The Lamonster
Member
Shit. I had stuff in my mailbox too. Hope it isn't lost forever!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
- Start date
- Status
Alex
Member
VGChampion said:
There are like at least 10 times as many tracks as that in the MPQ files. =/ I realize there's a ton of repeats in there with day/night cycles, etc, but there's a lot more originals than that.
I really dislike how they won't just give you the whole damn soundtrack with these game releases.
arts&crafts
Member
BigJonsson
Member
I wants to play now!
arts&crafts
Member
man WoW is the only game I have because I only brought my macbook to school 
why is it down for 12 hours.
why is it down for 12 hours.
arts&crafts
Member
well I am a rogue so they 90% hate me
I can't think of any fights that could be done with 40 but not 25. It isn't hard to imagine some things being lost in translation from 25-10 though. One of the biggest problems with 10 mans is that you cannot expect, say, a priest (or any one specific class) to be present. So, for example, you couldn't build a fight around mind control or mass dispel. A 25 man raid can easily expect 1 of each class though.TomServo said:
And obviously this is a subjective thing, but (at least amongst the more hardcore raiders) the biggest problem with TBC raids compared to vanilla raids is considered to be the loss of the epic feeling of them. Black Temple was a pretty cool place but it was definitely not as epic as Molten Core (which had many issues of its own, of course). Illidan and Archimonde had nothing on C'thun and Ragnaros.
Well, if by 'standard' you mean 'popular' then of course. Large scale raiding had a ton of issues with that, more casual players could not easily organize a 25 man raid like they could a 10 man. If by 'standard' you mean that it will become the focus of the harcore raiding scene, I very much doubt it. I would be genuinely surprised if people cared about, say, the world first 10 man Malygos, whereas Nihilum's site will probably crash from the traffic of their world first 25 man kill. Bragging about your guild killing a 10 man boss will carry as much weight as bragging about a Zul'jin kill (compared to, say, Vashj). And pretty much every serious raider I've spoken to has said they don't give a shit about the 10 mans and they're only interested in the 25 mans. In that regard 25 mans will still be the standard.
That's not to say that there's anything inherently wrong with 10 mans or the people that enjoy them. They're just there for the more casual players, the people who liked to run Kara/ZA every weekend though. I don't see the hardcore players embracing them that much.
Sax Russel
Banned
IcedTea said:
Well, admittedly you did say subjective, but, I'm also a "hardcore" raider and I'd have to disagree. Sure, the sense of scale is lost, but that's all Molten Core had. From a design standpoint, that place was horrible. It looks like something that could come out of a random dungeon generator. The fights you mentioned specifically, Rag and C'Thun, were probably the most epic of the 40 man encounters, but again, I think design comes into play. The fight mechanics in the Vashj, Kael'thas, Illidan, and Kil'jaeden fights made then very epic (at least pre HP nerf =P), and I don't think that was diminished by the fact that there were 25 people instead of 40. If you look up videos of the Malygos encounter, it looks pretty darn epic to me, and I can't wait to see what they have in store for upcoming raids. Just my opinions of course =P
TomServo said:
Yeah I umm doubt that. Like the above guy said, if by standard you mean "most popular" then sure, but thats not any different from how Kara is ran more than BT is now. Those of us running 25 mans will still be running them in the expansion, and I haven't heard a single person on my server nor in any of the other end game guilds including mine that cares about the 10 mans or who will be running them. Its not a bad thing for more people to be able to see the inside of these raids, not sure why you think we would even care about that.
Edit: I still even to this day feel C'Thun was the most epic feeling boss in the game. His phases were absolutely amazing, and getting gibbed by the laser when you had been running the guy long enough to know better was hilarious.
IcedTea said:
The "hardcore raiding scene" is going to be in for a bit of a nasty surprise, I think. People have been interested in large-scale raid progression because that's all there was. The "hardcore raiding scene" will keep the attention of the loot whores and the e-peen crowd, but they're going to drop off the map of the players who simply wanted continued progression.
Puncture said:
I'll counter with my own anecdotal evidence. A good number of our 25-man raiders (including officers) are looking forward to 10-man progression. Fewer headaches, less drama, less dead weight, same content progression.
