won't hit you if they can't see you.
Everything else doesn't really bother me.
Ferrio said:
Aren't you pretty epiced out anyway? And I don't think it really matters if you are, it's pretty clear that warriors will get much more out of end game epics than rogues will, because stuff like eviscerate, garrote, expose armor, etc don't scale.
I'm not saying I want rogues to be overpowered like they were (supposedly, didn't play on release) upon release, but I think it's pretty ridiculous like things like Demoralizing Shout, multishot, and resisted spells can break us out of stealth. I would comment about the flare thing, but that's being fixed.
If they're going to make us so reliant on stealth then there should ways of increasing our ability to stay stealthed. A rogue who's not stealthed is probably the least threatening class in the game. Some might say something like a hunter who's not out of melee isn't threatening, but they have plenty of tools to get away from melee distance, whereas the only things that a rogue has are inferior. On that note, the talent trees need to be reviewed, because so many of them are ridiculous garbage. Put all the "increase % to apply" in one talent, please, if you're going to make us apply poisons to be effect. Get rid of crap like Improved Vanish/Evasion/Distract, etc.
Teknopathetic
Member
Oh yeah, It'd also be nice if applying poisons didn't pull you out of stealth and was a shorter cast (or hell, instant cast, what does it hurt). Makes it a little tougher to be able to adapt to different classes when you're stuck with 2 poisons the entire match. I can't help but feel sad for some poor rogue who probably wanted to focus on spell casters have only Mind-affecting poison proc on me.
That's kind of what I was getting at earlier. While the input of highly experienced players is important, I think their viewpoint can get really skewed by having elite gear. Ferrio says he does just fine, but then again isn't he running around with a Legendary-quality sword and BWL armor? Of course you'll do just fine in BGs or World-PVP where 90% of your opponents are in endgame Blues or wrose.Hero said:
The other way things get skewed is by extreme focus on 1-on-1 fights in duel/non-gank situations....which probably comprise an extreme minority of the in-game PVP. Even if a 12-16 second Scattershot made 1-on-1 more fair, it totally screws up Battlegrounds. 12-16 seconds is enough time to cap a flag in AB/AV....and more than enough time for half the team to converge on a flag carrier in WSG. Even in 1-on-1, it's enough time for a hunter to run away and get off a full bandage (+2000 HP)....
border said:
Nope, still just got a brutality blade, and blue sword. Haven't gotton a single drop from BWL
. But that's beside the point since I was commenting what Tre said (below).Never said rogues don't get their asses handed to them. But they do just fine once they're geared out. I can take out warriors in grand marshall gear which is comparibly a lot better than what I'm wearing.
Great Wasabi Man
Member
Deg said:
ummm....no.
I use AotC alot in PvP, espcialy after the other player is trapped.
Freeze -> AotC to max range -> AotH -> Aimed -> AotC -> Conc Shot -> Kite. If they get to close AotM WC or CA and repeat.
Maybe I'm just crazy or something. I thought that many many pages ago Liu Kang was arguing with you over whether or not it was "right" for you (as a rogue) to have the Windseeker sword (arguably a tank sword). Sorry if I remembered wrong.....I'm a bit too lazy to look it up now. Isn't your guild well-into BWL, at least?Ferrio said:Nope, still just got a brutality blade, and blue sword. Haven't gotton a single drop from BWL
Teknopathetic
Member
I think he's got both bracers for the Thunderfury and is just working to get the rest of the mats or something.
Teknopathetic
Member
Edited out because I wasn't sure.
firex said:
Yeah, that's what I've been hearing, and I hope it comes true..but if all three classes are getting reviewed at the same time, I wonder if that'll be better or worse than getting it individually.
And if you agree with that all three need it badly why were you arguing with me earlier?
But I'm pretty happy, last week I got a Libram of Focus drop in Dire Maul and tonight I won the roll for the Hyper Radiant Flame Reflector schematic.
Btw how do you make Thunderfury anyway?
border said:
Yeah all they need to do is use a ranged weapon and you're done, you become dizzy. The traps for hunter also dont do enough. How usefull is burning people? not much. Freezing them for 3-5 seconds isnt nearly enough especially as they can still attack. Dont see the point of traps.
