Support NeoGAF

[ACE 1991]

So i take it now would be a boring time to resubscribe, and it's better just to wait until cataclysm?

 

[mileS]

lets see some Hunter UI shots!

funny looking at the DK ui shots with default action bars and they don't even have the first row filled up. Here I am with my hunter with all 5 filled and I still don't have room for everything.

 

[yacobod]

on the other hand xfering to a high pop server with tons of guilds progressing would be nice. would Mal'Ganis be a bad idea. there's a lot of guilds recruiting there.

if you are horde go to Illidan, it's the realm with highest progression, and very high pop obviously

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Here's my DK UI, although there's nothing really DKcentric about it. I actually use the same one for my hunter as well.

 

[borghe]

ok, so I downloaded recount and compared a basic PVE fire build with a basic PVE frost build...was getting annoyed with frost coming in lower in DPS in dungeons so I figured I'd give the goto DPS build a try..

wtf is up with fire? Is it TOTALLY dependent on crit? as a fire build with technically a higher crit chance I was pulling 500dps bursting up to 600dps (level 66) and with frost and the same gear and my 24/7 elemental I was pulling 600dps and bursting up to 1K dps. furthermore, for leveling I was taking a ton of damage AND burning through a ton of mana meaning I was actually needing to drink and eat while leveling, whereas with frost I haven't conjured food or water without being asked for probably 10+ levels.

If there's an arcane spec anyone wants to toss me for decent leveling and higher dungeon DPS I'd be willing to give it a shot. but like I said, right now at 66 I am averaging around 650dps and bursting over 1K dps.. is this low for that level? decent?

as for UI's, is it weird that I hate like every screen posted the last day or so? Whoever said their screen looks like the back of the box... yup... the only time I've ever used an actual UI mod was on my shaman for totem timers.. otherwise my UI has always been stock and I've never felt the need for more... oh, and whatever raid/boss mod used to be the cats meow back in the MC/BWL days. Was it RaidAssist?

 

[Retro]

as for UI's, is it weird that I hate like every screen posted the last day or so? Whoever said their screen looks like the back of the box... yup... the only time I've ever used an actual UI mod was on my shaman for totem timers.. otherwise my UI has always been stock and I've never felt the need for more... oh, and whatever raid/boss mod used to be the cats meow back in the MC/BWL days. Was it RaidAssist?

Nah, you're not weird. I feel the same way too. I only use Titanpanel (I like having one place to keep essential info like Bags, Durability, Gold, Ammo), Omen, DBM, Gatherer (usually turned off) and CTMod to throw a few extra action bars for quality of life. Otherwise, I ride the default UI completely...

I hate the look of most UI Mods, they convert everything to really boring shapes. The only UI element anyone has shown off that appeals to me is that weird map effect in Sax Russel's DK screen, and that's just because it looks cool.

 

[FLEABttn]

oh, and whatever raid/boss mod used to be the cats meow back in the MC/BWL days. Was it RaidAssist?

CTRaidAsissit was the main one. Though there were a couple Naxx specific ones iirc that were better than CTRaid.

 

[arhra]

as for UI's, is it weird that I hate like every screen posted the last day or so? Whoever said their screen looks like the back of the box... yup... the only time I've ever used an actual UI mod was on my shaman for totem timers.. otherwise my UI has always been stock and I've never felt the need for more... oh, and whatever raid/boss mod used to be the cats meow back in the MC/BWL days. Was it RaidAssist?

If they'd just let you move UI elements, and maybe do a few other customisations (buff filtering, etc) the base UI would be ok (the raid frames would still be terrible, but it'd be decent enough to dps with).

As it is though, you've got your unitframes (energy/mana/rage/runes, target health, target cast bar, target debuffs, etc) in the top-left, buffs (various procs or short-term buffs you need to watch for, etc) in the top right, then action bars (with cooldowns) at the bottom.

To play most classes properly, you need to be constantly checking ALL of those places, which is just a pain in the ass with the default UI. And any DoT/debuff-heavy class (warlocks, shadow priests, feral druids, etc) is basically impossible to play to their full potential without some kind of addon to help track your stuff.

 

[borghe]

heh, I am playing on a 19" monitor.. it's not hard at all for me to keep track of all of those places

though I definitely understand what you are saying about DOT/debuff classes. my recent mains have been tank, shaman and mage so I haven't had to worry about that.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

What I hope they do in Cataclysm beta is implement an option for users to open up another set of action bar slots on the UI.

