Would you be happy with a new mainline Final Fantasy release every 2 years, if it meant PS2-era graphics?

Fast FF dev cycle at the expense of graphics?

  • No way, I need dem graphics. Looking forward to FF16 as a launch title for PS6 in 2028

    Votes: 46 56.8%

  • Yes way, it would be sweet to be replaying FF16 through FF20 right now + getting fast new releases

    Votes: 35 43.2%
  • Total voters
    81
mango drank

mango drank

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I'm thinking back to my favorite era of Final Fantasy releases: late 90s to early 2000s, before dev times exploded. I looked through the original release dates for FF7 through FF11, and marveled at the fact that Square had managed to release them an average of like ~1.5 years apart back then (mostly by alternating dev teams). What if SE had kept up that general pace since then, releasing new mainline FFs every 2 years or so, and continuing that way into the future? We'd probably be on FF20+ by now. The catch is, to help speed up dev times, the graphics would be at the level of the FF10 and FF12 remasters. (In reality, because of better creative tools these days, they'd actually look a lot better, so hey, bonus.) Would you be happy with that kind of fast release cycle + visual quality tradeoff?

I think that kind of fast release cycle was good for their creativity back then, helped them iterate fast and move onto the next one. I'd love to be in an alternate universe where new FFs like 7-12 had kept on getting regular releases. (And where Nomura hadn't gone insane.)
 
Final Fantasy at its best is a franchise that consistently pushes the genre and games as a whole forward technically.

I, IV, VI, VII, X and 7R are all examples of this. To just release a bunch of technically inferior games in a row would basically turn FF into something blander like the Tales series or Dragon Quest franchise.
 
Is it possible to have PS2 graphics these days? Even pixel art at 1080p looks super clean and good looking.

I am playing bravely default right now. Definitely games like these would be most welcome.
 
It was a great time back then. FF3 1990 FF4 1991 FF5 1992 was back to back greatness. It would be nice to have similar to that or just FF releases from 1990s in general again because yes the Playstation and PS2 games came fairly frequently until the wait for FF12 started a long trend. Before that I recall the longest wait was FF6 to FF7 but initially I was not paying attention to FF7, I got a Playstation when I found out Dragon Quest 7 was coming to it.

I think maybe 2 years is decent enough but should be much better than PS2 graphics. The difference is Famicom and Super Famicom FF games just did not take as long to make everything as the level of detail they want these days. To me FF14 on PC looks good enough. Still I have kind of abandoned the series after 15 but I still rely on Dragon Quest to give me the kind of RPG I literally grew up with.

Just a different time and different way of making them compared to now.
 
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I'd like a final fantasy more often then we are getting especially a mainline one but not at the cost of looking like a ps2 game. What team is most likely on ff16?
 
EricKillMongerz said:
No PS2 graphics in 2020 is unacceptable lol
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vaibhavpisal said:
Is it possible to have PS2 graphics these days? Even pixel art at 1080p looks super clean and good looking.

I am playing bravely default right now. Definitely games like these would be most welcome.
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Mobile phones exist and some games are even lucky to look as good as the average PS2.

In fact, the higher resolution doesn't actually change the budget that goes into these projects.
 
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if it means old gameplay too it would be even better.
I far prefer the oldschool ATB to all modern not turn based attempts they made of it.
 
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I think a lot of PS2 era games still hold up really well visually, so I'd totally be cool with that. A strong art style goes a long way.

Edit: As an aside, I've actually been binging heavily on FFIX and FFXII the last couple weeks.
 
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vaibhavpisal said:
Is it possible to have PS2 graphics these days?
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Xan-Stylo said:
I'd like a final fantasy more often then we are getting especially a mainline one but not at the cost of looking like a ps2 game.
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Graphics-wise, I meant more on the level of the PS2 remasters (FFX and FFXII), but the thread title was already too long.

Realistically, I'd bet they could hit somewhere between PS2 and PS3 level graphics (and 4K+ resolution of course), and still get releases out every 2 years. I was trying to think of ways to cut down on dev times, and I'm guessing the visuals are probably the biggest time sink. So, faster textures, faster modeling, faster animation, etc.
 
I mean they released ff7 remake after 5 years and it has a shitload of ps2 or worst texture everywhere except for 1-2 chapters so if they release the other part every 2 years i expect gameboy graphics to be honest.
 
No.
They say I should buy new console for new experiences. If they want to release a PS2 game, give me my PS2 and my money back.
 
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No. It worked for trials of mana, but if you think it'll work for final fantasy, you miss the point of the series. The series has evolved into an epic cinematic experience, it's no longer the traditional turned based rpg that most people "think" final fantasy is, that was in the past. Square Enix since split that genre and moved it to other ip's such as bravely default or octopath traveler, but final fantasy has become the company main AAA ip, so they're treating it as such with high budget production values and take as long as they need to make it an epic cinematic experience.
 
UnNamed said:
No.
They say I should buy new console for new experiences. If they want to release a PS2 game, give me my PS2 and my money back.
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If you're talking about graphics then sure. But in terms of actual gameplay risk, then I would argue the PS2 has more.
 
