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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I recently decided to make a group instead of looking for one, so I got to see first hand what it's like to organize a group.Hadoken said:
This was for TOC10 mind you, so I wasn't looking for gods here.
My shout was something along the lines of "LFM TOC10, PST Role/GS/Achieve." Almost no one ever sent me a tell with all the criteria, btw. Everyone gave me either their roll and achieve, their GS and role...just the achieve...silly stuff. Makes it annoying...but that aside.
We were strapped for a healer, and generally everyone (by total chance) was over 5K GS. I didn't cherry pick people this way, but it just so happened that was what our group was. Here comes this 4.2K GS priest asking if he can join. I say yes, and people immediately gave him shit.
We wiped on the first string of bosses in TOC10, and yes...it was the priest's fault. A quick explanation from me and we cleared the entire instance without a hitch from that point forward and got the guy a bunch of gear. Some people left immediately when we wiped, and it's their loss.
Reverse situation happened on a 10VOA. Healer had like 5900+ GS and was shouting at the tanks for sucking the whole time and quit mid-fight.
Gearscore...curse and a blessing.
Fixed.Iadien said:
I use Gearscore a lot. I use it a lot but coincidentally I've never kicked someone from a random or given someone shit about their GS. I use it to help me either decide between two people quickly when I'm filling a group or to help me adjust my play to accommodate someone's gear in a random (ie going easy on dps if the tank/healer isn't very well geared). In this way its a VERY useful tool for me, but like any tool it's only as good as the people who use it properly. Some people do tend to over-blow the effect of their gearscore on potential success a tad but in it's most recent release the mod allows you to see what bosses and experience different people have had which is very useful.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Epix said:
You should take note of when this is successful and when it isn't, you'll probably find it's just over 50% of the time you actually get someone who can find his head from his ass doesn't depend on gearscore at all.
Gearscore has been there forever, I've been using it before the dumb addon came out. It doesn't work. The only way to judge someone based on their gear is if you know all the classes and specs inside and out and can tell if they know their class well with gems and gear, otherwise you're pretty much going into it blind 100% of the time.
We've literally carried people to a great gearscore who are terrible.
you can get a 5,000 gearscore without setting foot in a raid. i guess 5.5k+ combined with an achievement does say "experience in current raids" but they could still be the weak link of their guild.
back to vanilla. knowing the persons group reputation is the best thing. with all the pugs and random people you group with that gets hard.
so, i guess it unfortunately makes sense people keep bumping up the minimum.
back to vanilla. knowing the persons group reputation is the best thing. with all the pugs and random people you group with that gets hard.
so, i guess it unfortunately makes sense people keep bumping up the minimum.
keeblerdrow
Member
I use GearScore Buster. Any time someone inspects any character I play, it reports a GS of my choosing. I prefer either ~6150 or something over 9000.
Yeah, with my current schedule and a character with a GS of 5.1K I don't think I'll ever get to see the Lich King.
Still, I think the Blizzard gods have been kind lately....
My GF had this drop a couple days ago:
And I just got this during a daily.
So I can't complain too much.
Still, I think the Blizzard gods have been kind lately....
My GF had this drop a couple days ago:
And I just got this during a daily.
So I can't complain too much.
Pretty much.Shouta said:
But I love when trade chat has someone saying:
"Well the people that hate gearscore have a really low gearscore."
I just chime in and say: "GearScore sucks... oh wait, I have a GearScore of 5888." :lol
Shuts them up rather fast.
