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[Son of Godzilla]

Haha, gg honor system.

It turns out that instead of limiting ranks to a certain number of players and having everything trickle from top, it's a percentage of total pvperz. What's that mean? Instead of the top 5/10/whatever people getting the top rank, it's given to those within a % of points. The end result is that on my server the top 11 alliance are knights, while only the top 4 horde get it. Zerg ftw indeed.

 

[Bregor]

Haha, gg honor system.

It turns out that instead of limiting ranks to a certain number of players and having everything trickle from top, it's a percentage of total pvperz. What's that mean? Instead of the top 5/10/whatever people getting the top rank, it's given to those within a % of points. The end result is that on my server the top 11 alliance are knights, while only the top 4 horde get it. Zerg ftw indeed.

This has been known about since well before the Honor system came out. If it wasn't a percentage, than all the rank spots would be filled by a limited few and the vast majority would never get a chance on the high population servers.

The Alliance / Horde rank comparison is bogus. When it comes to the rank you receive, all that matters is how you do in comparison to the other players in your own faction - its not like the alliance received those 11 spots at the expense of the horde. In fact, the Alliance Knights had to beat more players on their side to receive their rank than the Horde did.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Actually quite the opposite. The lowest rank 6 on alliance has 30k contri, while the highest rank 5 has 50k contri.

Our specific problem is that one person on the server (who is undoubtedly alternating players) is completely raping the alliance while the alliance stick to raid groups and split their hks/contris evenly.

Basically if this continues in such fashion the highest ranks will be unreachable by anyone at all. Which is super fun.

Only reason I mentioned the alliance is because more people = larger spread = more ranks (doesn't really affect horde, but certainly not "balanced" - horde has to perform twice as good as similarly ranked alliance just for being horde) and more contri for horde IF you have the time to sink. Add in an unstoppable warrior who never stops playing running around MSing everyone and their mother and you've got a huge difference between even the top 5 ranked horde.

 

[Bregor]

Horde isn't affected at all by the population difference. If they had their current population, and the Alliance had a tenth of that, the Horde still would have the same 4 spots. If the Horde had their current population, and the Alliance had a million members, the Horde would still have the same 4 spots. All that matters is how you perform in relation to your own faction - the size and ability of the opposing faction is totally irrelevant!

This has NOTHING to do with Alliance/Horde balance!

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Except it means everything.

Compared to alliance there's much fewer horde who pvp. This means less unique hks for alliance, add in less contri per repeated hk, and you've got less time invested to keep pace with those who do nothing but pvp.

Alternatively, because there are many more unique hks available for horde, one is able to keep grinding worthwhile hk/contri for a much longer time before the diminishing returns kick in, meaning a much much larger gap between people based on time invested.

 

[LukeSmith]

Except it means everything.

Compared to alliance there's much fewer horde who pvp. This means less unique hks for alliance, add in less contri per repeated hk, and you've got less time invested to keep pace with those who do nothing but pvp.

Alternatively, because there are many more unique hks available for horde, one is able to keep grinding worthwhile hk/contri for a much longer time before the diminishing returns kick in, meaning a much much larger gap between people based on time invested.

Sounds like you are whining because you are alliance and have less players to kill.
Reroll Horde, then.
There are always millions of alliance to kill on Eredar.

 

[Bregor]

Except it means everything.

Compared to alliance there's much fewer horde who pvp. This means less unique hks for alliance, add in less contri per repeated hk, and you've got less time invested to keep pace with those who do nothing but pvp.

Alternatively, because there are many more unique hks available for horde, one is able to keep grinding worthwhile hk/contri for a much longer time before the diminishing returns kick in, meaning a much much larger gap between people based on time invested.

What does this have to do with the percentage based ranking system? I thought that was what we were discussing? Or do you concede that there is nothing unbalanced with that aspect of the Honor system?

But to address your point...

The size of the gap is irrelevant - it is a function of the skill and time investment of the players, and not the availability of unique targets. The players who got ahead had to deal with the exact same factors as those who are behind, and are there because they chose to invest the effort necessary. And those that are behind have to match that effort if they wish to pass them.

