davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i want 50 slots for hunters!
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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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notworksafe
Member
Some of these are beyond OP. Felguard for Demo Locks! Avenger's Shield for Prot Paladin!
EDIT: Also Holy Paladin gets Shock! All my baseline are belong to Masteries.
EDIT: Also Holy Paladin gets Shock! All my baseline are belong to Masteries.
ShallNoiseUpon
Member
notworksafe said:
You stay up all night coming up with that one?
notworksafe
Member
No, I was just "Shocked".
Oni Link 666
Member
How Bestial Wrath isn't THE defining BM hunter spell is beyond me.
Not sure how final this is, but here's what MMO-Champ is showing for the new trees;
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?#
(If link fails, try this one and just pick whichever class you want)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?#
(If link fails, try this one and just pick whichever class you want)
Can I take this opportunity to state how much I hate the idea behind Divine Sacrifice? I get that it's supposed to be a group-wide damage reducer, and yay for all of that... but it's always struck me as something you need to pop only when the healer is ready for the spike, can be canceled prematurely, and is far too 'math-y'.
Why not just make it a flat 30% damage reduction instead of having the entire re-direct mechanic? I seem to recall that's how it originally worked. As it exists now, I don't even waste points on it because I know I'd never use it. I don't trust pug healers to keep me above 20% with the way damage spikes, and there's rarely a situation where the entire group needs that kind of damage reduction.... and besides, most puggers don't deserve that kind of sacrifice anyways :lol.
That said, the Paladin trees are no where near done so maybe it's getting an overhaul soon.
Why not just make it a flat 30% damage reduction instead of having the entire re-direct mechanic? I seem to recall that's how it originally worked. As it exists now, I don't even waste points on it because I know I'd never use it. I don't trust pug healers to keep me above 20% with the way damage spikes, and there's rarely a situation where the entire group needs that kind of damage reduction.... and besides, most puggers don't deserve that kind of sacrifice anyways :lol.
That said, the Paladin trees are no where near done so maybe it's getting an overhaul soon.
Yoshichan said:Good luck in the next patch Blizzard!It's gonna be one helluva balance ride!
After looking at a couple class's trees, I have to say to them good luck on that as well. Both in PVP and PVE. The trees are interesting, but I don't see them "getting rid of the cookie cutter" builds. There will still be builds that trump others no doubt.
PVP is going to be a MESS. I wish I was in this beta like in Wrath, watching how horrible imbalanced things were in there and how they'd tune things left and right.
Door2Dawn said:
I was more surprised at Improved Exorcism. If it keeps the same cast time it has now (1.5 seconds), that makes it an instant cast... so Prot will have instant exorcism and Ret will have it when Art of War procs.
Still very early and they've said Paladin trees are still very rough, but what the fuck? Are they just slapping whatever they have lying around into the trees?
"We need something for Prot to push"
"Um... Exorcism?"
"Sure, why not"
:lol
J-Rzez said:
I agree. It is very very very clear right now which talents are mandatory and which ones are fucking awful. The only thing that's changed is that you have less talents to deal with and less points to spend, otherwise there's still not much 'choice' here. Very early, of course, but for all of the hype and aggrandizing coming from Blizzard, I was expecting more.
Hope this is still a very very very rough concept. The two things I am looking forward to in Cata are the class redesigns and zone revamps. So far, I am underwhelmed by the first and pretty sure I can experience the later in less than 3 months...
Yeah I'm only seeing a few 'important choices' in the trees I've looked at. Most talents are must gets, or must skips.J-Rzez said:
That being said this is the first release of the rework and I haven't played the beta so I guess I'll have to wait and see.
On your second point, I'm sure PvP will be a horrible mess for quite awhile :lol
Alex
Member
Does anyone know if Evangelism on Discipline is 3% mana per stack, or just healing? That's actually kind of appealing even to me who isn't big on healers doing damage.