Hero said:
In short you need:
10 Elementium Bars
Both Bindings of the windseeker
Essence of the firelord
To smelt 1 Elementium Bar:
10 Arcanite bars
1 fiery cores (drops by trash in MC)
1 elementium ore (drops by goblins in BWL)
3 elemental flux (bought from vendor for 12-15g each)
The long
First you need 2 Legendary bindings, one off of Baron Geddon, and Garr in Molten Core. Both have a very low drop rate, so getting both is a pain. I know guilds who have been doing molten core longer than our guild and haven't completed the bindings. We've had 2 people get both bindings, and one who has one of them. Welcome to WoW's loot system.
Once you get one of these you can start a quest in silithus. After accepting the quest you can get a lengendary drop off Ragnaros (100% drop rate quest item).
Lastly you need 10 elementium ore, which drop off the goblins in BWL, most which are after the 4th boss. You must then learn smelting of elementium by the NPC right before Ebonroc (fifth boss).
You then smelt the elementium bars using all the arcanite and crap.
After that is done you take all the components back to the NPC in silithus, and he summons Thunderaan (basically a nature version of rangaros). You kill him, he drops a quest sword, you turn the quest sword in and you get Thunderfury.
I would of gotton the sword long long ago, except for the elementium ore. Unfortunately once AQ was announced no guilds wanted to give up their elementium ore since it's used to make some of the items in AQ40.
Teknopathetic
Member
"How usefull is burning people? not much. Freezing them for 3-5 seconds isnt nearly enough especially as they can still attack"
As a frequent victim of FD/FT, I can attest: freezing trap lasts a hell of a lot longer than 3-5 seconds. And they can't attack. You're thinking FROST trap, which slows them down, which helps keep you out of their range. And in the context of WSG, slows down flag carriers or slows down flag chasers.
Explosive trap pulls rogues/druids out of stealth (if the rogues are dumb enough not to have detect traps on) and extra dps which is always welcome.
As a frequent victim of FD/FT, I can attest: freezing trap lasts a hell of a lot longer than 3-5 seconds. And they can't attack. You're thinking FROST trap, which slows them down, which helps keep you out of their range. And in the context of WSG, slows down flag carriers or slows down flag chasers.
Explosive trap pulls rogues/druids out of stealth (if the rogues are dumb enough not to have detect traps on) and extra dps which is always welcome.
I never said rogues didn't need a revamp, just that complaining about death coil (being one of two defensive abilities warlocks have in pvp, and the most reliable one as it isn't pet-dependent) is stupid. trust me, if your lock isn't 60 yet or your server isn't as geared out as kilrogg is, you'll see why it's not an "I win" button.Hero said:Yeah, that's what I've been hearing, and I hope it comes true..but if all three classes are getting reviewed at the same time, I wonder if that'll be better or worse than getting it individually.
And if you agree with that all three need it badly why were you arguing with me earlier?
But I'm pretty happy, last week I got a Libram of Focus drop in Dire Maul and tonight I won the roll for the Hyper Radiant Flame Reflector schematic.
Btw how do you make Thunderfury anyway?
Son of Godzilla
Banned
AQ finally opened up for server on thursday and we spent weekend raiding shit. It's so much better than anything else in the game it's crazy. The prophet's yells were great, the descent into the rotting vag inside the temple is creepy as fuck. And then the Sartura fight. Holy shit, it's one of the best encounters I've seen in any game. It is an insanely well done fight and really tests whether or not your dps classes are fucking morons. Essentially your range classes tank her by keeping her permanently switching targets and rogues go in and out as she becomes stunnable/godmode. Then there's the gauntlet and the pure chaos that is the fankriss fight. Then we kinda got cock blocked by Huhuran, first night not having enough NR, and second night not managing the tank transitions well enough. Pure resist fights are gay as hell, especially those that require absolute flawless tank transitions.
Anyway yea. Shit was amazing, Sartura is easily the funnest fight in game, so far.