Had to use http://wtfismygearscore.com/ to figure out what it was though. XD
Oh neat: http://wtfismygearscore.com/gearscore.php?n=Ardhavara&s=Undermine&r=US#comment-form
So you're argument against Gearscore being a measure of people's skill is to say it's a measure of people's luck? Seriously? I have 277 gear because I'm luckier than you are? Lets just agree that's its somewhere in between a measure of skill and luck and use the damn tool for what it does do well, which is provide people on the spot quick info on the likely abilities of the player. If you have 20s to pick your last dps for the VoA thats about to end between two people that whispered you, one with 5800 GS and one with a 4800 GS which are you going to choose? Are you going to quiz them about their rotation or the origins of their class? No, you'll make your choice with the information you have and move on.Shouta said:
Shouta
Member
Epix said:
It's either a matter of luck or a matter of being around for a long time. First off, there's a matter of the gear actually dropping and then you actually winning a lot (unless your run is based giving out the gear rather than doing rolls) so there's the luck factor. Eventually it'll drop so then there's the time factor. Have either on your side and you'll eventually get an item (or sometimes not, fucking Banner).
Rather than look at the gear score, I'd look over their talents and their gear at a glance, see if they're gearing the right way if you really want to check. Gear Score tells you nothing of their talent distribution, gems, or enchants, it's better to look over that quickly and spot the bad things than looking blindly at GS.
Well tbh you're sounding a lot like someone who's just not very good. Sure there's a measure of luck between someone with 5960 GS and someone with 5988 GS due to something dropping before something else. But to say that someone has +1000 better gearscore because they've been playing longer and are luckier is completely retarded. I've been playing a year and a half and the best geared paladin on the server. I've been playing neither a long time nor have a been very lucky (no Heroic DV, no PP trinket, ect) but I've been in on all the kills lesser players dont get a chance to do every week. When you say "first off there's a matter of the gear actually dropping...." I wonder if you think top tier gear falls from the sky and hopefully a melee dps player gets hit with some plate dps gear or something. You have to actually be skilled enough to be there in the first place to get the gear to drop. Gearscore isnt a perfect science, I never said it was. I realize there are people walking around with 264 weapons that got into an ICC run and carried and happened to outroll someone. I know it happens, but for every one of those people there are 10 people that legitimately represent their GS making the mod useful for the most part.Shouta said:
Blizzard making more and more better gear accessible be easier and easier means does tend to complicate things but I just use GS to help me make quick judgments when I don't have time to thoroughly research something.
I'm on the side of gearscore is an awful tool only because of how poorly it's misused by the community as yet another arbitrary glass ceiling. Unsure people are prone to gear for gearscore whether an item is an upgrade or not and this is promoted by the community. As I told a friend raging earlier about failures with inflated gear score in some icc raid he was in, I reminded him: "This is why we armory. This is why we always armoried."
arhra
Member
Gearscore is a fucking terrible measure of anything, other than, well, Gearscore (ie, average itemlevel). If you must use an addon to help choose between random pugs, at least use a decent one like Elitist Group, which also shows you their overall gear level, but also includes useful and important information like whether they actually have the right kind of gear (ie, not healers wearing +hit gear, dps in tanking gear, etc), whether they have good enchants/gems/etc, their spec (i don't care if you have a gearscore that's over 9000, I wouldn't want to share a raid with a 71-pt wonder), and how much experience they have running particular dungeons (ie, not just a singular achievement, but looking at their statistics to see how many times they've cleared it, whether they've managed full clears, etc).
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
So yeah I finally purchased a copy of WoW from Blizzards site and it's installing now.
Though a quick question. Should I buy the expansion packs now? Or do they only add something to the game once I get to a certain level (I.E. do they just merely continue the story of WoW?)
Though a quick question. Should I buy the expansion packs now? Or do they only add something to the game once I get to a certain level (I.E. do they just merely continue the story of WoW?)
Shouta
Member
Epix said:
You may not like it but it's the reality of the situation (all MMOs in general, not just WoW). Someone can finish the same exact raids (say VOA25) but the person with better luck and and more time play will have the advantage. I mean really, more time played means more chances for the items to drop which means a higher chance that said person will get the gear eventually. I finish 5 VOA25s but another guy finishes 15 VOA25s because he has more time but he does a significant amount of damage less than I do, who has the chance of getting the gear more? That has no relation to the skill of the player.