Look, I'm not claiming that the current population imbalance doesn't make it more difficult on the Horde. Most notably it is more difficult to get kills (and therefore contribution points) when you find yourself outnumbered frequently. Even if you still get awarded a good rank (due to that 'horrible' percentage based system), it must be frustrating to be killed many more times than you kill others. But the ranks themselves are awarded fairly!

I doubt that much can be done about the pop. difference however - people will play what they want to play, and you can't change that.

 

[hobart]

This "problem" came to my attention when I first learned about the honor system.

What I decided was that I'd return to WoW... using my Main on an Alliance heavy server... only because I didn't wanna lose him.

However... I would reroll on a balanced server for the best PvP experience I could get. Seems fair enough... but I am in an interesting position considering my not playing for about 5 months.

I'm also thinking of rolling a character on PvE just for Battlegrounds... but we'll see.

Seriously... if you think it is such a problem... reroll on the new server. Highest guys are at high 40s low 50s at the moment. Not too many tho, either.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Ok. I seriously don't see how you aren't understanding this.

Percentage system = lock up ranks at expense of others.

My beef isn't the even that it's based on a percentage, it's that its based on a percentage per side. Putting in the same amount of "effort" on the alliance side earns a larger rank. That's unbelievably stupid.

Now, we can sit here and argue why this is possible forever. I am reasonably certain that it is because of A: a set of "players" alternating turns on same character and B: a population imbalance that makes this exceptionally rewarding.

Should this guy be rewarded for never logging off and never leaving TM? Sure, what the hell. Give him #1 standing. Should it deny rewards and ranks to people that would earn them had they put in the same amount of effort on the opposite faction? Umm...

 

[SyNapSe]

My server is one of the few where the balance is fairly equal/and or the horde has more players.

It's become IMPOSSIBLE for me to level my 45 Priest alt in both STV.. which isn't as bad.. and Gadgetzan which the horde OWN everynight almost all night. I jumped on one of the new servers and started a Druid.

It's crazy on my server, while the population is listed as almost dead even.. I"d bet the horde has about a 100/80 advantage for people pvping. The alliance just has a lot of people only interested in instancing.

 

[Bregor]

Ok. I seriously don't see how you aren't understanding this.

I understand it perfectly, do you?

Percentage system = lock up ranks at expense of others.

Nonsense, it creates exactly enough ranks available as there should be. If a rank is supposed to be available to only the top 1% of PVPers per side, then by making the top 1% automatically get it exactly satisfies this.

My beef isn't the even that it's based on a percentage, it's that its based on a percentage per side. Putting in the same amount of "effort" on the alliance side earns a larger rank. That's unbelievably stupid.

This is completely false. The effort neccessary to achieve a rank on your side is only dependent on the people you are competing with on your side! If the people that outrank you have put in a large amount of effort, than you have to exceed that effort to pass them - just as it should be!

If it takes a large amount of CP to climb in rank on your side, it is because the higher ranks on your side have taken the time to accumulate a large numper of CP.

If it takes a small amount of CP to climb in rank on your side, it is because the higher ranks on your side haven't bothered to gather many CP.

ALL that matters is the other players in your faction, they are the ONLY people you are competing with for rank. THEY determine how hard it is to beat them!

Now, we can sit here and argue why this is possible forever. I am reasonably certain that it is because of A: a set of "players" alternating turns on same character and B: a population imbalance that makes this exceptionally rewarding.

The population balance has an effect yes, but not in the way you have been trying to claim. (Multiple people playing the same character is an entirely different issue.)

Should this guy be rewarded for never logging off and never leaving TM? Sure, what the hell. Give him #1 standing.

Of course it should. Advancement in MMORPGs has always been mostly dependent on time invested, more so than skill. It's simply a matter of reward for effort.

Should it deny rewards and ranks to people that would earn them had they put in the same amount of effort on the opposite faction? Umm...

They are being denied the higher ranks because others on their side have put in more effort. This is caused by the competition on your side, not the population imbalance!

 

[Ikse]

It's become IMPOSSIBLE for me to level my 45 Priest alt in both STV..