The "hardcore raiding scene" has always amused me. They're such a tiny minority in the population, and watching them QQ as Blizzard has reigned in Tigole and shifted the focus off of the "hardcore raider" warms my cold heart. Seriously, in three years we've gone from building Naxx for probably 2% of the game's population to 10-man Arthas. Lovely.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I still feel bad for smaller more casual guilds. Instead of getting real new dungeons, they get simpler fights with MC Orbs and Arthas Jr. All because some forum trolls got butthurt seeing hyper-playtime guilds down 25-man bosses in days of existing live instead of just shrugging it off and playing like you want and can.
TomServo said:
And this is where your POV pretty much goes to shit. Your operating under the assumption that everyone running 25 mans are some type of elitists who GIVE A SHIT what you think about them and 25 man raids. My guild will continue running 25 mans because we have good people and we have fun doing it. Your talking about grown ass men and women here dude, noone gives a shit about e-peen, and if even less guilds are running 25 mans than they are now, none of us will give a damn. We pay every month for entertainment, so long as we are enjoying it we could give a shit whats popular or what you think about it.
So basically, who cares if there are less 25 man guilds in the expansion, so long as everyone is enjoying themselves, so what.
echoshifting
Banned
TomServo said:
What is the story with this constant spirit of animosity? God, I'm sick of it.
I raided classic heavily but I didn't raid hardly at all in BC. I'm in a guild now that is aiming for the 25-person raid game but should have no problems doing the 10-person raids if it doesn't work out. The 25-person encounters will almost certainly be more interesting and challenging, and of course provide better loot. But hey I know I'm going to be able to see the encounters one way or the other which is great.
I know there is this thirst among some of the bitter casuals to see the 25-person game come crashing down in WotLK - it was there in BC too when the 25-person switch was announced and Karazhan was revealed as a 10-person raid - and I don't get it at all.
MagicJackBauer
Banned
omg, when is this coming back up
echoshifting
Banned
Just updated, they're bringing them back up right now, all realms are supposed to be up by 6PST
Sounds like the problem isn't totally fixed though =/
Sounds like the problem isn't totally fixed though =/
Puncture said:
Not you specifically, but for the 2 years of vanilla, and less so for the almost 2 years of TBC, hard core raiders have been very vocal about their superiority complex; how it's easy to fine 39/24 other people; how if you can't, then you don't derserve anything; how "welfare" epics will kill the game; how if you don't give exclusive content to the "upper echelon", they'll quit and Blizz will lose money and the game will die; how the "lower echelon" looks up to the hard core people and without them, the lower people will have no motivation to do anything and that will kill the game; how Adam Smith smiles upon the hardcore raiders with his free-market glow, and giving content that everyone can do is socialism, I could go on.
That's why people think that hardcore people care about that, because for 4 years, there's been a great amount of bitching from some of them over this subject.
Puncture said:
But wait, no one will care about a world first 10-man Arthas kill, but the internet will explode when he goes down in 25-man mode! Right?
My point is that the only reason a large portion of the casual player base has given a shit about 40-man / 25-man progression is because that's all there was past UBRS / badge running. Once all of the content is opened up to them they're not going to care if you did the same thing they did with 15 additional people and some tweaks to the encounter.
You're operating under the assumption that people outside the 25 mans will give a shit what happens in that version of a raid.
That kind of ties into what I'm saying though. You don't lose much in the transfer from 40-25, but you do lose it going from 25-10. In a 25 man raid you can assume that you have enough healers to have 4 weapon/add tanks, you can assume that you have a tank that uses a shield to tank Kael with the Phaseshift Bulwark, you can assume you have mages to counterspell his fireballs during gravity lapses, you can assume you have a warlock to tank Capernian... I could go on all day. A 10 man needs to be designed around the idea that your tanks may be a druid and a death knight so you can't use the Bulwark mechanic. You might not have a hunter so you can't rely on having the bow debuff up. You might only have 2 aoe so the weapons need to be killable by 2 aoe, but if you have 5 aoe then it is a complete joke.Sax Russel said:
Kael is without a doubt the most epic fight in TBC and there is no way it would work in a 10 man. Vashj is probably number 2 and it would be a lot less epic if you only had 3-4 adds instead of ~10 all over the place.