New trees are weirding me out! That's just so odd to look at :lol They are so much better though, and so much more cool, new stuff. Really neat.
New trees are weirding me out! That's just so odd to look at :lol They are so much better though, and so much more cool, new stuff. Really neat.
Retro said:
That's why you get divine guardian, then cancel the debuff and the raid-wide damage reducement remains. A very nice ability imo.
edit: which is being removed in Cata. Bastards.
double edit: Prot Paladin tree is so weird. 30+ sec consecration, instant exorcism, changed infinite divine plea (which is nice tbf), Holy Shield either has a terribly worded tooltip or seems clunky compared to the other tanks crit immunity...
They're definitely going for a different ST/AoE threat rotation though with Imp. Crusader Strike which is cool. Fights like Saurfang and the slime abomination in ICC won't have to be careful with Consecrate and HotR.
Hmm
No Moonkin form talent on mmo-champ's version of the druid tree, and they have Starsurge (which is listed as a talent) listed as a 'granted at level 10' ability.
Probably just an error, yeah. I found GC's post where he dismissed Moonkin and Shadowform at level 10.
No Moonkin form talent on mmo-champ's version of the druid tree, and they have Starsurge (which is listed as a talent) listed as a 'granted at level 10' ability.
I'm only bringing this up because maybe it means druids will get Moonkin form at level 10? The would be sort of silly, heh. Probably just some sort of error with the tree or mmo-champion's posting of it.mmo-champion said:
Probably just an error, yeah. I found GC's post where he dismissed Moonkin and Shadowform at level 10.
Ghostcrawler said:We're not ready to announce them all yet, but I will give you a hint that you're 0 for 4 with the ones you mentioned.
Going through the trees there are a few "rough" spots here and there. Particularly Demonology, kitty Feral and Arcane.
There are also still a number of worthless talents. For the love of God get rid of crap like Butchery, Pathfinding and Improved Health Funnel.
When Ghost Crawler said "Everyone here worked really hard to get the whole package to a relatively playable and polished state. In essence we're not announcing a future plan -- we're telling you how the game works today. It's all done." I was expecting more.
I dont see these talent trees as playable or polished. Theres obviously quite a ways to go but this feels like a "bait and switch".
There are also still a number of worthless talents. For the love of God get rid of crap like Butchery, Pathfinding and Improved Health Funnel.
When Ghost Crawler said "Everyone here worked really hard to get the whole package to a relatively playable and polished state. In essence we're not announcing a future plan -- we're telling you how the game works today. It's all done." I was expecting more.
I dont see these talent trees as playable or polished. Theres obviously quite a ways to go but this feels like a "bait and switch".
Outdoor Miner
Member
New Demonology tree is terrible. You are forced to take talents for pets you will never use!
A 0/10/31 spec looks to be the most fun for Locks IMO.
A 0/10/31 spec looks to be the most fun for Locks IMO.
Mr Nash said:Speaking of bastard-esque ways to get people in world pvp, is it still possible to play a rogue, and stunlock someone underwater till they suffocate, so they die and take the armor damage penalty?
Back in the oooooooooooooooold days, vanilla vanilla.
This tauren warrior maybe, think it was a warrior, was about to gank me, she was lvl skull and I was a lock engineer, I had just rezed from a previous ganking on the road to BB and she unmounted, clearly to attack! I had my succi out and seduced her, then used my Gnomish Death Ray on her >.< took her down to like 1% hp, and I killed her.
She chased me down and found me in bootybay, and she got me in the water, I was running away cause I knew I didnt stand a chance, but I had under water breathing on, back before they buffed how long you could breathe underwater, went down as far as I could out beyond the bay, then feared her >.< And she died running out of breath ^_^
Nowadays you cant really run out of breath that easily, and with diminishing returns the stuns lose effectiveness quicklyish.