The option is to remove this and then replace it with an action bar.

It would make me a very happy camper.

 

[Stuggernaut]

wtf is up with fire? Is it TOTALLY dependent on crit? as a fire build with technically a higher crit chance I was pulling 500dps bursting up to 600dps (level 66) and with frost and the same gear and my 24/7 elemental I was pulling 600dps and bursting up to 1K dps. furthermore, for leveling I was taking a ton of damage AND burning through a ton of mana meaning I was actually needing to drink and eat while leveling, whereas with frost I haven't conjured food or water without being asked for probably 10+ levels.

If there's an arcane spec anyone wants to toss me for decent leveling and higher dungeon DPS I'd be willing to give it a shot. but like I said, right now at 66 I am averaging around 650dps and bursting over 1K dps.. is this low for that level? decent?

Frost = Leveling King...so just stay frost.

Once you hit 80 you can go fire or arcane depoending on which one you like more. I have been fire/frost for years, and have never liked the playstyle of arcane. I still use frost at 80 for solo farming and some pvp, but my bread and butter is fire.

Oh, and yes, fire spec loves crit like a fat kid loves cookies. So pile it on

When you have instant cast pyros every 2 seconds you'll love it too. As long as you have the mana pool to support it ;P

 

[Angry Grimace]

ok, so I downloaded recount and compared a basic PVE fire build with a basic PVE frost build...was getting annoyed with frost coming in lower in DPS in dungeons so I figured I'd give the goto DPS build a try..

wtf is up with fire? Is it TOTALLY dependent on crit? as a fire build with technically a higher crit chance I was pulling 500dps bursting up to 600dps (level 66) and with frost and the same gear and my 24/7 elemental I was pulling 600dps and bursting up to 1K dps. furthermore, for leveling I was taking a ton of damage AND burning through a ton of mana meaning I was actually needing to drink and eat while leveling, whereas with frost I haven't conjured food or water without being asked for probably 10+ levels.

If there's an arcane spec anyone wants to toss me for decent leveling and higher dungeon DPS I'd be willing to give it a shot. but like I said, right now at 66 I am averaging around 650dps and bursting over 1K dps.. is this low for that level? decent?

I was leveling my mage around that zone about a week ago, and up to 78 now.

You cannot effectively level fire at that level. The problem is that you won't have enough mana to cast the number of spells Fire really requires and Living Bomb rarely lasts long enough to be worth it (it's relatively useless in soloing as well since the DoT isn't strong and the bomb won't go off until you're already fleeing, which isn't ideal.)

600 dps is not abnormal or even low for your level. However, mages can spike really high compared to most other classes around that level and you could be doing more.

You can stick with frost, but at level 66 you also have the option of speccing Arcane. You now have Arcane Blast and enough talent points to get all the relevant points into Missile Barrage, Arcane Barrage, etc. Arcane is less mind numbing than Frost, and instead of bursting to 1000 dps, it tends to stick around 1000-1300 dps all the time. Give it a try. Not though, that Arcane as a leveling spec is significantly less "survivable" than Frost. You take more damage in general and enemies will get to you much faster. I didn't have a problem with this because Arcane Blast crits for 5000 damage even at level 66, which meant I could nuke things before they got to me pretty easily.

While at level 80 raids, you stack Arcane Blast to 4 and clear the debuff with Arcane Missiles on a Missile Barrage proc, in order to conserve mana in leveling dungeons, I find it much easier mana-wise to use Missile Barrage procs as soon as they proc.

At level 75, you can switch to fire much easier because you get Frostfire Bolt. FFB spec is largely identical to full fire except you spec into Frost talents and Icy Veins instead of sub-speccing Arcane for Torment the Weak, and you use FFB instead of Fireballs. I'm telling you, multi-dotting Living Bombs is so much fun it should be criminal, not to mention the fact it procs those insta-pyros like 90% of the time (sometimes like 3 times in a row!)

 

[Rapstah]

Apparently, according to lore, Deathwing is supposed to be completely immune to Fire spells and almost completely immune to Frost/Ice/Water spells. I wonder if Blizzard will actually work that into the NPC.