Anyway yea. Shit was amazing, Sartura is easily the funnest fight in game, so far.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=7490800&s=blizzard&tmp=1#blizzardfirex said:
Eyonix said:
Tank questions Part 5
If I can't hold aggro on group pulls of trash mobs in UBRS, Scholo, etc....is it my fault or the group's fault? It seems like I generally have two choices:
1.) Hold aggro really well on one mob
2.) Hold aggro half-assed on two or more mobs
Which is better? I hate to just concentrate on one guy while other mobs hammer the rogues and mages, but if I try to tank multiple targets I'll generally lose one or both of them anyway. The other part of the problem is that if you have 2-3 rogues in the group, a mob you are trying to tank will be stunlocked for 5-10 seconds after initial engagement....since I'm not taking any damage from them, I can't build enough rage to hold aggro with Sunders. Meanwhile the rogues are accumulating so much threat that there's no way I can pull a mob off them after the stuns wear off.
None of this really matters since you can pretty much blaze through UBRS with 15-man raid (or Strat/Scholo with 10).....though it kinda sucks feeling like your class is only good for boss encounters or neutralizing a single mob out of a multi-mob pull.
If I can't hold aggro on group pulls of trash mobs in UBRS, Scholo, etc....is it my fault or the group's fault? It seems like I generally have two choices:
1.) Hold aggro really well on one mob
2.) Hold aggro half-assed on two or more mobs
Which is better? I hate to just concentrate on one guy while other mobs hammer the rogues and mages, but if I try to tank multiple targets I'll generally lose one or both of them anyway. The other part of the problem is that if you have 2-3 rogues in the group, a mob you are trying to tank will be stunlocked for 5-10 seconds after initial engagement....since I'm not taking any damage from them, I can't build enough rage to hold aggro with Sunders. Meanwhile the rogues are accumulating so much threat that there's no way I can pull a mob off them after the stuns wear off.
None of this really matters since you can pretty much blaze through UBRS with 15-man raid (or Strat/Scholo with 10).....though it kinda sucks feeling like your class is only good for boss encounters or neutralizing a single mob out of a multi-mob pull.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
In those situations there are usually 2 or more tanks, so you should have a main tank on the Hunter's mark mob, and the off-tank grabbing whatever. Also, there should be saps, sheeps, sleeps, shackles, and seduces going on to crowd control. But when the situation absolutely calls for tanking multiple things at once, I just focus on one main mob and Demoralizing Shout at the very beginning to try and get everything on me. I sunder the crap out of one mob so I have guaranteed aggro from it, then wait for Revenge to pop up. When it pops up, I immediately taunt another mob, Revenge it, sunder it a couple times, and ping-pong attacks between the two mobs. Repeat until everything is down.
It's not your fault if things seem too crazy to handle, because usually there really are too many things to tank at once. However, just try and keep everything off the healers, and ignore any adds on rogues or hunters. Mages and warlocks should be trying to keep things off of themselves with their abilities, but if things get bad, help them too.
It's not your fault if things seem too crazy to handle, because usually there really are too many things to tank at once. However, just try and keep everything off the healers, and ignore any adds on rogues or hunters. Mages and warlocks should be trying to keep things off of themselves with their abilities, but if things get bad, help them too.
People who think death coil is overpowered or needed the nerf are obviously not casters. The DC nerf not only screws Warlocks out of having any decent healing or escapes, but REALLY screws alliance warlocks having to fight legions of undead. PVP is already horde dominated and this change only imbalances things more. WTG Blizzard.
border said:
I'd like to add that in certain situations -Say 5-man Scarlet strath initial pulls- you can demoralizing shout, thunderclap, whirlwind, cleave, etc and manage to hold an entire group by yourself. I've done Scarlet strath many times without a mage for AoE using this method. Just keep an eye on the healer at all times.
Otherwise, in typical PUG raids, don't worry too much about it. Unless someone that knows the instance well, takes charge and uses CC properly, it's a zerg-fest. Just do your best and pray people know what "assist" means.
Oh, and follow Lui kangs advice.
cubicle47b
Member
Fear is a 1.5 second cast. With a rogue, fury warrior, or hunter pet beating on you it's 4 seconds and the warrior and rogue can easily kick, pummel, or shield bash it. Fear can also be broken by trinkets or will of the forsaken and frenzied pets, death wish, and berserker rage make you immune to fear. It can also be cleansed. And it's on diminishing returns and only affects one person.