Miss the old world pvp >.> lvling back when the game came out was some fun stuff >.<!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
DK trees have a couple of suspect things, notably; you are forced to take Hungering Cold to get Howling Blast, despite Hungering Cold being just as useless as it was in WLK.Outdoor Miner said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think it's an error; that makes no sense at all because Crusader Strike is a shitty talent to use for Prot Paladins because Prot only generates bonus threat on Holy Damage; Crusader Strike does pure weapon damage; you wouldn't even use CS as Prot. even if you had it.Weenerz said:
There's a few other fucked up things; i.e. Imp. Scorch can only be raised to 66% chance to apply Imp. Scorch, you are required pointlessly to get Dragon's Breath (which is entirely useless outside PvP) to get Living Bomb, and you are required to put one point into a random PvP talent to get to tier 3 of the fire talents because there aren't any DPS talents to take.
As I had feared, they obviously thought up this talent redesign only a couple of weeks ago. There's not enough talents for them to have this many errors :lol In all seriousness, It's actually pretty disappointing how awful and rough these trees are right now given the rhetoric Blizzard was putting out about how well thought out this scheme was.
Duki said:
Well they are very rough, so it's not much to look at now.
The lock trees are funny though, affliction basically has no options, they can pretty much take everything.
I like that they want to trim the fat, but I think it would be more interesting to have every row be four across filled with different and interesting talents to really specialize your role. (I suppose they don't want the balancing headaches, but they better have more than one talent empty after you hit 31 pts in a tree.)
I think MM is stillborn for PvE dps. There are to many places a MM hunter needs to pick non dps talents. Its not completely horrible, but when compared to BM and SV which simply doesn't have ENOUGH points to even get all of the dps talents within reach. Its crazy what BM is going to do, Im calling that now. If the pet scaling goes in, and these trees remain, 25 man raiding BM hunters that can count on another source of the 3% dps talent will skip ferocious inspiration and leech it, and clean freaking house.
BM will have such a stupid amount of focus to play with its insane. The way that Frenzy, Kill Command, Cobra Strikes, Invigoration, Sic'Em combined with Go for the throat all SYNERGIZE and just boost one another is completely ridiculous. All of that focus pouring in to the Hunter and the Pet will keep Frenzy uptime around 90% and keep Focus fire uptime around 40+%, toss in the 15% "may as well be passive" ranged haste from Improved steady shot (assuming you choose to get sic'em and iss over Improved Tracking) and the Hunter gets even more focus per second seeing as ISS is the only self haste buff we have currently in beta that increases the focus regen. All the other haste procs and abilities just increase range attack speed only.
Mix in 50% focus cost skills for the hunter during the Bestial Wrath uptime and a BM hunter should be turreting arcane shots damn near the full duration of any boss fight, except to hit focus fire, and keep ISS up.
BM will have such a stupid amount of focus to play with its insane. The way that Frenzy, Kill Command, Cobra Strikes, Invigoration, Sic'Em combined with Go for the throat all SYNERGIZE and just boost one another is completely ridiculous. All of that focus pouring in to the Hunter and the Pet will keep Frenzy uptime around 90% and keep Focus fire uptime around 40+%, toss in the 15% "may as well be passive" ranged haste from Improved steady shot (assuming you choose to get sic'em and iss over Improved Tracking) and the Hunter gets even more focus per second seeing as ISS is the only self haste buff we have currently in beta that increases the focus regen. All the other haste procs and abilities just increase range attack speed only.
Mix in 50% focus cost skills for the hunter during the Bestial Wrath uptime and a BM hunter should be turreting arcane shots damn near the full duration of any boss fight, except to hit focus fire, and keep ISS up.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The reason people are pissed off is because they claimed they were done and they had spent months on them when they clearly spent like 2 weeks.JesseZao said:
:lolPuncture said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My guess is it was when GC said:Weenerz said:
Ghostcrawler said:
As for mages:
It seemed for a second like FFB would be good again with TTW and Shatter/Frostbite all accessible under a primarily fire build. Except then I remember that Shatter doesn't work without FoF and FoF no longer triggers shatter.