 

[firex]

It'll be like classic WoW where mages and warlocks had to go with sub-optimal dps specs until AQ40, because everything was immune to fire.

 

[Tamanon]

Apparently, according to lore, Deathwing is supposed to be completely immune to Fire spells and almost completely immune to Frost/Ice/Water spells. I wonder if Blizzard will actually work that into the NPC.

No.

 

[CassSept]

I think they'd stopped doing that after Al'ar. Now bosses have no immunities, elementals and mechanicals no longer are immune to bleeds etc. Lore is lore, but there is no chance that they will make him immune to half of magic schools.

 

[profit]

Apparently, according to lore, Deathwing is supposed to be completely immune to Fire spells and almost completely immune to Frost/Ice/Water spells. I wonder if Blizzard will actually work that into the NPC.

Well they could implement a scripted event in his fight with another major lore character that uses a spell that doesn't make him immune anymore or something like that. It is Blizzards lore and they can do whatever they want with it.

 

[Rapstah]

Well they could implement a scripted event in his fight with another major lore character that uses a spell that doesn't make him immune anymore or something like that. It is Blizzards lore and they can do whatever they want with it.

"Fire and water immunity were merely setbacks!"

 

[Angry Grimace]

Apparently, according to lore, Deathwing is supposed to be completely immune to Fire spells and almost completely immune to Frost/Ice/Water spells. I wonder if Blizzard will actually work that into the NPC.

They used to do this; the only remnant of that philosophy you'll see in game is Sapphiron, who still has a very high Frost resist value (Sapphiron 40 was immune to Frost damage).

Boss-level mobs no longer have dynamic resist values and have nothing but the static +3 level resist value. Notice that Sindragosa has no Frost resist, despite being a "superior" version of Sapphiron.

Honestly, elemental damage type is an archaic concept that really has no relevance to the PvE game, and in PvP has no real value beyond 130, since that's the highest you'll ever get since you can't really get resist values on gear (and it won't ever come unless Blizzard decides to allow gemming resist values).

 

[JesseZao]

It'll be like classic WoW where mages and warlocks had to go with sub-optimal dps specs until AQ40, because everything was immune to fire.

Hmm, I was an SM/Ruin Lock (shadow), was that not what most vanilla locks used?

 

[Alex]

SM/Ruin was easily the top DPS spec, but it had massive threat problems for awhile there though. Especially on Emerald Dragons and some things in BWL/AQ40. Still if you could manage yourself it was the way to go.

I did Demonology for a bit in Naxx (classic), held up pretty well, less threat, still solid damage, of course no matter what you did in Naxx you were still fucked as a Warlock back then.

Destruction was never really any good back then other than a niche in PvP. It just didnt have the scaling.

 

[firex]

I did a destruction build that was awesome at dps and way more fun than any of the terrible MD builds or SM/Ruin, but it was useless for MC and BWL because of all the fire immune crap.

 

[Lesath]

Hmm, I was an SM/Ruin Lock (shadow), was that not what most vanilla locks used?

7/21/21+2 was the top DPS spec, but required you to forgo your imp for a sacrificed succubus.

SM/Ruin did lower DPS, but allowed you to keep your imp out.

MD/Ruin went down the tree for the threat reduction in Master Demonologist, because some Warlocks were pumping out too much threat. The caveat was, it was also the lowest of the three viable DPS specs, so you're getting threat reduction in a tree that isn't too powerful.

I'm not quite sure as to how the "awesome" DPS spec would have worked, because Incinerate was only introduced to Warlocks in BC, so the only other nukes available were Searing Pain, which had a high threat component and a poor spell coefficient, or Soul Fire, which had a long cast time and shard requirement.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Warlock sounds terrible.

 

[sykoex]

Apparently, according to lore, Deathwing is supposed to be completely immune to Fire spells and almost completely immune to Frost/Ice/Water spells. I wonder if Blizzard will actually work that into the NPC.

Weird issues like that can be fun ways to help them add complexity to a fight. Like I could see them having adds in the fight that need to be downed ASAP to give elemental magic users something to do, or have some part of the fight that involves making Deathwing vulnerable to different types of magic.

 

[firex]

7/21/21+2 was the top DPS spec, but required you to forgo your imp for a sacrificed succubus.

SM/Ruin did lower DPS, but allowed you to keep your imp out.