They are PvP hotspots, try Feralas

 

[MrAngryFace]

Finally got my 'not fucking on a quest' armor set together. Good for hanging out around town and helping out noobs. Full set of armor all the time gets dumb. No need for overkill when helping lowbies.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I typed this while working on a final and finding out what the rank/standings were for the week. And after bashing my brains out all night on it, I've got no clue what I was arguing, what you are arguing, or any of it.

BUT that said,

a rank is supposed to be available to only the top 1% of PVPers per side, then by making the top 1% automatically get it exactly satisfies this

was exactly my beef I think. The rank as set up currently does NOT go to the top 1% of PVPers. It's dividing the contribution up and anyone with x% or more gets whatever rank. So if a single person manages to hold an entire x% of contribution, they get the rank solely to themselves.

 

[hobart]

But I thought the purpose of ranks was to have only one person at that rank..

i.e. 1 Grand Marshall and not 3 Grand Marshalls

 

[Bregor]

But I thought the purpose of ranks was to have only one person at that rank..

i.e. 1 Grand Marshall and not 3 Grand Marshalls

I think that the top rank is a one person only thing, but that anything below that can have multiple players of that rank if the population is high enough.

 

[firex]

I played with a decent one today, didnt talk much tho. Knew I was supposed to tank tho, which was nice. He just healed when the 3 level 22's managed to make a dent in my level 19 self heh.

I trio with a holy spec paladin and survival spec hunter, and goddamn are they awesome. But you're so right about the tards that play pally wanting to be some uber damage dealer/tank/healer.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Myself and several guild members took down Rexxar and Misha yesterday. It wasn't the most challenging battle ever, but it was good practice on taking down tougher targets while in a raid situation. Several of us have done molten core, but it has been with friend guilds. Our guild is just getting to the point where we can start thinking of running MC and Onyxia's Lair in-guild and we needed the practice.

 

[ManaByte]

I think that's the most cluttered UI mod I've ever seen. How can you play like that?

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

I don't normally. Yesterday was the first day I was using this UI, and I didn't have all of my keys bound yet for my spells. Now, that entire bottom-right side of the screen is hidden from view, except if I call it up. That and I turned the buff mod off, so it is back to the normal small icons. Plus that menu at the top is normally hidden, I just forgot to since I was still moving things around.

 

[hobart]

Is that an RP server?!

*points to: "I call upon the the light the heal Lavela!"*

Man that must get really tight if they gotta type that before every heal...

 

[firex]

been solo aeing with my mage after respeccing out of frost to arcane/fire, it's fun as hell.

 

[hobart]

What is the main diff between Arc/Fire and Arc/Frost? I've been looking at many vids of the two and, for when I do make a Mage, I'm really hard pressed as to which I'd rather be.

 

[Bregor]

What is the main diff between Arc/Fire and Arc/Frost? I've been looking at many vids of the two and, for when I do make a Mage, I'm really hard pressed as to which I'd rather be.

Fire has more straight up firepower, frost has more control with it's chilling effects. You have to go more fully into the Frost tree to truly develop it, so you would want a Frost/Arcane build instead of an Arcane/Frost build. Also keep in mind that a couple of the endgame instances have a lot of fire immune mobs in them.

My main has been a Arcane/Fire Mage for a while, and I have been really enjoying it - lots of damage available with this build.

 

[firex]

yeah, I am just going arcane/fire for low level big dps and blast wave. when I hit 50 or so I am gonna respec to frost/arcane, probably 33 frost/18 arcane.

 

[hobart]

That makes sense. Although the fire mages I've viewed are doing massive amounts of damage (inclluding alot of Scorch spamming... Boo!)... it seems as if the better skilled (and, even, more dangerous) Mages are those that spec in frost. Perhaps that I've just enjoyed viewing the Frost mages more... but it seems as if they have more control not only over their opponents... but over their UI and their own skill as well.

Good shit to watch.

 

[speedpop]

Yeah I am aiming for a Frost/Arcane Mage atm. It seems the more plausible to my playing style.. rather than dishing out intense dmg off the bat, I'd rather bide my time and serve the dmg (and frustrations) slowly yet surely.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Is that an RP server?!

*points to: "I call upon the the light the heal Lavela!"*

Man that must get really tight if they gotta type that before every heal...