If my massive enjoyment of the Switch has taught me anything, it's that graphics are probably my least inportant consideration for what makes a great game.

PS2 era graphics at 720p-4K resolutions would do me for pretty much everything I think, so yeah.
 
sid2vicious said:
The series has evolved into an epic cinematic experience, it's no longer the traditional turned based rpg that most people "think" final fantasy is, that was in the past.
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Sure, but the series also isn't the critical darling it once was, FFVIIR aside (a remake of a golden-era FF game--the irony, haha). The other offline FFs released in the last 10 years, XIII and XV, have tons of detractors. So I think a lot of people are wondering if the long dev times were worth it, in general.

Also, in this hypothetical setup, the gameplay doesn't have to be stuck in the past, just the graphics.
 
Final Fantasy XII was the first time when I thought graphics had come far enough. Hit the asset quality of FF12 HD and focus on lighting, density, physics, system depth, scale, etc.
 
This wouldn't make much sense, it's not "easier" to make ps2 graphics, it's possibly even the opposite.

I'm for example doing modding for ps2 era tony hawk games, creating levels etc, and it's extremely tedious to work with old engines, ton of limitations, you have to go through a lot of different tricks to simulate some effects, you will sometimes spend days trying to make something that would just take 5 minutes or less in a modern engine because everything now is much more convenient and evolved.

It wouldn't be faster for them to make new games with graphics like FF 12. Even if they tried to replicate that in a modern engine in a more easy way, it would look different and wouldn't really save time, because they could make better looking things with the same amount of time / work, so it would be really just out of principle if you decided to make something that looks like ps2, and not for saving ressources.

I see people comparing that to games like Trials of Mana, but it's really not the same thing, Trials of Mana in my opinion looks really bad, it looks cheap, lacks artistic direction, feels like a mobile game. Games like Kingdom Hearts or ps2 Final Fantasy look a lot better than this, because they were high budget games back then with a lot of work and effort put into them, trials of mana is just a very cheap attempt with modern technology and the result is really not the same.
 
Seeing as how much people enjoy Trials of Mana, Xenoblade and Dragon Quest, I don't think cutting edge graphics are a necessity for a fun memorable game.
 
Larxia said:
Even if they tried to replicate that in a modern engine in a more easy way, it would look different and wouldn't really save time, because they could make better looking things with the same amount of time / work
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Pretty much what I meant, and I mentioned this in the main post. I should've given the thread title more thought. Basically, the hypothetical is: SE has 2 years to release each new mainline FF. Where do they cut corners and still put out a solid game? Most likely it'll be the graphics, even though the games would end up looking a lot better than OG PS2 games.
 
FF has gone to shit as it is, I can't imagine how bad it'd be if they cranked them out every couple years.... and then having ps2 graphics on top of it, holy shit it would be bad. Unplayable.
 
sid2vicious said:
No. It worked for trials of mana, but if you think it'll work for final fantasy, you miss the point of the series. The series has evolved into an epic cinematic experience, it's no longer the traditional turned based rpg that most people "think" final fantasy is, that was in the past. Square Enix since split that genre and moved it to other ip's such as bravely default or octopath traveler, but final fantasy has become the company main AAA ip, so they're treating it as such with high budget production values and take as long as they need to make it an epic cinematic experience.
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Oh come on. The Trials of Mana remake is hardly cutting edge, but its miles ahead of PS2 graphics. At least on PC anyway.
 
Larxia said:
This wouldn't make much sense, it's not "easier" to make ps2 graphics, it's possibly even the opposite.

I'm for example doing modding for ps2 era tony hawk games, creating levels etc, and it's extremely tedious to work with old engines, ton of limitations, you have to go through a lot of different tricks to simulate some effects, you will sometimes spend days trying to make something that would just take 5 minutes or less in a modern engine because everything now is much more convenient and evolved.
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This is the crux of it.

If someone wanted to make a modern PS2 game, it's less efficient to actually use the old tools behind it. But with modern ones, it's easy.
Modern games are more complex just by the nature a single character has more detail than an entire environment from 20 years ago. I would never imagine for example, that the Crash demo in Uncharted 4 was harder to make than the actual game itself.

 
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brohmbel said:
Sure, but the series also isn't the critical darling it once was, FFVIIR aside (a remake of a golden-era FF game--the irony, haha). The other offline FFs released in the last 10 years, XIII and XV, have tons of detractors. So I think a lot of people are wondering if the long dev times were worth it, in general.

Also, in this hypothetical setup, the gameplay doesn't have to be stuck in the past, just the graphics.
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Still no. I wouldn't sacrifice graphics to get a game sooner. I admit the golden age was PS1 era, PS2 era was when the series were taking a turn for the worse, however that has nothing to do with graphics, and more to do with story telling. Prior to PS1 was also very subpar, what differentiate them from all the rpg maker games out there? Besides being the pioneer of their genre of the time, nothing really. I've played some rpg maker games one could argue are better than final fantasy, but that's neither here nor there. The bottom line is you shouldn't need to sacrifice graphics for gameplay. Imagine GTA6 with GTA2 graphics, do you think reception would be the same?
 