While I'm on the subject, 10 mans cannot be balanced nearly as easily as a 25 man can be. In a 25 you can assume 95%+ of all raid buffs, but in a 10 man you might have 30% or you might have 75%. So if you tune the fight around the assumption of 30% buffs then those that build a raid around 75% are going to clear the place in a day or two, and if you balance around the idea of 75% of buffs being present than the more casual raid with only 30% doesn't have a chance in hell of getting anywhere. Since Blizzard is clearly doing this in the first place to make raiding more accessible to casual players, it seems pretty clear that things will be tuned around your standard mashup of classes, not against a stacked raid. The raid buff/debuff homogenization made raid stacking impossible in 25 mans but it is as important as ever in 10 mans, so 10 mans need to be tuned down with this in mind while 25 mans can be tuned to very high difficulty (I.E. M'uru).
Basically, the 25 man versions of raids will be more difficult and in some cases more epic feeling, and the mechanics will be more in depth, there will be more teamwork, and yeah, better loot involved. That is part of the raiding experience for a lot of people, so a lot of people will still be doing the 25s.
echoshifting
Banned
TomServo said:
Well, I think you're wrong. For one, we still don't know if people will have access to the 10-person raids until the 25-person raid is completed. In which case, that first Arthas kill is going to be a HUGE deal, much more significant than Illidan going down. It will be like the AQ gates opening.
But even if that doesn't turn out to be the case, people have always had some interest in seeing the raid content completed, even if they weren't participating in it. People will care.
Well said, FLEABttn. Players that weren't around in vanilla may not understand a bit of the hostility, but those that watched Blizzard cater to a smaller and smaller portion of the playerbase with BWL, AQ40, and Naxx while we got stale 5-mans (Dire Maul being the newest) and 20 mans that were almost a slap in the face (ZG difficulty was above MC) will understand some of the animosity.
If that's where my POV goes to shit, so be it. I'm returning because it looks to me like Tigole got his wings clipped, and the game is actually starting to cater to the demographic that pays the bills.
Blizzard comfirmed that 25-mans won't be required to run 10-mans a while ago.
If that's where my POV goes to shit, so be it. I'm returning because it looks to me like Tigole got his wings clipped, and the game is actually starting to cater to the demographic that pays the bills.
echoshifting said:
Blizzard comfirmed that 25-mans won't be required to run 10-mans a while ago.
Sax Russel
Banned
IcedTea said:
Oh I'll definitely agree with you about the 10 mans. I'd be ashamed to run a 10-man Arthas raid =P.
This is why I don't understand the animosity. I've got nothing against 10 mans being added to the game, I think they're great for people that wouldn't get to experience things otherwise. All I'm trying to say is that there is more reason to want to participate in a 25 man raid than for epeen and loot whoring. I could spend all day explaining it in more detail but I'm tired of talking about it so I'm sure people are tired of hearing about it.TomServo said:
10 mans will be easier and less in depth by the very nature of the game mechanics, and that will be enough to drive a lot of the hardcore crowd to the 25 mans. That's not a bad thing, and not a good thing, that's just how it is. Just look at the amount of interest in world first Illidan compared to world first Zul'jin.
Blizzard are such shit bags. I am perfectly fine with the servers being down and all, but at least be fucking truthful to your players, and not have them anticipating on playing at a time when it actually wont be ready. They claim they will be up by a certain time, then right on the dot, when it hits that time, they put up a new note saying it will be another hour. 9PM on the east coast, they claimed to be up by 5, then 8, then 9, now 10. And when we reach 10 it will be 11.
MagicJackBauer
Banned
knicks said:
Right, and on top of all that I know they lost all of our fucking mail.
They should just fucking say 'hey sorry we really screwed up on this and we don't know when servers will be back up. To show you we care we will compensate everyone's account with additional play time for however long the servers will be done for.'
Fuck you blizzard and fuck you for the BS we're all gonna go through this weekend.
Fuck you blizzard and fuck you for the BS we're all gonna go through this weekend.
They'll compensate your accounts, stop crying. Screw ups happen, and they are working as hard as they can to fix it. They have a lot to work on, with the maintenance, and the new expansion. It's not like they are doing this on purpose to fuck with people. They have always been good about compensating people when the issue is their fault.