No, just that all of our 60 priests have set macros that have some sort of saying to let everyone know who they are healing or rezzing. Most people also have macros set up that announce who they are shackling/sheeping/sapping. Just makes things a bit easier in battle.

 

[truesayian]

Hey hey, i'm kinda new at this thing....


but uh, Im a human warrior, , but uh, how do i learn to use two handed weapons?...

 

[Tamanon]

I believe two-handed weapons will be in Ironforge for axes, stormwind for swords and maybe Teldrassil for maces? Ask a guard where the Weapon Master is.

 

[truesayian]

Thanks, but yea, i already figured it out...

man, this game is getting a lot more fun now, that i made a few friends in the game... it's a blast now..

 

[MrAngryFace]

WoW can be A LOT of fun. Im having way more fun after my month off than before. I think its because ive experienced the addiction to level grind and have come out a stronger more casual player.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Haha, had a lame group this morning but managed to get an elite quest completed while they were getting us into trouble.

I meet up with this level 23 druid, and he's talking to me like im stupid.

"THESE ARE ELITES! YOU COULD TANK EM AT LEVEL 40 MAYBE HAW HAW!"

So he gets all mad cause the mage keeps drawing elites and I tank while the mage kills em.

"I WANTED TO BE IN CAT FORM! LET ME SNEAK IN!"

So I explain they're too packed it wont work that way and he gets mad cause im trying to tank. Mind you im effectively tanking 3 elites at once at this point.

"IF YOU DIE ITS NOT MY FAULT"

"No it isnt"

"YEAH THATS RIGHT!"

So at this point he stops healing me cause i guess he's gonna show me. So he gets us in a crapload of trouble, 3 elites and the 'boss' level 25 elite for the area. I manage to tank them fucking ALL and ALMOST die but we had picked up another NE druid along the way that actual healed me right before I died.

He leveled up from this and flexed cause you know he's a cool NE druid *rolleyes*. I ended up being slain by a bolt from a orc magic jerk. Which was mostly cause I couldnt get a shield bash off in time

God fucking damnit I hate most NE players. I CAN TURN INTO CAT LET ME I AM 2 LEVELS HIGHER I TANK!

YOURE A FUCKING DRUID STAND THE FUCK BACK IF NOT IN BEAR FORM!

 

[hobart]

Typical.

Seriously... I wish I knew people IRL that I could play with. Can't stand these 13 year old assfucks with no fucking clue how to play the class they rolled.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Im grouping a lot more than I used to when I was horde, and ive had about 50% success rate, which isnt HORRIBLE.

 

[firex]

I hate to stereotype, but I do find horde players generally have a better community (probably because it's smaller on a lot of them, so the bad seeds get known more easily). But yeah, I hate pickup groups too... They aren't too bad as a damage class, but god, doing them as a healer is atrocious.

 

[hobart]

In my limited time in the game (and from what I've gathered it hasn't really changed) pickup groups are next to impossible to come up with a strategy for instances with. I found that the people that I ran into the most (and began hanging out with in game) were easiest to actually come up with strategy... etc... for instance runs. (Makes sense, right?!)

In pickup groups... everyone has their own agenda. I got the biggest kick out of the fact that the group would only work (with 4 people mind you) because I took the time to actually support the entire group (heal... judge fury?... which ever wouldn't let mobs run when HP was low... tank). Sucked, but it helped me learn my class a whole lot better.

And, yeah, 50% sounds right. I still need to give the Horde a try when I get back.

 

[SaitoH]

I guess I've been really lucky. I never really had a bad group and I've meet lots of nice people. Not one ninja looter, no serious assholes. I have failed to complete instances before, but our group was either not strong enough, or not working together well enough. Instances always go better when there is someone experienced to take charge and when the mood is kept light.

 

[firex]

I've had... well, mostly non-assholes in alliance groups, but also absolutely clueless morons. I mean it's good that they're not rude AND a moron, but folks who just have no clue how to play their class and don't pay any attention... i.e. paladins who don't use any buffs, don't judge good seals, cloth wearers who roll on everything bind on equip and say they're an enchanter...