I really need decent looking graphics these days.
I played Onechanbara Z2 Chaos recently and though I really liked the game, the low poly models and low quality textures are as bad as I would tolerate. Luckily the superior character design and combat engine were able to compensate for the PS2 grade visuals.
 
TLZ said:
What kind of question is this?
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He thinks modern FFs take too long and are not good because they waste too much time on graphics to worry about the rest.
That's like arguing if you ditch CGI Star Wars story and characters will stop sucking.
 
Stuart360 said:
Oh come on. The Trials of Mana remake is hardly cutting edge, but its miles ahead of PS2 graphics. At least on PC anyway.
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I own Trials of Mana on PC and love it fyi, but miles ahead? I wouldn't stretch it that far, it's close. Here's some gameplay of Dawn of Mana for the PS2, keep in mind the video quality is not very good.



Obviously Trials of Mana looks and plays better, but graphically speaking they're very close.
 
brohmbel said:
Graphics-wise, I meant more on the level of the PS2 remasters (FFX and FFXII), but the thread title was already too long.

Realistically, I'd bet they could hit somewhere between PS2 and PS3 level graphics (and 4K+ resolution of course), and still get releases out every 2 years. I was trying to think of ways to cut down on dev times, and I'm guessing the visuals are probably the biggest time sink. So, faster textures, faster modeling, faster animation, etc.
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This is misunderstanding what Final Fantasy is about. It's supposed to be a premiere title that pushes boundaries and that includes visual fidelity, you'd destroy the brand and turn it into a niche product. I'd love to play a new FF every 2 years, but you don't need to downgrade to PS2-3 level era in assets, Square just needs to improve and streamline their production process, like EA and Ubisoft do.
 
Nope. Part of the appeal of the series is how it always pushes technical limits of the console its on. FFVII, VIII, and IX were really maxing the ps1; FFX and XII were amazing on PS2; FFXIII while still nice was a bit of an outlier; but FF XIV, XV, and VIIR really put the PS4 through its paces and look stunning. Part of the fun of these games is what kind of tech they're going to push. I'm really excited to see VIIR Part 2 and XVI on the PS5.
 
I would prefer 2d sprites or cell shaded anime style anyway.

But do you really think scaling back the graphics would increase the quality of the games?
 
FF every 2 years is tempting but FF main releases are really special like nothing else. Even a game like XV with lots of problems still felt innovative.
 
Sounds kinda like what happened on the DS and PSP. While the big Squeenix studios were slowly squeezing out FF13, the smaller teams were releasing a ton of FF games on the handhelds (mostly spinoffs and remakes, to be fair) every year.

I wouldn't mind that, personally. 🤷‍♀️
 
sid2vicious said:
I own Trials of Mana on PC and love it fyi, but miles ahead? I wouldn't stretch it that far, it's close. Here's some gameplay of Dawn of Mana for the PS2, keep in mind the video quality is not very good.



Obviously Trials of Mana looks and plays better, but graphically speaking they're very close.
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It's more that in these type of stylized graphics the technical differences are harder to notice for the general public.
 
I know talking about this is a lost cause, because Square themselves are a lost cause...

But they should go back to pre-rendered backgrounds. And for the battle screens, they don't even need to be ultra realistic looking 3D models. They should make it fantasy, a bit simpler, yet still very very detailed. Simple, a bit comic-y, but super detail rich PS1 Final Fantasy 7 stlye graphics. Like a painting, where you like to look at it for a bit longer.
 
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Square just lacks balls these days to make games that are a unique vision each time like they used to

Probably because they are all old bastards now
 
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Also, they should take a note from Enix and how they are handling Dragon Quest. Drangon Quest, both gameplay-wise and visually is such a great continuation of the franchise and its core design principles.

Square has moved WAAAAAY to far away from their own Final Fantasy core design priciples that made Final Fantasy 1 to 10 so great. Especially FFXV and Final Fantasy 7 Remake.

I hate to say it, but Square is so fucking dumb. FFXV and FF7R are fundamentally different games. They could strip away the Final Fantasy design elements, use some other design elements and sell these games to the same audience - namely, people who like character action games. The "Final Fantasy" design is not needed.

At the same time they could make TRUE Final Fantasy successors and choose a system like the Nintendo Switch, where the hardware is weaker, but still powerfull enough to make great looking oldskool JRPGs (like Dragon Quest XI). On such a system, the audience doesn't expect ultra realistic The Order 1866 style graphics. Quite the opposite. People are happy with more fantasy-like graphics that are still beautiful and detailed, but not as complicated and costly to produce.

This way Square could actually start and finish a true masterpiece-level oldskool Final Fantasy successor within 2 to 4 years and still sell like 10+ millions.

However, I don't have confidence in Square these days. They lost too much talent probably and lost their ability to actually produce masterpiece-level games.
 
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I think FF as a series needs to start trying new things.
Sure the aaa cinematic stuff draws in the crowds but they need to start doing more complex rpgs as well for the hardcore.
 
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