I haven't read up on the death coil nerf. Thought it was only a PVE nerf. If it is PVP too it will just get used less on warriors (better have the succubus out or it's game over) where it's actually needed and more on casters to kill them quicker/easier.
edit:
If you're going to nerf death coil, nerf it by making the range 10 yards so that it will only get used on melee where it's needed.
cubicle47b
Member
It sounds more like a bug fix than a change. And it doesn't sound like it affects PVP.
Play a lock and you'll see. Like cubicle said, fear's cast time keeps it from being used defensively. And our fear spell... all I can say is, fear spells seem to work like this:Ramirez said:
If you're the one casting them for defense, they're going to break in 5 seconds or less.
If you're the one being hit by them, they're going to last the full duration with an entire raid attacking you.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The only people that think Fear or Death Coil are overpowered are those that have never played a Warlock. All a warlock can do is debuff, DOT, and bolt you. When you're a warrior or rogue right in their face, waiting for DOTs to bring you down is hardly enough defense.
Succubi or Felhunters are a different story.
Succubi or Felhunters are a different story.
krypt0nian
Banned
etiolate said:
Totally true. Hell its hard to run into a horde that's not Undead on Shadow Moon. That alone tells you racial fear immunity is not balanced.
arhra
Member
My guild just finished our first proper night of attempts on Vaelastrasz. Holy fuck that fight is intense. Went from wiping right as we pulled, to multiple 1% wipes (then finished the night with a priest pulling aggro from a multiple-crit PoH right as the MT engaged, and wiping us all near-instantly...).
It's vastly inferior to the Dwarf Priest's Fear Ward, which should be nerfed or WOTF buffed again (longer duration or shorter cooldown is all it needs). btw, most horde players pick undead or tauren because those just seem to have the most appeal to people. been that way since beta, and it has little to do with racials. It's like how people pick the absolute best races in the game for racials (humans and night elves) because they'd rather play a human than some other race.krypt0nian said:
If you don't know why human/NE have far and away the best racials...
endgame, nearly anything of advancement past 60 is a rep grind. 10% bonus to that is godly (and IMO should actually be a part of the rep system for all, and not given to one race exclusively). That one trait is better than war stomp or WOTF unless you want to grind BGs for a million years (and even then, the active racials don't make much of a difference in pvp).
Shadowmeld is 2 things: 1) free master of deception/feral instinct and 2) cheapness with aimed shot on a hunter (luckily this is being nerfed in 1.10)
seriously, human/NE have by far the best racials in the total package - humans have no downside whatsoever; NE's only downside is wisp form, which is still great for "we outnumber you so we're just going to zerg until you leave" world pvp action.
Tauren get, well, 2 good racials (endurance and war stomp), one ok one (+10 nature resist, even with AQ this hardly makes a difference), and +15 herbalism... which is entirely useless, unless you decide to go herb/something (and even then, 300 herb picks anything with no problems, so 315 is pointless much like the 315 engineering that gnomes can get is, though at least with that if you were to make a gnome BG twink you could get stuff that requires 240 skill without being level 35).
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You're somehow trying to say that +stamina and +nature resistance on one race is less appealing and useful than +rep or +dodge/AFK stealth on two different races?
NR is a wash since NE have it too, and +10 doesn't account for jack considering you have to have 75 just to go from "poor" to "fair." and 5% more HP, while nice, is the other "good" racial that tauren have. and it doesn't really compare to the value you get out of 10% more rep throughout the whole grind up to 60, much less at the endgame (not even including the 1800ish bonus rep you get with your faction just for being alliance, gogo having all races friendly with you while horde has to get to friendly with the forsaken, or forsaken having to get friendly with orcs/trolls/tauren).Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
The point of this, though, is that alliance racials are superior to horde ones - it's true that dwarves and gnomes have crap traits, but the only horde race with a combo of racials that benefits all classes is undead, while human/NE benefit all their class choices practically across the board (the only real exception being that human priests/mages/warlocks can only use maces or swords depending upon their class, so they only get one of the two weapon specs). It's subjective, I suppose, but only on the level of "I wish I had wotf in addition to my 10% rep, two weapon specs, stealth detection and 5% more spirit."
Now if tauren got mace spec (and humans lost it) and they lost +15 herbalism, I'd say both factions are equal in terms of racials. But as it is now, only one race for the horde actually has good racials across the board, while I don't see how anyone could complain about any of the NE/human racials.
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