I mean, if you want to use it then go for it but it really isn't a good measurement. At best it gives you an idea of the potential a person has but it won't give you an idea of they'll actually do that much. I can tell you that I've beaten folk in parses with a GS 400-500 points higher than mine and I've seen folks with 200-300 points less than me do almost the same overall damage. GS just doesn't factor in the important element, skill.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
When I buy the WoW expansion packs do I get 30 days free from each one I get?
Freyjadour
Member
Gearscore is a ROUGH tool, and ONLY that. I quit during ToC and the few ICC raids I fill in for in my GF's guild I manage to beat out of most of their DPS in 264ish gear.
Where problems come in are:
A) Anyone using it for any heroic other than the IC ones (hell, even FoS). I joined a random Gundrak on my Feral Druid in blues/epics and was immediately kicked. Really not necessary and downright annoying.
B) Using excessive values for old raids.
Honestly though, most people are pretty understanding in this regard. The few who use Gearscore incessantly are usually just out to wave their ePeen around. But all it really takes is a quick inspect. If you've played WoW any decent amount of time (especially raiding), you should have an idea of what classes/specs need the most and can make educated guesses with that information. You're going to end up with bad apples regardless of some arbitrary threshold, and you're a moron if you think otherwise.
I'd like to see Blizzard do away with GS somehow, but only because I don't personally have any use for it.
Nothing personal, but people like you are why I don't like this game anymore (and none of that "you must be bad" business). Personal, you're an ass.
Where problems come in are:
A) Anyone using it for any heroic other than the IC ones (hell, even FoS). I joined a random Gundrak on my Feral Druid in blues/epics and was immediately kicked. Really not necessary and downright annoying.
B) Using excessive values for old raids.
Honestly though, most people are pretty understanding in this regard. The few who use Gearscore incessantly are usually just out to wave their ePeen around. But all it really takes is a quick inspect. If you've played WoW any decent amount of time (especially raiding), you should have an idea of what classes/specs need the most and can make educated guesses with that information. You're going to end up with bad apples regardless of some arbitrary threshold, and you're a moron if you think otherwise.
I'd like to see Blizzard do away with GS somehow, but only because I don't personally have any use for it.
Epix said:
Nothing personal, but people like you are why I don't like this game anymore (and none of that "you must be bad" business). Personal, you're an ass.
Well, unfortunately if you invested some time into reading before you posted your opinion you would have read that I've never voted to kick someone because of their GS or gave someone shit because if their GS. I use it to help me alter the way I PLAY when I'm grouped with a lowed gear tank or healer or w/e. Please take the time to read, it adds credibility to your opinion.Freyjadour said:
Epix said:
But it's true. I completely agree with him. Just before 3.3 I was the best geared rogue on server, bah, the best geared rogue in Poland, with gs of 5.6k or so iirc. After 3.3 hit two weeks and I was already behind. Why you ask? Well, guess. Lucky 10man drops. Lucky 25man drops. And for me? During first two weeks I had seen only two items I could use, and lost roll for one of them.
RNG is a bitch, you can't control it, and just because some idiot is lucky doesn't mean he is better. I farmed Illidan for warglaives for half a fucking year (and that's not even the longest, we killed him pretty late because we were still catching up) and it didn't drop even once. Patch 3.0 comes, random idiots who couldn't get past Teron because of constructs faceroll through BT. They kill Illidan and guess what! Glaives!
I'm not even gonna start talking about trinkets. On my tank alt, whom I rarely played, I wasn't able to get in lots of pugs because I had measly 4.9k gs. Because I knew what I did and wore ilvl200 trinkets, which were much better than other available ones. They didn't care that I had achievment, that I am in one of better guilds on the server. GS or bust!
This is why I HATE, and absolutely despise anyone who thinks gearscore is a good idea in any way.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Also I find this a bit odd. I upgraded to a full account during my 10 day free trial then downloaded the game. But the menu screen says "Wrath of the Lich King" but on my account under "Manage Games" it says I only have "World of Warcraft" (it also gives me the option to upgrade to Burning Crusade).
Does this mean I have Wrath of the Lich King? Or is this just standard amongst all games?
I know it's a stupid question but I'm just making sure.