JesseZao said:
Either you read my post elsewhere or we think alike. I suggested the same thing.
But man, the dumbing down of this game needs to stop. There's going to be the cookie cutter spec, except this time Blizzard is just handing it to you since it's pretty obvious. They might as well just do pre-mades. There's zero evidence of their "trim the fat, give you fun options then!" statement so far. Hopefully, not all the talents are implemented yet, but, considering GC made it sound like "This is it, no going back, you either like it or not", I'm not holding my breath.
Angry Grimace said:
Dont laugh, My guild is doing it. We have 32 active raiders right now in this slouch. This is primarily because like 75% of the members are all friends family and work together, Im one of the very few out of state members. Theres not even enough room in 25's signups are still a race even these days late in the expansion, so it was agreed to do a dedicated 25 in cata raiding. The idea of 3 10's or a 25 and a 10 were kicked around, but a few cancels and we would have to call one of them. It will work better for us to continue as is. People can take nights off whenever they want to and we will still progress and have people to fill all of the spots.
But in any case, the mode of the encounter isn't important in that example. Even if there is just one other person in the raid bringing the 3% damage buff. A ret pally and an Arcane mage both provide that.
notworksafe
Member
Looks to me like they are in a "relatively playable" state. I don't see the word "final" in that statement at all. There will be plenty of changes made. Blizzard has said they haven't worked out everything on every class. I think he just meant that the idea of 41 point trees isn't something they are changing, not what every point does. Blizzard betas get pretty crazy with the changes, so don't expect a lot of these to be final.Angry Grimace said:
Son of Godzilla
Banned
These changes are impressive. They are an utter mess of course, but impressive. Hopefully they continue to drastically overhaul everything and it's mother so that the really bogus shite is gone for good.
Also I would expect if things stay the same that secondary talent trees would only cost 3 points to climb levels instead of 5, letting people go 31/10 and have it mean something.
Also I would expect if things stay the same that secondary talent trees would only cost 3 points to climb levels instead of 5, letting people go 31/10 and have it mean something.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Not being final isn't the point I'm making. It's more that these trees don't look like they have the alleged "months" of work in them; this looks like a few hours worth of work once they figured out it was going to be too much work to balance 76 talent points in the trees and still make stuff competitive.notworksafe said:
What I'm getting at is that I don't actually believe them when they claim they were working on this several months ago. I think they thought this up a few weeks ago.
Work for months, a lot of choices? Eh.
For rogues, assasination tree is too obvious for it to be a result of months of work. 35/3/3. There are only two fillers points at the very beginning and after that it's completely straightforward.
Combat is probably 7/31/3, there are more filler points available, but still, it's not even close to what has been promised for the class.
And for christ's sake, why give combat Blade Flurry as a baseline ability if you're nerfing it so much :x
For rogues, assasination tree is too obvious for it to be a result of months of work. 35/3/3. There are only two fillers points at the very beginning and after that it's completely straightforward.
Combat is probably 7/31/3, there are more filler points available, but still, it's not even close to what has been promised for the class.
And for christ's sake, why give combat Blade Flurry as a baseline ability if you're nerfing it so much :x
Retro said:
In raids, even in quite serious situations (Festergut's exhale, for instance, when something's gone wrong - or we're doing the achievement - and people don't reliably have a full set of inoculates), I use divine sacrifice, without dying, without shielding - even if I'm currently not the tank (therefore not the healer's focus)
The damage intake sounds an awful lot worse than it is. I don't think it's ever killed me since the most recent revision. It's an awesome spell, one of the most useful in my arsenal.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
I like how survival hunter manages to have 51 friggin points in it. A full third of the tree is useless pvp crap (emphasis on the useless, not the pvp) and the spec doesn't even have aimed shot anymore.
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