MD/Ruin went down the tree for the threat reduction in Master Demonologist, because some Warlocks were pumping out too much threat. The caveat was, it was also the lowest of the three viable DPS specs, so you're getting threat reduction in a tree that isn't too powerful.

I'm not quite sure as to how the "awesome" DPS spec would have worked, because Incinerate was only introduced to Warlocks in BC, so the only other nukes available were Searing Pain, which had a high threat component and a poor spell coefficient, or Soul Fire, which had a long cast time and shard requirement.

It was basically forgoing MD because who needed it with 8/8 t2, and using CoE and an imp and a rotation that wasn't sleep inducing like all the shadowbolt spam rotations. It just required timing conflag so it would hit right after a tick of immolate, then reapplying immolate, and then going back to shadowbolts until conflag was up. But at least it involved more than one button once you had everything set up.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Weird issues like that can be fun ways to help them add complexity to a fight. Like I could see them having adds in the fight that need to be downed ASAP to give elemental magic users something to do, or have some part of the fight that involves making Deathwing vulnerable to different types of magic.

It was extremely unpopular in vanilla, and if X spec was not viable for any reason, you'd just respec or bring someone else.

i.e. if Deathwing was immune to Fire and Frost, all your mages would be Arcane.

 

[JesseZao]

Weird issues like that can be fun ways to help them add complexity to a fight. Like I could see them having adds in the fight that need to be downed ASAP to give elemental magic users something to do, or have some part of the fight that involves making Deathwing vulnerable to different types of magic.

I don't think it should be a problem since Arcane does good dps. In fact, I wish that they would tune encounters more around everyone having dual-spec. They could make certain encounters work best for 2/3 specs so some people would need to switch out of the unfavored one. It could be more about the mechanics and using the right spells instead of just mindlessly smashing your rotation for every fight where your only variety may be moving out of fire or switching to an add.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't think it should be a problem since Arcane does good dps. In fact, I wish that they would tune encounters more around everyone having dual-spec. They could make certain encounters work best for 2/3 specs so some people would need to switch out of the unfavored one. It could be more about the mechanics and using the right spells instead of just mindlessly smashing your rotation for every fight where your only variety may be moving out of fire or switching to an add.

The overall design philosophy hasn't been leaning towards that for years now. Their stated goal is that you play the spec you find fun, not what the encounter demands you do.

It won't ever happen. Dual Spec is a quality of life thing, not something Blizzard is going to balance things around.

 

[Lesath]

It was basically forgoing MD because who needed it with 8/8 t2, and using CoE and an imp and a rotation that wasn't sleep inducing like all the shadowbolt spam rotations. It just required timing conflag so it would hit right after a tick of immolate, then reapplying immolate, and then going back to shadowbolts until conflag was up. But at least it involved more than one button once you had everything set up.

That would make sense, then; I had forgotten about Conflag.

 

[JesseZao]

The overall design philosophy hasn't been leaning towards that for years now. Their stated goal is that you play the spec you find fun, not what the encounter demands you do.

It won't ever happen. Dual Spec is a quality of life thing, not something Blizzard is going to balance things around.

Well then I don't see why we need dps checks or gear checks if we all just want to pick whatever talents we want and expect to "win" the game. Blizzard saying "bring the player, not the class / play what's fun" and me wanting "each fight to be different and require different tactics" doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. [edit: Basically I would be okay with certain specs being optimal and others being sub-optimal by design for different encounters. It wouldn't matter to hardcore raiders, and once casuals got there they'd either be carried or be overgeared anyway because they'd be wearing better badge gear.]

I think they should lower the cost of dual-spec or have some epic questline to unlock it so more people would get it.

 

[Acidote]

Warlock sounds terrible.

You should've played it on release. It was the fucking greatest horrible mess there's ever been in WoW imho :lol

Then it got updated. And it got Drakedog too :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

Well then I don't see why we need dps checks or gear checks if we all just want to pick whatever talents we want and expect to "win" the game. Blizzard saying "bring the player, not the class / play what's fun" and me wanting "each fight to be different and require different tactics" doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. [edit: Basically I would be okay with certain specs being optimal and others being sub-optimal by design for different encounters. It wouldn't matter to hardcore raiders, and once casuals got there they'd either be carried or be overgeared anyway because they'd be wearing better badge gear.]

I think they should lower the cost of dual-spec or have some epic questline to unlock it so more people would get it.