EDIT - Another VERY n00b question but if I install "Wrath of the Lich King" do I need to install "Burning Crusade"? Or do I need both?
Does this mean I have Wrath of the Lich King? Or is this just standard amongst all games?
I know it's a stupid question but I'm just making sure.
EDIT - Another VERY n00b question but if I install "Wrath of the Lich King" do I need to install "Burning Crusade"? Or do I need both?
HarryDemeanor
Member
So I've probably run at least 15 or 16 runs of Pit of Saron today that had no drops of Garfrost's Two-Ton Hammer. Why must this happen to me!? =(
gottalovetheglove
Member
Everyone has that title screen, you still only have the original game.
arhra
Member
The WotLK dvd will actually install the entire game from scratch (ie, on a blank system you can just install everything from the dvd, rather than installing vanilla, then installing TBC, then installing WotLK). I'd assume it can upgrade a vanilla install for both TBC and WotLK, although i haven't actually tried it.Flying_Phoenix said:
Note that this doesn't mean you can skip buying TBC, you still need the key to upgrade your account. It just makes installing/reinstalling everything less of a pain in the ass (and i've no idea if this applies to the downloadable client install if you buy digitally; i'm guessing the latest version will just install everything, though).
moojito
Member
Acidote said:
The lack of a decent shield from heroics or badges is annoying. I was stuck with the crafted level 200 one for ages, then I managed to sneak my pally tank in the back door of ICC and got the tanking mace and shield on the same run. There really ought to be some place other than the normal mode of an instance few people like for a shield.
God I hate people sometimes.
I'd like to consider myself a fairly well geared Rogue to the point where if Im doing low DPS its because I'm half-assing it.
Get into the random daily, and it's Drak Theron, cool, I just got these two awesome axes last night, I think I'll switch them in and level my axe skill on trash (obviously doing about 500DPS because of it). Priest makes some snide comment of "hey Rogue, you gonna play anytime soon?" I tell him I'm leveling my Axes on the trash, don't worry. We get to the first boss I pull out my daggers and proceed to out DPS the entire group by a solid 1kDPS (4kDPS). Are you happy now Mr. Priest? To which the answer to that is me being kicked from the 5-man.
The hell guys.
I'd like to consider myself a fairly well geared Rogue to the point where if Im doing low DPS its because I'm half-assing it.
Get into the random daily, and it's Drak Theron, cool, I just got these two awesome axes last night, I think I'll switch them in and level my axe skill on trash (obviously doing about 500DPS because of it). Priest makes some snide comment of "hey Rogue, you gonna play anytime soon?" I tell him I'm leveling my Axes on the trash, don't worry. We get to the first boss I pull out my daggers and proceed to out DPS the entire group by a solid 1kDPS (4kDPS). Are you happy now Mr. Priest? To which the answer to that is me being kicked from the 5-man.
The hell guys.
Heroics trash is serious business.
But, i wouldn't try to skill up weapon skills in heroics trash anyway. Heroics are all about killing trash as fast as possible since the bosses are a joke and die in less than 30 seconds. You can't expect 4 pugs to be all nice and go " alright, lvl up your axes skill while slowing down the run. We're totally ok with that". Pugs aren't like that and you should know it. :lol
But, i wouldn't try to skill up weapon skills in heroics trash anyway. Heroics are all about killing trash as fast as possible since the bosses are a joke and die in less than 30 seconds. You can't expect 4 pugs to be all nice and go " alright, lvl up your axes skill while slowing down the run. We're totally ok with that". Pugs aren't like that and you should know it. :lol
Epix said:
well tbh, your gearscore does not reflect your skill as a player at all, you could be an awful retardin for all i know, your gearscore is only a reflection that you make most of your guild's raids and collect a lot of loot either via dkp or loot council, due to your high attendance
talking about skill in a game like world of warcraft is pretty laughable anyways (especially when you play a retardin a faceroll class :lol ), i'm willing to acknowledge that players in cutting edge guilds such as vodka, blood legion, exodus etc. are better than your average player, but the difference between bleeding edge guilds and say a guild stuck on 6/12 hard modes is probably not that high
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Eh...a bit of badness on both people there.Kletian said:
If I were you, I'd at least ask the group if it's cool if you could level up your axes on trash. You're effectively making the run take longer by hardly contributing, so not letting anyone know about it beforehand is kind of a mark on you.