So calm down, read a book or something.
So calm down, read a book or something.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
any gaffers play on Ner'Zhul? I just hit level 70 with my hunter on it.
I don't find anything special about larger raids other than that they consume more time. SSC and TK were just bigger pains, not greater gains. Hyjal is a 25 man that can be done quickly, has a real rhythm to it and has large, fun encounters. TK on the other hand, never felt like it had any rhythm to it.
It's about dungeon design, not size. Hyjal and ZA are leaps beyond TK.
It's about dungeon design, not size. Hyjal and ZA are leaps beyond TK.
witness said:
They've already compensated everyone's accounts with 3 days free played time.
I'd link you to the blue thread at the official WoW forums, but apparently they're down right now.
As for WoTLK launch, is anyone going to cosplay at Gamestop? I got a call tonight from them asking me to show up at 10:00pm tomorrow night as my favorite WoW character :lol :lol If any of you actually do this or see anyone who does, I want pics
bill0527 said:As for WoTLK launch, is anyone going to cosplay at Gamestop? I got a call tonight from them asking me to show up at 10:00pm tomorrow night as my favorite WoW character :lol :lol If any of you actually do this or see anyone who does, I want pics
Debating whether or not to go w/ my (hardcore raider ZOMG) buddy tomorrow night. I won't be in Northrend for at least a week, but I want to see some novelty.
TomServo said:
But thats just it, I'm not. I said it multiple times, believe it or not, the majority of us raid the 25 mans for FUN! I just said in my previous post that we dont care what people think about it or if they care, so long as we have fun. What have I said here that made you think I would care is people cared about what happened in 25 mans. "Other people" have nothing to do with it.
TomServo said:
If this is fueling your replies then IMO let it go. I raided all through classic also.
Been playing since day one, and before that beta. Grass is always greener IMO. I thought MC sucked and none of the raid instances were worth a damn until AQ40 and Naxx. And it really sounds like you have let poop socking 10 year olds on the forums make you think that everyone running a raid is some drooling retard looking for self worth. I enjoy the 25 man raids, if the 10 mans let more people in on it, then all the merrier. The reason we are probably getting Naxx rehashed again for lich king is because not enough gamers got to see it. Now we have to repeat pretty much copy/pasta raiding in LK..... If adding 10 mans so everyone can see Arthas will ensure the next expansion doesn't have me running a rehashed Icecrown instance because only 1% got to see it the first time, then its all good.
Jazzy Network
Member
yacobod said:
I remember BC turned out decently well server lag wise. I mean the first few days I played a decent amount and no problems other than the fact that everyone was doing the same quests as I was.
EDIT: Serious man? I thought BWL was fun as hell. I hated AQ40. The walk backs were way too long and the constant unmounting of your stupid bug pissed me off. AQ20 though, was and still is one of my favorite raids (OF course I don't do it anymore) along with Kara.
Puncture said:But thats just it, I'm not. I said it multiple times, believe it or not, the majority of us raid the 25 mans for FUN! I just said in my previous post that we dont care what people think about it or if they care, so long as we have fun. What have I said here that made you think I would care is people cared about what happened in 25 mans. "Other people" have nothing to do with it.
If this is fueling your replies then IMO let it go. I raided all through classic also.
Been playing since day one, and before that beta. Grass is always greener IMO. I thought MC sucked and none of the raid instances were worth a damn until AQ40 and Naxx. And it really sounds like you have let poop socking 10 year olds on the forums make you think that everyone running a raid is some drooling retard looking for self worth. I enjoy the 25 man raids, if the 10 mans let more people in on it, then all the merrier. The reason we are probably getting Naxx rehashed again for lich king is because not enough gamers got to see it. Now we have to repeat pretty much copy/pasta raiding in LK..... If adding 10 mans so everyone can see Arthas will ensure the next expansion doesn't have me running a rehashed Icecrown instance because only 1% got to see it the first time, then its all good.
omg ... you have me beat by ONE day. son of a bitch.
Jazzy Network
Member
Macattk15 said:
Yea because WoW didn't come out till the 23rd officially. He just happened to get it the previous night. Most of us are at the 23rd.
- Status