 

[speedpop]

I've had... well, mostly non-assholes in alliance groups, but also absolutely clueless morons. I mean it's good that they're not rude AND a moron, but folks who just have no clue how to play their class and don't pay any attention... i.e. paladins who don't use any buffs, don't judge good seals, cloth wearers who roll on everything bind on equip and say they're an enchanter...

Heh so fucking true. That's why I try not to group with anyone without one member from my guild who I can rely on. I dislike the players that don't know how to play their class and also certain leaders or pushy people that demand certain things whilst playing i.e. warrior needing to be healed. Yes, I am watching your health bar, concentrate on bandaiding/potioning your arse just in case you get dished a critical hit. Of course I'll never escape from that but I can always wish.

 

[Hooker]

You should also take a look at the other side of the story. Warriors roll on fucking EVERYTHING because they can use everything. Before I group with people I take a look at their equipment, and if the item which is being rolled for is less than that, they hell yes I'm gonna roll. You're going to sell it anyways!!!


I don't approve rolling for everything nor is this an excuse. But I fucking hate those shortminded retards who get their panties up in a bunch because someone else is going to sell that shiny green/blue/purple item instead of you who has a "better excuse"

 

[hobart]

Listen... you DON'T have to do this with me... considering I'm 21 days away... but... I'm seriously all up for rerolling when I return to the states. I think a few of us off GAF could actually, successfully, pull off a nice time on WoW with ease.

Take a look at warcraftcensus.com and pick a server (I'm talking new chars.. servers... the works) that has a good balance... decent number... and EITHER PvP or PvE (I would RATHER PvP with the new content here... however... Battlegrounds should be implemented by the time I return).

Lemme know. We can pick classes that best help the group, rather than ourselves. I'm up for that.

 

[Hooker]

I hope they open the servers up soon, I want to play in GAF guild as well :/

 

[Malakhov]

I'm thinking of reactivating my account but I'd start anew. A nice restart for everyone on the same server and same faction would be nice.

 

[Malakhov]

So what's the moft gaf populated server now? And wich faction?

I'm thinking of maybe starting a mage or a warlock.

 

[Agent Dormer]

Did anyone else roll on Smolderthorn when it launched on Sunday? I did, and I'm already at 25. It's been hella fun to see someone race to the top. If you guys are thinking about rolling, join there, it's like 1.2:1 Alliance to Horde, and really fun. Plus, there are still tons of people at low levels. Also, if you plan on doing this, let me know and I'll start collecting some greens/blues for you.

 

[Malakhov]

Is it a pvp server? Wich faction are you on?

 

[firex]

You should also take a look at the other side of the story. Warriors roll on fucking EVERYTHING because they can use everything. Before I group with people I take a look at their equipment, and if the item which is being rolled for is less than that, they hell yes I'm gonna roll. You're going to sell it anyways!!!


I don't approve rolling for everything nor is this an excuse. But I fucking hate those shortminded retards who get their panties up in a bunch because someone else is going to sell that shiny green/blue/purple item instead of you who has a "better excuse"

there's no other side. The point I'm making is a lot of pickup players just roll on everything instead of sharing. It's just pure greed... and they always give some BS excuse. Do I roll on everything? No. Do you roll on everything? I hope not. We both know that people who do that are dicks. That's all there is to it.

 

[firex]

So what's the moft gaf populated server now? And wich faction?

I'm thinking of maybe starting a mage or a warlock.

don't roll a warlock if you want to play on a pvp server. The closer you get to the cap, the more you get the shit kicked out of you by all but mage/pally/hunter with pretty much nothing you can do about it. At least if they're good at their class. And since rogues are super popular (and way fucking overpowered in pvp with their rank 2 trinket) you will die a lot to any rogue your level or higher in contested zones. That's what happens unless you go soul link, then you just take a little bit longer to die but still have no real defenses.

It's no bullshit like "warlock is hard on a pvp server, play it if you want a challenge," it's just flat out fucking broken and no fun. Mage is a lot better, warrior is also a lot better.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I dont roll on everything. If its not a one-handed sword/shield, or piece of mail or trinket, I dont want it.

Sure not everyones me, but warriors can be AWESOME!