...but I probably wouldn't have reacted so harshly if I was the other person.
Some people just seemingly have no patience or social skills in online gaming. You'd think MMO's would cater to people that are generally more mature than your MW2/KZ2 players...but more often than not I find that it's all business.
WoW is one of those MMOs where it's pretty much a numbers game. What's this guy's DPS? What's this guys HPS? What's their GS? Achievement total? TPS?
All MMOs are about boosting your own capabilities, but WoW is the first one that's really made it so easily discoverable that it's hard not to focus heavily on it.
...I mean there's a freaking weekly quest where you fight a dragon in space, then fly around on space disks to fight space mages while the rest of the team runs around inside magic bubbles, only to eventually mount up on your own dragons to slay the dragon...IN SPACE.
It's like straight out of an episode of Axe Cop...it should be awesome. I hate people that can't find the fun in that.
RubxQub said:
"Because vehicules combat is not fuuuuun."
Those people are the same who leaves Oculus when they get it as their daily. Who cares if vehicules combat is actually only a small part of the instance, (they're mostly use for transport anyway except for the last boss and 1 or 2 drakes near platforms), they will never do Oculus.
I really wish Blizz could do something to fix disconnect issues in Ony 25. My guild asked me to off tank it, I refused because I always end up DCing on the whelps. But they said I can just stick where the elite Guardians spawn and wait there while everyone else downs the whelps. This worked the first time, but a bunch of other people DC'd and we wiped. Then we tried again, and despite being far from the whelps, even I was one of the people who DC'd. I don't have this issue anywhere else not even WG or For The Alliance runs.
I can't imagine what running Ony with 40 people was like during vanilla.
I can't imagine what running Ony with 40 people was like during vanilla.
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
True story, in the day of simpler add-ons I never had issues with Ony back in the day.
First time I did 'er when I came back I froze up the moment it was time for the whelps and started applying AoE to the group. Whole game froze.
Probably because I'm doing all this on a laptop that runs the game well...but not so well that I jack up all the settings or anything.
These days I try to roll with just:
- Recount
- Razer Naga Interface (for my mouse)
- DBM
I could do without recount, but playing as a DPS class, I really need to know that type of stuff. I usually just have it track myself and not the raid, though.
First time I did 'er when I came back I froze up the moment it was time for the whelps and started applying AoE to the group. Whole game froze.
Probably because I'm doing all this on a laptop that runs the game well...but not so well that I jack up all the settings or anything.
These days I try to roll with just:
- Recount
- Razer Naga Interface (for my mouse)
- DBM
I could do without recount, but playing as a DPS class, I really need to know that type of stuff. I usually just have it track myself and not the raid, though.
I don't mind gear score. I do mind people who are emphatic about if you're not at a certain point then you suck.
I've seen people in low gear levels outperform people in higher gear levels, but it is few and far between.
I really don't care though since my Rogue is over 6k GS and @ 3318 per WoW Heroes.
Sadly my alts do not fare as well
I've seen people in low gear levels outperform people in higher gear levels, but it is few and far between.
I really don't care though since my Rogue is over 6k GS and @ 3318 per WoW Heroes.
Sadly my alts do not fare as well
Jin
Member
arhra said:
I'm glad I saw this post today. I just finish building my new PC and was about to install it the long way.
Edit: My guild is still struggling with Rotface 25 man. We can one shot this fatass in 10 man, but 25 is just kicking our ass. The fight goes well until he gets to 25% then there's slime everyone and we wipe. Any ideas?
Hadoken said:
Depending on your download speeds it might be faster to just download the installer and have it do all the work. That is what I have the last few machines and it works great. Having only to download the installer, the curse client and the vent install is super convenient.
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