Sunwell Plateau was like that. Hardcore raids just didn't bring players of the wrong class.

 

[JesseZao]

Sunwell Plateau was like that. Hardcore raids just didn't bring players of the wrong class.

And casuals happily farmed edit: bop (duh) Epics there

 

[firex]

That would make sense, then; I had forgotten about Conflag.

It was very very spike-ish, but with that set bonus the threat wasn't a big issue, so it became a much easier way to do dps over what was (for my guild, possibly because of how crappy warlocks were in classic WoW) the standard MD/Ruin build most people used.

But the demonic sacrifice/ruin build was definitely superior dps. Just that this destruction build was better than MD/Ruin and at least on par with SM/Ruin, but actually easier to manage in terms of threat thanks to t2's 8 piece bonus.

 

[Angry Grimace]

And casuals happily farmed BoE Epics there

There aren't any BoE epics in Sunwell Plateau.

 

[J-Rzez]

There aren't any BoE epics in Sunwell Plateau.

I remember people farming the engineering plans (which created bops, some others boe) and the like though, maybe that's what they meant? There were other trash drops too that were bop no?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I remember people farming the engineering plans (which created bops, some others boe) and the like though, maybe that's what they meant? There were other trash drops too that were bop no?

Some of the plans created BoE items, but all of the plans were BoP.

 

[Xabora]

Here be mine.


1920x1080 Full Image


1920x1080 Full Image

 

[Bisnic]

Gotta love when you come across some weird glitch like this guy walking around Dalaran, stuck in a falling animation for whatever reason. It was creepy to see him moving around in this position. :lol

 

[Tamanon]

I thought the Sunwell plans were BOE, but they made BOP items.

 

[firex]

I thought the Sunwell plans were BOE, but they made BOP items.

yeah, I remember some server laming out over a mage they picked up for trash farming learning the tailoring robe, and making it. It was funny just because of how pathetic everyone acted in the situation.

 

[Entropia]

yeah, I remember some server laming out over a mage they picked up for trash farming learning the tailoring robe, and making it. It was funny just because of how pathetic everyone acted in the situation.

:lol :lol That vent recording is hilarious

 

[Angry Grimace]

yeah, I remember some server laming out over a mage they picked up for trash farming learning the tailoring robe, and making it. It was funny just because of how pathetic everyone acted in the situation.

What was the problem?

 

[dave is ok]

No Warlocks were fire back in MC/BWL, like at all

 

[CassSept]

Each of crafting professions (tailoring, lw, bs, jc) had patterns of two kinds:
- BoP pattern for BoE item (gloves/rings for jc)
- BoE pattern for BoP item (chests/necks for jc)
But the trashes dropped some of the endgame items (for example thrown or polearm) and with good raid setup they were easily farmable so people just kept on doing it.
Plus, they dropped these damned sunmotes.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Each of crafting professions (tailoring, lw, bs, jc) had patterns of two kinds:
- BoP pattern for BoE item (gloves/rings for jc)
- BoE pattern for BoP item (chests/necks for jc)
But the trashes dropped some of the endgame items (for example thrown or polearm) and with good raid setup they were easily farmable so people just kept on doing it.
Plus, they dropped these damned sunmotes.

I like how all the patterns are BoE for BoE items now. :lol

Too bad Primordial Saronite costs 1000+ gold each, and the better stuff needs 8 of them.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

What was the problem?

I remember it was a Sunwell guild that picked up a few people to fill their raid. Some Mage ninja'd the pattern and she proceeded to cry on Vent after the rest of the raid started to call her out on it. I'll look for the link, should be on YouTube somewhere.

Just found the Youtube link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVqyzHfe50

Hilarity ensues.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I remember it was a Sunwell guild that picked up a few people to fill their raid. Some Mage ninja'd the pattern and she proceeded to cry on Vent after the rest of the raid started to call her out on it. I'll look for the link, should be on YouTube somewhere.

Just found the Youtube link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVqyzHfe50

Hilarity ensues.

I'll take your word for it...10 minutes. :lol

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Looks like the entire thing is on YouTube as well. Only just a snippet of a 20 minute bitchfest. :lol

If anyone wants to listen to the ENTIRE thing from beginning to end... well... here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_23ENznBgU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUxFZoVxWzE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufNrFbulCs&feature=related